2020 U.S. Presidential Election - Took place November 3, 2020. Former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden assumed office January 20, 2021.

[Gehenna]

1. Lots of "typos" and errors all benefitting Biden
2. The refusal to allow Trump representatives into polling places
3. These constant pauses when Trump's shown to be leading
4. Pennsylvania Democrats' comments about how Trump won't win seem a bit suspicious to say the least
5. Sharpiegate

I don't know if it's strictly illegal or fraudulent, but the media companies clearly worked together to give Biden states early and refused to report Trump victories until hours later. Why would they all do that? To make a case for Biden miraculously winning by a hair after they find some miracle votes, which would mean this was all planned out from the beginning.

1: Possibly, but since they are solved at the time they are moot points.
2: This one works.
3: Suspicious, works.
4: ALSO works
5: This one is a bit of a non-starter, since it will be remedied on a hand recount.

 

[Tomboy Respecter]

How can we make that method more secure?

Getting rid of it. You don't need to vote. It's a right but the state doesn't need to facilitate it to you should you find yourself unable to do it. This is solely because we cannot find a secure way to do mail in voting, unless you do it in the office of a country clerk and they give it the director of elections directly, sealed, certified and secure. Otherwise, don't bother voting. Mean, but I like having a sane democracy.

 

[Gehenna]

Getting rid of it. You don't need to vote. It's a right but the state doesn't need to facilitate it to you should you find yourself unable to do it. This is solely because we cannot find a secure way to do mail in voting, unless you do it in the office of a country clerk and they give it the director of elections directly, sealed, certified and secure. Otherwise, don't bother voting. Mean, but I like having a sane democracy.

Alternatively, make more hoops for it. Require it to be submitted to a clerk rather than merely mailed, presenting ID at the time.

 

[The Great Autismo]

1: Possibly, but since they are solved at the time they are moot points.
2: This one works.
3: Suspicious, works.
4: ALSO works
5: This one is a bit of a non-starter, since it will be remedied on a hand recount.

I can't help but think those hundreds of thousands of votes at the same time being dismissed as a "typo" was totally on purpose, and I think an investigation would reveal that. I don't know the technicality of the charge "Fraud" but that shit ain't right.

And Sharpiegate isn't really the end of the world or anything, but I think there's a case to be made that someone, somewhere was organizing that if it turns out it was widespread and condensed in heavy Trump areas. By itself it's nothing, but add it with everything else, it shows that a lot of planning went into all of this and a lot of fuckery happened on Tuesday night.

 

[FAQnews Correspondent]

Alternatively, make more hoops for it. Require it to be submitted to a clerk rather than merely mailed, presenting ID at the time.

Honestly, people who can't even be bothered go go a couple blocks to vote shouldn't even be voting,

 

[Gehenna]

I can't help but think those hundreds of thousands of votes at the same time being dismissed as a "typo" was totally on purpose, and I think an investigation would reveal that. I don't know the technicality of the charge "Fraud" but that shit ain't right.

And Sharpiegate isn't really the end of the world or anything, but I think there's a case to be made that someone, somewhere was organizing that if it turns out it was widespread and condensed in heavy Trump areas. By itself it's nothing, but add it with everything else, it shows that a lot of planning went into all of this and a lot of fuckery happened on Tuesday night.

Here's the thing. I agree, but the courts don't care. The courts will want evidence of present fraud, if the alleged content has an extent remedy or has BEEN remedied... they don't care.

Honestly, people who can't even be bothered go go a couple blocks to vote shouldn't even be voting,

The active military, severely ill, and very old are the main users of Absentee ballots. These people can't just go a few blocks and vote.

 

[FAQnews Correspondent]

Here's the thing. I agree, but the courts don't care. The courts will want evidence of present fraud, if the alleged content has an extent remedy or has BEEN remedied... they don't care.

I suppose sharpiegate as an argument can only be used to force a recount, right?

The active military, severely ill, and very old are the main users of Absentee ballots. These people can't just go a few blocks and vote.

At least for that, they have to specifically request absentee ballots, but mass-mailing VBM is madness.

 

[JambledUpWords]

Optimistic, I know, but if Biden wanted to do the one decent thing, he should concede before even more fraud is found out. The longer this goes on, the worse his party looks. All of this fraud is pointing towards Democrats and it would be better to save face than to have it go to the Supreme Court and be decided that way.

 

[ConfederateIrishman]

How did they think they could get away with it? Maybe they thought the American public thinks like in twitter where everyone treats Harry Potter like it's a history book.

"I know we broke several Hogwarts laws but it was necessary to defeat Voldemort!"

"Bravo! 100 extra points for being stunning and brave!"

"Yes, yes, well done, Trump. Well done, Republicans."

"HOWEVER"

 

[Marchesa of the Vast]

Yeah, that's nice, but if those back-dated votes were already mixed in with the main count, they can't be traced back to be invalidated.

This whole fight against fraud is happening two weeks too late. It needed to happen like that PA SCOTUS case, where they ordered suspicious ballots to be segregated out so they can consider the issues later and remedy it. Republicans should have got court rulings in place ahead of time in every swing state saying late or day-of ballots would be segregated out for inspection. Before election day I said the postmark stamps needed to be seized at close of business 11/3 and swapped out for visibly different stamps; this is why.

Winning a court case saying "they shouldn't have done that" doesn't matter if you can't fix the thing that was done.

But guys don't worry, ACB is totally gonna side with Trump.

 

[Gehenna]

I suppose sharpiegate as an argument can only be used to force a recount, right?

Correct! If Arizona refused a recount request, it could be sued in a lawsuit to demand one.

At least for that, they have to specifically request absentee ballots, but mass-mailing VBM is madness.

Complete fucking agree.

 

[Tismguide]

Couldn't irregularities be used to say that there needs to be a closer look into these results?

Could they also throw out ballots that arrived after election day?

Dems demanded that Jill Stein retract her recount suit in Wisconsin and Michigan in 2016 when Trump started pulling even more ahead. I wonder if they were worried about it revealing some deep rot.

That's fair. All I'm saying is that they should present the data and give an argument as to why they have a good reason to believe there is fraud. Not just the statistical anomalies, but the refusal to have pollsters do their job in their precincts and the current refusal to have the vote counters supervised by a representative of the Trump campaign.

Exactly. Trump needs to prove that "undocumented" ballots were counted in violation of the relevant law in the given jurisdiction. The statistical anomalies are the smoke, but he has to prove the fire.

Do you know what “court stacking” means, or are you just throwing out every corporate media talking point you know and seeing what sticks?

McConnell votes against changing the voting majority rules that Reed crammed through and warned that it would come back to bite the DNC. He filled vacancies as was his legal right, if you have a problem with that, blame Harry Reed. They “stopped complaining” because the alternative was to sit around like dribbling idiots and wait for a Democrat majority Senate to ream them

As for SCOTUS, it’s the same fucking deal; point me to the actual statue or line in the constitution that says that what Trump and McConnell did was wrong.

You can think Florida in 2000 was dirty all you like, some may even agree, but there was a lawsuit where both sides had the chance to gather evidence and make their case. Trump has every right to do that now; it blows my mind how people can say “politicians are corrupt, just deal with it” while simultaneously screaming and pointing fingers Trump tries to fight back and get a little transparency.

There used to be something of a gentleman's agreement against "stacking", and court appointments were largely uncontroversial until Bork. When the Dems played the nuclear option, they permanently eroded a political norm. Not illegal, just a change to the unwritten rules that the GOP is now perfectly happy to play by. Expect to see a lot more of this when Biden passes an EO declaring insufficient replacement migration a national emergency or the GOP adding another 9 SCOTUS justices to balance the 9 Biden adds (if he gets the senate).

This erosion is bad because these norms grease the wheels and let you get things done, but not breaking laws. I'd make an analogy to malicious compliance in terms of how only following the law makes it impossible to make progress.

 

[Gehenna]

But guys don't worry, ACB is totally gonna side with Trump.

ACB wasn't on the courts when Harvey here suggests things should have happened. In fact, he is leaving out that the majority of these places have liberal courts and as Roberts proved he'd have left any court order they made to stand.

What harvey says SHOULD have happened COULDN'T have happened.

 

[Thebag$$$]

The simple answer is "There is no good answer", it was wrong on the face of it and even CNN had the damn thing as a tossup. You are asking to explain someones stupidity, but you can't explain it beyond "They are stupid"

i didn't expect american news outlets to be so irresponsible. thank you for the explanation.

 

[Tour of Italy]

Pennsylvania court order being overturned was fake, NBC just straight up lied:

FAKE NEWS: NBC falsely claims that Pennsylvania Supreme Court overruled Trump victory on vote count observers​

https://archive.md/cbO23

So there’s a standing court order to allow observers. All good right?

Haha, nope.

They’re still not letting anyone in and the police aren’t coming down to enforce the order:

https://archive.md/oHLbn

The best part about the new twitter warnings is that they’ve either given up or have realized that the evidence for things like this is so overwhelming that they’d never get away with it.

*Has “election security” tag -> Twitter wants you to think it’s bullshit even if it’s true.

*Does not have “election security” tag -> Absolutely true to the point where they can’t even cover it up.

 

[The Wicked Mitch]

Some serious money to be made for those bold enough to go for Trump right now

 

[StarkRavingMad]

Optimistic, I know, but if Biden wanted to do the one decent thing, he should concede before even more fraud is found out. The longer this goes on, the worse his party looks. All of this fraud is pointing towards Democrats and it would be better to save face than to have it go to the Supreme Court and be decided that way.

Not rating you optimistic, because I'm in agreement that this is what Biden should do.

The sad thing is that, hey, these are career politicians. There's no way he's going to do that, even if copius amounts of fraud are proven 110% ... Biden knows he won't suffer any consequences from it.

 

[verissimus]

I know it's already been said, but it might as well be repeated. The entire situation is FUBAR. There's pretty much no reason for anyone to accept almost any of the election results beyond those where one candidate pretty much had no chance or ran unopposed. I mean really, why should anyone want to concede? I mean after all, there surely must be some missing ballots to be counted right?

 

[iRON-mAn]

1: Possibly, but since they are solved at the time they are moot points.

So, errors like the 1/1/1900 or dead people voting, would that just force a recount rather than be evidence of fraud?

Also, this might seem like a dumb question, and isn't directed specifically at you @Gehenna but can I assume that recounts are done by different people than who did the original counts? Especially if there's a suspicion of fraud?

 

[Harvey Danger]

At this point, you might as well go down swinging. And for all Trump's faults, he's definitely someone who'll do that. Same as all the slightly crazy people like Bannon, Giuliani, and Gorka around him actually.

One of his main faults is he doesn't strategize for this kind of stuff ahead of time. He was trying to win through turnout beating the margin of fraud, and he underestimated the fraud.

I have no doubt Trump will go down fighting. I have serious doubts he knows how to fight this stuff. He's a genius at media manipulation and marketing, not navigating state level election laws and rooting out corruption. The people around him are good at what they do, including law generally, but I'm not seeing the immediate demands for ballot invalidation that a hardcore fighter should have filed by now.

Mark my words and screenshot this: the minute the counting is "over", those suspicious ballots will disappear into incinerators and will never be seen again.

The election officials will shrug and say "oh no, with all these millions of pieces of paper, a few went missing! It happens, it's a clerical error, no biggie". When Giuliani's gang finally gets around to dramatically announcing a lawsuit to throw some out, when the re-counters and inspectors finally get access to the stash, all that will be left are some legit ballots for them to scan and grumble over. You'll get half a dozen election officials slapped on the wrist for "irregularities", and the DNC will reimburse them the $2000 fine via cash in a brown paper bag.

The ballots that are currently running up the reported numbers will never see the light of day after Saturday of this week. Their totals will never be removed unless you find a court ballsy enough to actually invalidate the election itself.

I hope Trump proves me wrong, but he should be doing some democracy-threatening shit that makes his own side nervous by now. He's still playing nice. I don't just want a fighter, I want one who goes for the kill.