Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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Standard childhood vaccinations like diptheria, measles, mumps, rubella, polio, etc are considered mandatory. Why is the Covid one being added to the list so scary? (Other than it practically being untested.)
But it's not practically untested. Moderna, for one, has spent years working on a MERS-CoV mRNA vaccine. In 2020 they changed the focus to SARS-CoV-2, and started human trials (practical testing) in March. Over 15,000 people have received the vaccine, it works, and there are no serious side effects. Maybe some will appear when you scale up deployment to the millions, but I really doubt the public health cost will be greater than the cost of not vaccinating the population (e.g. about 237,000 excess deaths and almost 870,000 laboratory-confirmed hospitalizations so far, with masks and lockdowns). Unless the FDA reviewers find a misplaced decimal point, I think getting vaccinated is almost certainly safer than not. Maybe not for children, I don't think that's been studied yet, but among adults definitely.

To answer your question, human beings are terrible at judging risk, so they fall back on rules of thumb like "something new is dangerous" or "I can't trust people in authority." They will rely on these rules even if the status quo is more dangerous than the new thing, or the information provided by the authorities is verifiably correct (or at least close enough).[1] We rely on these rules of thumb, and then we assert control by taking or refusing to take some action based on the rules; this feels very reasonable and it's comforting to look back and imagine that we handled a dangerous situation appropriately.

[1] We saw this with the doomers, who insisted Corona-chan would kill us all and it was Donald Drumpf's fault; and we see it with the anti-vaxers, who insist Vax-chan will kill us all and it's Tony Fauci's fault.
 
Good god, these people acting like they're at the fucking Somme or some shit.
"300,000 people died at the Somme, and nearly that many have died of the virus in America alone. Stop being so ignorant"-These people, probably.

I know, the world population was about 1/4th its current number then, and the Somme was a single battlefield in a huge war, but do you think they give a shit about perspective?



Holy shit, they've turned "Don't kill grandma" from a meme into an actual talking point now.



I wonder if they realize that they are teaching kids to lie to them. Obviously that's rhetorical, and of course not.

It's like zero tolerance policies where a kid gets suspended for being "involved in a fight" when a group of bullies kick his ass; they are just teaching the victim to hide for fear of double punishment.
I don't know about that, given how the West is abandoning the "high trust society" model in favour of embracing the global average, it's probably good to teach kids a little discretion early on. It'll prepare them for when their own country becomes as corrupt and ass-backwards as the rest of the world (with some exceptions). Otherwise they'll end up like conservatives, assuming people they deal with are acting in good faith and not knowing what hit them when their opponents, well-schooled in diversity, import the advanced fuckery that develops in low-trust societies because the rules are just white patriarchal constructs designed to keep everyone else down anyway.
 
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RTE was forced to apologize, but you don't see anybody coming after them or harassing them for not complying completely. On the other hand, if it was the other way around, the people at the funeral would be forced to apologize endlessly.

Sinn Fein also released a statement saying that anybody can resign if they don't agree with "mandatory vaccines" and everything else they believe in after one of their TD's was openly sceptical about the vaccines.
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I wonder if their desire for equality extends to the Protestant population of Southern Ireland?
 
There's more than you might think. Without powerleveling, I can confirm there are speakeasys of all kinds going on right now.
Of all the things from the 1920s to make a comeback, I never thought speakeasys would be in vogue.

What's next, the return of Al Capone style criminal empires and another economic depression?
 
There's more than you might think. Without powerleveling, I can confirm there are speakeasys of all kinds going on right now.
In my own neighborhood, there's a house three doors down that has been hosting parties of roughly 20-50 people at least three nights a week since June, and I've long suspected they're charging admission. To their credit, they do a good job at keeping things under control, so IDGAF (plus, I don't live next door).

On the next block over, there's a house full of young guys, some of whom are in a band, and who have friends who are also musicians. On Friday and Saturday nights, they hold extended jam sessions in their garage, and they and their guests smoke a shitton of weed and empty a keg of beer. I am sure they request donations to their noble cause. They are, of course, noisier and messier than the party house, but again--IDGAF because I don't have to live next door.

And then there are all the other one-off house parties and other socially-undistanced gatherings that happen around here. My neighbors tend to be young, and thus among those least likely to die of Covid, and they've never fully submitted to the lockdown and restrictions on gatherings. There have always been the usual parties, barbecues, etc. But starting in June--when it became clear that rioting was totally permissible even if house parties weren't--the partying noticeably increased, and specific houses have become regular party houses.

I'm surprised the other neighbors haven't resorted to calling the cops, but then again, this is an ultra-progressive town, where we're all supposed to be in favor of defunding the police, and to call the cops for any reason is to support fascism and systemic racism. It's got to be a terrible dilemma for the Mask Nazis, whose first instinct is to call the cops, but they've had it drilled into their heads since late May that All Cops Are Bastards and the police should be defunded, so they're stuck doing nothing. Not that calling the cops would do any good anyway, given that they are quitting in droves, the exodus shows no sign of slowing, and they are understaffed as a result.
 
I'm surprised the other neighbors haven't resorted to calling the cops, but then again, this is an ultra-progressive town, where we're all supposed to be in favor of defunding the police, and to call the cops for any reason is to support fascism and systemic racism. It's got to be a terrible dilemma for the Mask Nazis, whose first instinct is to call the cops, but they've had it drilled into their heads since late May that All Cops Are Bastards and the police should be defunded, so they're stuck doing nothing. Not that calling the cops would do any good anyway, given that they are quitting in droves, the exodus shows no sign of slowing, and they are understaffed as a result
Let me guess, some of these people or their guests are mask nazis in their daily life and want you to believe from their social media they are totally cereal about the ultra-deadly pandemic and want a China-style lockdown nationwide.
 
Let me guess, some of these people or their guests are mask nazis in their daily life and want you to believe from their social media they are totally cereal about the ultra-deadly pandemic and want a China-style lockdown nationwide.
In my experience these types are only serious about it because they're "working " from home or they've been put on furlough pay and are getting more money than they would on welfare to do fuck all.

When the money stops flowing I guess we'll see how much they love being ordered to stay home and do fuck all.
 
"You probably killed people"
One could say the same of the regular flu, or any other normal disease that has a small mortality rate. Either she's one of those "influencers" who knows the coof is a nothingburger yet wants to help keep people perpetually afraid, or she really thinks the coof is a deadly superplague because of "influencers'.
 
One could say the same of the regular flu, or any other normal disease that has a small mortality rate. Either she's one of those "influencers" who knows the coof is a nothingburger yet wants to help keep people perpetually afraid, or she really thinks the coof is a deadly superplague because of "influencers'.

So she is either a retard or a corrupt retard

Got it

In my experience these types are only serious about it because they're "working " from home or they've been put on furlough pay and are getting more money than they would on welfare to do fuck all.

When the money stops flowing I guess we'll see how much they love being ordered to stay home and do fuck all.

When the money stops flowing, thats where "Ze Great Reset-o" comes in to save the day.

And like Mittens Squad says "This is where the real game begins"
I'm surprised the other neighbors haven't resorted to calling the cops, but then again, this is an ultra-progressive town, where we're all supposed to be in favor of defunding the police, and to call the cops for any reason is to support fascism and systemic racism. It's got to be a terrible dilemma for the Mask Nazis, whose first instinct is to call the cops, but they've had it drilled into their heads since late May that All Cops Are Bastards and the police should be defunded, so they're stuck doing nothing. Not that calling the cops would do any good anyway, given that they are quitting in droves, the exodus shows no sign of slowing, and they are understaffed as a result.

I already said it but I will repeat myself...They dont want cops PER SAY...they want their own special secret KGB/Gestapo type police that serves them and them only.

Police are supposed to protect and serve everyone equally and, believe me, they internally hate that (its almost like their talk about equality is only skin deep)
 
Edit: The comment section to the below article is fucking terrifying. Makes this doctor look like a moderate. Wish I could figure a way to grab that.

It’s Time to Scare People About Covid
Our public messaging about the virus should explain the real costs — in graphic terms — of catching the virus.

Elisabeth Rosenthal
By Elisabeth Rosenthal
Dr. Rosenthal is a contributing Opinion writer.

Dec. 7, 2020, 5:00 a.m. ET

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Desiree Rios for The New York Times
I still remember exactly where I was sitting decades ago, during the short film shown in class: For a few painful minutes, we watched a woman talking mechanically, raspily through a hole in her throat, pausing occasionally to gasp for air.

The public service message: This is what can happen if you smoke.

I had nightmares about that ad, which today would most likely be tagged with a trigger warning or deemed unsuitable for children. But it was supremely effective: I never started smoking and doubt that few if any of my horrified classmates did either.

When the government required television and radio stations to give $75 million in free airtime for antismoking ads between 1967 and 1970 — many of them terrifyingly graphic — smoking rates plummeted. Since then, numerous smoking “scare” campaigns have proved successful. Some even featured celebrities, like Yul Brynner’s posthumous offering with a warning after he died from lung cancer: “Now that I’m gone, don’t smoke, whatever you do, just don’t smoke.”

As the United States faces out-of-control spikes from Covid-19, with people refusing to take recommended, often even mandated, precautions, our public health announcements from governments, medical groups and health care companies feel lame compared to the urgency of the moment. A mix of clever catchphrases, scientific information and calls to civic duty, they are virtuous and profoundly dull.

The Centers for Diseases Control urges people to wear masks in videos that feature scientists and doctors talking about wanting to send kids safely to school or protecting freedom.

Quest Diagnostics made a video featuring people washing their hands, talking on the phone, playing checkers. The message: “Come together by spending time apart.”

As cases were mounting in September, the Michigan government produced videos with the exhortation, “Spread Hope, Not Covid,” urging Michiganders to put on a mask “for your community and country.”

Forget that. Mister Rogers-type nice isn’t working in many parts of the country. It’s time to make people scared and uncomfortable. It’s time for some sharp, focused terrifying realism.

“Fear appeals can be very effective,” said Jay Van Bavel, associate professor of psychology at New York University, who co-authored a paper in Nature about how social science could support Covid response efforts. (They may not be needed as much in places like New York, he noted, where people experienced the constant sirens and the makeshift hospitals.)

I’m not talking fear-mongering, but showing in a straightforward and graphic way what can happen with the virus.

From what I could find, the state of California came close to showing the urgency: a soft-focus video of a person on a ventilator, featuring the sound of a breathing machine, but not a face. It exhorted people to wear a mask for their friends, moms and grandpas.

But maybe we need a P.S.A. featuring someone actually on a ventilator in the hospital. You might see that person “bucking the vent” — bodies naturally rebel against the machine forcing pressurized oxygen into the lungs, which is why patients are typically sedated.

(Because I had witnessed this suffering as a practicing doctor, I was always upfront about the trauma with loved ones of terminally ill patients when they were trying to decide whether to consent to a relative being put on a ventilator. It sounds as easy as hooking someone to an I.V. It’s not.)

Another message could feature a patient lying in an I.C.U. bed, immobile, tubes in the groin, with a mask delivering 100 percent oxygen over the mouth and nose — eyes wide with fear, watching the saturation numbers rise and dip on the monitor over the bed.

Maybe some P.S.A.s should feature a so-called Covid long hauler, the 5 percent to 10 percent of people for whom recovery takes months. Perhaps a professional athlete like the National Football League’s Ryquell Armstead, 24, who has been in and out of the hospital with serious lung issues and missed the season.

These P.S.A.s might sound harsh, but they might overcome our natural denial. “One consistent research finding is that even when people see and understand risks, they underestimate the risks to themselves,” Mr. Van Bavel said. Graphs, statistics and reasonable explanations don’t do it. They haven’t done it.

Only after Chris Christie, an adviser to President Trump, experienced Covid, did he start preaching about mask-wearing: “When you have seven days in isolation in an I.C.U. though, you have time to do a lot of thinking,” Mr. Christie said, suggesting that people, “follow C.D.C. guidelines in public no matter where you are and wear a mask to protect yourself and others.”

We hear from many who resist taking precautions. They say, “I know someone who had it and it’s not so bad.” Or, “It’s just like the flu.”

Sure, most longtime smokers don’t end up with lung cancer — or tethered to an oxygen tank — either. (That, in fact, was the justification of smokers like my father, whose two-pack-a-day habit contributed to his death at 47 of a heart attack.)

These new ads will seem hard to watch. “We live in a Pixar era,” Mr. Van Bavel reflected, with traditional fairy tales now stripped of their gore and violence.

But studies have shown that emotional ads featuring personal stories about the effects of smoking were the most effective at persuading folks to quit. And quitting smoking is much harder than social-distancing and mask-wearing.

Once a vaccine has proved successful and enough people are vaccinated, the pandemic may well be in the rearview mirror. In the meantime, the creators of public health messaging should stop favoring the cute, warm and dull. And — at least sometimes — scare you.

Elisabeth Rosenthal worked as an emergency room physician before becoming a journalist. A former New York Times correspondent, she is the author of “An American Sickness: How Healthcare Became Big Business and How You Can Take It Back” and the editor in chief of Kaiser Health News.
 
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Unidentified illness hospitalizes more than 300 people in India​


(CNN)An unidentified illness has hospitalized more than 300 people in southeastern India, including one who has died, according to local officials investigating the cases.

Patients in the city of Eluru, in the state of Andhra Pradesh, reported a range of symptoms including seizures, loss of consciousness and some nausea over the weekend, said Dolla Joshi Roy, the district surveillance officer of Eluru's West Godavari District. This comes as India continues to battle the Covid-19 pandemic, with the world's second-highest number of infections. Andhra Pradesh is one of the worst-affected states, and currently has more than 800,000 confirmed cases. But Covid-19 wasn't the cause of the mass hospitalizations over the weekend.

"All patients have tested negative for Covid-19," said Roy, adding that about 180 patients have now been discharged, while the rest are "stable." The patient who died had reported similar symptoms to the others, but then had a fatal but unrelated cardiac arrest, she said. A note released by Andhra Pradesh's Health Department said that initial blood tests did not find any evidence of a viral infection, such as dengue or chikungunya, which are both caused by mosquito bites. Authorities are now testing water samples in Eluru for contamination, after all the patients were found to receive their water from a common source. Samples have been collected from 57,863 households and sent to a forensic laboratory. "The cause is still unknown but still we are doing all kinds of testing, including testing food and milk," said Roy.

Specialists from the All India Institute of Medical Sciences and a neurologist from out of state have also arrived in Eluru to conduct further neurotoxic tests, and are waiting for the results.
The Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, Y.S. Jaganmohan Reddy, visited the patients on Monday.

Remember that future roadmap from Canada that leaked and was talking about a new disease that they were referring to as Covid-21? Well, this might be it.
 
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