Retro Computing Thread - Speccy, C64, Atari ST, Amiga, DOS PC, Amstrad, BBC Micro, and other wonderful machines from 25+ years ago

  • 🔧 Actively working on site again.
I used to have a huge retro electronics habit, I think it sprung out my synthesizer habit. I still have a working commodore plus4 but I sold my vectrex.
They're hard things to let go of, it feels like you lose a part of yourself when you get rid of a machine that really defined a chapter in your life.
 
My boss still has two old Windows 98 machines in our office. Both presently do nothing more than take up space in the room that doubles as my office, but both were in various forms of use until a couple of years ago even after upgrading our main computer twice during that time. If my best-case scenario plays out and i can assume the practice when the boss stops working, I'd like to use one of the hard drives to archive old/digital content. I haven't decided what to do with the other drive, but neither go to waste if I have any input into their fate.

As for the oldest, most niche computer I ever used, it would have to be an old Tandy Color Computer 3. Very simple and rudimentary, even by standards at the time, but it got its use between me using it for high school assignments, sports tracking, and tinkering with its implementation of BASIC and my dad using it to revise the family genealogy. I still remember him typing away when -- in mid word -- a message popped up stating we lacked the memory to add any more characters to the document. With today's machines, it's difficult to envision running out of memory unless one purposely tries to do so.

I never really had much of the 8 bit era, but people a bit older than myself reminisce about loading software from cassette tapes and waiting for ages while it ground away then, just as you thought it was going to run, TAPE LOAD ERROR

My next door neighbor had a C(ommodore)-64 with a tape drive. I still recall two particular games; one was tanks vs. planes trying to shoot each other. The graphics were such that the tank's turret would often "separate" from the lower half during game play. The other game was identified on the tape as "Hawaii #3" and titled "Killer Comet." The idea was to shoot down a large, square-shaped, comet before it landed on Earth. Think Space invaders but without the invaders and saucers. I remember my neighbor's older brother reducing the comet down to two separate sections and saying "It looks like a brick chasing a dog!"

When my family had issues with our CoCo 3 saving to disk, we started to save stuff on cassette tape on a temporary basis. One of the programs we used at the time played the noise of the process through the speakers. That was equal parts intriguing and annoying to young ears. Like @Ginger Piglet , load/save errors were annoying because there never seemed to be any easy workaround for them apart from scrambling to find a different cassette to use in hopes that using a different one solved the problem.

Firstly, it was a DOS-era Microsoft product, of course it sucked. And secondly, x86 assembler, from what I have seen of it, is brain damaged.

I've seen a professional's sample program written in MASM and its source listing. The code on its surface read like a bastardized hybrid of old-school System 360 assembler, Visual BASIC/C++, and the Windows API. As much as I liked and appreciated seeing a decent app run with a small EXE footprint, I cant see why I'd want to do anything more than "Hello World" style programs in any flavor of assembly language unless I needed to write something that dug deep into the machine level.

They're hard things to let go of, it feels like you lose a part of yourself when you get rid of a machine that really defined a chapter in your life.
Agreed, talking about this brings back many fond memories of what computing and technology once was before it became so common that nobody bats an eye at it any more.
 
My boss still has two old Windows 98 machines in our office. Both presently do nothing more than take up space in the room that doubles as my office, but both were in various forms of use until a couple of years ago even after upgrading our main computer twice during that time. If my best-case scenario plays out and i can assume the practice when the boss stops working, I'd like to use one of the hard drives to archive old/digital content. I haven't decided what to do with the other drive, but neither go to waste if I have any input into their fate.

As for the oldest, most niche computer I ever used, it would have to be an old Tandy Color Computer 3. Very simple and rudimentary, even by standards at the time, but it got its use between me using it for high school assignments, sports tracking, and tinkering with its implementation of BASIC and my dad using it to revise the family genealogy. I still remember him typing away when -- in mid word -- a message popped up stating we lacked the memory to add any more characters to the document. With today's machines, it's difficult to envision running out of memory unless one purposely tries to do so.



My next door neighbor had a C(ommodore)-64 with a tape drive. I still recall two particular games; one was tanks vs. planes trying to shoot each other. The graphics were such that the tank's turret would often "separate" from the lower half during game play. The other game was identified on the tape as "Hawaii #3" and titled "Killer Comet." The idea was to shoot down a large, square-shaped, comet before it landed on Earth. Think Space invaders but without the invaders and saucers. I remember my neighbor's older brother reducing the comet down to two separate sections and saying "It looks like a brick chasing a dog!"

When my family had issues with our CoCo 3 saving to disk, we started to save stuff on cassette tape on a temporary basis. One of the programs we used at the time played the noise of the process through the speakers. That was equal parts intriguing and annoying to young ears. Like @Ginger Piglet , load/save errors were annoying because there never seemed to be any easy workaround for them apart from scrambling to find a different cassette to use in hopes that using a different one solved the problem.



I've seen a professional's sample program written in MASM and its source listing. The code on its surface read like a bastardized hybrid of old-school System 360 assembler, Visual BASIC/C++, and the Windows API. As much as I liked and appreciated seeing a decent app run with a small EXE footprint, I cant see why I'd want to do anything more than "Hello World" style programs in any flavor of assembly language unless I needed to write something that dug deep into the machine level.

I've been autodidacting myself 68000 assembler for my adventures in the Atari ST. It's surprisingly elegant and easy to follow. That being said, I only would do bits with it where I needed to be absolutely speed or timing critical or do something unusual. For wrangling large amounts of data or putting together any form of user interface, high level languages all the way.

The other thing I do know about early x86 machines is the dreaded 640KB limit. Because IBM and Microsoft made some brain-dead choices in the early days of the PC, we were shackled with multiple types of memory (Conventional Memory, High Memory, XMS, EMS, UMB) right up until... Windows XP. I believe that the DOS game Ultima VII had to basically offload DOS and then write its own OS just to run the game to make it perform well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Smaug's Smokey Hole
The other thing I do know about early x86 machines is the dreaded 640KB limit. Because IBM and Microsoft made some brain-dead choices in the early days of the PC, we were shackled with multiple types of memory (Conventional Memory, High Memory, XMS, EMS, UMB) right up until... Windows XP. I believe that the DOS game Ultima VII had to basically offload DOS and then write its own OS just to run the game to make it perform well.

I think it was DreamWeb that was a nightmare to get running due to memory limitations. Checking google I see even recent threads from people trying to figure out how to get enough conventional memory to run it.

It wasn't just the memory limitations that sucked before Win2k/XP, IRQs could be a nightmare. The IRQ is a hardware interrupt but in this context it's easier to think of it as an address for the hardware, the sound card is typically on IRQ5 for example. There's a limited amount of these (15) and most of them are already occupied by the system and system functions. When adding hardware that hardware needs an IRQ, that could be set/changed in the Windows Device Manager.

Maybe that doesn't sound like a big deal, what would you even need to add?
1 IRQ. Graphics card, that's necessary.
2 IRQ. VooDoo 3d-accelerator, it needs the graphics card above to run.
3 IRQ. Network card, those weren't integrated into the motherboard yet.
4 IRQ. Internal modem, I think they had slightly lower latency?

Sometimes peripheral A wasn't doing so hot on IRQ X so it needed to move to IRQ Y which meant that peripheral B would have to move and... Having four additional IRQs in use was starting to push the limits, ABIT then made a motherboard with 6 PCI slots, it had not been done before not because it was technically challenging but because it was stupid, when asked how/if it worked with all slots filled their answer was "yeaaaaaaaaah, so....." but I bought and I put six PCI things in it and I almost went insane.
 
I think it was DreamWeb that was a nightmare to get running due to memory limitations. Checking google I see even recent threads from people trying to figure out how to get enough conventional memory to run it.

It wasn't just the memory limitations that sucked before Win2k/XP, IRQs could be a nightmare. The IRQ is a hardware interrupt but in this context it's easier to think of it as an address for the hardware, the sound card is typically on IRQ5 for example. There's a limited amount of these (15) and most of them are already occupied by the system and system functions. When adding hardware that hardware needs an IRQ, that could be set/changed in the Windows Device Manager.

Maybe that doesn't sound like a big deal, what would you even need to add?
1 IRQ. Graphics card, that's necessary.
2 IRQ. VooDoo 3d-accelerator, it needs the graphics card above to run.
3 IRQ. Network card, those weren't integrated into the motherboard yet.
4 IRQ. Internal modem, I think they had slightly lower latency?

Sometimes peripheral A wasn't doing so hot on IRQ X so it needed to move to IRQ Y which meant that peripheral B would have to move and... Having four additional IRQs in use was starting to push the limits, ABIT then made a motherboard with 6 PCI slots, it had not been done before not because it was technically challenging but because it was stupid, when asked how/if it worked with all slots filled their answer was "yeaaaaaaaaah, so....." but I bought and I put six PCI things in it and I almost went insane.

Can we also add to this that some games and applications required EMS memory and wouldn't see XMS memory. This was that unhappy period around 1992-3 or so, before the ubiquitous DOS4GW came along and made life so much simpler. Certain games such as Frontier Elite 2 and Eye of the Beholder III and similar would shit their pants if confronted with a setup that used XMS memory. But if you installed EMM386 to give yourself EMS memory, they would complain for lack of conventional memory. Then you had to systematically install and uninstall every last device driver till you found a setup that worked.

But why didn't they use DOS extenders in the first place, I hear you ask? Well, you see, they only worked on a 386 or above and back in the late 1980s and early 1990s those were mega expensive. It was all a bit embarrassing when my first PC, a super whizzy Pentium 66 on Windows 3.1, would refuse to run stuff that my mate with an asthmatic 286 could do no problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Smaug's Smokey Hole
Back in the day my family had a Tandy and Commodore 64 that my dad had and would sometimes set up (he used it at the office). The Tandy I used once for some educational game. I think my mother used it once or twice tops and it just sat in the corner for years until we got a PC with Windows 95. We got that some time in 96. It came with a book of games and I remember enjoying Mech Warrior and some adventure game where I got stuck fairly early in (note: I hate Adventure games). I remember buying Doom 2 for Windows and I couldn't get it to work. My dad helped and we just couldn't launch the game. And because it was software I couldn't return it. Meanwhile the shareware of Blood ran fine. Go figure. Flash forward two years later when we upgraded to Windows 98 and I found the Doom 2 CD and loaded it up and it played fine.

I have no transition for this cool old-ass Elm Street game.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Smaug's Smokey Hole
I tried poking at some of those 8 bit Atari emulated titles on archive.org. They certainly get to the title screen successfully but I can't get the game to start. Any idea about them?
as an example
 
I tried poking at some of those 8 bit Atari emulated titles on archive.org. They certainly get to the title screen successfully but I can't get the game to start. Any idea about them?
as an example

Took a look at it. F1 to start, space to pause, numpad for directions/button(num0 being the button).
 
  • Semper Fidelis
Reactions: XYZpdq
I want a bunch of retro micros but my SO has said I have to be very selective in what I get. I'll probably be a casual and buy a modern FPGA C64 someday, tho

British kiwis, what is there actually worth playing on the Speccy and BBC Micro that wasn't also on the C64, MSX and MSDOS?
 
Practically creamed my jeans when I saw this. It's an update to the Commander x16 project!

There's an emulator and demos and everything!






I want a bunch of retro micros but my SO has said I have to be very selective in what I get. I'll probably be a casual and buy a modern FPGA C64 someday, tho

British kiwis, what is there actually worth playing on the Speccy and BBC Micro that wasn't also on the C64, MSX and MSDOS?

Late but here's my picks.

For BBC Micro there's the best version of elite, Doctor Who and the Mines of Terror ...and that's about it really. I'm sure some enthusiast will come out with a list of great games but I'm not really well versed in the BBC Micro so that's all that comes to mind.

As for the spectrum, your best bet is homebrew (and getting a spectrum next. It has SD support and loads of nifty features). There's tons of excellent homebrew. TONS.
Anything by the mojon twins is gold, Castlevania Spectral Interlude is gold. Just search "spectrum homebrew", you'll get shitloads ...and they just keep coming!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gator Young Henning
For BBC Micro there's the best version of elite, Doctor Who and the Mines of Terror ...and that's about it really. I'm sure some enthusiast will come out with a list of great games but I'm not really well versed in the BBC Micro so that's all that comes to mind.

I think the Beeb is best known for Elite, its enormous expandability up to and including being a genuine multi-processor system with the Tube interface, and being in almost every school in the 1980s. It didn't really do that well in the home market because compared to the C64 or Speccy it was expensive and rather bulky as well.
 
ATTENTION ALL MEGA65 GAMERS!!!

The devkits will be on sale soon. The cases are being injection moulded as I speak.

 
  • Informative
Reactions: Smaug's Smokey Hole
ATTENTION ALL MEGA65 GAMERS!!!

The devkits will be on sale soon. The cases are being injection moulded as I speak.


Which will win, that or the Spectrum Next?
 
NEW DIZZY GAME
NEW DIZZY GAME

It's absolutely bloody brillo! Not even going to spoil it.
Just fucking play it and be amazed at what a team of people from all across Europe (Mostly the big Spectrum 3: Britain, Spain and Russia) can do on an unmodified 128k.
It looks and plays like an indie game pretending to be a spectrum game.
If you really want a sneak peak, here's Kimble's video on it:
 
Scored an amiga 500 from a yardsale like a decade ago with no cables or bootable disks, finally took the time in the last couple months to wire up a power supply and flux-level disk copier and get it going. It even came with a copy of deluxepaint and I've been enjoying messing with it. Next up Is soldering basically everything onto a gotek floppy emulator board that showed up with nothing attached save for a LED (cheapass Chinese bootleggers..)
 
Scored an amiga 500 from a yardsale like a decade ago with no cables or bootable disks, finally took the time in the last couple months to wire up a power supply and flux-level disk copier and get it going. It even came with a copy of deluxepaint and I've been enjoying messing with it. Next up Is soldering basically everything onto a gotek floppy emulator board that showed up with nothing attached save for a LED (cheapass Chinese bootleggers..)

Hard drive or equivalent - get one. I don't know which interface the Ami had for hard drives but if it's adaptable to IDE there's probably a CompactFlash based solution you can use. Then you can download all the games and software you want to that - and better still, run them without disk or image swapping.

(Old hard drives are best avoided. They might have comfy noises but they are probably worn out by now.)
 
Hard drive or equivalent - get one. I don't know which interface the Ami had for hard drives but if it's adaptable to IDE there's probably a CompactFlash based solution you can use. Then you can download all the games and software you want to that - and better still, run them without disk or image swapping.

(Old hard drives are best avoided. They might have comfy noises but they are probably worn out by now.)
It actually came with a combo 68030 accelerator and HDD, but the DIN connector I need to improvise a PSU for it has been in the mail for over a month now. Given that it came with a bunch of art software I'm very interested at what's on that HDD if it's still readable. Planning on swapping it out for a microcontroller-based drive emulator at some point and/or a CF drive eventually, there's all sorts of interesting homebrew projects to add storage and networking floating around that have been taunting me for ages due to their incompatibility with classic macs (the retrocomputing segment I'm most familiar with) but they're finally beginning to trickle over and gain compatibility. There's also this unholy abomination, which is getting a classic mac version sometime this year. If I ever wind up with more money than I know what to do with I'd love to make a 9" b/w mac push 800mhz just for the sheer anachronism.
 
Back