Age 35 Isn’t a Fertility Cliff. Why Do We Think It Is? - Millennial Women Meet The Wall



Ask a woman of reproductive age when her fertility becomes an issue, and she will likely answer: 35. As an OB-GYN in private practice, I see patients who are, for the most part, either pregnant or in some orbit thereof—trying to get pregnant, having trouble getting pregnant, actively trying to prevent pregnancy—and they seem to think there is a threshold midway through one’s 30s that matters very, very much. This may partially result from the fact that women on average are having their first child later in life, so they’re more aware of fertility declining with age. And now, thanks to COVID-19, single and partnered women alike are grappling with delay and uncertainty about whatever timelines they previously held.


Being 35 or older is labeled by the medical community as “advanced maternal age.” In diagnosis code speak, these patients are “elderly,” or in some parts of the world, “geriatric.” In addition to being offensive to most, these terms—so jarringly at odds with what is otherwise considered a young age—instill a sense that one’s reproductive identity is predominantly negative as soon as one reaches age 35. But the number 35 itself, not to mention the conclusions we draw from it, has spun out of our collective control.


Where exactly did the focus on 35 come from? The number was derived decades ago, during a very different reproductive era. Birth control options were limited. Most first pregnancies occurred in women’s 20s. In vitro fertilization was in its infancy.


Most people assume we use age 35 because studies show that things get worse for women at that point. Indeed, early population studies do demonstrate that certain risks, namely the risks of infertility, miscarriage, and chromosomal abnormalities, increase more significantly at age 35. (To be clear, these risks are age-dependent and increase steadily with age generally, but at some point their rate of increase increases, and that inflection point has been pinpointed by some studies at age 35.)


The bigger problem is that the real origin of the number 35 comes from a very specific—and essentially outdated—line of clinical reasoning.

But using age 35 in this way is not as clear cut as it seems. One problem is that it’s an incredibly subjective way of defining what should be objective. The age-related risks of these issues are derived from several large studies, and to look at the tables or graphs of the reported risks is a bit like being administered a Rorschach test: Some will see worrisome numbers starting at age 35, some at 40, some maybe even at younger ages. Moreover, comparing these studies is complicated by their design. For example, when looking at studies regarding Down syndrome risk, some report risk as a function of all live births, while others report it based on amniocentesis results; the amnio risk will appear higher, since some subset of the abnormal pregnancies will miscarry or be electively terminated before the end of the pregnancy could be reached. Put more simply, if you were to ask a dozen professionals to interpret the data and pick one age cutoff whereby to distinguish low-risk from high-risk women, you may very well get a dozen different answers.


The bigger problem is that the real origin of the number 35 comes from a very specific—and essentially outdated—line of clinical reasoning. It was borne out of the desire to counsel women clearly on their options regarding testing for aneuploidy (an abnormal number of chromosomes in the fetus). In the mid-’70s, the only option for genetic testing during a pregnancy was amniocentesis, an invasive procedure in which a needle is placed through the mother’s abdomen in order to sample amniotic fluid containing shed fetal skin cells. Doctors struggled with how to tell women whether it was worth it to have one, whether the benefit outweighed the risk. In the case of an amnio, the benefit is knowledge in advance of birth, but since it is an invasive procedure, there is a risk of losing the pregnancy as a result of the amnio. Taking into account the known procedure-related risk rate at the time (1 in 200 chance of miscarriage) and the likelihood of a genetic abnormality (specifically Down syndrome) based on a woman’s age, the numbers seemed to come out in favor of an amnio—that is, the likelihood of Down syndrome was higher than the risk of procedure-related pregnancy loss—around age 35.


But as I said, even this calculation is outdated. With increased experience since those foundational studies, the risks of having an amniocentesis are lower, which calls into question that calculation; if you were to rerun that risk-benefit calculation by comparing today’s quoted risk (around 1 in 500) to the age-related risk of Down syndrome, we would define advanced maternal age as 32.5 years—younger than before. Additionally, the high detection rate of noninvasive screening methods, particularly cell-free DNA testing, means women are more commonly seeking amnio (or a related earlier procedure, chorionic villus sampling) as a follow-up to an abnormal screening test, further complicating the effort to define advanced maternal age based on the risk of any testing options. Finally, different patients perceive risk, benefit, and necessity in different ways, which means some women that the medical community labels “low-risk” would pursue an amnio, while some “high-risk” women would not.


For all the above reasons, the definition of age 35 has gone from arbitrary and rigid in its beginning to essentially obsolete. Yet, in the interim, it has become codified, largely out of convenience, as being reflective of the changing risk of all reproductive issues, not simply the chance of Down syndrome. Knowing what we know now, it would be best if we could go back in time and reframe the conversation, hopefully doing away with a single age cutoff that drives our perception of reproductive risk. But as things stand, age 35 has stuck in our minds, mostly for the worse.


The 35-year-old threshold is not only known by patients, it is embraced by doctors as a tool that guides the care of their patients. It’s used bimodally: If you’re under 35, you’re fine; if you’re 35 or older, you have a new host of problems. This interpretation treats the issue at hand as what is known as a “threshold effect.” Cross the threshold of age 35, it implies, and the intrinsic nature of a woman’s body has changed; she falls off a cliff from one category into another. (Indeed, many of my patients speak of crossing age 35 as exactly this kind of fall, with their fertility “plummeting” suddenly.) As I’ve already stated, though, the age-related concerns are gradual and exist along a continuum. Even if the rate of those risks accelerates at a certain point, it’s still not a quantum leap from one risk category to another.


The dread of age 35 is so pervasive that its effect bleeds backward in time to women in their early 30s—and yes, sometimes even in their late 20s.

This issue comes up frequently in science and medicine. In order to categorize things that fall along a continuum, things that nature itself doesn’t necessarily distinguish as being separable into discrete groups, we have to create cutoffs. Those work very well when comparing large groups of patients, because that’s what the studies were designed to do, but to apply those to individual patients is more difficult. To a degree, they can be useful. For example, when we are operating far from those cutoffs—counseling a 25-year-old versus a 45-year-old—the conclusions to draw from that cutoff are more applicable. But operate close to it—counseling a 34-year-old trying to imagine her future 36-year-old self—and the distinction is so subtle as to be almost superfluous.


Still, age-related fertility decline is one of the main topics of conversation I have with my patients. The dread of age 35 is so pervasive that its effect bleeds backward in time, with women in their early 30s—and yes, sometimes even in their late 20s—already feeling as if they are behind in the race against their “biological clock.” Doctors have an obligation to put this to an end. While it is true that there exists a relative decline in fertility over time, the truth is that, in absolute terms, women 35 and over are still very likely to conceive without difficulty, and at about the same rate as women under 35. Although strong data on this subject are hard to come by, because studies like this are hard to design and execute for numerous reasons, one of the largest studies found that 78 percent of women aged 35 to 40 will conceive within a year, compared with 84 percent of women aged 20 to 34. That is a small difference, especially compared with how one’s fertility decline is so commonly perceived. Other studies are similarly reassuring. And while there are exceptions to every rule—there are some women who will experience difficulty conceiving at an earlier age than otherwise expected—it’s important to emphasize that the rule is less bleak than most people think. The message doctors should be giving their patients is: You are more likely than not to get pregnant of your own efforts, and with about the same success as when you were younger.


A similar failure of threshold effect thinking is how obstetricians treat pregnant patients of “advanced maternal age.” In many settings, patients 35 and older are automatically consigned to extra testing and treatment: low-dose aspirin to prevent preeclampsia, extra ultrasounds, extra testing of their baby’s well-being as they approach their due date. This approach treats age 35 as more different from age 34 than age 40 is from 35. Aside from being simplistic, this monolithic thinking creates stress and a stigma—it’s almost automatic that my patients age 35 and above ask if their age makes them “high-risk”—unnecessary for women to feel. It also creates a very real risk of changing the course of a pregnancy based on the results of extra tests—what is known as a “care cascade,” a domino effect of each test prompting another new test or treatment—in ways that are not always necessary and can sometimes be harmful. Consider, for example, a patient who has an early 16-week fetal anatomy ultrasound (in addition to the standard 20-week one). If that ultrasound shows a possible abnormality, it could really be something abnormal, or it could be an artifact of doing the scan so early and would clear up by the time of the 20-week scan. But, in the interim, in order to rule out any genetic abnormalities, the patient might be offered an amniocentesis, which runs the risk of causing a miscarriage. These extra risks are why, instead of reflexive thinking based on age, obstetricians should be thinking about all of the factors that influence the health of a patient’s pregnancy and choosing what is right for their patient.


I have three suggestions of how to combat this phenomenon. First, do no harm. We physicians often forget about psychological harm. Thanks to the messaging out in the world—from friends and family, the media, and, yes, the medical community—women are more likely to approach the issues associated with being over age 35 with trepidation rather than confidence. Recognizing that an increasing proportion of women will be approaching or have reached age 35 when they start trying to conceive for the first time—by one measure, this proportion has increased 23 percent since the year 2000—we should be trying to normalize what up until now had been considered a marginal experience. Especially now, in circumstances as extreme and uncontrollable as the COVID-19 epidemic—and all the social, romantic, and reproductive disruptions it entails—we should be pushing back on what creates undue stress for our patients. We should be focusing more thoughtfully on which parts of the 35-year cutoff matter, and how much so, while emphasizing the honest good news about age-related reproductive issues.

Second, we should be more flexible in our thinking. While I’m not one for rebranding just for appearance’s sake, the term “advancing reproductive age” is probably more useful than “advanced maternal age,” because it reminds us that this is a continuum, not a threshold. When my patient who is 34 and healthy and had an uncomplicated first pregnancy worries about being over 35 with her second pregnancy, I reassure her that changes are likely to be minimal and that the most important thing is the confidence she should have based on her first pregnancy.


Third, we must treat the patient, not a number. The number is meant for populations, and even at that, we should not be monolithic in our decisions of how we provide care. Not all 33-year-old women wondering about their fertility prospects are the same. Neither are all 38-year-old women on their first pregnancy. Patients deserve—and appreciate—individualized care. Such care will treat age as one of many factors that matter, but by no means the only, or most important, one.
 
LMAO at waiting until you’re in your mid 30s. Is it really worth it to bounce on a bunch of cocks and work a soulless $30,000 a year job (let’s be real, very few people statistically make a large salary) to have to end up paying tens of thousands in fertility treatments to pop out Chris chan and Trig Palin?

Go ask any strong independent womyn and her husband who gave birth in their mid 30s and up how hard it was to conceive a child. Be prepared to hear all of the various fertility drugs and treatments they spent. Since fertility drugs increase the likelihood of twins or triplets, be prepared for that. Then you hear how hard it is to give birth. All at the cost of several annual salary’s with, wiping out the money they thought was so important.

Most people from 35 to 45 have seen and heard enough of these stories to know its better to have kids in their 20s. Focus on your family and not your career.
 
The intent of this article has less to do with exploring the past 35 and more of a justification for roasties and career women to decide to have their first child at their mid 30's to settle down and raise a kid. At that point it's not just "I want to have a kid", it's "I need to find a man to settle down with", except a lot of men would be taken up by then. Unless you are a major loser or she's just that rich, the financial success of a woman is not attractive to a man. Between worn out, biologically ancient pussy and a younger female who would raise kids, men will generally go for the latter.
Why?
Because old parents tend to be tired parents which makes them worst at parenting because they don't have the interest or the energy to keep up with their much younger spawn.
Can confirm, even if you duck all the genetic problems with the kid being born to an older mother, this ends up coming into play. Hey, why do you let them get away with doing x, you know it's not good? "Because I am too tired to get into an argument with/discipline my child".
 
One thing they always ignore is the child itself.

Sure, your wine scorched womb could produce a human being. Congrats, so did nips who got nuked.

Even barring any problem with the kid, we'll say it comes out perfectly healthy, there's the one thing all these "Strok Women!" people forget.

Someone has to raise this kid. And your energy levels are NOT the same at 35 as they are at 20 unless you're mainlining meth.

The infant will be stressful enough. Ask any parent and they'll tell you they didn't sleep for the first year. A whole year of getting woken up every couple hours.

Then they start scootching. Hope you got EVERYTHING off the floor, because they will find that quarter you dropped behind the couch 2 years ago and choke on it. Oh, and they'll vomit everywhere and at least once decorate around their bed with feces at nap time, because that's in their contract, Subsection C, right under their right to make you smell slightly of spoiled milk for the next year.

Then they start walking, which means climbing. Hope you don't think putting things above eye level for Shaq is going to matter, because they're going to climb up there. And probably fall asleep. You'll have the fucking Texas Rangers and the Federal Marshalls dragging the bay for a kid that fell asleep on top of the china cabinet.

Oh, don't forget they're going to draw on your TV with crayons the minute you turn around to pick up the remote. What's that? You didn't buy crayons? Good luck figuring out where they got it, sucker.

By five they need much more active attention. You have to take them places, make sure they get more stimulation that sitting on the fucking couch watching TV like your 40 year old ass wants to do.

Oh, and now you have to get involved with school. Meetings, homework, extra credit. You want that kid to excel and move out, right? LOL, no.

Then the teenage years. You're going to be pushing 50. We're talking almost retirement age. Hell, you damn near qualify to die in a Denny's waiting for your Grand Slam breakfast like a 1,000 other old folks do each day.

But your kid? They're 15, and they need you more than ever. Not sitting on the fucking couch. Not posting on Twitter. They need your guidance, they need you to be active in their lives. Take them places and shit.

Oh, and you still have to be involved in school.

So, past 35? Want a kid?

You just volunteered to take on one of the hardest tasks you can undertake when your energy levels, mobility, and everything else is starting a slow slide that YOU CANNOT STOP.

Had that kid at 40? You're 55 when they're in High School.

Had that kid at 45? You're sixty.

But no, just think about you, and how you can successfully carry a fetus to term for 9 fucking months.

Don't pay any attention to the sheer fucking agony you're about to put yourself through.

Meanwhile, those people you made fun of for having kids in their early 20's, maybe even at 18 or 19?

Yeah, you're trying to convince your kid to stop pissing in potted plant at 40.

Their kid went to college and now the friends you mocked are going on trips and shit by themselves while sharing pictures of their grandkids with other people.

But you and your wine soaked womb go on, I guess.

I'll be waiting to pay taxes to support your neglected tard.
 
One thing they always ignore is the child itself.

Sure, your wine scorched womb could produce a human being. Congrats, so did nips who got nuked.

Even barring any problem with the kid, we'll say it comes out perfectly healthy, there's the one thing all these "Strok Women!" people forget.

Someone has to raise this kid. And your energy levels are NOT the same at 35 as they are at 20 unless you're mainlining meth.

The infant will be stressful enough. Ask any parent and they'll tell you they didn't sleep for the first year. A whole year of getting woken up every couple hours.

Then they start scootching. Hope you got EVERYTHING off the floor, because they will find that quarter you dropped behind the couch 2 years ago and choke on it. Oh, and they'll vomit everywhere and at least once decorate around their bed with feces at nap time, because that's in their contract, Subsection C, right under their right to make you smell slightly of spoiled milk for the next year.

Then they start walking, which means climbing. Hope you don't think putting things above eye level for Shaq is going to matter, because they're going to climb up there. And probably fall asleep. You'll have the fucking Texas Rangers and the Federal Marshalls dragging the bay for a kid that fell asleep on top of the china cabinet.

Oh, don't forget they're going to draw on your TV with crayons the minute you turn around to pick up the remote. What's that? You didn't buy crayons? Good luck figuring out where they got it, sucker.

By five they need much more active attention. You have to take them places, make sure they get more stimulation that sitting on the fucking couch watching TV like your 40 year old ass wants to do.

Oh, and now you have to get involved with school. Meetings, homework, extra credit. You want that kid to excel and move out, right? LOL, no.

Then the teenage years. You're going to be pushing 50. We're talking almost retirement age. Hell, you damn near qualify to die in a Denny's waiting for your Grand Slam breakfast like a 1,000 other old folks do each day.

But your kid? They're 15, and they need you more than ever. Not sitting on the fucking couch. Not posting on Twitter. They need your guidance, they need you to be active in their lives. Take them places and shit.

Oh, and you still have to be involved in school.

So, past 35? Want a kid?

You just volunteered to take on one of the hardest tasks you can undertake when your energy levels, mobility, and everything else is starting a slow slide that YOU CANNOT STOP.

Had that kid at 40? You're 55 when they're in High School.

Had that kid at 45? You're sixty.

But no, just think about you, and how you can successfully carry a fetus to term for 9 fucking months.

Don't pay any attention to the sheer fucking agony you're about to put yourself through.

Meanwhile, those people you made fun of for having kids in their early 20's, maybe even at 18 or 19?

Yeah, you're trying to convince your kid to stop pissing in potted plant at 40.

Their kid went to college and now the friends you mocked are going on trips and shit by themselves while sharing pictures of their grandkids with other people.

But you and your wine soaked womb go on, I guess.

I'll be waiting to pay taxes to support your neglected tard.

That’s where the illegal immigrant nanny comes in. Conchita can take care of little Brayden while Brayden’s mommy runs out to hang out with her friend at Starbucks.
 
I dunno these should not be treated as absolutes. I mean I know autistic people who were born when both parents were well under 30 or in their teens.

Well, yes. Autism is incredibly hereditary. I think there was a twin study done on autism at one point where if a boy had autism, his identical twin was autistic at a rate of about 95% or something absurd like that.

I'm not sure how sperm age and maternal age affect autism specifically. But trisomy 21 (Down syndrome) is not hereditary (obviously, given how you see perfectly normal mothers carting them around all the time) but rather the result of a mutation that happens during fertilization. That is something that is much more likely to happen with older parents and it's also much more difficult to raise a child with Down syndrome than a child with high functioning autism (roll of the dice, honestly, a full 30% of autistic people are completely nonverbal. When they call it a spectrum they mean it. I've seen some really awful things).
 
I just assumed 35+ childless women are happy to die alone, surrounded by pug's graves...

Jk, I actually know 1 (ONE) woman who had a kid in her 40's, it was by accident because the father was like, 60 and he already had grandchildren; so she was extra worried about the result and took all the care in the world, and she was lucky enough to have a little certified genius.

On the other hand, I once volunteered at a Down's syndrome center and 99.9% of the mothers were 40+.
So let's say having kids at 35+ is more like a very one-sided bet.
 
The intent of this article has less to do with exploring the past 35 and more of a justification for roasties and career women to decide to have their first child at their mid 30's to settle down and raise a kid. At that point it's not just "I want to have a kid", it's "I need to find a man to settle down with", except a lot of men would be taken up by then. Unless you are a major loser or she's just that rich, the financial success of a woman is not attractive to a man. Between worn out, biologically ancient pussy and a younger female who would raise kids, men will generally go for the latter.

Can confirm, even if you duck all the genetic problems with the kid being born to an older mother, this ends up coming into play. Hey, why do you let them get away with doing x, you know it's not good? "Because I am too tired to get into an argument with/discipline my child".

Also, be aware that by the time the kid is about to graduate high school, you'll be headed for a nursing home, and unable to enjoy fully participating in them growing a family, by the time the grandkids come around, you'll be too tired to play with them. That happened to a childhood friend of mine, who must've been conceived seconds before menopause. By his Junior year, his Dad was in a assisted living home, drugged out of his mind and a non-factor, and his Mom was already having chronic health issues, trouble paying bills and falls at home, while she lived long enough to see her grandkids, she passed before she could see them graduate from high school themselves, let alone college, getting married, etc....

There's a reason you don't try and raise a kid that late if you can help it, they kinda become your caretaker, even if you don't want them to, and he spent the stressful years of young adulthood trying to juggle school, a job, a girlfriend AND being a nurse/financial manager for the house.

Must be why he didn't flinch at joining the Army when he ran out of money his Freshman year of college.... at that point, what would getting shot at really add to the mix?
 
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I have a spin off question, what about the rise rate of coomers and their eventual sexual dysfunction?
I mean as long as they have a padded wallet they are going to have holes to use.
Coomers might mean something specific here I thought it was just anyone who masturbates really.
They have pills when you get old and men can knock somebody up until they die as long as the plumbing flows although the older we get the more fucked up our DNA is and higher risk for abnormalities.
 
Alright I am legitimately annoyed about how every fucking article about some kind of medical advancement or reclassification is not longer written without an insane amount of bitching.
It's no longer: "Hey everybody! I know you have some preconceptions about this subject, but new data suggests it is incorrect. Here is that data."

Now its: "WAHH WAH WAAAAH. How could people be so misinformed about this? How could such dummy dum dums spout off about how wrong they are? Dont they know how evil they are for saying so? WAHH WAHH WAHH. I hope this data reaches you a lesson, you jerks!"

Here I'll sum up this whole piece in one sentence:

Age 35 is often considered to be a universal drop off point in a womans fertility, actual data shows this to be far more circumstantial.

There. Done.
What is with all the medical journos becoming so whiny in particular? It's not isolated to female doctors either as people pointed out, this was written by a dude. I mean, how many times are they going to hammer the fact that generalizations arebt 100% accurate? They're not supposed to be, they're just general overviews.

There's so much pearl clutching and hysteria in modern culture, everything is always framed as a moral "good vs evil" issue.
 
There's so much pearl clutching and hysteria in modern culture, everything is always framed as a moral "good vs evil" issue.

Because they're losing the culture war, and they dont' know how or why, they were assured they were the right side all their lives...
 
Assuming that you're still able to successfully have children after 35, I'd worry less about having a child so much as I'd worry about having a BOY, as boys are generally more susceptible to autism than girls. Even if the girl has it, it's usually much more muted and they could live a pretty normal, functional life with good parenting.
I can't think of anything more cucked than having a girl.copypasta
 
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