Opinion The world does not need more “manly men” - If a man can’t wear a dress, what can he do?

The world does not need more “manly men”


By Jacob Gelman 4 hours ago · 9 comments

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Harry Styles | Instagram

After the English singer/songwriter Harry Styles broke history as the first man on the cover of Vogue, and did it in a dress, the far right in America regarded it as an attack on traditional masculinity.

Candace Owens, in a now viral Twitter response, said that “There is no society that can survive without strong men. The East knows this. In the west, the steady feminization of our men at the same time that Marxism is being taught to our children is not a coincidence. It is an outright attack.” Owen’s statements sparked a national debate about gender roles, masculinity, and, yes, men in dresses. Most recently, Styles even commented on these remarks – posting to Instagram with the caption “Bring back manly men.”
Critics argue that the left wants to “feminize our men” and there is no society that can survive without them; making the case that it is unnatural for men to wear dresses or even act feminine. But, at the end of the day – they’re all wrong: there is no such thing as “masculinity” or “femininity” in the first place.

When most right-wingers mention masculinity, they usually mean American masculinity: dominance, a lack of emotion, ego oriented, emphasis on religion, and traditional family structures. But, they also seem to conveniently forget the multiple cultures today in which men don’t conform to their idea of “masculinity” and hold men to such constricting ideals of manhood. In many parts of the East, which Owens seemed to point to as a pillar of masculinity, American conceptions of masculinity are not the norm. In India, for example, many men wear Kurtas – long garments – which would be considered dresses in America. It is even common for men in India to show emotion and hold hands with male friends while walking together. In South Korea, it is common, even expected, for men to wear makeup while in different social situations. And, in Japan, men traditionally wore kimonos – a choice of clothing which would also mirror a dress in America. Beyond the East, though, there are still many other cultures which do not treat masculinity the same way as America’s constricted sense of what a man “should be.” Nordic countries, for example, have little separation between male and female gender roles – emphasizing the responsibility of both men and women to be modest, tender, and concerned with quality of life.

Just a few hundred years ago, our understanding of masculinity would be completely different from what was practiced. In both Britain and America, before the nineteenth century, men in high positions of power would wear large wigs, makeup, and heels – adorned by flowing and extravagant clothing choices diametrically opposed to what people like Candace Owens seem to believe is “normal.” Even George Washington, according to the logic of those opposed to the Vogue cover, was somehow wrong to wear what he did. The bigger point is this: the very idea of what it means to be “strong”, in relation to being a man, is one that is fluid and socially constructed – with no universal continuity.

Beyond that, though, the argument that men wearing dresses is somehow unethical or even “perverted” is ignorant at best and harmful at worst. There are many cultures today in which men wearing dresses is more than acceptable, and can even be considered the norm. In addition, throughout history, there have been countless societies that flip our ideas of gender and sexuality out of the window. PBS even has an interactive map showing the hundreds of gender – diverse cultures that have existed in the past and to this day, carrying with them ideas of gender expression and identity that allow for fluidity. To argue that a piece of fabric on someone’s body can be considered wrong is as logical as arguing that a certain favorite color is immoral. More than that, it demonizes entire cultures and furthers the idea that America is somehow superior and more knowledgeable than all other peoples and customs.

All in all, the idea that a man in a dress is somehow “wrong” is completely unfounded in any sense of logic. However, it shows the way American gender roles have come to control all aspects of life. People’s expression, emotion, interests, speech patterns, clothing choices, hair styles – every aspect of existence in America is policed by what we have, in the last two hundred years, constructed as “normal” for a man or woman. But, isn’t America supposed to be the freest nation on Earth? If a man can’t wear a dress, what can he do? America must work towards a reality without strict gender roles – where we allow people to exist as themselves. This includes a man in a dress who wears makeup and works in fashion as much as it includes a man with a business suit who works in finance and enjoys football. So, no, the world doesn’t need more manly men – there is no such thing as “manly.”

 
I don't see how a man wearing a dress is all that different from women wearing pants.
One is gay, faggy and disgusting, the other is just disgusting.
stereotypes are dumb and arbitrary, people should be able to do what they want.

All kidding aside, men and women are different. Most stereotypes exist in a solid grounding of biological dimorphism and what can't be explained by that have been pretty hardcoded culturally.
 
One is gay, faggy and disgusting, the other is just disgusting.


All kidding aside, men and women are different. Most stereotypes exist in a solid grounding of biological dimorphism and what can't be explained by that have been pretty hardcoded culturally.
Nah, gender stereotypes tend to be pretty arbitrary and often change over time. Case in point, pink being seen as for boys 100 years ago and blue for girls. Very few people conform to them completely either (which is part of why you have so many girls convinced they're men/NB because they aren't 50s housewife stereotypes and they've been convinced that's the only kind of woman that exists). Shit, I conform to so few myself I guarentee had I been born 10, 15 years later people would be insisting on trooning me out.

Also clothes are just fabric, imagine being mad about what kind of fabric someone else puts on their bodies.
 
I don't see how a man wearing a dress is all that different from women wearing pants. Gender stereotypes are dumb and arbitrary, people should be able to do what they want.
Women don't wear men's pants, they wear women's pants. (I've actually known guys who wear women's pants but never the opposite.)

When women wear men's clothes they end up looking just as stupid as men in dresses.

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You could cut a "dress" for men but that already exists as kilts, thawbs, kurtas, etc and most people have no problem with them.
 
Women don't wear men's pants, they wear women's pants. (I've actually known guys who wear women's pants but never the opposite.)

When women wear men's clothes they end up looking just as stupid as men in dresses.

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I own and wear pants I bought in the men's section. You must not know many butch women.

Also the women in that image look fine.
 
Women don't wear men's pants, they wear women's pants. (I've actually known guys who wear women's pants but never the opposite.)

When women wear men's clothes they end up looking just as stupid as men in dresses.




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What the fuck is that picture. They must have literally got some three button suits from the nineties lying around in the store room for the women and the men just wore their own suits for the shoot. There's no way a tailor or costume person turned out the men like that and just said lol fuck it when it came to the girls.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


Also the women in that image look fine.

They absolutely do not. They look like kids trying on adult cloths. Especially the redheaded one
 
What the fuck is that picture. They must have literally got some three button suits from the nineties lying around in the store room for the women and the men just wore their own suits for the shoot. There's no way a tailor or costume person turned out the men like that and just said lol fuck it when it came to the girls.
I haven't seen whatever episode of HIMYM it's from but it obviously must be some gag where Barney (character on the left who always wears suits) took everyone to his tailor or something.

Imagine thinking a gag suit "looks fine".
 
I haven't seen whatever episode of HIMYM it's from but it obviously must be some gag where Barney (character on the left who always wears suits) took everyone to his tailor or something.

Imagine thinking a gag suit "looks fine".
I hate that Pee Wee Herman suits are what's considered fashionable in Current Year.
 
Imagine thinking a gag suit "looks fine".
Can't say I've ever known anything or given a single fuck about fashion. One of the many gender stereotypes I don't fit.

Though forreal, I do think they look fine.
 
I don't see how a man wearing a dress is all that different from women wearing pants. Gender stereotypes are dumb and arbitrary, people should be able to do what they want.
The reason you don't see the difference is because you realize that clothes are not a physical adaptation. Clothing styles are arbitrary, and most of the people whining about dudes in dresses probably had ancestors that wore some girly ass shit (like houpelon sleeves). But, rather than accept that their grand-pappis wore some faggoty ass shit, they attach a sense of sexual identity to pieces of cloth that ultimately serve no purpose beyond hiding their junk from kids. That they can't resolve function and fashion is their problem, not yours.

Be well, and don't let these shrill homos deter you from wearing whatever the fuck you want... as long you aren't showing your shit off to toddlers.
 
The reason you don't see the difference is because you realize that clothes are not a physical adaptation. Clothing styles are arbitrary, and most of the people whining about dudes in dresses probably had ancestors that wore some girly ass shit (like houpelon sleeves). But, rather than accept that their grand-pappis wore some faggoty ass shit, they attach a sense of sexual identity to pieces of cloth that ultimately serve no purpose beyond hiding their junk from kids. That they can't resolve function and fashion is their problem, not yours.

Be well, and don't let these shrill homos deter you from wearing whatever the fuck you want... as long you aren't showing your shit off to toddlers.
Speaking of grand-pappis, wasn't it also the norm 100+ years ago for little boys to be dressed identically to little girls i.e. frilly dresses and stuff because it was easier to change diapers and shit?

The people complaining are the other side of the coin to girls who think they're a super special nonbinary trans bois because they put on a pair of men's pants and felt comfortable.
 
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I own and wear pants I bought in the men's section. You must not know many butch women.

Also the women in that image look fine.
Don't be ridiculous. Its hilarious how ill-fitting the suits on the women are. The one on the right is wearing a suit jacket a full size larger than she should be, and the look on her face says it all. The one on the left looks somewhat presentable, but her jacket still needs to be shorter in length and with the waist drawn in. Nobody is saying women can't look good in suits, only that they need to be properly tailored to fit their shape, no different from men.
 
Don't be ridiculous. Its hilarious how ill-fitting the suits on the women are. The one on the right is wearing a suit jacket a full size larger than she should be, and the look on her face says it all. The one on the left looks somewhat presentable, but her jacket still needs to be shorter in length and with the waist drawn in. Nobody is saying women can't look good in suits, only that they need to be properly tailored to fit their shape, no different from men.
Wild how people in this thread were trying to say gender stereotypes reflect reality when everyone else seems to know more about fashion than my vagina-having ass.

Wait til you hear that not only do some women prefer to wear men's clothes, they specifically prefer clothes that are baggy and don't show their shape. Maybe not suits, but Jeans, tshirts, flannels, etc.
 
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That's fine, and we'll all laugh at you being an ugly butch lesbian in ill-fitting men's clothes. Don't want to be mocked for wearing clothes that don't fit? Wear clothes that fit.
I'd rather wear clothes that are comfortable and have pockets. And have sizing that isn't completely retarded and meaningless.

Anyway clothes exist to keep you from flashing your junk at kids and freezing to death, thinking someone should be restricted to certain kinds of clothes because of the genitals they were born with is dumb.
 
Harry Styles, Ezra Miller, Jaden Smith and, and Nico Tortella are the headliners for vapid famewhores who think they are **breaking** the gender barriers bc they're ***queer***

Dressing in women's clothing does not make you any kind of revolutionary. It makes you basic. If a woman did this in the same circumstances she'd be shamed. (And i mean regular tux/suit. Not any modified stuff)
 
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