Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[FatalTater]

Meanwhile in Valparaiso Indiana

https://www.reddit.com/r/Indiana/comments/jufdhv/downtown_valparaiso_covid_party_1114/

https://archive.vn/csMrU

 

[Brain Power]

We're finally reopening the frontiers to foreigners, and it's all thanks to the people who's forced to stay inside! What happens now with the native citizens? Why, you still have to follow muh rules! You don't want to go back to total lockdown again, do you?

Gobierno anuncia reapertura gradual de fronteras para extranjeros a partir de este lunes

El gobierno anunció la reapertura a partir de este lunes de las fronteras para el ingreso de extranjeros no residentes...

www.biobiochile.cl

 

[Just wandering]

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/legault-offers-moral-contract-for-christmas-suggests-quebecers-self-isolate-before-and-after-holidays-1.5195522

In quebec, the curretn minister allow christmas partying. The main reason is probably that forbidding it will be unenforcable

 

[Otterly]

Scientists are fine (though as corruptible and ego-driven as anyone else). But the science cult, that will lecture anyone and everyone for being a "science denier" based on their programming is frustrating as Hell.

I loathe the science is god lot. Science is a PROCESS not a set of dogmas. Good science asks weird questions, is prepared to change its mind and slaughters the sacred cows. Good science should be willing to re examine its evidence and do a u turn or trash a previously held position if needed. It is NOT a set of sacred tenets, or an absolute opinion on anything. It can be wrong. It changes and it never pronounc a final opinion
The idiots use it like they use the news - to cherry pick facts that will shore up their own position. Like the ‘it’s science!’ Lot who deny there are two sexes. Idiots, and dangerous ones at that.

What I find really disheartening is the public distrust now of those of us in the research business. I can see what’s going to happen - there’s going to be a pushback against the doomsayers in SAGE and if this vaccine has a high side effect rate they’re going to be baying for blood. I don’t blame them, but it smarts a bit when you’ve spent the last twenty years trying to cure horrible genetic diseases for the public good. People used to respect us, and I suspect they will want us swinging from lampposts next year.

 

[Mepsi Pax]

Consider this in regard to those SCIENCE! types:

Most people go to (crappy) public school for their primary education, few receive any kind of "advanced" early education, but many of them then go on to college where they are taught advanced concepts. The problem with this is that they have no understanding of the fundamentals, the very basics of critical thinking, rigorous scientific method, empiricism, or anything else that forms the foundation for the sciences. They are not thinkers so to speak, they lack the frame to form their own independent concepts, worldviews, or to modify the information they're taught through a first principles approach (or even an experimental approach).

So they go to college where they are taught complex subjects whole, and they essentially memorize what they're told. Whether what they're told is even correct varies (more so in the lib arts spaces), but they form a sort of relationship with knowledge that relies on authority and memorization. Because of this, their ability to THINK is entirely limited to the framework of what they've memorized. Sometimes, an authority will distribute more information, and they will at best synthesize it poorly with their existing knowledge, or at worst compartmentalize it entirely.

Smart and creative people are affected less by this systemic problem, but that's a very small portion of the population and even they have to be taught some kind of critical thinking. Personally, I never finished a degree, but my early education was top notch. Using what I was taught well before high school has allowed me to work with unfamiliar concepts and to synthesize my own original meta-frames to form an understanding of the world around me. I'm not the smartest person, but I've very rarely run into people (including highly educated ones) who really surprised or interested me with their ideas/thinking (as opposed to their specific knowledge of a particular field). In fact, in conversation I usually find that comprehensive analyses or theories that I consider pretty obvious are novel to most. It's almost like this is an unintended consequence of a highly specialized and over-complicated society.

 

[Fliddaroonie]

Haven't said this in a while, but I appreciate everyone's inputs. Believe everyone reading and participating has learned something over this TEN months. Jesus, we all though this shit would be history by 4 July.

Believe this thread has done a great deal of good, not just for the straight information provided but for the mutual support. WE know what's really going on. Others are finally waking up. Like to think people use info from here to help them throw off the shackles of the fearmongerers.

Haven't been posting much these days. I'm just fine, these days feeling great due to a recent change in meds. Pro tip: listen to what the doctor says, that's why they are doctors. Been working on a personal project which takes time, but I enjoy greatly.

I also want to thank the mods for their tolerance of my double-posting sometimes, and their support overall. Also appreciate everyone who has helped the thread stay on a reasonable track and not degenerate into total shitposting.

Let me be the first to wish all a Happy Thanksgiving. And yes, we can all find something to give thanks for.

Completely agree, frendo. There's lots of stuff on here I might not agree with, but everyone contributing is, for the most part, up for rational, civil discussion and that pure warms mah cockles. I never thought a shitposting forum for LOLOing at nutters on t'Internet would be such a vital method of civil discourse, but here we are in Clown World.


I'm not in the USA bit I wish everyone a wonderful Thanksgiving, may you all get completely rammed with food and enjoy doing whatever you like. Personally, as the days are still getting shorter and the nights longer, I will light some candles, get fuckfaced and drink a toast to each and every one of you.

 

[Kiwi Lime Pie]

It seems Walz may have overstepped by ending youth sports, especially hockey.

Michigan's Governor Whitmer is seen the same way after her orders from last week paused all organized sports. As I might have mentioned, a couple of fall high school sports were set to conclude last week and football had three weeks left prior to her orders. Needless to say, many people involved with those sports are miffed that there was no sort of consideration for concluding those sports -- especially those that would have concluded last week. I've even seen people say that they'd be in favor of the games being resumed without fans just so that the remaining fall sport post-seasons can be concluded and not indefinitely shelved/potentially cancelled as they were and presently are.

Someone also brought up the point that individual workouts are still permitted (apparently?) with distancing but teams can't practice together even if they were properly distancing in their practice venue. Once again, it's these inconsistencies that leave normies confused about what is/isn't permitted and what they can/can't do over the next 2 and a half weeks.

In utter amazement, I was able to go to my scheduled Doctor visit today. (Just the run of the mill yearly physical and blood work to make sure nothing's wrong and/or catch things early.) I scheduled it last November and I thought there would be no way in hell they'd keep the appointment.

With last week's new orders for Michigan, I thought my physical would be in jeopardy. Fortunately, it was scheduled for the day before restrictions took place and my doctor's office has been consistently telling patients they're remaining open for everyday medical concerns and needs.

It was encouraging seeing all the staff clean down everything. The second anything moved or was touched orderlies were spraying things down and cleaning.

As I shared previously, my doctor had me wash my hands before I left the examination room. Even if this was solely to reduce their liability and offer a defense if a patient were to contract COVID and blame them for it ("Gee, they didn't do anything unsafe during the exam and we had them wash their hands when it was over."), it's nice to see them doing what they can to keep everyone involved as safe as reasonable possible.

The endless use of guilt-tripping and other appeals to emotion is ultimately going to result in people hardening their hearts just out of defence.

The other thing that comes into play is that the more people are guilt=-tripped the more indifferent they become. Many peopel who feel they're damned if they do and damned if the don't will chose the don't because it's the path of least resistance for them even if it later proves to be the wrong decision.

Let me be the first to wish all a Happy Thanksgiving.

Same to you and anyone else celebrating. If nothing else, we have each other here.
=====
It looks like it could be behind a paywall, but the Detroit Free Press had a peculiar article in today's paper. It discussed the push-back associated with Michigan's restrictions. The vibe I got is that the author couldn't decide which of these stances to take:

• The push-back is understandable and inevitable as more people become desperate the more their livelihoods and personal finances become negatively impacted, or
• Those pushing back are selfish, causing more harm than good, and will likely leave Governor Whitmer no choice but to encourage the state's DHHS (Department of Health and Human Services) to extend the current restrictions indefinitely.

This is thunkful given the Free Press' predominantly-liberal viewpoint on current happenings and its pro-Whitmer/anti-Trump editorials.
(Edited for clarity)

 

[PurpleEater]

Speaking of science:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w.pdf

 

[Clockwork_PurBle]

It seems Walz may have overstepped by ending youth sports, especially hockey. People are finally protesting and at least one restaurant is open against the Tyrant’s orders.
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Lifetime Fitness also wants real, legitimate data to support the Tyrant closing gyms again.
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This...does put a smile on my face.

 

[Vault Boy]

Some news on Europe. the Police in a bunch of countries is close to breakingpoint after weeks of demonstrations.
3rd time they had to use water cannons to keep a rowdy crowed at bay in berlin, Slovakian Police gave up last week in Preßburg, Italia and France are burning(like always)
and Greece is close to a right wing coup.

Even the most patient person will eventually snap if they keep getting pushed into a corner.

Politicians and "experts" need to tread carefully, otherwise these protests might turn into full blown revolts.

 

[AveraDiane]

Sheriffs in a few NY counties have refused to enforce the 10 people per household gathering limit and Cuomo calls them arrogant (archive).

Good on them. The more people stand up to this, the better.

 

[Super-Chevy454]

Apparently every Southern California county sheriff either refuses to enforce Fuhrer Newsom's curfew or are just going to "educate you" (I.E. give you a spiel about the curfew) if deputies encounter you like LA County.

Also NGL, there are a lot of days where I plan to take a rest day from running but push myself to go anyway to rustle some jimmies with the mask nazis.



I was watching an old movie on Oliver Cromwell that seemed scarily relevant with the civil war between the Cavaliers and Roundheads. I can totally see Boris Johnson kicking off the 2nd English Civil War with his bullshit mask mandates.

I got one thing to said to Boris Johnson: Do it!

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Consider this in regard to those SCIENCE! types:

Most people go to (crappy) public school for their primary education, few receive any kind of "advanced" early education, but many of them then go on to college where they are taught advanced concepts. The problem with this is that they have no understanding of the fundamentals, the very basics of critical thinking, rigorous scientific method, empiricism, or anything else that forms the foundation for the sciences. They are not thinkers so to speak, they lack the frame to form their own independent concepts, worldviews, or to modify the information they're taught through a first principles approach (or even an experimental approach).

So they go to college where they are taught complex subjects whole, and they essentially memorize what they're told. Whether what they're told is even correct varies (more so in the lib arts spaces), but they form a sort of relationship with knowledge that relies on authority and memorization. Because of this, their ability to THINK is entirely limited to the framework of what they've memorized. Sometimes, an authority will distribute more information, and they will at best synthesize it poorly with their existing knowledge, or at worst compartmentalize it entirely.

Smart and creative people are affected less by this systemic problem, but that's a very small portion of the population and even they have to be taught some kind of critical thinking. Personally, I never finished a degree, but my early education was top notch. Using what I was taught well before high school has allowed me to work with unfamiliar concepts and to synthesize my own original meta-frames to form an understanding of the world around me. I'm not the smartest person, but I've very rarely run into people (including highly educated ones) who really surprised or interested me with their ideas/thinking (as opposed to their specific knowledge of a particular field). In fact, in conversation I usually find that comprehensive analyses or theories that I consider pretty obvious are novel to most. It's almost like this is an unintended consequence of a highly specialized and over-complicated society.

Yeah so to put that in laymens terms, the education systems teaches people to memorize and how to take tests, not how to process information.

Though your point about "compartmentalization" is on-point.
The biggest example of this in reference to COVID is how they (even people I went through the same damn undergrad with) believe that 1) COVID can transfer no lasting immunity but also that 2) a vaccine is what's needed to stop the virus; holding these beliefs simultaneously without even so much as a forethought that the two are contradictory.

Further compartmentalized insanity:
1) Humans are over-populated.
2) Darwin's theory of Natural Selection is proven science.
3) We must stop people from dying of COVID-19 at all costs.
All at once, without even a drop of doubt that one of those beliefs is invalidated by the other two.

 

[JambledUpWords]

Yeah so to put that in laymens terms, the education systems teaches people to memorize and how to take tests, not how to process information.

Though your point about "compartmentalization" is on-point.
The biggest example of this in reference to COVID is how they (even people I went through the same damn undergrad with) believe that 1) COVID can transfer no lasting immunity but also that 2) a vaccine is what's needed to stop the virus; holding these beliefs simultaneously without even so much as a forethought that the two are contradictory.

Further compartmentalized insanity:
1) Humans are over-populated.
2) Darwin's theory of Natural Selection is proven science.
3) We must stop people from dying of COVID-19 at all costs.
All at once, without even a drop of doubt that one of those beliefs is invalidated by the other two.

Additionally, even if you don’t die from Corona, you’re guaranteed to die of something else eventually. Due to paranoia about the virus and people avoiding cancer screenings and getting blood work done, we are probably going to see a rise in deaths from cancer and other related diseases later on. Of course, lockdowns, the media, and totalitarian leaders won’t be blamed for this negligence. Honestly, lockdowns are worse than the virus itself, seeing as the effects of them are more far-reaching and harder to recover from.

 

[Saint Alphonsus]

Apparently every Southern California county sheriff either refuses to enforce Fuhrer Newsom's curfew or are just going to "educate you" (I.E. give you a spiel about the curfew) if deputies encounter you like LA County.

San Diego County's sheriff is 100% on board with lockdowns and is allegedly responsible for the killings at Ruby Ridge.

 

[The Nothingness]

Personally I am hoping my Thanksgiving dinner is peaceful. It will only be my parents, brother, and me. My parents take everything from the television, except Fox News, and NPR as gospel (so it is Orange Man/Republicans Bad, Democrats Good, Wear A Mask, Trust The Science, etc.) and they are in the age range of those most susceptible. Even though my brother and I do not share the same views as our parents he is a bit of a hypochondriac given his own choice when it comes to health (ironically he seems to have gotten that trait from our dad).

Much like @The handsome tard I was to be good, kind, and civil but this year has left me dishearten when those in power blatantly show they don't give a shit about those less fortunate. I rarely express my thoughts to my family so if we we're able to have a pleasant dinner maybe it will brighten my spirits.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

I loathe the science is god lot.

Can't have a cyberpunk dystopia without people having a cult-like reverence of Science®. But yeah, "science" is just a fancy way of saying "knowledge gained through testing" - that's all it is.

(those in the "scientism" cult may also think that "science" is "metaphysical naturalism" - secular humanist atheist philosophy)

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

What I find really disheartening is the public distrust now of those of us in the research business. I can see what’s going to happen - there’s going to be a pushback against the doomsayers in SAGE and if this vaccine has a high side effect rate they’re going to be baying for blood. I don’t blame them, but it smarts a bit when you’ve spent the last twenty years trying to cure horrible genetic diseases for the public good. People used to respect us, and I suspect they will want us swinging from lampposts next year.

It's bad enough as it is, and if that vaccine doesn't work perfectly, it's going to get even worse. And by "worse" I mean "get your fucking measles vaccine" because this is going to breath endless life into the anti-vaccination movement. That's compounded by all the people not taking their kids to the doctor to get their shots because they're told "the hospitals are almost at capacity" (funny how they're never are 100% full, but always "almost" full). Watch measles vaccination rates plummet and a couple of epidemics of that tear through a children's hospital and kill lots of infants and cripple plenty more for life. Oh yeah, and don't forget the amount of tard babies being born because measles cripples fetuses in the womb. I predict that there will be years in the 2020s where measles in the United States and most developed countries kills more children under 5 than COVID-19 did, and that's not even getting into the long-term side effects which are far more common in children with measles than with WuFlu.

All these childhood diseases are nasty shit to contract no matter what age you are, and thanks to government stupidity with their vaccination policy, we're almost certainly going to see a massive rise in it.

I was watching an old movie on Oliver Cromwell that seemed scarily relevant with the civil war between the Cavaliers and Roundheads. I can totally see Boris Johnson kicking off the 2nd English Civil War with his bullshit mask mandates.

Isn't Boris Johnson like as right-wing as a non-Muslim can get in Britbongistan without being arrested for hate speech given the other side is full of communists? Can't have a civil war when the other side is even worse.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Watch measles vaccination rates plummet and a couple of epidemics of that tear through a children's hospital and kill lots of infants and cripple plenty more for life. Oh yeah, and don't forget the amount of tard babies being born because measles cripples fetuses in the womb.

They'll just chalk it up as COVID-19 doing all that and quietly list measles as the "comorbidity".

 

[verissimus]

Some more stiffening resistance : https://www.theblaze.com/news/new-york-business-owners-stand-up-to-official

Skip to the video below instead of reading the article.