RPGnet Forums

[MembersSchoolPizza]

What's interesting is if you examine any psuado fantasy setting which draws historical parralels through the rpg lens like they do with Firefly they all look that bad in effectively the same way, Pseudo european medieval settings draw from a period of relentless attrocities and bigotry for example

What's interesting is they are only willing to apply this standard to specific niche american contexts because otherwise gaming would implode or because they're relentlessly american centric.

No, they've basically destroyed fantasy over the last decade or so by doing exactly this, if you haven't been paying attention. Look at half of the new settings and game lines that have come out recently - or hell, go read a fantasy novel written in the last few years. If they're not by an already-established author that started writing before the Shift, they're almost unrecognizable.

 

[Vaclav]

Seeing the fall of RPGnet, I have to ask those who were around in the Ye Olden Days, when was the day, moment or string of events that you can point to that signaled the portance of doom to that website if any?

What doomed RPG.net from the very beginning was their policy that you must never post anything that makes another user feel bad for any reason. I remember in like 2004 or 2005 a thread about monster design inspirations or something where someone posted pictures of giant isopods. Another user went into hysterics, saying that the isopod pics triggered his fear of bugs and demanding they be taken down. The mods removed the pics instead of telling the guy to click on another thread. There was also a thread where people were talking about child beauty pageants and how creepy they were, and someone remarked "I hope there aren't any users who have their kids going to these pageants, then we wouldn't be allowed to talk about them."

Back in the day the culture did support making fun of stupid people, and there was even a time when some particularly dumb posters could be mocked without consequence. But the "never hurt anyone's feelings ever" ethos doomed them; when you're committed to a principle like that there's no way to avoid a complete social justice takeover. It's a perfect opening for the moral blackmail they use to gain power.

I'm curious if anyone knows about a particular incident that led to the policy; it would have had to have been in the site's first few years. My guess is that many of the admins and mods have cat piss man tendencies and were severely bullied as kids; this, combined with the "geek social fallacies" they used to harp on led them to attempt the creation of a utopia where no one would ever be made to feel bad. And like many utopian projects in science fiction, its result is a bloodstained wreck filled with mindless zombies and vicious "security forces" looking for any excuse to blast someone.

 

[The Littlest Shitlord]

Why hope for the death of that which hurts itself for the Farms amusement?

I can see the appeal, the place is a dump, but the degree to which it is causing actual harm is debatable. It probably hurts the causes it claims to champion far more than it helps by showing off their hypocritical stupidity when taken to extremes. RPG.net is not brainwashing anyone into following their standards, they're just encouraging the already obsessed.

Cutting off their ad money is best done as part of a plan to buy out the site. Then, once you own it, de-mod and de-admin the entire current staff, reverse all bans (even the one guy who threatened to sue the site), reverse troon-friendly policies, and dox the now-former staff on the site's front page.

 

[Zonga]

Cutting off their ad money is best done as part of a plan to buy out the site. Then, once you own it, de-mod and de-admin the entire current staff, reverse all bans (even the one guy who threatened to sue the site), reverse troon-friendly policies, and dox the now-former staff on the site's front page.

The last step is bad from a business perspective. The rest would actually lead to a decent rpg forum.

 

[Flexo]

No, they've basically destroyed fantasy over the last decade or so by doing exactly this, if you haven't been paying attention. Look at half of the new settings and game lines that have come out recently - or hell, go read a fantasy novel written in the last few years. If they're not by an already-established author that started writing before the Shift, they're almost unrecognizable.

I would like to know more.

You have 1 or 2 concrete examples?

 

[Screw Danlon]

Seeing the fall of RPGnet, I have to ask those who were around in the Ye Olden Days, when was the day, moment or string of events that you can point to that signaled the portance of doom to that website if any?

Ironically, as much as I thought he was an asshole, I think the day they banned Curt is the day they proved that they didn’t know wtf they were doing.

But the true beginning of the end was when they shut down the thread making fun of otherkin because SomethingElse, (who probably should be a lolcow) said it was too similar to making fun of trans people, because “people feeling like they’re missing wings is no different from people who feel like they’re missing a penis”. Unsurprisingly, he trooned out later that year.

 

[The Littlest Shitlord]

The last step is bad from a business perspective. The rest would actually lead to a decent rpg forum.

This is the sort of thing I'd do if I won the lottery or something and had money to burn; I could afford not to care about looking at a business perspective for a while. The one other thing I forgot to mention that would make a decent RPG forum would be shutting down the off-topic sections of the site, which are the cancer that slowly killed everything else. Of course, in the same spirit as the doxing of the staff, I wouldn't delete Tangency Open, but instead open it up to non-member (and search engine) browsing so everyone can see the embarassing shit that has been posted there.

Ironically, as much as I thought he was an asshole, I think the day they banned Curt is the day they proved that they didn’t know wtf they were doing.

But the true beginning of the end was when they shut down the thread making fun of otherkin because SomethingElse, (who probably should be a lolcow) said it was too similar to making fun of trans people, because “people feeling like they’re missing wings is no different from people who feel like they’re missing a penis”. Unsurprisingly, he trooned out later that year.

Something Else (Luke Lockheart) trooned out and became Something Ellie (Eleanor Lockheart), who has his own thread here in Rat Kings.

 

[Screw Danlon]

Something Else (Luke Lockheart) trooned out and became Something Ellie (Eleanor Lockheart), who has his own thread here in Rat Kings.

Dude/Dudette, you are my fucking hero. I apparently missed it when I looked before, and I am going to go read it right now and see if I can add some more info.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

What doomed RPG.net from the very beginning was their policy that you must never post anything that makes another user feel bad for any reason. I remember in like 2004 or 2005 a thread about monster design inspirations or something where someone posted pictures of giant isopods. Another user went into hysterics, saying that the isopod pics triggered his fear of bugs and demanding they be taken down. The mods removed the pics instead of telling the guy to click on another thread. There was also a thread where people were talking about child beauty pageants and how creepy they were, and someone remarked "I hope there aren't any users who have their kids going to these pageants, then we wouldn't be allowed to talk about them."

Back in the day the culture did support making fun of stupid people, and there was even a time when some particularly dumb posters could be mocked without consequence. But the "never hurt anyone's feelings ever" ethos doomed them; when you're committed to a principle like that there's no way to avoid a complete social justice takeover. It's a perfect opening for the moral blackmail they use to gain power.

I'm curious if anyone knows about a particular incident that led to the policy; it would have had to have been in the site's first few years. My guess is that many of the admins and mods have cat piss man tendencies and were severely bullied as kids; this, combined with the "geek social fallacies" they used to harp on led them to attempt the creation of a utopia where no one would ever be made to feel bad. And like many utopian projects in science fiction, its result is a bloodstained wreck filled with mindless zombies and vicious "security forces" looking for any excuse to blast someone.

It's weird as shit, because hammering stupid people on the Internet until they shut up or at least stop acting retarded goes all the way back to fuckin' Usenet.

Which makes me wonder if these tards were around for Usenet. I was. Can you imagine how they'd shit their pants if they tried to run their bullshit on a Usenet forum? Talk about bloodbaths.

 

[Screw Danlon]

Looking back at the Tumblr.txt thread. which I mentioned above, is interesting. You have people actually mocking the concept of male privilege. You have Critias (who’s been mocked here several times) making fun of the term “autosexual”:

And, well... this speaks for itself:


and this was only 2012/2013. It’s a amazing how hard of a shift that site made,

 

[Shaka Brah]

Which makes me wonder if these tards were around for Usenet. I was. Can you imagine how they'd shit their pants if they tried to run their bullshit on a Usenet forum? Talk about bloodbaths.

Some of them are old enough to have been on Usenet. Moderators especially.

 

[Loose Goose]

Something Else (Luke Lockheart) trooned out and became Something Ellie (Eleanor Lockheart), who has his own thread here in Rat Kings.

A mystery I could never untangle: why are so many troons named Lockheart or Lockhart? It seems to be awfully common for a rare name.

 

[The Littlest Shitlord]

A mystery I could never untangle: why are so many troons named Lockheart or Lockhart? It seems to be awfully common for a rare name.

Final Fantasy 7.

 

[anti SJW]

I wouldn't delete Tangency Open, but instead open it up to non-member (and search engine) browsing so everyone can see the embarassing shit that has been posted there.

I'd also make the old moderator only fourm public and viewable by anyone. I'd lock it so no one else could post. But to see those threads on the stupid reasons they suspended and banned people would be very enlightening.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

I'd also make the old moderator only fourm public and viewable by anyone. I'd lock it so no one else could post. But to see those threads on the stupid reasons they suspended and banned people would be very enlightening.

Once or twice non-mods have gotten to see behind the curtain, IIRC. Either a permission fuckup or sleeping with a mod and used their account or something. It's always been... dramatic.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

I would like to know more.

You have 1 or 2 concrete examples?

I mean, Golarion. Just for example. Or one I've ranted about before, Aldea, the Blue Rose setting. Or the latest rebirth of the Forgotten Realms, with it's wheelchair accessible dungeons, apparently. They're tripping over themselves to make them into these strange Disney-esq theme parks, that are fun places to visit and live, very inclusive - but always of course with symbolic oppression, that can't possibly be applied to real-world groups, or if it is, only very clearly as a Wrongthink Evilbad thing, never an unpleasant facet of a more neutral power... At the expense of verisimilitude or story depth.

The problem with novels is different, but it's still there. Unfortunately I can't at this time point to a couple of good examples that typify it, because it's been more subtle and slow. Basically we're seeing the death of the "everyman" hero, and to some extent the death of the adult novel. Increasingly, the fantasy book lists are populated by novels with young, minority characters dealing with oppression, even when those things aren't really relevant to the story. Or if not oppression, than younger feeling issues, in general. Too many fantasy ( and to a slightly lesser extent, sci-fi) novels I've read in the last few years feel like Young Adult novels, but that's not what they're being sold as.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Some of them are old enough to have been on Usenet. Moderators especially.

We must've been in different places on Usenet. I know some (hell, many) Usenet mods could be tinpot dictators, but they were at least consistent.

This bunch couldn't be consistent if you put a gun to their heads.

 

[Wallace]

Or if not oppression, than younger feeling issues, in general. Too many fantasy ( and to a slightly lesser extent, sci-fi) novels I've read in the last few years feel like Young Adult novels, but that's not what they're being sold as.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by 'younger feeling issues'? I'm wondering if it relates to the general 'failure to launch' that seems common among millennials.

 

[Hugbox Kommissar]

The problem with novels is different, but it's still there. Unfortunately I can't at this time point to a couple of good examples that typify it, because it's been more subtle and slow. Basically we're seeing the death of the "everyman" hero, and to some extent the death of the adult novel. Increasingly, the fantasy book lists are populated by novels with young, minority characters dealing with oppression, even when those things aren't really relevant to the story. Or if not oppression, than younger feeling issues, in general. Too many fantasy ( and to a slightly lesser extent, sci-fi) novels I've read in the last few years feel like Young Adult novels, but that's not what they're being sold as.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you referred to them as YA novels in disguise. The focus seems to have shifted away from using the fantastical as escapism to using the fantastical as commentary on real world issues. I don't have a patient zero for this either but I think a good example would be NK Jemisin's Broken Earth trilogy (Hugo Award Winning) where all the discussion is about how the mc is a representation of the abused and exploited female POC in the real world and the sole big worldbuilding conceit (always just one) is a metaphor for climate change in the real world. Is the worldbuilding compelling? Are the characters memorable? Who cares, it won a Hugo, it must be good!

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by 'younger feeling issues'? I'm wondering if it relates to the general 'failure to launch' that seems common among millennials.

Not... easily, but I'll try. It'll be kind of rambling, bear with me.

Lots of what I see in modern novels is... very personal issues. Family issues, ennui, social strife, displacement, finding your place in things, etc.

Not that these issues were never found in fantasy and sci fi before, but you're seeing a lot more of them now. And when you did see them, they were usually in romantic fantasy. And hey, I like romantic fantasy, but it's a different sort of thing, with different expectations.

And on the flip side, the stuff that would usually be the plot, in older, more traditional works, almost takes a back seat to the personal journey. They don't share equal space. It's... The A plot and the B plot, to use a television term, have gotten switched around.