Age 35 Isn’t a Fertility Cliff. Why Do We Think It Is? - Millennial Women Meet The Wall



Ask a woman of reproductive age when her fertility becomes an issue, and she will likely answer: 35. As an OB-GYN in private practice, I see patients who are, for the most part, either pregnant or in some orbit thereof—trying to get pregnant, having trouble getting pregnant, actively trying to prevent pregnancy—and they seem to think there is a threshold midway through one’s 30s that matters very, very much. This may partially result from the fact that women on average are having their first child later in life, so they’re more aware of fertility declining with age. And now, thanks to COVID-19, single and partnered women alike are grappling with delay and uncertainty about whatever timelines they previously held.


Being 35 or older is labeled by the medical community as “advanced maternal age.” In diagnosis code speak, these patients are “elderly,” or in some parts of the world, “geriatric.” In addition to being offensive to most, these terms—so jarringly at odds with what is otherwise considered a young age—instill a sense that one’s reproductive identity is predominantly negative as soon as one reaches age 35. But the number 35 itself, not to mention the conclusions we draw from it, has spun out of our collective control.


Where exactly did the focus on 35 come from? The number was derived decades ago, during a very different reproductive era. Birth control options were limited. Most first pregnancies occurred in women’s 20s. In vitro fertilization was in its infancy.


Most people assume we use age 35 because studies show that things get worse for women at that point. Indeed, early population studies do demonstrate that certain risks, namely the risks of infertility, miscarriage, and chromosomal abnormalities, increase more significantly at age 35. (To be clear, these risks are age-dependent and increase steadily with age generally, but at some point their rate of increase increases, and that inflection point has been pinpointed by some studies at age 35.)


The bigger problem is that the real origin of the number 35 comes from a very specific—and essentially outdated—line of clinical reasoning.

But using age 35 in this way is not as clear cut as it seems. One problem is that it’s an incredibly subjective way of defining what should be objective. The age-related risks of these issues are derived from several large studies, and to look at the tables or graphs of the reported risks is a bit like being administered a Rorschach test: Some will see worrisome numbers starting at age 35, some at 40, some maybe even at younger ages. Moreover, comparing these studies is complicated by their design. For example, when looking at studies regarding Down syndrome risk, some report risk as a function of all live births, while others report it based on amniocentesis results; the amnio risk will appear higher, since some subset of the abnormal pregnancies will miscarry or be electively terminated before the end of the pregnancy could be reached. Put more simply, if you were to ask a dozen professionals to interpret the data and pick one age cutoff whereby to distinguish low-risk from high-risk women, you may very well get a dozen different answers.


The bigger problem is that the real origin of the number 35 comes from a very specific—and essentially outdated—line of clinical reasoning. It was borne out of the desire to counsel women clearly on their options regarding testing for aneuploidy (an abnormal number of chromosomes in the fetus). In the mid-’70s, the only option for genetic testing during a pregnancy was amniocentesis, an invasive procedure in which a needle is placed through the mother’s abdomen in order to sample amniotic fluid containing shed fetal skin cells. Doctors struggled with how to tell women whether it was worth it to have one, whether the benefit outweighed the risk. In the case of an amnio, the benefit is knowledge in advance of birth, but since it is an invasive procedure, there is a risk of losing the pregnancy as a result of the amnio. Taking into account the known procedure-related risk rate at the time (1 in 200 chance of miscarriage) and the likelihood of a genetic abnormality (specifically Down syndrome) based on a woman’s age, the numbers seemed to come out in favor of an amnio—that is, the likelihood of Down syndrome was higher than the risk of procedure-related pregnancy loss—around age 35.


But as I said, even this calculation is outdated. With increased experience since those foundational studies, the risks of having an amniocentesis are lower, which calls into question that calculation; if you were to rerun that risk-benefit calculation by comparing today’s quoted risk (around 1 in 500) to the age-related risk of Down syndrome, we would define advanced maternal age as 32.5 years—younger than before. Additionally, the high detection rate of noninvasive screening methods, particularly cell-free DNA testing, means women are more commonly seeking amnio (or a related earlier procedure, chorionic villus sampling) as a follow-up to an abnormal screening test, further complicating the effort to define advanced maternal age based on the risk of any testing options. Finally, different patients perceive risk, benefit, and necessity in different ways, which means some women that the medical community labels “low-risk” would pursue an amnio, while some “high-risk” women would not.


For all the above reasons, the definition of age 35 has gone from arbitrary and rigid in its beginning to essentially obsolete. Yet, in the interim, it has become codified, largely out of convenience, as being reflective of the changing risk of all reproductive issues, not simply the chance of Down syndrome. Knowing what we know now, it would be best if we could go back in time and reframe the conversation, hopefully doing away with a single age cutoff that drives our perception of reproductive risk. But as things stand, age 35 has stuck in our minds, mostly for the worse.


The 35-year-old threshold is not only known by patients, it is embraced by doctors as a tool that guides the care of their patients. It’s used bimodally: If you’re under 35, you’re fine; if you’re 35 or older, you have a new host of problems. This interpretation treats the issue at hand as what is known as a “threshold effect.” Cross the threshold of age 35, it implies, and the intrinsic nature of a woman’s body has changed; she falls off a cliff from one category into another. (Indeed, many of my patients speak of crossing age 35 as exactly this kind of fall, with their fertility “plummeting” suddenly.) As I’ve already stated, though, the age-related concerns are gradual and exist along a continuum. Even if the rate of those risks accelerates at a certain point, it’s still not a quantum leap from one risk category to another.


The dread of age 35 is so pervasive that its effect bleeds backward in time to women in their early 30s—and yes, sometimes even in their late 20s.

This issue comes up frequently in science and medicine. In order to categorize things that fall along a continuum, things that nature itself doesn’t necessarily distinguish as being separable into discrete groups, we have to create cutoffs. Those work very well when comparing large groups of patients, because that’s what the studies were designed to do, but to apply those to individual patients is more difficult. To a degree, they can be useful. For example, when we are operating far from those cutoffs—counseling a 25-year-old versus a 45-year-old—the conclusions to draw from that cutoff are more applicable. But operate close to it—counseling a 34-year-old trying to imagine her future 36-year-old self—and the distinction is so subtle as to be almost superfluous.


Still, age-related fertility decline is one of the main topics of conversation I have with my patients. The dread of age 35 is so pervasive that its effect bleeds backward in time, with women in their early 30s—and yes, sometimes even in their late 20s—already feeling as if they are behind in the race against their “biological clock.” Doctors have an obligation to put this to an end. While it is true that there exists a relative decline in fertility over time, the truth is that, in absolute terms, women 35 and over are still very likely to conceive without difficulty, and at about the same rate as women under 35. Although strong data on this subject are hard to come by, because studies like this are hard to design and execute for numerous reasons, one of the largest studies found that 78 percent of women aged 35 to 40 will conceive within a year, compared with 84 percent of women aged 20 to 34. That is a small difference, especially compared with how one’s fertility decline is so commonly perceived. Other studies are similarly reassuring. And while there are exceptions to every rule—there are some women who will experience difficulty conceiving at an earlier age than otherwise expected—it’s important to emphasize that the rule is less bleak than most people think. The message doctors should be giving their patients is: You are more likely than not to get pregnant of your own efforts, and with about the same success as when you were younger.


A similar failure of threshold effect thinking is how obstetricians treat pregnant patients of “advanced maternal age.” In many settings, patients 35 and older are automatically consigned to extra testing and treatment: low-dose aspirin to prevent preeclampsia, extra ultrasounds, extra testing of their baby’s well-being as they approach their due date. This approach treats age 35 as more different from age 34 than age 40 is from 35. Aside from being simplistic, this monolithic thinking creates stress and a stigma—it’s almost automatic that my patients age 35 and above ask if their age makes them “high-risk”—unnecessary for women to feel. It also creates a very real risk of changing the course of a pregnancy based on the results of extra tests—what is known as a “care cascade,” a domino effect of each test prompting another new test or treatment—in ways that are not always necessary and can sometimes be harmful. Consider, for example, a patient who has an early 16-week fetal anatomy ultrasound (in addition to the standard 20-week one). If that ultrasound shows a possible abnormality, it could really be something abnormal, or it could be an artifact of doing the scan so early and would clear up by the time of the 20-week scan. But, in the interim, in order to rule out any genetic abnormalities, the patient might be offered an amniocentesis, which runs the risk of causing a miscarriage. These extra risks are why, instead of reflexive thinking based on age, obstetricians should be thinking about all of the factors that influence the health of a patient’s pregnancy and choosing what is right for their patient.


I have three suggestions of how to combat this phenomenon. First, do no harm. We physicians often forget about psychological harm. Thanks to the messaging out in the world—from friends and family, the media, and, yes, the medical community—women are more likely to approach the issues associated with being over age 35 with trepidation rather than confidence. Recognizing that an increasing proportion of women will be approaching or have reached age 35 when they start trying to conceive for the first time—by one measure, this proportion has increased 23 percent since the year 2000—we should be trying to normalize what up until now had been considered a marginal experience. Especially now, in circumstances as extreme and uncontrollable as the COVID-19 epidemic—and all the social, romantic, and reproductive disruptions it entails—we should be pushing back on what creates undue stress for our patients. We should be focusing more thoughtfully on which parts of the 35-year cutoff matter, and how much so, while emphasizing the honest good news about age-related reproductive issues.

Second, we should be more flexible in our thinking. While I’m not one for rebranding just for appearance’s sake, the term “advancing reproductive age” is probably more useful than “advanced maternal age,” because it reminds us that this is a continuum, not a threshold. When my patient who is 34 and healthy and had an uncomplicated first pregnancy worries about being over 35 with her second pregnancy, I reassure her that changes are likely to be minimal and that the most important thing is the confidence she should have based on her first pregnancy.


Third, we must treat the patient, not a number. The number is meant for populations, and even at that, we should not be monolithic in our decisions of how we provide care. Not all 33-year-old women wondering about their fertility prospects are the same. Neither are all 38-year-old women on their first pregnancy. Patients deserve—and appreciate—individualized care. Such care will treat age as one of many factors that matter, but by no means the only, or most important, one.
 
There's so many variables when you consider genetics, because you can still have the odds in your favor and get the worst rolls. Like by all odds Baron Trump should be a social media catastrophe and an embarrassment to his parents, but that hasn't happened.

Genetics plus tradeoffs. Older parents are better at parenting and usually have good deal of life experience to pass on, which counts more than IQ (due to actual studies) Better financial situation, better nutrition (in this world of crap food) also play role. It's all trade offs.

If first worlders are not willing to have kids before 35 we can import plenty of 3rd worlder tards who will.
 
Bullshit! Sperm also gets older. Older sperm means a higher risk for offspring with autism, schizophrenia and other negative stuff.


Have fun fathering tards/lolcows.
Sperm ages, yes, but the risks for older men aren't as great as they are for older women. Plus, men never run out of sperm, so an older man in good health can still father reasonably normal kids while women eventually run out of eggs and have a higher chance of producing autistic spergs even while they still have said eggs the older they get. That said, this whole problem isn't really solvable(until and unless we figure out genetic engineering that is) while we have a society and culture that encourages people to put off having kids until they're in their 30s for various reasons.
 
Assuming that you're still able to successfully have children after 35, I'd worry less about having a child so much as I'd worry about having a BOY, as boys are generally more susceptible to autism than girls. Even if the girl has it, it's usually much more muted and they could live a pretty normal, functional life with good parenting.
Yeah the article should have focused more on this sort of shit but I know why it didnt.

I dont think people are worried about "advanced maternal age" because of their physical health necessarily anymore, we have medical technology advanced enough that it's not as big of a deal as it used to be even if it's still a concern--people are worried about how the kid is gonna turn out.

One other thing though is that society is set up that by 35 you should be pretty much decided if youre in or youre out on kids. Because if youre having a kid in your 40s, even early 40s, yorue gonna be around 60 something when theyre going through their rebellious teenage years. I think by that age people are looking more at retirement and not wanting to deal with raising a kid.
This is sort of bullshit. The only reason that 'boys are generally more susceptible' isn't because they actually are, it's because of the diagnostic criteria that previously saw only boys getting diagnosed.
Well they're still kind of right, they say men are more susceptible to genetic shit like that due to lack of a second X chromosome, so the point still kinda stands.
 
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Bullshit! Sperm also gets older. Older sperm means a higher risk for offspring with autism, schizophrenia and other negative stuff.
those studies are deeply flawed, they dont consider if a man had children before or if its his first.

One other thing though is that society is set up that by 35 you should be pretty much decided if youre in or youre out on kids. Because if youre having a kid in your 40s, even early 40s, yorue gonna be around 60 something when theyre going through their rebellious teenage years. I think by that age people are looking more at retirement and not wanting to deal with raising a kid.
well having your last child in your mid 30s was pretty normal for along time. my greatgrandma had her 8th and last child with 36. my grandma had her 6th and last child at 35 and my mother had her 4th and last child at 34. its so common that we even have a word for a last child that was born a couple of years after the others.
 
Get fucked Millenials, we don't need you soyboys trying to raise children on Atheism, Joss Whedon and Consoomer cringe.
Let the younger generation that wasn't coddled by a pre2008 financial crisis world do it's job.
You guys are too busy butt fucking each other on tik tok and fortnight to meet a member of the opposite sex.
 
The choice is yours - raise a kid in your 20's and hope you can scrape enough money together to keep them clothed and fed, or wait until you're in a better position and end up either infertile or with your very own human-potato hybrid.

Get fucked Millenials, we don't need you soyboys trying to raise children on Atheism, Joss Whedon and Consoomer cringe.
Let the younger generation that wasn't coddled by a pre2008 financial crisis world do it's job.
I wouldn't trust the average zoomer to look after a goldfish, let alone a baby. They'd probably try to feed the poor thing tide pods, either out of sheer incompetency or to try and harvest instagram clout.
 
You're just jelous that you're too old to join the Tidepod sex parties. Dab on boomers
Real talk I'm glad I settled down when I did, couldn't imagine trying to find an adult these days. So many people in arrested development, careerists, and social media havers. Can you still insult women as a pick up?
 
Women over 26 - want someday.png

Women over 25.
 
it is really difficult for most people to grow up all the way without having their own kids. Missing out on the fertility window will make for a bunch of permanent children.

Chicken or the egg?

Is the fact we encourage people to stay "kids" well into their 30's with devotion to cartoons and video games and quasi-responsiblity where nothing has real consequence (I'm entitled to go to college, but I don't see why I should pay the bill) the reason they don't want kids? (Ewwwww, that's an ADULT thing)

Or is feminist/progressive demonizing the concept of having a kid causing people to become middle-age teenagers because removing the ultimate adult responsibility is causing people to stall out without a clear reason to live for a couple decades after they're 25? (If I can only have a kid after I've already had a career, what fills the spare time right now except endless partying?)

Answers on a postcard.
 
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Seriously. If you're going to have children at all, do it before you're 24. That way they can function by themselves by the time or before you're forty. Do you want to enjoy your younger years and be fucking exhausted when you're middle aged? All the time?

Having children is scary, very scary, but is infinitely easier to cope with when you're young.

The problem with this is that everyone under 25 is an idiot.

Humans are so poorly designed.

It is never affordable to have kids. Not at any point in your lifetime. You just have to struggle and make ends meet regardless.

Depends on what shithole country you live in.

This is sort of bullshit. The only reason that 'boys are generally more susceptible' isn't because they actually are, it's because of the diagnostic criteria that previously saw only boys getting diagnosed.

You always have to remember that psychology is based on male diagnostic criteria, females were thought to only be 'emotional and hysterical', nothing they brought to the table about themselves were to be considered with serious thought.

There are many more females being diagnosed with ASD and ADHD than ever before, and if you think about it, when they start spouting the 'more kids on drugs than ever before', 'kids getting diagnosed has doubled', when 50% of the population is female, and besides the extreme cases were never diagnosed, it makes sense that 'suddenly' there is a upswing in diagnosis, now that female conditioning and diagnosis is actually taken seriously, and living with the impacts of these disorders is seen as detrimental to female lives.

You're totally right. There's also the fact that, with ASD, more kids are diagnosed on the higher-functioning end because there is a LOT more stimulus around them from the very beginning, especially kids who live in cities. If you have a mild sensory processing issue, maybe 50 or 60 years ago it was a mild annoyance, and you came off as a little strange. Our lifestyles are vastly different now, with several devices for each person, and generally "louder" everything-- more advertisements in public, more multi-tasking at jobs. You can't even go to the bank or a restaurant without there being several TV screens playing. And more sugar and soy in everything, too, though I don't know if that exacerbates ASD symptoms in kids or not. I wouldn't be surprised, sugar definitely makes ADHD worse.
 
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Chicken or the egg?

Is the fact we encourage people to stay "kids" well into their 30's with devotion to cartoons and video games and quasi-responsiblity where nothing has real consequence (I'm entitled to go to college, but I don't see why I should pay the bill) the reason they don't want kids? (That's an ADULT thing) Or is feminist/progressive demonizing the concept of having a kid causing people to become middle-age teenagers because removing the ultimate adult responsibility causing people to stall out without a clear reason to live for a couple decades? (If I can only have a kid after my career, what fills the spare time right now except endless partying?)

Answers on a postcard.
Younger people have a lot less sex than they used to, there is an insanely easy alternative. It is mostly men who are abstaining in favor of pornography (or using sex workers over the internet or in person), so that reduces the number of available males. The data is pretty clear on what happens when you make fewer men available, they simply refuse to settle down with any one woman, and this is much more of a problem when it is so easy to hook up through apps. Men used to be more limited by competition and social access to potential mates. Women who want kids have very little chance of keeping the attention of the kind of guy they would be comfortable getting pregnant with. There are fewer accidental pregnancies as well now too, which is a good thing, and probably also due to the influence of the internet providing sex education to anyone who wants it.
 
Why do these people never think about adoption? I have shitty genes I don't want to pass on and am not looking forward to destroying my body, but I always know there was adoption as an option instead. It's almost like these women aren't as progressive as they pretend to be.

Also, late 20s is the best time to have children (safety, financially, and fertility wise). Advising women barely out of their teens to have kids in this climate is the stupidest idea ever.
 
You're totally right. There's also the fact that, with ASD, more kids are diagnosed on the higher-functioning end because there is a LOT more stimulus around them from the very beginning, especially kids who live in cities. If you have a mild sensory processing issue, maybe 50 or 60 years ago it was a mild annoyance, and you came off as a little strange. Our lifestyles are vastly different now, with several devices for each person, and generally "louder" everything-- more advertisements in public, more multi-tasking at jobs. You can't even go to the bank or a restaurant without there being several TV screens playing. And more sugar and soy in everything, too, though I don't know if that exacerbates ASD symptoms in kids or not. I wouldn't be surprised, sugar definitely makes ADHD worse.
Another thing to remember is that these higher functioning autists would have been sent to join the clergy, which was not just rigid intellectually but also had very strict demands on menial labor on tight schedules. You had your list of chores, you said your prayers, you held mass; once you were used to the schedule it was extremely comfortable and secure. But now people expect their local pastor to be some sort of political activist mixed with a pop star. So the autist gets kicked once again.
 
several TV screens

I know this was in reference to t.v. screens showing menu items but on the topic of tv and early development I've been wondering about this one and autism. Does the constant focusing in on faces and exaggerated expressions fuck up people's ability to pick up subtle nuances and emotions in real life because tv has them trained to only see the most obvious of expressions?
 
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