The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Zero Day Defense]

Getting rid of the choice to have an abortion is still forcing the kid to be born.

Suggesting that a woman can be "forced" to give birth to a child where the only constraint for said woman is that abortion is outlawed is asinine for two reasons:

1. Under normal circumstances (>=85%), nobody forced conception onto the woman.
2. Those who perform abortion procedures are not mere abortion dispensers, as you imply in your reasoning. They could as well refuse the service to the woman. Under those circumstances, however, she's not being forced to give birth to the child, because there's no obligation for the doctor to perform it outside of an agreement to do so.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Suggesting that a woman can be "forced" to give birth to a child where the only constraint for said woman is that abortion is outlawed is asinine for two reasons:

1. Under normal circumstances (>=85%), nobody forced conception onto the woman.
2. Those who perform abortion procedures are not mere abortion dispensers, as you imply in your reasoning. They could as well refuse the service to the woman. Under those circumstances, however, she's not being forced to give birth to the child, because there's no obligation for the doctor to perform it outside of an agreement to do so.

You are still taking away her choice.

Saying this for the ten thousandth time won't make me agree.

Nope.

What's shitty about preventing them from committing murder?

It's not murder except in your aspie mind. If we are going to just use our opinions as facts, I think not wearing a mask should be manslaughter. What makes your opinion more valid than mine?

 

[Eris!]

You are still taking away her choice.

Rightfully so.

If we are going to just use our opinions as facts,

It's not an opinion, it's a definition.

I think not wearing a mask should be manslaughter. What makes your opinion more valid than mine?

What makes a flat earther's opinion less valid than a round earther's?

Brainlet shocked to learn that arguments are about asserting your opinion as fact.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Rightfully so.

It's not an opinion, it's a definition.

What makes a flat earther's opinion less valid than a round earther's?

How is it rightfully so and a definition?

A flat earther's opinion is incorrect because the earth is indeed round. You can literally see it when you travel in an airplane (I know you aspies prefer trains, but try it sometime)

 

[Eris!]

How is it rightfully so

Taking away someone's right to murder is good.

and a definition?

I have been explaining the difference in our understanding of the word "Force." Your understanding is not mine. You cannot apply yours to my internal reasoning, because it's not the one I use.

A flat earther's opinion is incorrect because the earth is indeed round.

Exactly, and abortion is indeed murder. Both are issues of fact, not subjectivity. There is a single correct answer, and anyone who chooses that answer is right. Anyone who doesn't is wrong. There is only one valid opinion and infinite invalid ones. The objective of this argument, of any argument, is to find out which one that is.
Why would you ever argue about something subjective?

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Taking away someone's right to murder is good.

I have been explaining the difference in our understanding of the word "Force." Your understanding is not mine. You cannot apply yours to my internal reasoning, because it's not the one I use.


Exactly, and abortion is indeed murder. Both are issues of fact, not subjectivity. There is a single correct answer, and anyone who chooses that answer is right. Anyone who doesn't is wrong. There is only one valid opinion and infinite invalid ones. The objective of this argument is to find out which one that is.

No, it's not murder except in your opinion. What makes it murder? A fetus isn't a sentient person. It's no more murder than destroying a brick is destroying a house.

 

[Eris!]

What makes it murder?

It is the violation of one human's right to life by another.

A fetus isn't a sentient person

Do you see the word "Sentient" anywhere in the sentence above? No? That's because it's not relevant to whether or not it's murder.
It is a human being. This is the only prerequisite.

It's no more murder than destroying a brick is destroying a house

If I blow up your construction site I robbed you of all the effort you spent, but also of what that effort was working toward. The natural future exists, and can be taken from you. The present is not all there is. A thing is not merely what it is now.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

It is the violation of one human's right to life by another.

Do you see the word "Sentient" anywhere in the sentence above? No? That's because it's not relevant to whether or not it's murder.
It is a human being. This is the only prerequisite.

I guess masturbation is also murder then, right?

It's not a human being yet. It's no more a human than a brick is a house

 

[Eris!]

I guess masturbation is also murder then, right?

No, because there is no extant human being who you are making non-extant.

It's not a human being yet. It's no more a human than a brick is a house

A human being is a biological mass of the species human with a unique genome. A fetus is a human being.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

No, because there is no extant human being who you are making non-extant.

A human being is a biological mass with a unique human genome. A fetus is a human being.

Maybe in your autistic mind it is, but in most people's minds, it's not. You can't just make up a definition and think that should be the law. I know you aspies have trouble with that, but it's how the real world works

 

[KEKleon]

What does any of that have to do with me?

What does any of this debate have to do with you? Why debate any of it if the outcome doesn't matter other than "but murder" which still doesn't affect you?

 

[Eris!]

Maybe in your autistic mind it is, but in most people's minds, it's not.

Facts are not a democracy. Stating that people disagree with me is not an argument, no matter their proportion.

You can't just make up a definition and think that should be the law

That's literally how laws work.

What does any of this debate have to do with you? Why debate any of it if the outcome doesn't matter other than "but murder" which still doesn't affect you?

Murder is immoral. Immoral things are impermissible. It doesn't need to effect me: It's not a personal matter, it's a moral matter.
"That guy murdered that other guy, why are you arresting him, it doesn't effect you?"
Because he deserves it.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Facts are not a democracy. Stating that people disagree with me is not an argument, no matter their proportion.

That's literally how laws work.

Murder is immoral. Immoral things are impermissible. It doesn't need to effect me: It's not a personal matter, it's a moral matter.
"That guy murdered that other guy, why are you arresting him, it doesn't effect you?"
Because he deserves it.

What you think doesn't matter. You think it's murder, but it's not murder to the vast majority of people. Only incels and evangelicals consider it murder.

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

Only incels and evangelicals consider it murder.

my homies from المملكة العربية السعودية would disagree with that

 

[Muh Vagina]

That's not relevant. The point of the question is to illustrate that laws can violate human rights, because rights exist independently of laws.

Fetuses are only potential humans, therefore human rights don't apply to them. Is this really such a difficult concept?

And? We're talking about the legality of the institution. Does the fact that it was legal justify it or not?

No, but you're still comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Eris!]

You think it's murder, but it's not murder to the vast majority of people.

It's like you actually can't comprehend that the majority can be wrong.
Facts are not just whatever the majority thinks. "To them" is irrelevant. The only opinion that matters is "in actual fact."

Fetuses are only potential humans,

No, they are already humans. They have already been created, they exist. They are not a goat or a cat, they are a human. They are not their mother or their father, they are themselves. Ontologically it is undeniable that they are human beings.

No, but you're still comparing apples to oranges.

Literally the thing you are complaining about has absolutely no relevance to the argument being made. You are deflecting.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

It's like you actually can't comprehend that the majority can be wrong.
Facts are not just whatever the majority thinks.

What makes you right and not the majority?

 

[Eris!]

What makes you right and not the majority?

You have literally been reduced to questioning the nature of truth itself as a cope for you being wrong. Sad.
I'm not going to bother answering this question. You should already know basic shit like this.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

You have literally been reduced to questioning the nature of truth itself as a cope for you being wrong. Sad.

We get it, you're an aspie and can't conceive of someone else's point of view, but just try for us here.

 

[KEKleon]

Murder is immoral. Immoral things are impermissible. It doesn't need to effect me: It's not a personal matter, it's a moral matter.

Everyone's morals are different, that's why a ton of religions and viewpoints exist. There are generally universal morals like no fucking family because of the gross results. This topic is really mixed and I get that - it's difficult to figure out where to draw the line. My problem lies mostly in that you say it's immoral, but it seems immoral to just forget about what happens afterwards no matter what led up to pregnancy or what happens after. What if the baby is just neglected afterwards? Could be planned or not, but it doesn't affect you immediately and tbh would've just been easier and less cruel to abort - and leads to less problems overall because it affects less people than if they had to carry to term.

It's just way more immoral to simply ignore a living child that's suffering or the product of someone else's suffering all because "not my problem". It eventually will be your problem through taxes, crime, or otherwise.

It makes no sense to me about how murder is immoral but letting something basically suffer is cool.