Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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We do know that at around 10% the disease vector falls of a cliff. Best estimates that there are 5 times more positive cases than show up in testing, so when we get to a 2% positive case number for a given population the curve collapses as we reach suppression/ partial herd immunity. This happens every single time, lockdown or not.

The ZOMG! bullshit around the second wave in Europe and the US is nothing more that an artifact of testing. When the coof migrated out of China there was hardly any testing being done. Now with mass scale testing we're seeing equivalent positive case numbers but an extraordinarily low mortality rate, impossible for a slowly mutating virus.

My biggest concern is not Covid, the big pandemic wave is obviously done, but rather the lockdowns which are doing far more harm. Case in point is how we will handle the coming seasonal flu outbreaks this winter. They've kept people locked up for months. Stressed them out, prevented them from going outside and enjoying the sun leading to endemically low Vitamin D in the population and stopped people from mixing which also represses immune response. Oh and we're also making them wear stupid cloth masks, which are unhygienic leading to breathing in mold and bacteria. When boomers start dying in droves from the common flu will we at last see an end to this insanity?

You know they will just keep blaming the deaths on Covid to reinforce the agenda,dont kid yourself.
 
You know they will just keep blaming the deaths on Covid to reinforce the agenda,dont kid yourself.

"They" will milk this until their wrists fall off from milking. "They" don't give flying fuck one how many suffer economically, mentally, or any other way. Nothing less than criminal. Not even the Nazis or the Soviets at their worst kept people from going out to work.

Seriously, folks, please consider donating to a holiday food/toy drive. Or just help someone or a family one-to-one. Need likely to be the worst ever.

Some things from Reason. Archive's working well today.








 
Gov. has no authority to continue state of emergency, Michigan Supreme Court rules


The Michigan Supreme Court ruled 4-3 that the 1945 law was unconstitutional, and [ETA: ruled 7-0] that the Governor cannot issue a new state of emergency every 28 days when the old one expires [ETA: if the legislature does not approve such an extension].

From Whitmer's response:
“It is important to note that this ruling does not take effect for at least 21 days, and until then, my emergency declaration and orders retain the force of law. Furthermore, after 21 days, many of the responsive measures I have put in place to control the spread of the virus will continue under alternative sources of authority that were not at issue in today’s ruling."


r/Michigan weighs in:

They think this may render moot the Unlock Michigan petition, submitted today, since the law that it would have repealed has now been voided by the court.
 
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Gov. has no authority to continue state of emergency, Michigan Supreme Court rules


The Michigan Supreme Court ruled 4-3 that the 1945 law was unconstitutional, and that the Governor cannot issue a new state of emergency every 28 days when the old one expires.

From Whitmer's response:
“It is important to note that this ruling does not take effect for at least 21 days, and until then, my emergency declaration and orders retain the force of law. Furthermore, after 21 days, many of the responsive measures I have put in place to control the spread of the virus will continue under alternative sources of authority that were not at issue in today’s ruling."


r/Michigan weighs in:

They think this may render moot the Unlock Michigan petition, submitted today, since the law that it would have repealed has now been voided by the court.
I guess it's a win either way, unless the state appeals to a higher court to overturn the ruling. It's a shame it took this fucking long to do something about it. If I were in Michigan, I'd prefer to have the petition continue going forward, just in case.

I'm sure there are a lot of people counting down the days until Whitmer can be thrown out of office. Shame she's not up for reelection until 2022.
 
I've got some leftover antibiotic mouthwash that I had to use after getting a tooth fixed. You bet I'm going to be rinsing my mouth with that three times a day in an attempt to mitigate microbial buildup in a mask. I'm thinking ahead because I got to the next stage in the hiring process for a city position, and I can't see Wisconsin being able to go maskless for a long time. :(
 
I've got some leftover antibiotic mouthwash that I had to use after getting a tooth fixed. You bet I'm going to be rinsing my mouth with that three times a day in an attempt to mitigate microbial buildup in a mask. I'm thinking ahead because I got to the next stage in the hiring process for a city position, and I can't see Wisconsin being able to go maskless for a long time. :(

All mouthwash is antimicrobial if there is alcohol in it. If this mouthwash actually also has antibiotics in it, that may also help. One good way to beat microbial buildup in a mask - have more than one, rotate wear, wash them, let dry in the sun. Sun powerful virus/bacteria/microbe killer. Dryer good, too, but sun best.



Added: Looking at some above posts, sure is sickening to see what an egotistical, criminal bitch Whitmer is.
 
So idk if I'm late, but yesterday we got results from some test in July indicating about 130,000 people in Ohio had covid antibodies. DeWine saw this and thought, "how can I be a huge cunt?"

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020...s-to-coronavirus-in-july-statewide-study.html

Gov. Mike DeWine says Ohioans will wear masks for awhile, after new study finds just 1.5% of state had coronavirus antibodies in July
Updated Oct 01, 10:36 PM; Posted Oct 01, 3:10 PM

By Laura Hancock, cleveland.com

COLUMBUS, Ohio – A study of Ohio adults found that 1.5% had antibodies to COVID-19 in July, when the state conducted a large study to try to estimate the prevalence of the illness.

Statewide, that corresponds to about 133,000 Ohio adults.

Antibodies are proteins developed in people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. Researchers also found that 0.9% of people had active coronavirus illnesses at that time. That corresponds statewide 80,000 people.

The conclusion of the study made by Gov. Mike DeWine is that so few Ohioans are immune that the state’s residents will have to continue to wear masks, physically space themselves apart and exercise other measures to prevent spread of COVID-19. These measures could continue for awhile, until a vaccine is widely available, he said.

The study

Ohio State University and the Ohio Department of Health conducted the study July 9-18, with 727 adults participating, after reaching out to 1,200 households. The households were located across U.S. Census Bureau tracts that are geographically representative of the state, said Abby Norris-Turner, an OSU infectious disease epidemiologist involved in the research.

People were given a blood serological test for antibodies and a nasal swab to look for active infection.

After the laboratory results came back, researchers used Bayesian statistics across the Census tracts “to come up with these estimates that would be a statewide estimate of prevalence,” Norris-Turner said.

The confidence interval for the 1.5% of people with antibodies ranges from 0.3% to 2.9%.

The confidence interval for the active cases ranges from 0.1% to 2%.

Three month antibody detection

Antibodies for COVID-19 can be detected for about three months, so that some of the people were infected as far back as mid-April.

Norris-Turner said that people infected earlier may have some form of coronavirus resistance, but the science isn’t yet definitive.

She said the antibody test results are consistent with American Red Cross antibody tests that are given to people who want to donate blood. They are also similar to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study that included Ohio.

Because antibody tests can’t go back more than three months, there is no way to get a complete picture of how many Ohioans have had COVID-19.

“What we can say more generally and with confidence is the prevalence of COVID-19 of adults in Ohio – this study only studied adults – is relatively low, has remained relatively low,” she said. “The flip side of that coin, of course, is that that means many more people are still susceptible for infection.”

Compared to other states

Ohio, in comparison to regional neighbors, is fairly low in the prevalence of people with antibodies, Norris-Turner said. West Virginia and Wisconsin are lower than Ohio. Indiana is similar to Ohio.

But Ohio is much lower than Pennsylvania and New York.

Expect to wear your mask for years

DeWine later commented on the study, concluded that it shows Ohio isn’t anywhere close to herd immunity, which will occur when most of the population is immune to COVID-19.

That means Ohioans will have to wear masks, socially distance and exercise other preventative measures for quite a while.

“As you heard from the discussion that (Lt. Gov.) Jon Husted had and the study he presented today, we’re not going to get that without the vaccine,” DeWine said. “We’re not going to work our way into this for years. So what we have to do is hang in there, keep this virus low. We’ll keep our foot on its neck and wait. And we wait for the vaccine to hit and when it gets here and the first people start getting the shots, we’ve got to encourage everybody to get one that can."

As with coronavirus testing in the beginning of the pandemic, vaccines will be scarce in the beginning and only given to the most vulnerable people -- such as nursing home residents and first responders.

“It’s going to take a while to get this out," DeWine said. “...(When) we’ve got a significant segment of the population, and I don’t know what that segment is, but a significant segment that have that immunity -- if this does in fact work the way we hope it will --that’s when we see the end of this.”
 
Michigan, USA

"Unlock Michigan" turned in their petitions today to limit Governor Gretchen Whitmer (D)'s emergency powers.

The legal situation: In Michigan we have two laws about states of emergency. One is from 1945 and sets no expiration date on a state of emergency proclaimed by the Governor. One is from 1976 and says that states of emergency last 28 days, and anything longer needs to be approved by the legislature. Since the 1976 law did not explicitly repeal the 1945 law, the Governor has argued that she can ignore the 1976 law's time limit and keep a state of emergency in effect as long as she sees fit, without the legislature's approval. This petiton is to repeal the 1945 law.

The group gathered 539,384 signatures, which will now be reviewed by the State Board of Canvassers. If they find that there are 340,047 valid signatures (63% of what was gathered) the petition will go before the Michigan legislature.
If a simple majority of both houses votes "yes," the petition becomes law and the Governor cannot veto it. If they vote "no," the petition is placed on the ballot at a future election (it won't be on the November ballot).

Unlock Michigan says the validation of signatures should take about 60 days. Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson (D) says it will take about 105 - i.e. after inauguration day, which in Michigan is January 1st. The Republicans currently control both chambers of the legislature. The Senate is not up for reelection; the House is, and Republicans there only have a 58-51 majority. (One Democrat died and has not yet been replaced).

It should also be noted that Michigan's Attorney General Dana Nessel (D) has launched a criminal investigation into Unlock Michigan on suspicion of collecting signatures via fraudulent means.


I remember reading or hearing somewhere (it's not in the linked articles) that even if the legislature approves the petition, it probably wouldn't take effect until April, for reasons I can't remember.

Things like this remind me just how bureaucracy impedes anything to get done in general. They were given power in a snap of a finger but to actually take it away from them requires a lot of god damn waiting and jerking off the right person to make sure it even gets off the ground.
The whole system is flawed but, like usual, nobody bothers to address this since it would be too much work to fix it or replace it and no one wants to be bothered (and possibly blamed if it all comes crashing down).
 
Businesses are generally doing better from what I can tell, except for the movie theaters.
In Michigan, there is a chain of theaters in the Detroit area that has been particular hit hard because they spent nearly six months shut down until they were recently given the go-ahead to finally re-open.

The owner was desperate enough for money that he originally planned to show some documentaries on Juneteenth until AG Nessel threatened to take him to court to stop that. Later, he made an agreement to rent out one of his unused theaters to a private school that needed lecture space that was large enough to accommodate the class size and still allow for social distancing. I know there was some bouncing and squeaking from the state about that, but I believe they couldn't do much about it because it was all kosher within existing laws and executive orders.

I think it's mostly a lack of new movies that explains the low population. I love seeing classics on the big screen (Akira was gorgeous), but it's nowhere near as much of a draw to the general public as the latest capeshit blockbuster.
Earlier in the week, the owner of the aforementioned theaters mentioned that his theaters will show both recent and older favorites upon reopening. Also, the films will run on all of the screens simultaneously on all screens so that everyone can view the film of choice and still do so with socially distancing. The owner also mentioned that the time gap between showings will be longer because the theaters have to be more thorough when cleaning/disinfecting each screening area. Given that these particular theaters also have bowling alleys and snack bars with overpriced treats, time will tell whether people are eager to show up or if they will wait to see how safe these theaters really are once they officially reopen.

This is insanity. I feel sorry for all of the Kiwis from California (more than I usually do).
While it's a good thing to see people concerned about the disproportinate rate of COVID in minorities, this seems like the wrong approach to combating the problem. In many cases, poor lifestyle choices have made minorities more susceptible to COVID, so any attempts to fight it need to be combined with efforts to encourage them to life amore healthy lifestyle, even if such a push would be optimistic :optimistic: at best.

edit: Trump has also tested positive for the coronavirus. But I'm sure you know that by now if you live in the modern world. Hang on right, things are going to get crazier.
This has been a weird happening. I'm seeing plenty of a-logging over this from the usual suspects when they learn Trump now has COVID, but I'm also seeing some of his bigger detractors offering what seems to be sincere wishes for a quick recovery. What a time line indeed, huh?

Man, after the lockdown happened every day this year has melded into the next one like a Blur.
I felt the same way when I was working at home for two months. It had its advantages, but the days blended into each other so much I'd have to remind myself when it was the weekend and I had the day off.

It should also be noted that Michigan's Attorney General Dana Nessel (D) has launched a criminal investigation into Unlock Michigan on suspicion of collecting signatures via fraudulent means.
Yet democratic-based petition drives that use the same shady signature collection techniques always seem to do so with impunity. :roll:

The Michigan Supreme Court ruled 4-3 that the 1945 law was unconstitutional, and that the Governor cannot issue a new state of emergency every 28 days when the old one expires.
Here is an archive link for the Freep article:

If I read the ruling right, the court ruled that Whitmer as the Executive Branch was using power intended for the Legislative Branch of state government. Regardless of political affiliation, it's dangerous for any governor to have unlimited/unchecked power. So, the state supreme court seems to agree with that principle.

For what it's worth, it seems like county health departments are the ones that interpret the executive orders and decide how to best enforce them. Because each county has different needs for addressing COVID -- Wayne County (Detroit's county) will have different needs than Iron County in the upper peninsula for example -- I'd rather see county health departments make more of the decisions on how to address COVID and work with other surrounding counties that may have similar concerns and needs. "One size fits all" doesn't always work at the state or national level.

I guess it's a win either way, unless the state appeals to a higher court to overturn the ruling.
I'm not sure if the next step is an appeal to a circuit court or SCOTUS. If SCOTUS were to even take the case (a big if, IMO), I don't see them overturning it with a 4-4 makeup of Republicans and Democrats should the decision once again go along party lines. As we saw when SCOTUS had a vacancy after Scalia's death, a 4-4 decision isn't enough to overturn a lower court's ruling.

It will be telling to see if Whitmer spends the next 21 days bouncing and squeaking over today's ruling, or if she finally takes the hint and starts making plans to work with the legislature on this moving forward.
 
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I'm not sure if the next step is an appeal to a circuit court or SCOTUS. If SCOTUS were to even take the case (a big if, IMO), I don't see them overturning it with a 4-4 makeup of Republicans and Democrats should the decision once again go along party lines. As we saw when SCOTUS had a vacancy after Scalia's death, a 4-4 decision isn't enough to overturn a lower court's ruling.

SCOTUS, in general, can't overrule a Michigan court opinion about what the Michigan Constitution means. This was a question certified to the Michigan Supreme Court by a federal court, though, so it's essentially an advisory opinion that may or may not determine what the federal court decides. So there isn't really an avenue of appeal from a state supreme court's hypothetical opinion, but there would be (to the federal circuit) from whatever the federal court actually rules, whether or not they use the Michigan Supreme Court's reasoning, or come to the same (or a different) decision based on federal law or the U.S. Constitution.
 
The movie theaters here are open however theres no new movies to watch that are worth paying for. Because of this the local theaters now have a 5$ classic cinema. Watched The Lost Boys last night and had bonfire chicken tacos that were 🔥. There playing some great classics that my old lady has never seen so it's a win for me.
 
The latest in my county. This shit will be continuing until Newsom is recalled. Also providing link to study on masks. Long, but interesting. Bottom line - overall better to go without a mask.


CORONAVIRUS CASES INCREASE (A LITTLE)

You may not be aware of it, but Saturdays have taken on a newly important role when it comes to the coronavirus epidemic and reopening the economy. That's because Saturday marks the end of the each week used by the Gov. Gavin Newsom and the California Department of Public Health to measure how serious our epidemic is and decide whether we should be moved to a different tier of the their shutdown scheme.

For the week that ended Sept. 26, Monterey County had its lowest total number of cases — 417 — in three months, and when our report card for last week is announced Tuesday, our score should get pretty close the 7.0 needed to move from the Purple Tier to the Red Tier.

But this week — the one that ends today — the cases increased to 428, health department data show. That's a minor setback, to be sure, but makes it less likely we'll be able to reopen parts of economy in the next few weeks. (Or until Newsom is recalled. - JS)

This week's 428 cases occurred mostly in Salinas and the Salinas Valley, which had 334. The Monterey Peninsula had 51, including 33 in Seaside, 10 in Marina, five in Monterey, and one each in Carmel area (93923) Carmel Valley and Pebble Beach. Carmel-by-the-Sea, Big Sur and Pacific Grove had no cases during the week.

There were four coronavirus-related fatalities among county residents, bringing the total to 75, or 161.5 per million county residents. Cumulative hospitalizations now stand at 610. At the end of the week, CHOMP (Community Hospital of the Monterey Peninsula - JS) reported having four Covid-positive inpatients, while SVMH (Salinas Valley Memorial Hospital - JS) had 15.

Link to mask study.




And a Reason article about this terminally fucked-up state.



 
Okay guys, sorry to bust in on the convo but I’m officially over this mask business. I got a job during the quarantine and I had to interview in my mask. My boss didn’t know what I looked like for like two weeks. To avoid PL, I work with plants. I feel naked and like I’m doing something wrong if I don’t have my mask on. Is the government just gonna be like “okay everybody masks off!” one day? Because I would jump on that immediately but I feel like my employer and maybe a bunch of other companies would have workers keep their masks on to appease costumers. (But okay if they’re that worried about COVID why are they casually shopping around smh). My boss even told me he had costumers walk out just because some people in the store were not wearing masks ( it was hot as balls during the summer). Like,, why are you buying bullshit if you’re so worried.

Hopefully Alex Jones is not right about people’s faces unmasked becoming like seeing someone naked. (:_(
 
I know my early reactions to the coof we're heavily motivated by what was coming out of China early this year, so I can understand the government's early reactions to the Wu-Flu. I remember when we got the first case in my state, I was expecting shit to get really bad really fast, but it never did. We're still under nine-hundred deaths here despite nobody following the lockdown measures, and our governor still insists on keeping these ineffectual measures in place when all they do is hurt people worse than the virus would have. At this point, the response has been so inflexible that it looks like the measures are being kept in place due to ego and spite rather than any "follow the science" justification I've seen. It's been time to change strategy for a while now.

At least I've learned not to get so doompilled about this kind of shit in the future. I know I was expecting a worst case scenario early on in this thread.

It's just not the "bodies in the street" disaster we feared. I just don the mask to ride the bus and get into stores. I live my life the same as always for the most part.

The worst thing so far for me is that since the bars are closed the degenerates have nowhere to go and just hang out everywhere. The liquor store line is all down the block. During the worst part of the lockdown there was a woman selling mixed drinks out of the trunk of her car. She just mixed them right in the trunk. It was surreal.

I am sick of being harassed. The hanging out is so bad I think store owners gave up telling these people to go away. Open the fucking bars already. I don't see what the big deal is anymore. Either that or have the police actually not be afraid to do their job and tell them to fuck off and go home.

All these people hanging out do not wear masks or social distance. Yet none of them seem to be coughing or dead.

I sneezed in my mask twice today while shopping. I am sure that is a hell of a lot less healthy for me then not wearing a mask. I have scars on my lungs from a very bad respiratory infection in 2017 that was a hell of a lot worse than the one I got at the start of the pandemic. So I have a chronic cough. Coughing into a mask is gross and unhealthy for me. At least with cold weather coming the mask can also serve as a face warmer.
 
Okay guys, sorry to bust in on the convo but I’m officially over this mask business. I got a job during the quarantine and I had to interview in my mask. My boss didn’t know what I looked like for like two weeks. To avoid PL, I work with plants. I feel naked and like I’m doing something wrong if I don’t have my mask on. Is the government just gonna be like “okay everybody masks off!” one day? Because I would jump on that immediately but I feel like my employer and maybe a bunch of other companies would have workers keep their masks on to appease costumers. (But okay if they’re that worried about COVID why are they casually shopping around smh). My boss even told me he had costumers walk out just because some people in the store were not wearing masks ( it was hot as balls during the summer). Like,, why are you buying bullshit if you’re so worried.
It is amazing to me the number of coddled, lazy cunts who work in offices but are too scared to go back to work, but who are also going abroad on holiday. Ffs. I can guarantee they would change their minds sharpish if the government stopped paying them to sit at home getting fat.

I want to not wear a mask to stores, but I see people on Nextdoor and Reddit complaining about employees not enforcing mask regulations and saying they won't shop there. I don't want to see even more of the stores I love go out of business because the Karen's won't shop there :( I went to three different doctors for doctors notes to not have to wear a mask because of anxiety, and they all denied me saying it wasn't safe.
I'm amazed at how cucked those doctors were. Country I'm in, all the med mad staff I know are sick to death of the lies. Unless they meant you personally are at higher risk?


Edited again to say because I had a thought: All these people suffering from "long covid"? They work in jobs with ample, fully paid sick leave. I wonder if they would change their damn tune and get the hell back to work if, like people in retail or hospitality, they had to make the choice between going on statutory sick pay and benefits, they would suck it the fuck up and get back to work?

Viruses can make you feel crap. A bad dose of the flu can affect you for months after the initial symptoms abate. But most people, who do not have the luxury of lolling about at home whinging about how poorly they are, suck it up and get on with it. I'd be willing to bet plenty of people feel run down and rotten for a while after having it, just like they do with the flu or bronchitis, but they simply cannot afford to take weeks and months off wallowing in self pity.
 
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The Guats told a caravan from Honduras looking to illegally enter the USA they have to go back because, as Guatemalan President Alejandro Giammattei stated:

Amid the current health emergency, not only did they fail to respect measures to enter the country but also health measures established to protect our citizens (Giammattei is recovering from covid).

Most did except for about 1,000 who have been ordered detained and returned back to their shithole. Mexico deployed troops at the border to block the illegals.

Curious if the "peaceful protesters" in Portland/Seattle rush to the border so as to help their precious wetbacks because someone needs to rake the leaves and do the laundry while they try to burn down their cities or harass retirees having dinner. Bonus if they flock to the Mexico or Guatemala borders to get a taste of what policing means in the third world (hint-they'll throw the NLG into the cell with them after slapping them around for daring to complain; in addition, the law there is based on the Code Napoléon, not the Bill of Rights so no right to a free lawyer Antifags).

link
 
Canadian updates. Ever since Trump got the coof Canadians are starting to hoard toilet paper again. I doubt anyone cares but I thought it was funny. People are starting to get autistic about it again but it's thankfully a minority, I won't be surprised to see another round of panic buying set off by the propaganda swallowers and doomers, the government is starting to wean the population off the gibs so they're suddenly no longer being faggots about going to work, there is a slight increase in cases that was inevitable with reopening but enough people have seen how overblown it is that no one is really pro lockdown here.

The only thing pissing people off (besides the mandates which they mostly just half ass or ignore) is how doctors are still doing phone only appointments and shit is getting put off or ignored, so walk in clinics and ERs are being overburdened with minor shit because people want to be physically seen and often can't. I suspect it's docs who love working from home and charging the government the same as a regular appointment for giving some phone advice that are the ones advocating for this.

The homeless population are now in tent cities instead of shelters (they like it better because shelters usually segregate men and women and ban drugs/booze, charity groups are handing out tents and the cops aren't allowed to go near them even in the middle of the fucking city and they took away the portojohns they had for them because they were trashing them so bad charity workers wouldn't maintain them and none of the bums volunteered) and bored/unemployed people are gathering in midsized groups in public with foldout chairs drinking poorly hidden booze (not sure if cops were warned not to mess with them or they just don't care, probably some of both). Few if any cases have been noted in the homeless population, but to be fair I doubt they are testing them. Most of them are frequent flyers in the ER and no one would even notice actual coof from pseudo-coof most of them experience from heavy smoking of discarded butts, hard drugs smoked from unhygienic rigs, COPD, hepatitis C, HIV, and whatever else.

Private businesses are still following and enforcing mandates, people are still half assing them, it seems to be good enough.
 
I mentioned in the Kiwis kissed by Corona thread that I've been exposed to the Cooties.
A few days ago I started feeling fatigued and now my blood pressure seems to be spiking at random.
I have not been tested and I really don't want to go have it done since there's not any treatment for it and going out would expose others to my germs.
This sucks. I was supposed to sit back and watch other people get sick, not catch it myself. Boo.
 
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