Apple Thread - The most overrated technology brand?

[Sammy]

To be fair, I suspect the real money is in the industrial, commercial, and data centre markets. Their Quadro and Tesla line of cards (which use the same chips and similar PCBs to the standard GeForce cards, but with firmware optimised for CAD and/or large scale number crunching) go for huge prices, most of which is probably profit once the specialist grade firmware and driver development costs are taken into account. The difference in the firmware is that a "gaming" card will basically do calculations to a "good enough" level of precision and guess at things far in the distance before purging everything to start calculating the next frame, but one of these cards will do all the calculations to huge precision and in full every time. This is because when you're, say, designing a plane or a bridge or a building, there is no such thing as "good enough." You also pay for the support as well, like with professional-grade software.

Yeah I'd agree, back in muh college 3Din' days those Quadro cards were sweet if had the tuition funds leftover for one.
I couldn't say where the big bread for nVidia is made exactly, industrial is probably a good bet. It might be consumer market if the volume is high enough (we didn't hear much about their Quadro cards during the bitcoin mining bubble, did we? ), but really I think in relation to owning ARM the safe money is in licensing and then becoming best friends with whoever wins. It's just like being an impartial international arms dealer selling weapons to both sides. Maybe there's a big bucks high risk reward move somewhere in the idea of legally locking out your immediate competition, but damned if I know how they'd run that play without fucking it all up.

 

[Least Concern]

After all, nVidia's business is built on licensing if you really think about it. They design up a big beefy video card that can do all this crazy shit, build a "founders" model or a showpiece card directly, but most of their cash comes from EVGA or MSI or Gigabyte licensing the cards specs and chips and building their own versions. Whether you buy nVidia's flagship founder cards or the third party, nVidia's still getting paid. So, why wouldn't they adopt ARM to this tried and true model that they've proven they're good at?

That's a good point that I hadn't considered. You're right. I might be overthinking this.

As a side note to make this post less worthless, remember Apple is revealing some new stuff tomorrow. A new Watch is a certainty. Kuo thinks there will be new iPads too. AirTags (Tile-like wireless devices for finding lost things) and a smaller HomePod are also possible. I'm not really interested in any of these products so I'm hoping some Mac bumps or other news sneak out there too, but there don't seem to be any rumors in that direction.

 

[Sammy]

That's a good point that I hadn't considered. You're right. I might be overthinking this.

As a side note to make this post less worthless, remember Apple is revealing some new stuff tomorrow. A new Watch is a certainty. Kuo thinks there will be new iPads too. AirTags (Tile-like wireless devices for finding lost things) and a smaller HomePod are also possible. I'm not really interested in any of these products so I'm hoping some Mac bumps or other news sneak out there too, but there don't seem to be any rumors in that direction.

I fucking hope they do. Apple said they'd have one ARM Mac out by the end of the year, a lot of rumors are around this being a revised MacBook 12" model, which would give it some market purpose since it didn't have the power of a Pro nor the entry cost of an Air, so it makes sense. If they're going to stick to having one out by the end of the year they'd better say something tomorrow.

Personally, I'm hoping for an ARM Mac Mini. I haven't heard of any rumors for a consumer version yet. I know some form of it exists in Apple dev kits they send out to major developers. I wanna see one of these ARM fuckers in action for myself but as cheaply as possible and that seems like a Mac Mini kind of an answer.

 

[Basil II]

I don't understand the ARM meme, our situation rn is fine, ARM is low power but is less capable than AMD64 so it's best for single board computers and smartphones whereas AMD64 takes up more power but is able to do more shit which makes it better for desktop systems.

 

[Pissmaster]

That's a good point that I hadn't considered. You're right. I might be overthinking this.

As a side note to make this post less worthless, remember Apple is revealing some new stuff tomorrow. A new Watch is a certainty. Kuo thinks there will be new iPads too. AirTags (Tile-like wireless devices for finding lost things) and a smaller HomePod are also possible. I'm not really interested in any of these products so I'm hoping some Mac bumps or other news sneak out there too, but there don't seem to be any rumors in that direction.

I like the idea of Tile and AirTag things but I really wish they could be, like, as thin as an RFID sticker. I'd like one for my wallet, and another as a collar for my cat.

 

[The Fool]

I don't understand the ARM meme, our situation rn is fine, ARM is low power but is less capable than AMD64 so it's best for single board computers and smartphones whereas AMD64 takes up more power but is able to do more shit which makes it better for desktop systems.

That's not true at all.

x86/AMD64 is a closed architecture, you can't do anything with it, not to mention just how inefficient and bloated it is, with so much backwards compatibility it's basically 4 CPUs in one.

ARM is open and can be licensed out, which means manufacturers can change and add to their own chip as they see fit. This is enabling Apple to add a shit ton of power saving and security features that Intel would refuse to implement. AMD64 does less than ARM.

Also ARM is just as powerful as AMD64, in fact pretty much all modern processor architectures are just as powerful as the other. There's nothing magic about them, it's just different ways to process different instructions. The only reason we've stuck with x86 so long is just because everything is already written for it. Of course now we live in a world of software frameworks that abstract the underlying hardware, so now the underlying CPU matters a lot less, so now we're at a stage where we can freely swap it out with something far superior and not under the tyrannical rule of Intel who seems to have the express goal of stagnating the computing industry as much as possible.

 

[Sammy]

I don't understand the ARM meme, our situation rn is fine, ARM is low power but is less capable than AMD64 so it's best for single board computers and smartphones whereas AMD64 takes up more power but is able to do more shit which makes it better for desktop systems.

ARM processors run at lower power. Generally you seem them as "less capable" because of their current popular implementation as a cheap, low heat low power draw option for phones and SBCs and such. but ARM processors are scaling up in power and functionality, and in the longterm the fact that they do run on lower energy can mean a lot since theoretically you can get the same processing done with less electricity. Imagine major mainframes and servers having a significant energy cost cut for the same (or near enough) processing power? Especially for simple web applications like site hosting or basic processing? Companies like Amazon and Oracle are already exploring these venues (I would suspect a majority of major tech firms are too but these are the projects I know of off the top of my head).

Its a pain in the ass but getting everyone on the same low level architecture also ultimately is good for software as well. One of the best practical case examples is Apple's iOS software running natively on a Mac with this ARM switch. Now software developers wouldn't have to keep two separate versions of applications built for the mobile or home computing platforms. Photoshop for iPads and tablets doesn't have to be the shitty watered down version we currently get. The phone version and the PC version of a game can be the same client software with config files for what machine they're running on. Not only with cloud based computing do your work files go with you from workstation to phone, but the software to open and work on those files does as well. The idea is that vaunted "Phone and computer software integration" everyone's chasing, but without any form of compromise.

And there'll absolutely be growing pains in leaving x86 behind since everything's so established right now, but if the tech industry can get it done there's a lot of opportunity for innovation and growth there.

EDIT - I didn't know / forgot that x86 / AMD's architectures are closed as well, thanks to @The Fool for pointing that out in the post above.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Why didn't Apple stick with the OS search feature from Panther? It worked really well, and didn't need to "index" like Spotlight.

And best of all, it wasn't Siri.

 

[Sammy]

Why didn't Apple stick with the OS search feature from Panther? It worked really well, and didn't need to "index" like Spotlight.

And best of all, it wasn't Siri.

The search in my current work Mac works pretty great tbh. Just scroll down to "show all in finder" and its basically the same thing.
I guess the website / document / mail searches in the spotlight interface are fine too, I just never use them.

 

[LegoTugboat]

That's a good point that I hadn't considered. You're right. I might be overthinking this.

As a side note to make this post less worthless, remember Apple is revealing some new stuff tomorrow. A new Watch is a certainty. Kuo thinks there will be new iPads too. AirTags (Tile-like wireless devices for finding lost things) and a smaller HomePod are also possible. I'm not really interested in any of these products so I'm hoping some Mac bumps or other news sneak out there too, but there don't seem to be any rumors in that direction.

Most of the rumours are pointing to one or two new Apple watches, and a new iPad Air with enhanced processor.
There's some assorted rumours about AirTags as well.

Also to note, for any AirPod Pro users, you got a very interesting firmware update waiting for you that adds spatial audio.

Spoiler

For the ARM side, speculation seems to be that Apple would want to bump up the lower end sort of thing first, the 8th gen Intel things, which would be the MacBook Airs, 13 inch MacBook Pro and the Mini.

As for how much of a boost, it's really hard to say since the closest thing we have to benchmarking it is the dev kit Mini and the iPad Pro, which are packing the A12Z, which are capable chips, but they're based on a 2 year old CPU and on a larger process than a A14.

Also complicating things is that the A series is based around 5 (base) to 15 watts (X-Z) of power use and passive cooling, while the Intels start at 15 watts and go up, and rely on active cooling.

And to complicate things a little bit more, Apple's been very vocal that we wouldn't see the A series used on Macs, but a separate chip series.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

To be fair, I suspect the real money is in the industrial, commercial, and data centre markets.

11 months ago:
NVIDIA and Tech Leaders Team to Build GPU-Accelerated Arm Servers for New Era of Diverse HPC Architectures

NVIDIA and Tech Leaders Team to Build GPU-Accelerated Arm Servers for New Era of Diverse HPC Architectures

SC19 — NVIDIA today introduced a reference design platform that enables companies to quickly build GPU-accelerated Arm®-based servers, driving a new era of high performance computing for a growing range of applications in science and industry.

nvidianews.nvidia.com

Their HPC servers/boxes/coffin'o'quadros was what I immediately thought of when I heard that they were interested in ARM. If the workload is going to run on their GPUs, the reason companies buy those products, why use expensive and hot Intel or AMD CPUs with features they don't need or want?

 

[ditto]

Why didn't Apple stick with the OS search feature from Panther? It worked really well, and didn't need to "index" like Spotlight.

And best of all, it wasn't Siri.

Try KatSearch -- an open source app that just scans the filesystem and doesn't need Spotlight.

Also to note, for any AirPod Pro users, you got a very interesting firmware update waiting for you that adds spatial audio.

Just hope they don't try an add any creepy COVID-19 contract tracing into AirPods.

 

[Sammy]

Ten minutes lads, then we know.
EDIT - Now

EDIT EDIT - NO ARM MAC ACCOUNCEMENT
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK

 

[Least Concern]

• New Apple Watch Series 6 with blood oxygen sensor
• More affordable Apple Watch SE (nice)
• Fitness+, a workout video service. Different kinds of workouts, some with equipment and some without, and your measurements from Apple Watch appear on screen as you work out. This was the biggest surprise announcement.
• Apple One service bundles. Music, Arcade, TV+, iCloud together at a cheaper rate; Fitness+ at the higher tiers. I was impressed at the rates here - competitive compared to something like a Netflix account plus a Spotify account.
• Spec bump on standard iPad, no cosmetic change (that bezel is starting to look mighty thicc)
• iPad Air with thinner bezels and new A14 processor
• OS updates ship tomorrow for iPhone, iPad, Watch, TV
• Nothing about Macs
• Nothing about iPhones

 

[Nguyen Van Phuoc]

Apple is ditching giving a power brick in the Series 6 in the name of saving the environment. We all knew this was happening, but still, what a stupid excuse.

EDIT: Article that says more about this:

Spoiler: Article text

Apple is ditching the USB power adapter from its Apple Watch packaging, as part of its commitment to reducing environmental waste.

After announcing the Apple Watch Series 6 and Apple Watch SE, the company gave an update on its commitment to going carbon neutral by 2030. As part of that, the company is removing the physical power brick in the new models, which Apple says will eliminate the carbon equivalent of 50,000 cars per year.

That’s quite the reduction and gives you some idea just how damage those little chargers do. The physical charging dock will still be included, but Apple is relying on users having plenty of USB power bricks at their disposal.

This has been rumoured for the iPhone 12, and today’s announcement practically confirms Apple will go this route when they next generation arrives later this year. We’d expect Apple to follow suit with the new iPads announced today also, but that hasn’t been confirmed.

The company says the Apple Watch uses a 100% recycled aluminium case, arsenic free glass, 100% recycled rare earth elements and 100% recycled tungsten in the Taptic Engine. There’s also no BFR, no PVC, no beryllium and no mercury in the construction. The firm says the packaging is made from 95% recycled fibres.

As well as going 100% carbon neutral in products by 2030, the company is also transitioning to 100% renewable energy for the production of its devices.

The decision is probably going to annoy some newcomers who have to buy a separate USB charger, but selling them isn’t Apple’s endgame here. It is under pressure from regulators around the world to help cut down on the tech waste that ends up in landfill every year. The EU, for example, wants Apple to switch from Lightning cables to a standardised USB-C cable.

Losing the power brick should appease these calls s0mewhat, as well as assist the company in meeting its own environmental goals.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

Apple is ditching giving a power brick in the Series 6 in the name of saving the environment. We all knew this was happening, but still, what a stupid excuse.

EDIT: Article that says more about this:

Spoiler: Article text

Apple is ditching the USB power adapter from its Apple Watch packaging, as part of its commitment to reducing environmental waste.

After announcing the Apple Watch Series 6 and Apple Watch SE, the company gave an update on its commitment to going carbon neutral by 2030. As part of that, the company is removing the physical power brick in the new models, which Apple says will eliminate the carbon equivalent of 50,000 cars per year.

That’s quite the reduction and gives you some idea just how damage those little chargers do. The physical charging dock will still be included, but Apple is relying on users having plenty of USB power bricks at their disposal.

This has been rumoured for the iPhone 12, and today’s announcement practically confirms Apple will go this route when they next generation arrives later this year. We’d expect Apple to follow suit with the new iPads announced today also, but that hasn’t been confirmed.

The company says the Apple Watch uses a 100% recycled aluminium case, arsenic free glass, 100% recycled rare earth elements and 100% recycled tungsten in the Taptic Engine. There’s also no BFR, no PVC, no beryllium and no mercury in the construction. The firm says the packaging is made from 95% recycled fibres.

As well as going 100% carbon neutral in products by 2030, the company is also transitioning to 100% renewable energy for the production of its devices.

The decision is probably going to annoy some newcomers who have to buy a separate USB charger, but selling them isn’t Apple’s endgame here. It is under pressure from regulators around the world to help cut down on the tech waste that ends up in landfill every year. The EU, for example, wants Apple to switch from Lightning cables to a standardised USB-C cable.

Losing the power brick should appease these calls s0mewhat, as well as assist the company in meeting its own environmental goals.

No, it's so they can sell you a proprietary brick later at excessive cost.

 

[Pissmaster]

Apple is ditching giving a power brick in the Series 6 in the name of saving the environment. We all knew this was happening, but still, what a stupid excuse.

EDIT: Article that says more about this:

Spoiler: Article text

Apple is ditching the USB power adapter from its Apple Watch packaging, as part of its commitment to reducing environmental waste.

After announcing the Apple Watch Series 6 and Apple Watch SE, the company gave an update on its commitment to going carbon neutral by 2030. As part of that, the company is removing the physical power brick in the new models, which Apple says will eliminate the carbon equivalent of 50,000 cars per year.

That’s quite the reduction and gives you some idea just how damage those little chargers do. The physical charging dock will still be included, but Apple is relying on users having plenty of USB power bricks at their disposal.

This has been rumoured for the iPhone 12, and today’s announcement practically confirms Apple will go this route when they next generation arrives later this year. We’d expect Apple to follow suit with the new iPads announced today also, but that hasn’t been confirmed.

The company says the Apple Watch uses a 100% recycled aluminium case, arsenic free glass, 100% recycled rare earth elements and 100% recycled tungsten in the Taptic Engine. There’s also no BFR, no PVC, no beryllium and no mercury in the construction. The firm says the packaging is made from 95% recycled fibres.

As well as going 100% carbon neutral in products by 2030, the company is also transitioning to 100% renewable energy for the production of its devices.

The decision is probably going to annoy some newcomers who have to buy a separate USB charger, but selling them isn’t Apple’s endgame here. It is under pressure from regulators around the world to help cut down on the tech waste that ends up in landfill every year. The EU, for example, wants Apple to switch from Lightning cables to a standardised USB-C cable.

Losing the power brick should appease these calls s0mewhat, as well as assist the company in meeting its own environmental goals.

I love the environment so much I'm just not gonna buy one, to keep one more Apple Watch out of the landfill, where they're all inevitably going after their batteries die

 

[Sammy]

Yeah its mostly going to be a cost cutting measure. Though Apple's hardly the first company to do it, I'm looking at you Nintendo, and like, uh, most other low cost electronics companies. I also think the European decree of "all phones use the same connections so we stop throwing away phone cables every 5 years of upgrades, stop with this lightning port thing and get everything on USB-C Apple" has some minor part to play in this as well, though probably just in the verbiage they used to make the announcement rather than in the decision to save a buck.

 

[Least Concern]

Apple is ditching giving a power brick in the Series 6 in the name of saving the environment. We all knew this was happening, but still, what a stupid excuse.

It's silly to frame it as an environmental issue, but really, I'm fine with it. I probably own three times as many USB power adapters than devices that charge via USB at this point, so I won't suffer too much if the next device I buy doesn't have one. Should that change, I can get an adapter at just about any electronics, department, or convenience store.

One thing I forgot to mention is that Apple done good by not bringing up the recent riots and racial strife. I really was expecting them to get a #BlackLivesMatter or the like in there somewhere since they are that kind of company, but they managed to avoid it, thankfully.

 

[Sammy]

It's silly to frame it as an environmental issue, but really, I'm fine with it. I probably own three times as many USB power adapters than devices that charge via USB at this point, so I won't suffer too much if the next device I buy doesn't have one. Should that change, I can get an adapter at just about any electronics, department, or convenience store.

One thing I forgot to mention is that Apple done good by not bringing up the recent riots and racial strife. I really was expecting them to get a #BlackLivesMatter or the like in there somewhere since they are that kind of company, but they managed to avoid it, thankfully.

They did have a twitter post when it first hit, earning them a vaunted slot on the OAG Traitors of America list, so they've said their piece. Now check out this sweet stuff to buy just before the holidays.