What are some of the biggest examples of bad game design you’ve seen?

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The Fire Emblem x SMT crossover has every character be corresponding to an element. The final boss is immune to fire element, so fire element characters can get fucked.
Tbf Touma's shit anyway so its not like it affects anything
Bit annoying it basically makes Kiria essential but she's basically made of paper so you need Mamori or Tsubasa pouring heals on her full time
 
Solid reason why I skip using legendaries. Not only are they so OP that it's not fun, but it's half expected that you use them because often they are just better.

Case and point: why use any flying/dragon type, when you can just use Rayquaza. He has ludicrous stats, and in games with mega-evolutions, he can just mega-evolve without losing a held item slot. He's not even fair.
Largely Legendries are "illegal" in competitive battlings Pseudos aren't though.
 
I dont mind rewatching cutscenes because I tend to like games for their stories and I go into it with the same mindset as rewatching a movie I've already scene before. However, it can be very annoying when a long unstoppable cutscene comes before a notoriously difficult boss fight that's likely to take a few tries (the worst example I can remember is in Kingdom Hearts when you have to fight Rikku without Donald and Goofy with that crappy wooden sword)
Oh totally. Skipping cutscenes just gives more options to the player, I like rewatching them on my playthroughs too unless I'm replaying it again in a really short period. Otherwise this right here. If I were to guess, some of those long cutscenes were hiding a loading screen, while others were just jerking the player around. :(
 
This is a niche complaint about some Japanese 3rd person hack and slash games like Dynasty Warriors and Gravity Rush, but I absolutely despise games where the X axis on the camera is inverted and the game doesn't tell you. In most games, when you move the camera stick to the left it's meant to pan the camera lens left. In DW and Gravity Rush, pushing the camera stick left moves the camera left but the perspective pans right as though I'm pushing a physical camera left and the lens is swinging right.


In Dynasty Warriors it's not a big deal because 99.99% of enemies are mooks and couldn't hurt you if they tried. In Gravity Rush it's much more annoying because I'm trying to control a character that is uncoupled from conventional gravity while also fighting an uncooperative camera that isn't consistent in whether or not it will phase through walls and terrain. And when it does decide to pass through terrain, there's no guarantee you can actually see through the terrain to see what's going on.
 
Tatsunoko vs Capcom had the worst possible penalty for rage quitting online: If the other player quit, YOU got the loss.

Especially bad considering how bad Wi-Fi was on the Wii, and with how few people were actually playing, disconnects could happen at anytime.
 
The single worst designed game I’ve ever played was Wasteland 2.
-Shitty graphics twenty five years out of date.
-Awful linear mission design (inexcusable in a sandbox game).
-booby traps on roughly a third of all interactables, even if they contain nothing of value (apparently setting traps is a popular hobby, post-apocalypse).
-Skills are independent of stats, and stats aren’t really used in-game, so just dump everything into Int to max out skill points on level-up.
-You have to constantly travel the same routes and get ambushed by the same people at the same points every fucking time.
-You can be armed with a semi-auto rifle, but the second you fire a single shot, enemies will run sixty yards and start beating you over the head before you can fire a second shot.
I was an early backer for this dumpster fire of a game and years later, I’m still mad about the forty odd bucks I spent.
 
I don't think it has been mentioned, but: Premium tanks in World of Tanks.

Pay2Win in general is utter cancer, microtransactions are a desaster, but holy fucking shit, is it ridiculous when it comes to the tiered combat system of WoT.
Tanks get put into tiers depending on how effective they are in their role, but to make pay2win tanks more interesting, they are not only superior in all regards to a comparable tank of the same role, they are also in comparatively low tiers. Essentially, you're the games designated seal-clubber. Add to that the Russian bias that makes Tigers light up like Zippos with weak-ass armor and heavily reduced armor penetration and you get a mess of a game.

That being said: Bias on part of the game makers was a bitch, too.
Some years ago, one of the KV-variants, I think the KV-1S, was so incredibly overpowered for its tier, it was literally "The other side has one of those? Well fuck us, I guess." Barely anything could hurt that fucker, even from the sides, its cannon shot quickly, it penetrated anything and it did a metric ton of damage. It was ridiculous... and people complained for months before the devs reacted: They promised to put the tank into a higher tier "soon", but did sweet fuck-all for 2 or 3 months... meanwhile, they merrily introduced new tanks into existing techtrees of the other nations that ended up pushing everything after those new tanks up a tier and thus fucked them over even harder. I think when they finally changed the KV-1S into a higher tier, every other tank in that tier had already been nerfed.

Something specific to that game: Pseudo-historical tanks that never existed.
The game is choke full with tanks that were designed, planned or even just suggested during WW2, which makes some nations end up with utterly retarded designs that would never work, but since the game uses the crazed fever dreams of war-stressed Generals as foundation for their capabilties, you end up with tanks that drive faster than anything in their weight bracket, cause unlike the real tanks, that needed to come up with a propulsion system based on what's actually available, some General going "Yeah, we'll find a 1500HP engine of the correct size and weight somewhere, I guess..." Same with the armor and guns. Essentially, you end up with a tank that never left the most basic design phase, never had been put together to see if that shit even works and sometimes uses experimental technology that you'd not see employed up to this date to this degree.

The result: A tank with a ridiculously low weight, but a ridiculously strong engine, nearly unbreakable armor and a quick-firing gun that blows chunks out of tanks 20 tons heavier and 3 tiers higher without any problems. And this fucker costs 50 bucks. Never mind the whole thing would need to be build with armor as light as styrofoam and as sturdy as diamond to be able to even pull off half of this shit. Never mind that the engine would have to be so utterly large, it would fill up the entire insides of the tank and leave no room for crew or ammo...
And that abomination goes against some upgraded Panzer IV with all its historically existing specs (implemented by biased slavs)...

We used to call these made up tanks "sketch-tanks" or "napkin tanks", cause quite a lot of those felt like Hitler, Churchill or DeGaul had doodled them on a napkin while eating and going "This! I want this!".
So can you name this super OP premium tank? I’d like to buy one but I’m not sure which one you’re talking about.
 
So can you name this super OP premium tank? I’d like to buy one but I’m not sure which one you’re talking about.
I don't know what tank he's talking about, but I know that Wargaming has taken to releasing Premium heavy tanks with ridiculous armor and shit guns. Why? Because it means you have to use premium shells in order to get your piddly gun to actually go through anything more armored than a box of tissues, and it means everybody else has to use premium shells to get through your bank vault on treads.

Premium shells cost 10 times more than a normal shell so you pretty much need a premium account to afford to keep using those. It's like they're triple-dipping on the exploitative mechanics.
 
So can you name this super OP premium tank? I’d like to buy one but I’m not sure which one you’re talking about.
Oh god, it has been years, dunno if those tanks are even still good (or if they nerfed them to push sales of other tanks).

The ELC was one such example of a ridiculously overpowered light tank, that was way too fast, way too nimble, way too strongly armed.
I had a couple of games where I drove a fully maxed out Tiger II and managed to hit these speedy motherfuckers in the side when they went past my tank at like 70kph and all I did was blowing their track off without even dealing damage to the hull. It's almost impossible to hit those fuckers, but even a direct hit in the side-armor did sweet fuckall. Dude just used a repair kit for his tracks and was on his merry way to circle around me and pelt me with his fucking gun.

There was a similar German tank on a lower tier, that was a fucking pest. In general, all premium tanks are barely veiled pay2win trashbags.

On a sidenote, more of an issue with the community, but you always had these guys driving KV tanks (which were notorious for being OP on their tier), who'd be the dumbest motherfuckers around. Instead of driving to objectives or blocking off important chokepoints, they'd piss off to do god knows what (most often wasting time by driving around the far side of the map), while the team was getting steamrolled by non-retard players.
In the end, these fuckers would be amongst the last few remaining tanks on your side, get attacked by a bunch of hostiles who already have damaged tanks, so the KV morons would get a few easy kills, rack up a decent score despite being about as useless as nipples on a statue and they'd think they are hot shit, cause they had a couple kills and decent statistics, so clearly, it must have been the team's fault they lost.
It was infuriating.

I don't know what tank he's talking about, but I know that Wargaming has taken to releasing Premium heavy tanks with ridiculous armor and shit guns. Why? Because it means you have to use premium shells in order to get your piddly gun to actually go through anything more armored than a box of tissues, and it means everybody else has to use premium shells to get through your bank vault on treads.

Premium shells cost 10 times more than a normal shell so you pretty much need a premium account to afford to keep using those. It's like they're triple-dipping on the exploitative mechanics.
Reading this, I am genuinely surprised they didn't do this from the get-go. Economically speaking, this is a smart move, but it makes the game virtually unplayable and anyone unwilling to shell out a fuckload of money for this game is doomed to be cannon-fodder for the whales. Fuck this shit.
 
I don't know what tank he's talking about, but I know that Wargaming has taken to releasing Premium heavy tanks with ridiculous armor and shit guns. Why? Because it means you have to use premium shells in order to get your piddly gun to actually go through anything more armored than a box of tissues, and it means everybody else has to use premium shells to get through your bank vault on treads.

Premium shells cost 10 times more than a normal shell so you pretty much need a premium account to afford to keep using those. It's like they're triple-dipping on the exploitative mechanics.
The point I was making is that I’ve heard the ‘OP Premium’ griping in WoT for a long, long time. But there’s no truly OP tank because if there were, nobody would play anything else.
The AMX ELC that he was talking about, the one that’s flat as a pancake? If you give it a decent gun, it only has a 90 degree traverse. It’s got tissue paper armour and struggles on rough ground because it’s got shitty clearance. It’s gun depression and elevation are awful. But you won’t hear that shit from him because he’s clearly never played one, just against them.
I run a couple of premium tanks just for grinding resources and honestly, the only things that are ‘op’ are the wheeled vehicles, because they’re just so hard to hit. Everything else has pros and cons.
 
The point I was making is that I’ve heard the ‘OP Premium’ griping in WoT for a long, long time. But there’s no truly OP tank because if there were, nobody would play anything else.
The AMX ELC that he was talking about, the one that’s flat as a pancake? If you give it a decent gun, it only has a 90 degree traverse. It’s got tissue paper armour and struggles on rough ground because it’s got shitty clearance. It’s gun depression and elevation are awful. But you won’t hear that shit from him because he’s clearly never played one, just against them.
I run a couple of premium tanks just for grinding resources and honestly, the only things that are ‘op’ are the wheeled vehicles, because they’re just so hard to hit. Everything else has pros and cons.
To be fair (to be faaaaair), Domus there did mention he hasn't played in a few years. The ELC AMX was a tiny little doom cockroach for a very long time, and then it got nerfed into the ground.

I imagine he's recalling the times of the Type 59 (powercreeped to hell) and the E 25 (removed from the store). And besides... even when the Tier 8 premiums (the bread-and-butter for fleecing the playerbase) are overpowered, they are still food for Tier 10s, which are the tanks everybody wants. The last time I played WoT, a little under year ago, my problem wasn't tanks being overpowered (besides the wheeled vehicles being ridiculous), it was that the game had just become boring.
 
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The point I was making is that I’ve heard the ‘OP Premium’ griping in WoT for a long, long time. But there’s no truly OP tank because if there were, nobody would play anything else.
The AMX ELC that he was talking about, the one that’s flat as a pancake? If you give it a decent gun, it only has a 90 degree traverse. It’s got tissue paper armour and struggles on rough ground because it’s got shitty clearance. It’s gun depression and elevation are awful. But you won’t hear that shit from him because he’s clearly never played one, just against them.
I run a couple of premium tanks just for grinding resources and honestly, the only things that are ‘op’ are the wheeled vehicles, because they’re just so hard to hit. Everything else has pros and cons.
It has been about 5 years since I even stopped playing. I started playing during closed beta and my most active time was around 2014 or something along those lines, so your mileage may vary, especially today.
The ELC has tissue paper for armor, still I had my fair share of games where my shots just bounced off or only managed to detrack them without doing damage for no discernable reason, even when they got hit on a very flat angle dead fucking center. The tank wasn't unkillable, but it managed to take abuse that made my heavy tank on a similar tier blush.
The ELC was not an automatic "I win this round" tank either, but it was bullshit on tracks at times.

The tank also might have downsides like the limited gun angles, but nothing to really balance how strong it was in other regards. If they made it get bogged down in mud or whatever at some later point, that's certainly nice, but that was not a big deal when I was still playing (and ELC players merely avoided such terrain). @Corn Flakes also mentioned the E-25, now that fucker was even worse iirc.

"No one would be playing anything else" ... unless, of course, you're like me who plays Germans exclusively for autistic reasons (so no slav bias for me), or you're stuck on a tier before you get to the good shit, or you have to play low-tier tanks to afford repairs and upgrades for your high-tier tanks (and end up with tanks that are clearly put into way too low a tier in the other team) or you don't want to shell out 50 bucks for a tank that might be decent for some time before they nerf it cause you're a poorfag, don't want to throw even more money at the game then you already do and so on.
My point being that there are many reasons not to play the most OP things ranging from tastes in tank designs (when it comes to regular tanks) to mere monetary aspects (when it comes to premium tanks). What good is it if the soviet high tier heavy tank is the best thing since sliced bread if I already poured dozens, if not hundreds, of hours into grinding German tanks by the time I find out how utterly broken that other tank might be? Especially when the annoyance of OP tanks is something that accumulates over time. It's much more likely to drop the game at that point - and a lot of people did pick certain nations based on how strong their tanks are.

Some tanks are bound to be better than others. Still some tanks are way too good at what they do compared to similar ones - especially considering their tier. KV-2 was a mere turret-upgrade of the KV-1 at some very early point, for instance. At tier 4 if memory serves correctly. Of course, that was also the time when my tier 3 (? I think) Luchs ran together with a tier 10 Maus in the same team every once in a while, so that issue hasn't been relevant in almost 10 years - but it was a problem at some point.

But since I'm on a rant here:

The matchmaking was a thing of wonders, too.
I stopped playing when the matchmaking started to do really weird shit that made a large number of matches simply unwinable by default.

The way matchmaking was supposed to work was to put together 2 teams with somewhat equal tanks (ie: mix of lights, mediums, heavies, TDs and Arty of the same range of tiers) but the algorithm had some blatant bias shit going on here and there. I lost count how many matches I had where my team was simply in no position to win whatsoever due to team composition alone and you could tell on the loading screen there was simply no way to avoid a crushing defeat.
In many instances, we were out-tiered by our enemies in such an obvious manner that it simply could not have happened on accident.
Like our best (sometimes only!) heavy tank was -say- a tier 5 (not even fully equipped), while the enemy had 3 or 4 heavies from tier 6 and 7 and nothing about the rest of the team made up for that imbalance either. You'd maybe expect to have high tier mediums or TDs or whatever to make up for it, but nope. A team with less heavies, worse heavies and everything else either also falls short or (at best) tallies up equal to the rest of the other side.
I had a couple games where half the hostile team was high-tier heavies and we had not a single heavy in our team at all with predictable results.

I didn't mind the slav bias or the occasional premium tank here and there, but that just fucking broke me. It's one thing fighting an uphill battle, but it's an entirely different one to realize you're just a target, not meant to put up much of a fight, in a shooting gallery for the paying customer. And the longer this game is around, the more premium tanks are around, too.
 
I don't know what tank he's talking about, but I know that Wargaming has taken to releasing Premium heavy tanks with ridiculous armor and shit guns. Why? Because it means you have to use premium shells in order to get your piddly gun to actually go through anything more armored than a box of tissues, and it means everybody else has to use premium shells to get through your bank vault on treads.

Premium shells cost 10 times more than a normal shell so you pretty much need a premium account to afford to keep using those. It's like they're triple-dipping on the exploitative mechanics.

This is one of the biggest reasons why I switched to World of Warships (and thereafter to the mobile version); a lot of premiums are shit boats unless you've got the captain skill points, and even then they're still shit, while quite a few tech-tree ships beat out same-tier premium counterparts. Gold is also much easier to earn than in WoT.

But the best part is they've made those average/shit premiums far more accessible through normal events; and locked the really powerful boats behind the in-game resource paywall, which aren't obtainable through whaling. And still, even paying $50+ for the hottest OP loliboat doesn't equal wins

But the best part was not having to buy premium ammo; the equivalent in WoW being repair kits, and those are earned for free quite often. Even at tier 10, you don't *need* premium repair kits to win, or even survive.

Now if only WG would stop fixing/adding game-mechanics until they're broke worse. And when submarines go live, that's easy content for a worst game design post.
 
The tyre management programs in the Formula 1 game. Basically, you do a practice run where the idea is to minimise tyre wear over 3 laps. Except there's still a strict time limit, so if you go slowly and conserve the tyres, you won't make the lap time and thus fail. If you drive hard enough to meet the lap time, you'll put too much wear on your tyres and thus fail.
 
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As a console pleb playing World of Warships Legends I can confirm that you still have a ton of people who have no clue how to play their ship type and directly contribute to losses.

Every game you have a chance of:
1. Destroyers who will run to the absolute corner of the map to do some weird flanking play to try and torpedo one battleship. Meanwhile the rest of their team is getting wrecked by walls of torpedoes from enemy destroyers that could have been spotted by said idiot, and walls of AP rounds from battleships that could have been torpedoed. These dudes are usually last alive.

2. Battleships that backup from the opening round and try to long distance snipe. Despite having the highest hit point pool they refuse to even try to push into the map or onto an adjective. This is double infuriating when it's German battleships as they have great secondaries (that won't go used at 17km out), usually torpedoes, and have the worst dispersion so it makes it even more stupid to try to play soft.

3. Cruisers that make no effort to help spot and kill destroyers. Despite having radar and sonar (which will detect ships within a certain distance through smokescreens) these fucks would rather camp behind and island spamming HE at battleships.

On console the premium ships are usually balanced and accessible. The worst game design is not having some sort of player feedback system for World of Bots
 
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It has been about 5 years since I even stopped playing. I started playing during closed beta and my most active time was around 2014 or something along those lines, so your mileage may vary, especially today.
The ELC has tissue paper for armor, still I had my fair share of games where my shots just bounced off or only managed to detrack them without doing damage for no discernable reason, even when they got hit on a very flat angle dead fucking center. The tank wasn't unkillable, but it managed to take abuse that made my heavy tank on a similar tier blush.
The ELC was not an automatic "I win this round" tank either, but it was bullshit on tracks at times.

The tank also might have downsides like the limited gun angles, but nothing to really balance how strong it was in other regards. If they made it get bogged down in mud or whatever at some later point, that's certainly nice, but that was not a big deal when I was still playing (and ELC players merely avoided such terrain). @Corn Flakes also mentioned the E-25, now that fucker was even worse iirc.

"No one would be playing anything else" ... unless, of course, you're like me who plays Germans exclusively for autistic reasons (so no slav bias for me), or you're stuck on a tier before you get to the good shit, or you have to play low-tier tanks to afford repairs and upgrades for your high-tier tanks (and end up with tanks that are clearly put into way too low a tier in the other team) or you don't want to shell out 50 bucks for a tank that might be decent for some time before they nerf it cause you're a poorfag, don't want to throw even more money at the game then you already do and so on.
My point being that there are many reasons not to play the most OP things ranging from tastes in tank designs (when it comes to regular tanks) to mere monetary aspects (when it comes to premium tanks). What good is it if the soviet high tier heavy tank is the best thing since sliced bread if I already poured dozens, if not hundreds, of hours into grinding German tanks by the time I find out how utterly broken that other tank might be? Especially when the annoyance of OP tanks is something that accumulates over time. It's much more likely to drop the game at that point - and a lot of people did pick certain nations based on how strong their tanks are.

Some tanks are bound to be better than others. Still some tanks are way too good at what they do compared to similar ones - especially considering their tier. KV-2 was a mere turret-upgrade of the KV-1 at some very early point, for instance. At tier 4 if memory serves correctly. Of course, that was also the time when my tier 3 (? I think) Luchs ran together with a tier 10 Maus in the same team every once in a while, so that issue hasn't been relevant in almost 10 years - but it was a problem at some point.

But since I'm on a rant here:

The matchmaking was a thing of wonders, too.
I stopped playing when the matchmaking started to do really weird shit that made a large number of matches simply unwinable by default.

The way matchmaking was supposed to work was to put together 2 teams with somewhat equal tanks (ie: mix of lights, mediums, heavies, TDs and Arty of the same range of tiers) but the algorithm had some blatant bias shit going on here and there. I lost count how many matches I had where my team was simply in no position to win whatsoever due to team composition alone and you could tell on the loading screen there was simply no way to avoid a crushing defeat.
In many instances, we were out-tiered by our enemies in such an obvious manner that it simply could not have happened on accident.
Like our best (sometimes only!) heavy tank was -say- a tier 5 (not even fully equipped), while the enemy had 3 or 4 heavies from tier 6 and 7 and nothing about the rest of the team made up for that imbalance either. You'd maybe expect to have high tier mediums or TDs or whatever to make up for it, but nope. A team with less heavies, worse heavies and everything else either also falls short or (at best) tallies up equal to the rest of the other side.
I had a couple games where half the hostile team was high-tier heavies and we had not a single heavy in our team at all with predictable results.

I didn't mind the slav bias or the occasional premium tank here and there, but that just fucking broke me. It's one thing fighting an uphill battle, but it's an entirely different one to realize you're just a target, not meant to put up much of a fight, in a shooting gallery for the paying customer. And the longer this game is around, the more premium tanks are around, too.
To be fair (to be faaaaair), Domus there did mention he hasn't played in a few years. The ELC AMX was a tiny little doom cockroach for a very long time, and then it got nerfed into the ground.

I imagine he's recalling the times of the Type 59 (powercreeped to hell) and the E 25 (removed from the store). And besides... even when the Tier 8 premiums (the bread-and-butter for fleecing the playerbase) are overpowered, they are still food for Tier 10s, which are the tanks everybody wants. The last time I played WoT, a little under year ago, my problem wasn't tanks being overpowered (besides the wheeled vehicles being ridiculous), it was that the game had just become boring.
To be fair he didn’t mention that until after questions started being asked. Opining on the current state of a game one hasn’t played in half a decade is somewhat disingenuous.
 
To be fair he didn’t mention that until after questions started being asked. Opining on the current state of a game one hasn’t played in half a decade is somewhat disingenuous.
To be fair, bad design choices in the past are just as annoying as they are now, they are timeless and this thread started out with games a decade old. You pretend like I was out to ruin Wargaming's stellar reputation unjustifiedly in a henous act of villainy and slander that was only uncovered by smartly "asking questions", I merely pointed out obnoxious design choices in WoT and you took offense to that for god knows what reasons, calling me disingenuous even.

Feels like I accidentally shittalked a game you enjoy and you now need to whiteknight the game tbh.
 
As a console pleb playing World of Warships Legends I can confirm that you still have a ton of people who have no clue how to play their ship type and directly contribute to losses.


On console the premium ships are usually balanced and accessible. The worst game design is not having some sort of player feedback system for World of Bots

Fwiw, those are all reasons I'm a heretic by only playing WoW Blitz anymore. It's stripped down & blessedly free of the reworks saddling the PC version (tho I haven't played console yet), and also with a completely different (and smaller) dev team.

The time limits and ranges are much reduced, which seriously bites into overpowered CVs and sniping BBs roflstomping teams from afar. Top tier matches are dominated by cruisers & destroyers, and brawling battleships haven't been neutered.
 
Fwiw, those are all reasons I'm a heretic by only playing WoW Blitz anymore. It's stripped down & blessedly free of the reworks saddling the PC version (tho I haven't played console yet), and also with a completely different (and smaller) dev team.

The time limits and ranges are much reduced, which seriously bites into overpowered CVs and sniping BBs roflstomping teams from afar. Top tier matches are dominated by cruisers & destroyers, and brawling battleships haven't been neutered.
I might have to check it out. I just want to wreck shit by plunging head first in my Tirpitz. Come hell or high water im getting mine.
 
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To be fair, bad design choices in the past are just as annoying as they are now, they are timeless and this thread started out with games a decade old. You pretend like I was out to ruin Wargaming's stellar reputation unjustifiedly in a henous act of villainy and slander that was only uncovered by smartly "asking questions", I merely pointed out obnoxious design choices in WoT and you took offense to that for god knows what reasons, calling me disingenuous even.

Feels like I accidentally shittalked a game you enjoy and you now need to whiteknight the game tbh.
Calm down bro. Hyperbole and strawmanning doesn‘t look good on you.
 
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