Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[The Skeptical Tomato X5]

https://twitter.com/robinmonotti/status/1344928440340930560

wtf I love Juche now!

 

[Disheveled Human]

This isn't the first example of world wide mass hysteria. The fact that it has primarily affected the closely connected media-political class is why it's so widespread.

The world has been shut down for a while its not really mass hysteria if everyone is locking down.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I would agree with you 9/10 but everyone in the world is hunkering down. No way this is a joke.

Social media has made the world more connected than ever before making mass hysteria even easier to spread. Just look at how in Africa and India they use Twitter to organize lynchings of "witches".

It isn't a joke, but it's a mass over-reaction, just like the majority of people with common sense determined in March 2020 (not looking forward to specifying which March BTW) based on the statistics that were out. It's a natural disaster and nothing we can do will stop it aside from the proverbial "nuke the hurricane". If you haven't contracted it yet, odds are very high that you will, and odds are also very high that you will survive it with zero long-term consequences. If you're under 60 you have 99.8% chance of survival and the "0.2%" is largely because of AIDS and obesity. Even if you're over 60 you are still very likely to survive with no consequences, just look at Donald Trump, a fat fuck in his 70s who eats McDonalds every day.

The goalposts were shifted that anyone who didn't overreact was declared to be committing mass murder, even though the same argument can be made that we'd "save thousands of lives" every flu season by shutting the world down for a few months and requiring people to muzzle up. Literally all these public health measures have done is delay the inevitable deaths from COVID-19 by a few weeks to a few months while causing excess death from cancer, suicide, etc. and creating a massive transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the elite.

If we'd have had a sane response, the "pandemic" would've ended a few months ago, we'd have had a normal New Year, a few million people more globally would be dead (practically all of whom will be dead of COVID-19 by 1/1/2022 BTW), billions would've been sick with COVID-19 but realized that it's just a really shitty flu bro and we'd be moving on with our lives. But mass hysteria and the unwillingness to be that leader who LITERALLY MURDERED PEOPLE ensured that we'll suffer for another year, so Happy "New" Year, enjoy 2020 Pt. 2 but without the 2.5 nice months at the start of 2020.

 

[Disheveled Human]

Social media has made the world more connected than ever before making mass hysteria even easier to spread. Just look at how in Africa and India they use Twitter to organize lynchings of "witches".

It isn't a joke, but it's a mass over-reaction, just like the majority of people with common sense determined in March 2020 (not looking forward to specifying which March BTW) based on the statistics that were out. It's a natural disaster and nothing we can do will stop it aside from the proverbial "nuke the hurricane". If you haven't contracted it yet, odds are very high that you will, and odds are also very high that you will survive it with zero long-term consequences. If you're under 60 you have 99.8% chance of survival and the "0.2%" is largely because of AIDS and obesity. Even if you're over 60 you are still very likely to survive with no consequences, just look at Donald Trump, a fat fuck in his 70s who eats McDonalds every day.

The goalposts were shifted that anyone who didn't overreact was declared to be committing mass murder, even though the same argument can be made that we'd "save thousands of lives" every flu season by shutting the world down for a few months and requiring people to muzzle up. Literally all these public health measures have done is delay the inevitable deaths from COVID-19 by a few weeks to a few months while causing excess death from cancer, suicide, etc. and creating a massive transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the elite.

If we'd have had a sane response, the "pandemic" would've ended a few months ago, we'd have had a normal New Year, a few million people more globally would be dead (practically all of whom will be dead of COVID-19 by 1/1/2022 BTW), billions would've been sick with COVID-19 but realized that it's just a really shitty flu bro and we'd be moving on with our lives. But mass hysteria and the unwillingness to be that leader who LITERALLY MURDERED PEOPLE ensured that we'll suffer for another year, so Happy "New" Year, enjoy 2020 Pt. 2 but without the 2.5 nice months at the start of 2020.

I been around through SARS-1 in 2002-03 they (government) got shook but it worked out at 8k total infected the disease died out. This one is a SARS archetype and its spreading faster then ever or so they say. Well everyone is doing the duck and cover and lock downs. Shit is already ruined so forget it and hope the vaccine works. For whatever reason the virologists over the years do not want anything to do with the SARS genome in particular. Mad Cow and Swine Flu were not a concern to them for whatever reason compared to this one.

 

[Overly Serious]

The world has been shut down for a while its not really mass hysteria if everyone is locking down.

The action taken doesn't determine whether or not it is mass-hysteria. Whether the action taken is rational or not determines that. I think it's clear that we have a perfect storm of political fear-driven policy and opportunistic advantage-taking by the media and other parties.

Fear has become the guiding principle of our countries first by leaders who are afraid of being blamed for millions of deaths and being remembered in the history books as genociders, followed by those same leaders realising they are now on the hook for the greatest economic misjudgement of our time and pinning all their hopes on a vaccine as a way to change course whilst not admitting they were wrong all along.

Followed by drug companies that stand to make literal billions from mandatory vaccination programs with no risk because the government has passed laws preventing them being sued in the event of a mistake.

Season with a media that is desperate for clicks and doom stories, plus a side of academics loving their chance in the spotlight (Neil Ferguson, Faustus Fauci, I'm looking at you) and you have everything you need for mass hysteria. That's before we even get to not implausible conspiracy theories of deliberate attempts to undermine Western economies by China. I mean, have you seen the video of the WHO director pretending that his Skype has frozen when the journalist asks him about Taiwan. You can literally see him trying to hold still whilst reaching for the disconnect button on his laptop just below view. Funniest thing I ever saw from an actual "respected" official in my life.

Yeah, I'm comfortable calling this mass hysteria at this point and I think the reasons why are apparent. You don't have to think Covid-19 isn't real or even that it isn't bad. But the reaction is not rational. Perhaps at the start when we knew less it was. But because our political class is incapable of admitting to error (justifiably or not), it no longer is.

There are only two possibilities now. Either (a) they know something we don't about it and it's way, way worse than what we think. Like it causes infertility or something. Or (b) this is a massive over-reaction from fear.

 

[Disheveled Human]

The action taken doesn't determine whether or not it is mass-hysteria. Whether the action taken is rational or not determines that. I think it's clear that we have a perfect storm of political fear-driven policy and opportunistic advantage-taking by the media and other parties.

Fear has become the guiding principle of our countries first by leaders who are afraid of being blamed for millions of deaths and being remembered in the history books as genociders, followed by those same leaders realising they are now on the hook for the greatest economic misjudgement of our time and pinning all their hopes on a vaccine as a way to change course whilst not admitting they were wrong all along.

Followed by drug companies that stand to make literal billions from mandatory vaccination programs with no risk because the government has passed laws preventing them being sued in the event of a mistake.

Season with a media that is desperate for clicks and doom stories, plus a side of academics loving their chance in the spotlight (Neil Ferguson, Faustus Fauci, I'm looking at you) and you have everything you need for mass hysteria. That's before we even get to not implausible conspiracy theories of deliberate attempts to undermine Western economies by China. I mean, have you seen the video of the WHO director pretending that his Skype has frozen when the journalist asks him about Taiwan. You can literally see him trying to hold still whilst reaching for the disconnect button on his laptop just below view. Funniest thing I ever saw from an actual "respected" official in my life.

Yeah, I'm comfortable calling this mass hysteria at this point and I think the reasons why are apparent.

I do not think in history the world has ever unilaterally shut down simultaneously think what you want but this is the most basic of red flags and should be avoided.

 

[Overly Serious]

I do not think in history the world has ever unilaterally shut down simultaneously think what you want but this is the most basic of red flags and should be avoided.

Well then it must be scenario B which is they know something about it we do not because the published statistics and cases do not support the authoritarian and economy destroying measures taken.

Or else scenario C, it's a conspiracy and the collateral damage (economic havoc and the normalization of government control over free-association and freedom of movement) is the goal.

But it can no longer be scenario A which is that this behaviour is a rational response to the published information.

--

Also, apropos to nothing, I've had this quote running around in my head all day yesterday.

Stranger: I wear no mask.
Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask!
--Robert W. Chambers, The King in Yellow.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I been around through SARS-1 in 2002-03 they (government) got shook but it worked out at 8k total infected the disease died out. This one is a SARS archetype and its spreading faster then ever or so they say. Well everyone is doing the duck and cover and lock downs. Shit is already ruined so forget it and hope the vaccine works. For whatever reason the virologists over the years do not want anything to do with the SARS genome in particular. Mad Cow and Swine Flu were not a concern to them for whatever reason compared to this one.

Because for whatever reason China took SARS seriously (unlike SARS-2), lept into action, and ended it before it could spread. I have seen this blamed on the relatively open (by CCP standards) of early 00s China compared to Xi's China. But it's too late for that strategy to work now, like almost a year too late for that.

Fear has become the guiding principle of our countries first by leaders who are afraid of being blamed for millions of deaths and being remembered in the history books as genociders, followed by those same leaders realising they are now on the hook for the greatest economic misjudgement of our time and pinning all their hopes on a vaccine as a way to change course whilst not admitting they were wrong all along.

It's ironic because one sign of great leadership is taking calculated risks for the sake of a great outcome, yet we're barely seeing any of that. Perhaps some would-be great leaders are having their hands tied by underlings, but no doubt the global political class of today is more or less totally inept and rotton.

They compared fighting the pandemic to fighting a war, yet in this "war" nearly all of our "generals" are totally incompetent and don't even act on the information received. It's an entire army full of leaders out to look good along with a few people out to loot the army for the sake of their pockets.

It makes sense how easy conspiracy theories spread now when the response based on official statistics continues to defy rationality. I guess it's because most people have faith in the system and instead of questioning that the system might be rotten decide to blame shadowy manipulators. No doubt there's some of that going on but the political and bureaucratic class being ossified and decayed (and thus really stupid) might be just as good an explanation.

I do not think in history the world has ever unilaterally shut down simultaneously think what you want but this is the most basic of red flags and should be avoided.

Because never before in history could billions of people talk to each other in real-time for free, reinforcing each other's delusions. What's your argument here? No one is denying that COVID-19 isn't dangerous, the argument has (or should always have been) that shutting down the world over a disease that kills about 0.3% of it's victims (the vast majority of whom are elderly or obese) and causes long term side effects in at most a few percent more (the vast majority of whom are elderly or obese) is not worth the consequences from doing so economically or from other public health effects.

 

[Disheveled Human]

Well then it must be scenario B which is they know something about it we do not because the published statistics and cases do not support the authoritarian and economy destroying measures taken.

Or else scenario C, it's a conspiracy and the collateral damage (economic havoc and the normalization of government control over free-association and freedom of movement) is the goal.

But it can no longer be scenario A which is that this behaviour is a rational response to the published information.

--

Also, apropos to nothing, I've had this quote running around in my head all day yesterday.

Stranger: I wear no mask.
Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask!
--Robert W. Chambers, The King in Yellow.

Let me put it this way if America did not exist the rest of the world would be doing what it is doing or planning to do. It's an international issue impacting everyone which is both good and bad. Inflation will suck but it will for everyone.

China could have contained it or at least warned us instead they spread it around and them and the W.H.O responded by saying Racism is the bigger issue and that this was no problem despite the fact China was barring people into their own homes. It is out it is everywhere and everyone is on lockdown so its fucked this new variant is the new dominate strain. Which means more heard immunity needed.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Let me put it this way if America did not exist the rest of the world would be doing what it is doing or planning to do.

So?

Mass hysteria doesn't hinge on whether or not the USA, alone, acts in a retarded way. The entire media-political class massively overreacted to a slightly more dangerous respiratory-tract infection, then perpetuated the overreaction because it was politically advantageous to do so, but also because walking it back would be an admission that they were stupid and overreacted. They are a closely-connected community of like-minded individuals, so simple peer pressure within that group is enough to generate mass hysteria there. A subsequent spread of it to the general population was inevitable, perpetuated by the politicians invoking horror stories that exist entirely in their own minds, and powered by the interconnected nature of the world.

 

[NJBear]

 

[Local Fed]

View attachment 1821202

The only thing that Kurt could beat to death is his dick to tentacle porn.

 

[Disheveled Human]

So?

Mass hysteria doesn't hinge on whether or not the USA, alone, acts in a retarded way. The entire media-political class massively overreacted to a slightly more dangerous respiratory-tract infection, then perpetuated the overreaction because it was politically advantageous to do so, but also because walking it back would be an admission that they were stupid and overreacted. They are a closely-connected community of like-minded individuals, so simple peer pressure within that group is enough to generate mass hysteria there. A subsequent spread of it to the general population was inevitable, perpetuated by the politicians invoking horror stories that exist entirely in their own minds, and powered by the interconnected nature of the world.

This is not mass hysteria, the world as a whole and fractured meaning we are not all friends with one another, regardless of government or affiliation is shut down but I guess every country is wrong and random internet folks are right and this is some sick joke that impacts everyone financially because its smart for governments world wide even the ones that are sanctioned by western powers are to play this game of overhyping a virus last minute. Venezuela and NK are surely benefiting from this fiasco. What is your argument? Why is the entire globe friend or foe freaking out if this is not of concern is the question.

Why are we administering experimental vaccines to our frontline-workers namely health care arguably some of the most useful yet hard to train especially when they get into specialized fields like cardiologists for example.

None of this makes any sense if it was a farce.

 

[Overly Serious]

This is not mass hysteria, the world as a whole and fractured meaning we are not all friends with one another, regardless of government or affiliation is shut down but I guess every country is wrong and random internet folks are right and this is some sick joke that impacts everyone financially because its smart for governments world wide even the ones that are sanctioned by western powers are to play this game of overhyping a virus last minute. Venezuela and NK are surely benefiting from this fiasco. What is your argument? Why is the entire globe friend or foe freaking out if this is not of concern is the question.

Why are we administering experimental vaccines to our frontline-workers namely health care arguably some of the most useful yet hard to train especially when they get into specialized fields like cardiologists for example.

It's a supportable argument - that the negative effects of the lockdowns, vast sums directed to pharma companies, etc. are so great that for so many governments to engage in them must indicate an extreme threat is present. It's the view that I held myself this Summer. (I moved from that to thinking the governments must know more than us when the published evidence no longer justified these responses).

I don't even know for certain that you're wrong - this is my scenario B ("what aren't they telling us") that I gave above. But I've shifted my view now. Your position is based on rational actors. I'm not sure I still believe our governments count as such. Let me be clear, there are two ways in which they can no longer count as rational actors. One of which is a lack of rationality (obviously) but the other is them operating on a set of priorities that are different than we think / they profess. An example of the latter would be us thinking they want what is best for the country but actually wanting to save their political career, e.g. desperate for a vaccine so they have a way out of this that doesn't involve admitting to a massive over-reaction. But also there is simply not knowing what they're doing. E.g. I've looked at the code used to justify the lock downs produced by Niel Ferguson's team. Well, I've looked at the version they were forced to publish which they refused to do for over a month while outside parties came in to hurriedly clean up the 15,000 line C file that was the original version. Given the cleaned-up version was a coding disaster I dread to think what the original was like.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe you're right. Like I said, your view was what I adopted in the Summer. But the more I see in the details the more I see a mass of incompetence and governments desperately trying to avoid being blamed for mass deaths followed by governments desperately trying to avoid being blamed for massive over-reaction. Mixed with a bunch of special interests using this for their own ends. I mean, they're now celebrating a vaccine that they self-admittedly don't even know if it stops you getting it. It seems to typically help with the symptoms. Well that's just dandy - now we're removing the evolutionary pressure for the virus to become less lethal over time meaning it stays dangerous for the unvaccinated! But hey - more money for Pfeizer. Now the Oxford one is much, much cheaper and they're apparently not making much profit on it right away. But if this can become an annual thing and they can edge out Pfeizer as the standard vaccine then they're going to make a killing from this. Trump advocated HCQ and the media and WHO rushed to condemn it and call it dangerous (I used to take it all the time when travelling areas with Malaria and many elderly people take it for arthritis - it's been around forever and is long since off-patent meaning it's not a big earner for drug companies). Literally within a couple of weeks of the US election the AMA quietly lifted its restriction on HCQ and published new guidance saying it may help after all.

I could go on all day about the inconsistencies and about-faces of the various players involved. But basically my view at this point is that there are so many interested parties, so many agendas at play, so much political reputation at stake and so many opportunists that taken as a whole, the governments of our countries can no longer be considered rational actors.

Like I say, you have a supportable argument and you might be right. But going off published information about Covid-19, imo you are not. You're only right, imo, if the governments know something we don't. (Scenario B).

 

[Disheveled Human]

Your position is based on rational actors. I'm not sure I still believe our governments

Here is the key to my conclusion "Our governments" why are countries we would consider enemies and neutral states divorced from us entirely hunkering down too and at the same time? Would that not be counter productive for them if we were making a bullshit stink about nothing? If our enemies are buying this SARS-2 virus as a serious threat why aren't we as independents? Long story short it seems best to be avoided altogether if possible given the probable circumstances.

 

[Homegrown Homophobia]

Imagine being such a dry vagina that you have to ruin your ski trip with your bullshit politics.

 

[Hollywood Hitler]

View attachment 1822016

Imagine being such a dry vagina that you have to ruin your ski trip with your bullshit politics.

Hope she meets her end like Sonny Bono on her ski trip

 

[Vault Boy]

View attachment 1822016

Imagine being such a dry vagina that you have to ruin your ski trip with your bullshit politics.

Outside of keeping your face warm, why would a mask be at all necessary for skiing? God I really hate these people. Practically every store demands wearing a mask before you can walk inside, so their scolding is useless outside of them getting a chubby for "telling" other people off.

 

[Smug Cat]

So literally every continent and most countries including Africa are hunkering down. New strain is 50% more transmissible as far as general opinion is concerned.

My Question: If this shit is a joke why is the whole world locking down whether it be "Friend", "Foe", "Ally", or "Neutral" Country even ones with different government and different trade agreements. If this was a sham to push a power grab there is no way countries that do not benefit western power grabs would lockdown worldwide. It was a big deal in 2002-2003 with SARS it was talked about in an urgent way for the year, it was contained and only 8000 cases were recorded and it died off.

This one is a more transmissible SARS variant and 70% that of the same genetic makeup of SARS (2002) This can get out of hand fast if we don't at least try to chill.

Their are a few countries we bail out and it seems Egypt and Pakistan won the lottery this year. Canadians do a lot of sponsoring so we are also spending millions to what we (people/civilians) would consider insignificant foreign spending. The UK Astra-zenica Oxford vaccine is not for profit and is being manufactured in every continent no major reports or indications of people passing out or adverse effects.

You're putting way too much trust in both the competence and the altruism of government leaders here. If you accept the very readily-apparent truth that government stooges are no more intelligent or virtuous than your average idiot on the street (and in some cases significantly less so), then this argument of "well the government people all think this is a good idea so how can it be a bad one?" collapses at the seams.

The world has been shut down for a while its not really mass hysteria if everyone is locking down.

>it's not mass hysteria if everyone is doing it
Quick question - are you actually retarded? What do you think the word "mass" in "mass hysteria" is there for?

 

[Homegrown Homophobia]

Outside of keeping your face warm, why would a mask be at all necessary for skiing? God I really hate these people. Practically every store demands wearing a mask before you can walk inside, so their scolding is useless outside of them getting a chubby for "telling" other people off.

Most ski resorts have rules this season requiring you to either wear a mask or a double ski gaiter in lift loading zones/ski lodges. Funnily enough every time so far this season I've skated by with wearing a single layer ski buff and nobody, neither the staff or Karen guests have been none the wiser.