2020 U.S. Presidential Election - Took place November 3, 2020. Former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden assumed office January 20, 2021.

[MrJokerRager]

For a bit of explanation, in order to convince legislature to go with the MAD option of direct elector selection, he needs to have a specific series of events and arguments laid out.

1: A strong legal case for overturning ballots, requiring a full audit, AND that an audit alone is insufficient. (We are here)
2A: The supreme court refuses to take it
OR
2B: The supreme court takes it, but either rubberstamps Biden or softballs the solution and fails to explain a damn good reason why.
3: Alongside the strong case and failure of SCOTUS additional argumentative must be made for why ALL results must be wholly suspect. Dominion is your gun there.


By setting all this up early rather than waiting, the Trump campaign appears to be focusing on ensuring 2B CANNOT occur. 2A is VERY unlikely given the nature of events here, and so all the focus is on ensuring that SCOTUS feels a lot of pressure to give the case a serious look.

I like how it's so hard to "prove" the fraud when in other shitholes, it's easy to prove. Americans are in deep denial and deserve to be cucked further by democrats if this issue is not addressed.

 

[CrippleThreat]

I like how it's so hard to "prove" the fraud when in other shitholes, it's easy to prove. Americans are in deep denial and deserve to be cucked further by democrats if this issue is not addressed.

I'd love to live in a world where showing the hockey stick graph would be enough, but we live in this world, in this glorious USA.

By setting all this up early rather than waiting, the Trump campaign appears to be focusing on ensuring 2B CANNOT occur. 2A is VERY unlikely given the nature of events here, and so all the focus is on ensuring that SCOTUS feels a lot of pressure to give the case a serious look.

What really sucks here is having to make SCOTUS give a damn. And I remember someone a few pages back said something to the effect of SCOTUS just giving Biden the win, just so a Trump win doesn't obliterate the country. We talked about Justice Breyer too, further back in the pages as well; his jurisprudence is akin to consequentialism. Put two and two together and, he'll never fathom ruling on the right - Drumpf's win will bring chaos.

 

[Gehenna]

I'd love to live in a world where showing the hockey stick graph would be enough, but we live in this world, in this glorious USA.


What really sucks here is having to make SCOTUS give a damn. And I remember someone a few pages back said something to the effect of SCOTUS just giving Biden the win, just so a Trump win doesn't obliterate the country. We talked about Justice Breyer too, further back in the pages as well; his jurisprudence is akin to consequentialism. Put two and two together and, he'll never fathom ruling on the right - Drumpf's win will bring chaos.

I was the one to mention that. Breyer's jurisprudence is consequentialims, but its specific. Aimed at ensuring the most public participation in the system. He could fathom siding with Trump if he can be convinced of the severity this would have.


Here's a white pill and black pill all at once. The Supreme Court has been broken and politicized for a long time. The obvious black pill element aside, it also means that politicians have long known how to game and serve towards an end goal. And there is nobody in politics who knows how to use the levers of power quite like Mitch McConnell.

 

[Kknd]

Doubtful, but if it were true, I wouldn't be surprised. Even then, if there's any truth to these rumors at all, it's probably a case of Pence encouraging Trump to cut his losses if they can't gain any real wins before the 14th of December.

Pence is a literal traditionalist and a relic of the old "Neocons and Fundies" GOP paradigm of the Reagan and Bush years. But he's more inclined towards the Bible Belt aspect than the neocon aspect.

The fact he's not an explicit neocon means he could probably still keep his career as a state-level politician and unlike Trump, is less of a lightning rod (no pun intended) for Woke Leftist hatred since he's much less of a public figure.

Still, Pence strikes me as the kind of guy who will stick by Trump as long as he can but will keep his head down no matter which way this goes down.



I think Al Gore would be the kind of person who'd go charging into the sandbox but then cut his losses for the PR boost if things quagmired as badly as they did under Bush.

The Europeans would probably have a more favorable view of him since he's less of an ornery redneck than Bush was and wasn't openly tied to the Religious Right. Even if the fundies were an exclusively American thing by 2000, they were commonly cited as a reason why the rest of the world hated America in the Bush years and why the more secular and well-spoken Obama was so beloved by the EU despite the fact he was every bit a corporatist and globalist as Bush was.

Granted, I'm not entirely sure what the media coverage of Bush and the American Religious Right was like in the UK and Europe back then. I'm sure @Pointless Pedant and @Judge Holden can probably give a good view of the British perspective while @Lemmingwise can give a mainland European view.

I do know American media talking heads often cited the fundies at the time as a major focal point of anti-American sentiment but I'm honestly unsure how much of that was legit versus how much was typical 2000's atheist sperging or progressives invoking what had become a common boogeyman by that point

I'm not any of those guys but basically the euro press have and will echo the opinion of your most left news organization. So basically CNN with more communism and more atheism.

The opinion of Bush was that he was a bumbling idiot and anything clever he did was at the behest of Carl Rove who was basically satan himself. He was hated the same way Trump is but from a smaller segment of the press. Trump hate is universal in the press and mainstream.

Most euros think americans are stupid because even if 90% of the entertainment they watch is american they only see "normal" americans in Jerry Springer and man on the street segments on talk shows where the host is purposely finding idiots. Should they stuble into a tourist it's a loud demanding boomer that has no idea that US service culture isn't universal.

The numbers about how only a fraction of americans could find Iraq on the map received wide circulation. As did the still image of Bush holding those binoculars backwards.

The fundie part of your politics was viewed as completely alien and retarded I assume mostly in protestant countries. They were a reason for a lot of smugness and disdain.

There is also no clear understanding among most people that there is a stark difference in cultures between states but you guys share that dialed up to eleven about europe.

Note that I can only speak about my own country and its shared cultural sphere with a few neighbors, the british and maybe AP and Reuters.

 

[Sekirodiealot]

So much doom and gloom now

 

[Gehenna]

So much doom and gloom now

A lot of people conceptually knew this was an uphill battle, but are only recently realizing the actual extent.

 

[CarlosDanger]

I mentioned this before, the dominion stuff isn't playing to overturning ballots. Its playing to increase suspicions and distrust amongst the state legislatures.

I am sure they'll throw it into the lawsuits, but I'd be very surprised if they were used as a pillar for anything. Dominion works better as a way to put direct elector selection on the table, and in turn to pressure SCOTUS to make an actual decision rather than cucking towards the 'least disruptive' option of rubberstamping Biden.

You nailed it. Trump doesn't have to overcome the votes, he has to throw enough evidence and enough doubt out there so the state legislatures can't certify the results.

 

[Gehenna]

You nailed it. Trump doesn't have to overcome the votes, he has to throw enough evidence and enough doubt out there so the state legislatures can't certify the results.

He doesn't have to, but that is the primary goal. Direct elector selection is a -nuclear- option. That being said, because it is nuclear it acts as a fantastic counterweight to the soft power of the left. One of the big threats of the left is that if they don't get their way, they are gonna riot. This might make some more manipulable judges more willing to side with them to avoid the worse chaos. By slapping that nuke onto the table, the Republicans go "I see your spinelessness, and one up you by making it -far- worse if you do that.."

 

[Bartleby]

So much doom and gloom now

Said doom and gloom are always from the same few posters, and they've consistently shown that they don't have a complete grasp of how any of this works- which is fair considering the relative lack of precedent, but it makes it difficult to take seriously. If @Gehenna and @HumanHive start dooming considerably, then that's probably cause for concern, though even then, you have to be wary of what information is actually legitimate, considering how many posters also link unverified sources, misleading sources, or no source at all. People just need to be patient, generally- it's difficult to accept, but this could still take another 4 weeks, and it's only been 2 weeks so far.

 

[KooksandFreaks]

I'd love to live in a world where showing the hockey stick graph would be enough, but we live in this world, in this glorious USA.


What really sucks here is having to make SCOTUS give a damn. And I remember someone a few pages back said something to the effect of SCOTUS just giving Biden the win, just so a Trump win doesn't obliterate the country. We talked about Justice Breyer too, further back in the pages as well; his jurisprudence is akin to consequentialism. Put two and two together and, he'll never fathom ruling on the right - Drumpf's win will bring chaos.

The Supreme Court is a joke. Last and ultimate authority in the land? Corporations are people too!

Soon, they'll be ruling that you MUST be vaccinated. Just you watch.

 

[Gehenna]

Said doom and gloom are always from the same few posters, and they've consistently shown that they don't have a complete grasp of how any of this works- which is fair considering the relative lack of precedent, but it makes it difficult to take seriously. If @Gehenna and @HumanHive start dooming considerably, then that's probably cause for concern, though even then, you have to be wary of what information is actually legitimate, considering how many posters also link unverified sources, misleading sources, or no source at all. People just need to be patient, generally- it's difficult to accept, but this could still take another 4 weeks, and it's only been 2 weeks so far.

I have long since swallowed the blackest pill imaginable and come to terms with it. I consider Trump's chances low and the impending civil war a near certainty. That being said, I am still interested in how this plays out, and happy to talk the strategy of both sides and what they intend to do to leverage a win for their side.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Its a fake bullshit tweet.

Didn't even have the courtesy to be a real bullshit tweet.

 

[Nathan Higgers]

"BuT AnTiFa IsN'T rEaL" though...

umm... okay, so, like, ummm, Antifa literally means antifascist, so, like, its totally real.
But it's not an organization, like, how can it be? it's like, um, literally in the name!
Do you see org at the end of the name? Like, like, does antifa pay taxes? Like, um, does it have a leader? Oh, no? okay.
Then its not a coordinated organization and thus it's unable to "meddle" in elections.

Antifa is like, literally, like an adjective. If you are not antifascist, you are fasicst!

 

[Zero Day Defense]

And a bigger difference in behavior. Graham is on the Judiciary committee for fuck’s sake, and they’re claiming he just openly asked somebody to fix an election like a common mobster.

On the other hand, Schiff is on the House Intelligence committee and brazenly lied about Hunter's laptop being Russian in origin.

 

[KooksandFreaks]

So much doom and gloom now

Don't you worry too much, Seki. Everything's gonna be fine.

Personally, I like to cheer my friends and family with some fine food, drink and music. How do you do it?

 

[Bartleby]

I have long since swallowed the blackest pill imaginable and come to terms with it. I consider Trump's chances low and the impending civil war a near certainty. That being said, I am still interested in how this plays out, and happy to talk the strategy of both sides and what they intend to do to leverage a win for their side.

Well, to clarify, I consider dooming to be when you consider a positive outcome of something unpredictable to either be impossible or implausible to the point of it being a fantasy, and I don't think the outcome of this election is predictable enough to make that claim for either side. It helps when your reasoning doesn't boil down to "bad things keep happening, therefore bad things will continue to happen", but something more substantial than that, even if it leads to a similar conclusion- and when that happens, is when I consider the dooming to be justified, which would probably happen in the scenario that SCOTUS cucks out. I'd like to be wrong about this, but due to the inherent controversy and not being used in so long, if it isn't endorsed by the SCOTUS, I think it's then reasonable to assume that direct appointment falls under that level of implausibility I mentioned before- to me it only functions as a threat currently, and hopefully we won't ever have to see if they follow up on it.

 

[Iceland Heavy]

umm... okay, so, like, ummm, Antifa literally means antifascist, so, like, its totally real.
But it's not an organization, like, how can it be? it's like, um, literally in the name!
Do you see org at the end of the name? Like, like, does antifa pay taxes? Like, um, does it have a leader? Oh, no? okay.
Then its not a coordinated organization and thus it's unable to "meddle" in elections.

Antifa is like, literally, like an adjective. If you are not antifascist, you are fasicst!

Apply this line of 'logic' to 'White Supremacy' and watch the angry NPC chittering start.

 

[A_Callow_Youth]

Apply this line of 'logic' to 'White Supremacy' and watch the angry NPC chittering start.

Have some old Reddit salt from when Antifa got declared a terrorist organization.

 

[CrystalHead]

God I can just imagine how good the reddit salt will be if trump can pull this off.

 

[Dr J]

And I remember someone a few pages back said something to the effect of SCOTUS just giving Biden the win, just so a Trump win doesn't obliterate the country.

Giving Biden the win in an obviously dirty election would obliterate the country. SCOTUS, either way, is going to have to get its hands dirty.

Didn't even have the courtesy to be a real bullshit tweet.

The tweet itself may be bullshit but, as for the substance of the tweet, what do we know really? We know, or at least strongly suspect, that Democrats cheat in their stronghold areas to keep their power. It could well be that, without rigging, New York, New Jersey, California, Illinois and others are actually strongly red areas and, were it to come out, we'd start seeing massive preference cascade.
I'd be willing to believe Minnesota and New Mexico, in the very least, are rigged blue. New Mexico because Trump lost it in 2016 by such a narrow margin (and probably would have won it without Aleppo Johnson to gum up the works). Minnesota, same again and in addition Al Franken won his senate seat there because they 'found' a box of ballots in the trunk of a car and Project Veritas has on video Somalians actually selling ballots to rig the race for Ilhan Omar. Fraud is endemic there