Twitter blocks post from White House science adviser Scott Atlas

Twitter blocks post from White House science adviser Scott Atlas

archived 19 Oct 2020 12:43:12 UTC

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2020/OCT/19 - Mark Moore (NY Post)

Twitter blocked a post from top White House coronavirus adviser Scott Atlas on Sunday that questioned the use of masks as a means of curbing the spread of the illness. Atlas, who joined the White House in August, wrote, “Masks work? NO,” while adding that the widespread use of face coverings is not supported by evidence.


“Masks work? NO: LA, Miami, Hawaii, Alabama, France, Phlippines, UK, Spain, Israel. WHO: widesprd use not supported’ + many harms; Heneghan/Oxf CEBM: ‘despite decades, considerble uncertainty re value’; CDC rvw May:’no sig red’n in inflnz transm’n’; learn why,” the top doctor wrote. A spokesperson for the social media company told the Associated Press that the tweet violated its policy of sharing false or misleading information about the coronavirus that could lead to harm. Atlas, the former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center, said Twitter’s action amounted to censorship.

“I don’t understand why the tweets were deleted,” Atlas said in an email to the wire service. He said his post meant to show that “general population masks and mask mandates do not work” and pointed out that they should be used when people cannot socially distance. Despite mask mandates, coronavirus cases exploded in Los Angeles County, Miami-Dade County, Hawaii, Alabama, the Philippines and Japan. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend people wear masks in public settings like grocery stores, pharmacies, where social distancing is difficult because infected people who do not show symptoms of the disease can still be contagious.

 

[ChikN10der]

Appeal to authority is only a fallacy if you're a total retard like you are. You don't listen to experts? Do you never go to the doctor? Do you never go on an airplane? If you ever do that, you are trusting an expert. Or, better yet, explain to me how it's a fallacy.

I already showed you links stating how they work. They worked before 2020, too, it's just that normally they weren't really necessary because there wasn't a virus going around like there is now. They have been worn in Asia for many years now to help slow spreads of flus and things like that. You're just a whiny bitch who throws temper tantrums when told to put a mask on because you're a selfish prick. Is it really that hard to wear a mask to help protect others?

Appeal to authority is always a logical fallacy. Of course I go to doctors and relevant experts. What I definitely don't do is just take their word for things, I make sure I understand it. Having the expert explain why their expert opinion is right is convincing, when they know what they're talking about.

Were the doctors of the 1800s correct about trepanation being the cure for what ails you? They were the experts, after all.
How about the early 20th century, when experts said lobotomies are a great way to manage promiscuous daughters?

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Appeal to authority is always a logical fallacy. Of course I go to doctors and relevant experts. What I definitely don't do is just take their word for things, I make sure I understand it. Having the expert explain why their expert opinion is right is convincing, when they know what they're talking about.

Were the doctors of the 1800s correct about trepanation being the cure for what ails you? They were the experts, after all.
How about the early 20th century, when experts said lobotomies are a great way to manage promiscuous daughters?

Science changes over time. Yes, sometimes they get it wrong, but to be arrogant enough to claim you know something they don't about a subject they've devoted their lives to studying, especially when they have solid evidence to back it up, is really retarded.

And look at Pascal's wager when it comes to masks.

Let's say that they don't work. By wearing one, you don't do any harm. Yeah, you bought a $10 mask that you wash every night, but no one gets hurt. By not wearing one, you still come out even (maybe up $10 because of the mask cost).
Now, let's say that they do work. By not wearing one, you are potentially putting many people in danger of dying of a virus. That's pretty bad. By wearing one, you are potentially saving lives. That's good.

When there is an issue, you should look at the negatives and positives for both sides. The anti-mask tantrum throwers are potentially exposing others to a disease if they're wrong. The pro-mask crowd, even if they're wrong, aren't harming anyone.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Appeal to Authority is usually appeal to false authority (e.g. listen to celebrity advice on anything)

Though in this case Appeal to Authority has become "oh yeah well my WHO bureaucrat 'scientist' > your independent practicing scientist!" based on the assumption that being part of an alphabet agency makes one more reliable

 

[ChikN10der]

Science changes over time. Yes, sometimes they get it wrong, but to be arrogant enough to claim you know something they don't about a subject they've devoted their lives to studying, especially when they have solid evidence to back it up, is really retarded.

And look at Pascal's wager when it comes to masks.

Let's say that they don't work. By wearing one, you don't do any harm. Yeah, you bought a $10 mask that you wash every night, but no one gets hurt. By not wearing one, you still come out even (maybe up $10 because of the mask cost).
Now, let's say that they do work. By not wearing one, you are potentially putting many people in danger of dying of a virus. That's pretty bad. By wearing one, you are potentially saving lives. That's good.

When there is an issue, you should look at the negatives and positives for both sides. The anti-mask tantrum throwers are potentially exposing others to a disease if they're wrong. The pro-mask crowd, even if they're wrong, aren't harming anyone.

Pascal's wager is also fallacious, which I think you actually understand, as you don't profess to being a super religious christian.

The pro mask crowd are hurting people, both directly by assaulting people, and indirectly by going along with unreasonable and unsupported demands from politicians who make decisions based on pleasing retards like yourself.
Also, you're the same people who support the lockdowns, which have killed more people than corona, and didn't prevent any corona deaths anyway.

On top of all that, by going along with an obviously false narrative of your vaunted "experts" you're making it less likely that anyone will trust them in the future, in case they need the public to do something real.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Pascal's wager is also fallacious, which I think you actually understand, as you don't profess to being a super religious christian.

The pro mask crowd are hurting people, both directly by assaulting people, and indirectly by going along with unreasonable and unsupported demands from politicians who make decisions based on pleasing retards like yourself.
Also, you're the same people who support the lockdowns, which have killed more people than corona, and didn't prevent any corona deaths anyway.

On top of all that, by going along with an obviously false narrative of your vaunted "experts" you're making it less likely that anyone will trust them in the future, in case they need the public to do something real.

Everything you don't like is a fallacy. I get it.

You are the one who throws a temper tantrum when asked to put on a mask. To anyone who isn't a manbaby like you, it isn't doing any harm.

 

[ChikN10der]

Everything you don't like is a fallacy. I get it.

You are the one who throws a temper tantrum when asked to put on a mask. To anyone who isn't a manbaby like you, it isn't doing any harm.

Yes yes everyone's throwing a tantrum but you.

This thread is about twitter censoring one of your precious experts though.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Yes yes everyone's throwing a tantrum but you.

This thread is about twitter censoring one of your precious experts though.

I dunno, you're the one who throws a tantrum when asked to wear a mask. Pretty funny how my neighbor's five year old son is less of a baby than you

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

To anyone who isn't a manbaby like you, it isn't doing any harm.

Unless, of course, your cardiovascular system is already under strain and you develop hypercapnia and/or acidemia as a result of rebreathing the c02 trapped in your mask (I did some research). For somebody who play-acts at being rational you sure like to lean into generalizations.

 

[Thomas Talus]

It might be useful to distinguish between the effectiveness of the masks themselves and the effectiveness of mask mandates as a policy. I.e., there's an obvious physical mechanism by which the mask lowers the amount of droplets spread into the wider environment, but there's no observable correlation between the introduction of policies requiring near-universal adoption and subsequent declines in observed infection rates/hospitalizations/deaths.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Unless, of course, your cardiovascular system is already under strain and you develop hypercapnia and/or acidemia as a result of rebreathing the c02 trapped in your mask (I did some research). For somebody who play-acts at being rational you sure like to lean into generalizations.

Your mask doesn't trap CO2 in. CO2 is really small. I do intense cardio sessions at the gym with a mask on. I am the Hulkster, but if I can do that, you can put on a mask when you go to Walmart.

How is it that masks don't keep in a virus, which is a lot larger than CO2, but they do keep CO2 in? I never got a straight answer from the anti-maskers about that

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

Science changes over time. Yes, sometimes they get it wrong, but to be arrogant enough to claim you know something they don't about a subject they've devoted their lives to studying, especially when they have solid evidence to back it up, is really retarded.

"The Scientists whose lives are consistently filled with dead-ends and failures are smarter than you, they've devoted their entire lives to studying this subject, and they have solid evidence with them, so just listen to them."

"The Doctors telling you to just take more opioids are smarter than you, they've devoted their entire lives to studying this subject, and they have solid evidence with them, so just listen to them."

"The Priests proclaiming that God is just a giant flaming ball in the sky are smarter than you, they've devoted their entire lives to studying this subject, and they have solid evidence with them, so just listen to them."

"The Merchants selling you this way of getting rich quickly are smarter than you, they've devoted their entire lives to studying this subject, and they have solid evidence with them, so just listen to them."

"The Witch Doctors by the bay are smarter than you, they've devoted their entire lives to studying this subject, and they have solid evidence with them, so just listen to them."

And on, and on...

If I wanted unquestionable, yet ever-shifting dogma from apparently (but not really) monolithic institutions containing people who are axiomatically defined as "smarter than you" ("you" being used in the royal sense), then I would just start going to random churches in my area every Sunday. Considering the amount of scientific disagreements and self-contradictions still occurring over the finer details of Covid-19 and the responses to it by both bureaucratic institutions and independent scientists, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the science and "solid evidence" is not entirely "settled" on the issue.

Lay people are allowed to question and disagree with the experts and specialists in any field, as it should be. Nobody owes anybody in any field their unquestioning deference.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

Unless, of course, your cardiovascular system is already under strain and you develop hypercapnia and/or acidemia as a result of rebreathing the c02 trapped in your mask (I did some research). For somebody who play-acts at being rational you sure like to lean into generalizations.

Or in my case two cases of heat exhaustion this summer. Heat stress/exhaustion and heat strokes have been high this summer, unsurprisingly, because the mask interferes with your ability to properly use your respiratory system to cool down.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

Your mask doesn't trap CO2 in. CO2 is really small. I do intense cardio sessions at the gym with a mask on. I am the Hulkster, but if I can do that, you can put on a mask when you go to Walmart.

How is it that masks don't keep in a virus, which is a lot larger than CO2, but they do keep CO2 in? I never got a straight answer from the anti-maskers about that

I guess you missed this last night. Small wonder with the amount of replies you must get.

Just a minor quibble, since you keep bringing this up; a gas can still fill a reservoir before leaking through a permeable barrier. Balloons slowly deflate because the air trapped inside eventually leaks through the latex. Car tires slowly flatten for the same reason. The idea that all cO2 is immediately purged on each breath is a bit foolish; when I breath out with my mask on, it bellows out because of the pressure of the gases being exhaled. If it wasn't retaining the gases at all, it wouldn't do that.

If you're fit enough to go to the gym, you're probably not a COPD sufferer, or a lardo who could actually be affected by the CO2. But it's basic logic that you're breathing at least some of it back in. Also, I didn't think of this before but moisture accumulation in the pores of the fabric probably constricts airflow even more.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

I guess you missed this last night. Small wonder with the amount of replies you must get.

If you're fit enough to go to the gym, you're probably not a COPD sufferer, or a lardo who could actually be affected by the CO2. But it's basic logic that you're breathing at least some of it back in. Also, I didn't think of this before but moisture accumulation in the pores of the fabric probably constructs airflow even more.

I usually log in to 15+ replies, so it's easy to miss stuff since I usually only look at 2-3 at most

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

It might be useful to distinguish between the effectiveness of the masks themselves and the effectiveness of mask mandates as a policy. I.e., there's an obvious physical mechanism by which the mask lowers the amount of droplets spread into the wider environment, but there's no observable correlation between the introduction of policies requiring near-universal adoption and subsequent declines in observed infection rates/hospitalizations/deaths.

Because there is a limited window of mask effectiveness. Basically, if you are standing in a room with someone sneezing and coughing then you'll probably get infected with or without masks. Alternatively, if you pass by someone asymptomatic on the street, then you probably wont get infected with or without masks.
The number of situations where wearing a mask will stop you from getting the virus when going without would have got you infected is limited.

Unfortunately, its a lot more complex and challenging equation to try and figure out than "did X material impede Y particle in controlled experiment?"

 

[ChikN10der]

Censoring a bunch of scientists also really doesn't have anything to do with "trusting science". Science is a process, not a religion. The main part of the scientific process is trying something, then figuring out why you were wrong.

No part of the scientific method includes "check expert opinions". Otherwise science would never change or fix stuff that's wrong.

 

[Buster O'Keefe]

If you're fit enough to go to the gym, you're probably not a COPD sufferer

If you have COPD, wearing a mask is not your biggest risk factor as the minute.

 

[ChikN10der]

If you have COPD, wearing a mask is not your biggest risk factor as the minute.

Yeah if you have copd I hope you're protecting yourself with more than a useless cloth mask if you actually expect to encounter possibly infected people.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

If you have COPD, wearing a mask is not your biggest risk factor as the minute.

Sure, but it's still a variable that people need to take into consideration when talking about the risks vs. benefits of wearing a mask. My main point is this: waving off any suggestion that masks trap CO2 is asinine. They don't retain 100% of expelled C02, but they certainly retain enough that you're bound to breathe it back in. How much that harms an individual is down to a multitude of variables and may not be very much at all but again, pretending that it doesn't happen flies in the face of easily observable facts.

 

[Bad Gateway]

There is literally no need for y'all to keep fisting your own asses with both hands over this. Any county worth caring about has their own COVID dashboard by now. Go look at the numbers and draw your own conclusions.