Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

[sperginity]

At any rate I'm not feeling too optimistic about Eva. If she's still even mostly in there, her life is absolute hell now, so to be honest if there's no hope of recovery it really isn't the better option anyways.

there is no hope of recovery. Children have increased brain plasticity, but there are limitations. If its not fixed within a year its almost certainly permanent.

 

[New & Improved Username]

Would it sit better if "wrongful life" was replaced with the word "malpractice"? Because that's what it was.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

I kind of hate this overall trend of speculating or diagnosing long-dead people as autistic with little to no proof. I get that autism is the trendy developmental disability now (and even today it's less shameful to have an autistic child than just a run-of-the-mill retard), but most of the information isn't nearly detailed enough to make any assumptions beyond just retarded.

I think the reason “autism” has become so trendy and used is because the same kids now labeled “severely autistic” were simply called retarded or mongoloids for hundreds of years.

The main criteria seems to be no facial or physical characteristics that manifest as obvious signs of retardation (like DS features or other facial deformities that are common with various forms of congenital afflictions associated with retardation).

Basically the labeling has just changed, not humans. Autism is a far preferable label to parents than retardation. Hell, we aren’t even allowed to use the word retard now because it’s been deemed a slur so I can only imagine what it was like for doctors when it came to using “mental retardation.” (Idiot and mongoloid had already been shelved decades ago.)

Given George was the child of very wealthy titled English parents, who appeared physically normal, I’m sure he would be deemed “autistic” in the modern era.

 

[Bananasaurus]

I think it's more that poor people tend to lack education and have more conservative religious beliefs, especially in the US.

This. At least the couple in question was smart enough to use contraception instead of fucking like rabbits without caring about the consequences. Most latinos are catholic and still very religious, so an abortion was obviously off the table. Who cares if your child has 60+ years of suffering to look forward to, abortion is murder and your immoral soul is way more important than the well-being of your own child. It's not like Daddy God will literally forgive you for all your sins anyways as long as you say sorry enough.
I guess the fact that catholicism really fetishizes suffering doesn't help much, either. Lots of religious folk think their barely surviving children have a special connection with God because they suffer like Jesus, and that makes their parents special too! Some also throwing away their entire lives to care for someone who doesn't know they exist will earn them brownie points with the big boss in the sky. See also: Audrey Santo, Kayli Whistler.

 

[MinkyMooMoo]

Who cares if your child has 60+ years of suffering to look forward to, abortion is murder and your immoral soul is way more important than the well-being of your own child. It's not like Daddy God will literally forgive you for all your sins anyways as long as you say sorry enough.

Not sure if you were punning or mistyped, but immoral soul is the perfect way to put that, so bravo. PL, but I am one of those people who always assumed I would never be willing to abort, pro-choice for everyone, but that was my choice. This thread is one of the factors that changed that. Its sick to force your child to suffer for asspats. /pl

Slightly defending them, but it doesn't seem to be a disorder that would have been obvious before birth. A quickie google says its diagnosed most often in infancy or childhood, so this couple may have assumed they were having an unplanned but generally healthy baby like their previous two. I feel like it'd be an easy matter to say "Yes I didn't plan this, but what's one more kid?" especially if you AREN'T prochoice and then be confronted with a child that is beyond any expectations.

 

[Miss Misery]

This. At least the couple in question was smart enough to use contraception instead of fucking like rabbits without caring about the consequences. Most latinos are catholic and still very religious, so an abortion was obviously off the table. Who cares if your child has 60+ years of suffering to look forward to, abortion is murder and your immoral soul is way more important than the well-being of your own child. It's not like Daddy God will literally forgive you for all your sins anyways as long as you say sorry enough.
I guess the fact that catholicism really fetishizes suffering doesn't help much, either. Lots of religious folk think their barely surviving children have a special connection with God because they suffer like Jesus, and that makes their parents special too! Some also throwing away their entire lives to care for someone who doesn't know they exist will earn them brownie points with the big boss in the sky. See also: Audrey Santo, Kayli Whistler.

The effects of PMG vary from person to person, but this child seems to have a relatively mild case. She's in third grade, has an IQ of 70 - she'll be able to function in society better than someone with Down syndrome and she's likely to have a fulfilling life. So it won't be 60+ years of suffering, but she will need support as she's older and her parents aren't around to help any longer.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

I think the reason “autism” has become so trendy and used is because the same kids now labeled “severely autistic” were simply called retarded or mongoloids for hundreds of years.

The main criteria seems to be no facial or physical characteristics that manifest as obvious signs of retardation (like DS features or other facial deformities that are common with various forms of congenital afflictions associated with retardation).

Basically the labeling has just changed, not humans. Autism is a far preferable label to parents than retardation. Hell, we aren’t even allowed to use the word retard now because it’s been deemed a slur so I can only imagine what it was like for doctors when it came to using “mental retardation.” (Idiot and mongoloid had already been shelved decades ago.)

Given George was the child of very wealthy titled English parents, who appeared physically normal, I’m sure he would be deemed “autistic” in the modern era.

Someone in this thread said they’ve met children who were diagnosed ‘autistic’ but did have facial features characteristic of particular disorders, just ones less recognizable than DS, and that a lot of low fuctioning ‘autistics’ actually have another disorder. Sorry for not being able to find the post.

 

[A Detachable Penis]

Someone in this thread said they’ve met children who were diagnosed ‘autistic’ but did have facial features characteristic of particular disorders, just ones less recognizable than DS, and that a lot of low fuctioning ‘autistics’ actually have another disorder. Sorry for not being able to find the post.

That may have been me. I've seen quite a few autistic boys with Prader-Wili facial features, but no actual diagnosis. All of them were mid to low functioning (with, ironically, the nonverbal one being one of the less intellectually disabled). A key giveaway is when the kids faces legitimately look nothing like the parents (but do look like their affected peers).

Until recently, there wasn't a lot of sequencing done on speds but now DNA sequencing is cheap as dirt. Some disorders have health implications so the fact that we don't screen those with ID is annoying.

 

[keyboredsm4shthe2nd]

It was pretty damning that they filmed over six hours of video but had less than five minutes of proof to work with. At any rate I'm not feeling too optimistic about Eva. If she's still even mostly in there, her life is absolute hell now, so to be honest if there's no hope of recovery it really isn't the better option anyways.


I kind of hate this overall trend of speculating or diagnosing long-dead people as autistic with little to no proof. I get that autism is the trendy developmental disability now (and even today it's less shameful to have an autistic child than just a run-of-the-mill retard), but most of the information isn't nearly detailed enough to make any assumptions beyond just retarded.

back then autism did require being borderline retarded, if not completely retarded, only recently did it encompass everything from "I don't like this color and can't make friends" to "pants shitting sped". It's a catch all term for abnormal social or intellectual behavior.

 

[MysticMisty]

back then autism did require being borderline retarded, if not completely retarded, only recently did it encompass everything from "I don't like this color and can't make friends" to "pants shitting sped". It's a catch all term for abnormal social or intellectual behavior.

It did (see Chris), but it also had (and still has) very specific requirements: difficulties in communication and restricted, repetitive patterns, interest, or activities. Not the dumb shit pushed on social media by self diagnosed snowflakes, we're talking weird, very specific shit. Like doing literally nothing but spinning a wheel all day and screaming when someone suggests another activity. That's full-blown autism, and unless something like that is noted in historical documents for historical retards, then there's not nearly enough information to make any further diagnoses.

 

[JackDonaghysSecretLover]

I posted "horrifying" because that nurse had to be way beyond negligent! A flu shot and a Depo shot do not look the same on any level!

I don't think the nurse mixed up the shots; the article says she was administering flu shots so she probably assumed the woman was there for one.

 

[A Detachable Penis]

back then autism did require being borderline retarded, if not completely retarded, only recently did it encompass everything from "I don't like this color and can't make friends" to "pants shitting sped". It's a catch all term for abnormal social or intellectual behavior.

To be fair, it's difficult to measure IQ for nonverbal peeps. I've met my fair share who were either borderline or average intelligence. People assume kids who are nonverbal are total speds, but one should presume competence (till there's no doubt they're stupid as all hell). Nowadays, more and more are learning AAC or just outright learning to write. The best stories are when the 12 or so year old just starts writing on their own or typing. Like, ABA so shit it couldn't help them get there faster.

This is my main beef with ABA - communication should be the main focus at all costs. So many nonverbal kids learn late because ABA is not rooted in modern speech path knowledge and sucks up the money that should be going towards other shit.

I've also met at least two who have/had serious speech issues that would've been much improved by a speech path, but all they got was ABA (which is not qualified to help the kid learn to pronounce). The really sad case was the one whose dad thought he wasn't all there in the head, but by all accounts the kid was average intelligence with fairly bad speech.

 

[Android raptor]

To be fair, it's difficult to measure IQ for nonverbal peeps. I've met my fair share who were either borderline or average intelligence. People assume kids who are nonverbal are total speds, but one should presume competence (till there's no doubt they're stupid as all hell). Nowadays, more and more are learning AAC or just outright learning to write. The best stories are when the 12 or so year old just starts writing on their own or typing. Like, ABA so shit it couldn't help them get there faster.

This is my main beef with ABA - communication should be the main focus at all costs. So many nonverbal kids learn late because ABA is not rooted in modern speech path knowledge and sucks up the money that should be going towards other shit.

I've also met at least two who have/had serious speech issues that would've been much improved by a speech path, but all they got was ABA (which is not qualified to help the kid learn to pronounce). The really sad case was the one whose dad thought he wasn't all there in the head, but by all accounts the kid was average intelligence with fairly bad speech.

Yeah everything I've heard is that ABA is fucked and there are much better alternatives these days. Unfortunately ABA is often the only thing aid will pay for, which is shitty.

Even kids that are legit retarded deserve to be treated well and not harmed, and are often capable of understanding more than people realize. That's why it's so fucked for even speds to be told by their parents how much the resent them and wish they were dead and yelled at and shit.

The fact that disabled kids are at such a high risk of abuse and powerlevel reasons is why I tend to assume first that kids with behavior issues are being mistreated by someone. If not by their parents then by their teachers or aids (in my experience most special ed teachers are terrible people).

Speaking of, would self righteous sped teachers making an ass of themselves be on topic for this thread? Because I definitely see them sometimes, sped teachers who have massive savior complexes who treat their students as objects that exist to pad their egos and being patronizing AF.

 

[A Detachable Penis]

Yeah everything I've heard is that ABA is fucked and there are much better alternatives these days. Unfortunately ABA is often the only thing aid will pay for, which is shitty.

Even kids that are legit retarded deserve to be treated well and not harmed, and are often capable of understanding more than people realize. That's why it's so fucked for even speds to be told by their parents how much the resent them and wish they were dead and yelled at and shit.

The fact that disabled kids are at such a high risk of abuse and powerlevel reasons is why I tend to assume first that kids with behavior issues are being mistreated by someone. If not by their parents then by their teachers or aids (in my experience most special ed teachers are terrible people).

Speaking of, would self righteous sped teachers making an ass of themselves be on topic for this thread? Because I definitely see them sometimes, sped teachers who have massive savior complexes who treat their students as objects that exist to pad their egos and being patronizing AF.

I think we've had some bring up teachers before so I don't see why not. I think a lot of autism activism has been misplaced in the critique of ABA. Focus less on the abuse and you don't get whiny emotional parents. Focus more on the fact that its an archaic and cheap misdirection from much better serives.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

To be fair, it's difficult to measure IQ for nonverbal peeps. I've met my fair share who were either borderline or average intelligence. People assume kids who are nonverbal are total speds, but one should presume competence (till there's no doubt they're stupid as all hell). Nowadays, more and more are learning AAC or just outright learning to write. The best stories are when the 12 or so year old just starts writing on their own or typing. Like, ABA so shit it couldn't help them get there faster.

This is my main beef with ABA - communication should be the main focus at all costs. So many nonverbal kids learn late because ABA is not rooted in modern speech path knowledge and sucks up the money that should be going towards other shit.

I've also met at least two who have/had serious speech issues that would've been much improved by a speech path, but all they got was ABA (which is not qualified to help the kid learn to pronounce). The really sad case was the one whose dad thought he wasn't all there in the head, but by all accounts the kid was average intelligence with fairly bad speech.

Could you elaborate on how ABA is bad for kids learning how to talk?

I personally would welcome posts about sped teachers.

 

[sperginity]

Could you elaborate on how ABA is bad for kids learning how to talk?

I personally would welcome posts about sped teachers.

The author of "late talking children" talked about this some and I read the book, while I am not an expert on this specifically I think I understand the issue. According the author, if a kid is capable of more than ABA can teach, then ABA can fuck them and create a deficit in their long term language ability. There are some kids that talk late for a variety of reasons, they are children that catch up to their peers and learn language normally. It is a little unusual, but it is a significant enough number of late talking children that it is concerning. He talked about working with such a child that was originally taught with ABA, and he would only use the small number of words taught to him and then would immediately hold his hand out for a reward. He was exposed to far fewer words than he otherwise would have been since the kid spent a lot of time in the care of people who were using aba, having to break the habits formed in aba meant he had to spend a lot of extra time undoing ABA, and eventually he was able to. The author has more education in speech development than a lot of the front line workers trying to deal with kids who aren't talking, many parents will not find out the difference without getting second opinions. I don't think these programs are a bad thing for people who need them, but at some point in the obama administration they started an initiative to try and screen everyone and sign up as many people as possible for in home therapy for anyone who passes a screening for language deficit.

 

[Miss Misery]

ABA is basically Pavlovian conditioning taken a step further.

And it always reminds me of this quote from Ed Kemper: "[Herbert Mullin] had a habit of singing and bothering people when somebody tried to watch TV, so I threw water on him to shut him up. Then, when he was a good boy, I'd give him peanuts. Herbie liked peanuts. That was effective because pretty soon he asked permission to sing. That's called behavior modification treatment."

 

[Android raptor]

ABA also teaches compliance above all else, so kids get programmed to just do whatever an adult tells them. When combined with the ridiculously high rate that disabled people are abused, it gets really ugly really fast (bonus if you combine it with the fact that disabled people still often arent taught even basic shit about bodily autonomy, sex ed, consent, etc).

I think I've said before but in my experience sped teachers are usually either patronizing assholes with savior complexes or regular assholes that get off on bullying kids and know disabled kids are an easy target. Not all are like that, but in my experience most fall in one of those two groups. I think it's a field that just tends to attract shitty people, or create them by burning them out (and also providing them with shitty training).

Huge powerlevel but one of my old teachers eventually got shitcanned for putting a 7 year old in a trash can. I wasn't all that surprised when I heard the news story because that seemed pretty on brand for what I remembered about her (she also had the exact same hairstyle she had 15+ years ago in her mugshot, which was wild. She basically looked the exact same as she did when I was a kid, only her face was old and haggard. Fun stuff).

 

[MysticMisty]

I think I've said before but in my experience sped teachers are usually either patronizing assholes with savior complexes or regular assholes that get off on bullying kids and know disabled kids are an easy target.

Honestly, I think this describes most teachers, especially for elementary school. They know they can gain instant respect from many kids just by being older and bigger without having to ever actually do anything to earn it. So they can easily bully and be just plain mean under the guises of discipline and being strict. Hell, as I mentioned in a different topic, when Giga Pets and Tamogotchis were huge, teachers would regularly confiscate them, but refuse to return them as promised at the end of the year because they'd been conveniently "lost". Schools are where mini dictatorships thrive.

 

[AnOminous]

Honestly, I think this describes most teachers, especially for elementary school. They know they can gain instant respect from many kids just by being older and bigger without having to ever actually do anything to earn it. So they can easily bully and be just plain mean under the guises of discipline and being strict.

The problem is especially in populations that actually need it, teachers who can't do this get bullied by the kids, especially ones who know they can just scream up a storm and any kind of normal discipline is basically illegal. So any teacher who lacks the capacity to make the little fuckers' lives miserable if they don't behave gets completely run over.