The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Android raptor]

Completely reasonable when you remember the fact that the effect is permanent and can't be undone. Its rare for a young, completely healthy woman to resort to something like that unless there are extenuating circumstances. I mean, unless you're planning on doing something stupid, like being a pornstar that specializes in creampies, its largely unnecessary. Costs are an issue yes, but once again, there are plenty of things you can do to make such a drastic action unnecessary, as long as you are smart. And they don't require money.


Sounds like you're a lesbian, so your chances of getting pregnant are actually practically nonexistent. And pregnancy is a natural part of life. Nothing to be terrified or disgusted about.


Don't worry too much. As long as their being intelligent, they should avoid getting pregnant. Now, if you know they aren't smart or safe about sex and sleep around a lot, then you should worry.


I too know women who've been raped. But if you life in the same Bible Belt I do, its not really an epidemic. Truth is, very, very few abortions are carried out due to rape specifically. Chances are extremely low that you or any woman you know will have to have an abortion especially for that purpose.

I'm unlikely to get struck by lightning either, but I still stay the fuck inside during thunderstorms. My uterus is about as useful to me as my appendix and probably more of a liability. Being an adult is the only thing that should be required of me to get it removed

Pregnancy is natural, but it comes with a massive list of risks including death. Shit, my state actually has the highest rate of maternal mortality in the developed world. If someone wants to take that risk fine, but I don't. Ever. Even if it wouldn't kill me directly, with my long history of mental illness postpartum depression or psychosis would almost certainly be a thing. Shit, I've been suicidal just from being on the rag. I don't ever want to find out what pregnancy would do.

There's tons of other fun shit pregnancy and childbirth can do, like ripping your fucking taint open and making you incontinent. One of my friends thought she was going to die when she was giving birth and I believe her (that's also why she's aborting if she ever gets pregnant again).

Straight up, I'd rather have a botfly under my skin than get pregnant. The botfly is way less likely to kill me, plus no one would fuss about me getting it removed (even though a botfly larva is just as alive and probably as sentient as an embryo is).

As for my friends, like I said they all use some form of protection and none sleep around a lot. They are at a lower risk of pregnancy but it isn't zero since birth control can fail, even if you use multiple form. Like has been mentioned itt a good chunk of abortions are due to birth control fails.

It is 11 times safer to have an abortion than it is to give birth in the US. If the prolife crowd wants to freak out about anything, why not freak out about how so many women who want their pregnancies are dying?

 

[Lemmingwise]

If impregnating yourself with a turkey baster with sperm several days old was that easy then why do women spend thousands on IUI or IVF treatments? You tell me.

Glad you asked. I'm no expert on the subject, but I know enough to answer this one.

It's easy when you're already fertile. It's a common method of "homebrew IVF" solutions.

The difference with IVF is that the eggs are harvested (rather than trusting you're ovulating effectively and fertile eggs) and fertilised outside and then when succesful, implanted into the womb.

We were just talking about having your tubes tied for example. It's usually an irreversible treatment.

But you can still become pregnant through IVF. If you have other problems with fallopian tubes, IVF can also work, whereas turkey baster method wouldn't.

And finally, because some women prefer trusting experts and paying for the privilege rather than doing the farmly thing.

I don't know if in the specific court case that your other post relates to involves several days old sperm. Why not do it the same day is my question? But since she did get pregnant that way, according to her own testimony as well as his, it obviously worked.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I'm unlikely to get struck by lightning either, but I still stay the fuck inside during thunderstorms. My uterus is about as useful to me as my appendix and probably more of a liability. Being an adult is the only thing that should be required of me to get it removed

I mean, doctors are generally hesitant to perform invasive surgery anyway if there are no immediate risks to health. Too much can go wrong. Much easier, cheaper, and, not to mention, safer for them liability wise to simply counsel the person on how best to avoid pregnancy.

As for my friends, like I said they all use some form of protection and none sleep around a lot. They are at a lower risk of pregnancy but it isn't zero since birth control can fail, even if you use multiple form. Like has been mentioned itt a good chunk of abortions are due to birth control fails.

That's why they say abstinence is the only 100% effective method of birth control. Because it is. But even with that, failure rates for most birth control are (relatively) low, as long as you use them correctly. However, your friends will probably be ok.

It is 11 times safer to have an abortion than it is to give birth in the US. If the prolife crowd wants to freak out about anything, why not freak out about how so many women who want their pregnancies are dying?

These numbers are relative. Abortion is safer for the mother in the modern age because they are the most dangerous to the baby, not the mother. As long as the abortion Doc knows what he's doing, the risks are minimal to the mother as all of the risk is moved to the baby. However abortion comes with its own risks. Meanwhile, pregnancy has always had high levels of risk and will never be without risks; it puts a huge strain on the body and a million things can go wrong. However, women have been having kids for millennia at this point, without the wonders of modern medicine. And modern medicine mitigates the risks by quite a bit. Having a child in the modern day united states is the safest its ever been in history. And a woman dying during her pregnancy is a horrible, and sad a event, but largely a matter of circumstance. A woman aborting her child is a horrible tragedy cause by selfish, conscious action and choice.

 

[Android raptor]

I mean, doctors are generally hesitant to perform invasive surgery anyway if there are no immediate risks to health. Too much can go wrong. Much easier, cheaper, and, not to mention, safer for them liability wise to simply counsel the person on how best to avoid pregnancy.


That's why they say abstinence is the only 100% effective method of birth control. Because it is. But even with that, failure rates for most birth control are (relatively) low, as long as you use them correctly. However, your friends will probably be ok.


These numbers are relative. Abortion is safer for the mother in the modern age because they are the most dangerous to the baby, not the mother. As long as the abortion Doc knows what he's doing, the risks are minimal to the mother as all of the risk is moved to the baby. However abortion comes with its own risks. Meanwhile, pregnancy has always had high levels of risk and will never be without risks; it puts a huge strain on the body and a million things can go wrong. However, women have been having kids for millennia at this point, without the wonders of modern medicine. And modern medicine mitigates the risks by quite a bit. Having a child in the modern day united states is the safest its ever been in history. And a woman dying during her pregnancy is a horrible, and sad a event, but largely a matter of circumstance. A woman aborting her child is a horrible tragedy cause by selfish, conscious action and choice.

Having a kid when you know you arent capable of caring for it properly is a selfish choice. Infinitely more selfish than getting an abortion.

And yeah, my friends will probably be fine. Thankfully even if they do get pregnant the feds are currently forcing my state to give women basic bodily autonomy so they probably will be able to access a safe abortion. Even if shit goes full Saudi Arabia one of my friends knows a guy in Canada who can probably hook her up. It still should never have to get to that point though.

I'm poor so I have much fewer options. I'm also a paranoid fucker that worries about shit going so taliban that even my decently off friends won't be able to get a safe abortion. It's highly unlikely, but it's a fear I have.

Also how are you gonna tell me to just get sterilized then try to justify why it's damn near impossible for women to do exactly that? Yeah it comes with risks, but so does pregnancy and childbirth.

The US has no excuse having the rate of maternal mortality it does. Wild how you just hand wave that as just an unfortunate circumstance but heaven forbid anyone yeet an embryo.

Speaking of embryos, IVF probably destroy far more of them than abortions do. Yet the only time I see prolifers say anything about it is when they're reminded they exist, and even then they seem far less concerned about an IVF clinice destroying thousands of embryos than they are about a woman flushing one (1) embryo. If ya'll want to protect embryos, IVF clinics should be your main focus since they destroy the most by far.

If a fetus ever gets in my body, it will be removed ASAP. No matter what I have to do and how many neckbeards and fundies REEEEEE about the poor widdle embryo. Maybe I can send it to one of them afterwards since theh clearly want it more than I do.

 

[KEKleon]

Did some incel forum die and they're migrating to what they think is a safe space? "Haha women get CoNsEqUeNcEs for opening their sloot legs, also any woman in a relationship is a cheating whore" while ignoring that men also contribute to this exact problem but clearly they're not allowed these "consequences" and do cheat as well so... ???

Genuinely want to know how they get along with their mother (or what they even say about their supposed whore moms, because every woman is inherently bad) let alone the rest of their family. If anything, this is living proof that abortions should be allowed so they don't raise anyone to be this retarded due to being neglected or abused because no one wanted them.

Sad!

 

[Muh Vagina]

the deterioration of sexual mores

You sound awfully uppity for a member of a shitposting forum.

 

[Android raptor]

And like I said earlier, how the fuck can you say sexual mores are deteriorated now when previously in history it was legal to do shit like diddle and marry children and rape your spouse? Shits not perfect now, but it's a hell of a lot better than when 14 year old girls were expected to marry dudes old enough to be their fathers and pop out babies until they were no longer capable of it or it killed them.

And that's not even getting into shit like pedaresty or Roman emperor hijinks.

Humans have always been fucked up and horny, but at least in current year America it's illegal to diddle and marry kids or rape your spouse.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Did some incel forum die and they're migrating to what they think is a safe space? "Haha women get CoNsEqUeNcEs for opening their sloot legs, also any woman in a relationship is a cheating whore" while ignoring that men also contribute to this exact problem but clearly they're not allowed these "consequences" and do cheat as well so... ???

Uh nigga, I don't know what country you live in, but in mine, men do get consequences for having kids out of wedlock. Its call "paying child support until the kid is 17". Conversely, a man gets no say in whether or not a woman aborts his child, whether he wants it or not.

Genuinely want to know how they get along with their mother

I get along fine with my mother, thank you very much, how about you?

If anything, this is living proof that abortions should be allowed so they don't raise anyone to be this retarded due to being neglected or abused because no one wanted them.

The only one being retarded here is you, and I still wouldn't want you aborted.

Having a kid when you know you arent capable of caring for it properly is a selfish choice. Infinitely more selfish than getting an abortion.

I like you to explain how growing up and trying to take care of the child you created through your own foolish action is more selfish than KILLING IT. And if you can't take care of it, there are other options, like adoption. Do you support murdering the children of the poor and drug addicted in the streets just because their parents can't take care of them? Do you support culling orphanages, for the same reason? Think about what you are saying and taking it to its full, natural conclusion.

I'm poor so I have much fewer options. I'm also a paranoid fucker that worries about shit going so taliban that even my decently off friends won't be able to get a safe abortion.

Once again, if you are not having sex with men, you're are probably going to be okay. And even if you do, God forbid, find yourself in this situation, its not the end of the world. Give your kid up for adoption. Give him a chance for a good life. You will be happier you did. And one day, he may thank for giving him a chance.

The US has no excuse having the rate of maternal mortality it does. Wild how you just hand wave that as just an unfortunate circumstance but heaven forbid anyone yeet an embryo.

I handwaved nothing. Even in countries with the lowest risk, the risk is never zero. A woman dying during pregnancy is an unfortunate circumstance. Even with all the medical knowledge and technology we have, we can't completely remove that mortality rate. But it is a circumstance. Abortion is equally tragic, but not in the same way as death during childbirth, with a few exceptions, such as when a mother has to abort her child to save her life. These are horrifying situation right up there with a mother dying during pregnancy, but these types of abortions are thankfully rare. As is abortions for rape, incest, or horrific birth defects. Most abortions are made for other reasons outside of these issues, these so called "hard cases". They are made for economic, personal, or lifestyle reasons, not because anyone's life is in danger. The life threatening situations are unfortunate but sometimes unavoidable. The other situations are completely avoidable.

 

[KEKleon]

Uh nigga, I don't know what country you live in, but in mine, men do get consequences for having kids out of wedlock. Its call "paying child support until the kid is 17". Conversely, a man gets no say in whether or not a woman aborts his child, whether he wants it or not.

Except a lot don't, because a lot are deadbeat dads with either no job or a shit paying one which contributes pretty much nothing to the entire cost of a child form birth to 17. Are you fucking stupid and think only people with money have babies? They get rid of them asap because they can afford it.

The only one being retarded here is you, and I still wouldn't want you aborted.

Wow how benevolent. How's that reasoning retarded? It doesn't take a PhD to realize some kid that exists no one cares about basically gets no care. Legally they'll do the bare minimum because why should they care?

Childhood neglect is rampant in tons of families, specifically from step-parents (ie: "not my kid not my problem"), and poorer families. So raising a kid in a bad environment is ok because at least that means they're alive, no matter the circumstance? Ok I mean I guess Vietnam vets were treated ok when imprisoned because they're not dead.

thanks for your very thoughtful reasoning on why kids need to suffer and so do women.

I get along fine with my mother, thank you very much, how about you?

Only enough to let her keep you under her roof. Bless her soul.

 

[Lemmingwise]

When you can't pound on the argument.... pound on the person.

There's no need to defend yourself @The Demon Pimp of Razgriz

You can go back to the beginning of the thread and see it's that strategy over and over again. Throwing shit at the wall, probing for weakness, using personal attacks.

When you start making too much sense, personal attacks become the next step. Like trying to claim you're new when you've been here for four years.

Stick to the subject, call out the low grade attacks and move. Going on the defensive about your personal situation has no bearing on the status of abortion.

 

[Android raptor]

I like you to explain how growing up and trying to take care of the child you created through your own foolish action is more selfish than KILLING IT. And if you can't take care of it, there are other options, like adoption. Do you support murdering the children of the poor and drug addicted in the streets just because their parents can't take care of them? Do you support culling orphanages, for the same reason? Think about what you are saying and taking it to its full, natural conclusion.


Once again, if you are not having sex with men, you're are probably going to be okay. And even if you do, God forbid, find yourself in this situation, its not the end of the world. Give your kid up for adoption. Give him a chance for a good life. You will be happier you did. And one day, he may thank for giving him a chance.

A fetus is not the same thing as a whole-ass kid. Unless you think children are tiny blobs incapable of any awareness or thoughts parasiticaly attached to the body of someone else.

Though fun fact, the suicide rate for former foster kids and other kids from broken homes is high AF.

Nothing good would happen to anyone if I was forced to gestate and birth the spawn of a rapist (interesting that the hypothetical rape spawn is a he). I can't imagine not only being raped, but then forced to have a fucking thing from that rape destroying your body for months and potentially even killing you. Fuck that. Kill it with fire.

Powerlevel but I was supposedly a wanted, planned pregnancy and I still think I should've been aborted because my parents weren't capable of properly caring for kids. I refuse to make the same mistake.

 

[KEKleon]

When you start making too much sense

Calling women whores for having sex does not qualify as "making too much sense". He never proved any points properly from the beginning to end.

Cry harder about personal attacks but that's literally what he's doing too. Open ya eyesssss

 

[Lemmingwise]

Calling women whores for having sex does not qualify as "making too much sense". He never proved any points properly from the beginning to end.

Cry harder about personal attacks but that's literally what he's doing too. Open ya eyesssss

I've gone back three pages and the only one using the word whore are you and raptor, unless I'm overlooking something.

Can you quote what you are talking about?

Besides, we've had someone go on for two pages about ways to kill newborn babies. I'm surprised you would find the idea of social shaming more offensive and contentious than murder of infants when there is no "it's a clump of cells" or "its a fetus" defense.

 

[Android raptor]

I'm surprised anyone on the Autism Thunderdome would get buttblasted about dead baby jokes when people in A&H routinely go on about killing gay people and black people and muslims and in general treat it as /pol/lite.

I'm an edgy 10 year old boy at heart. I think dead baby jokes are funny.

 

[KEKleon]

I've gone back three pages and the only one using the word whore are you and raptor, unless I'm overlooking something.

Can you quote what you are talking about?

Besides, we've had someone go on for two pages about ways to kill newborn babies. I'm surprised you would find the idea of social shaming more offensive and contentious than murder of infants when there is no "it's a clump of cells" or "its a fetus" defense.

Not even talking about you for the whore shit. It's that guy and the weirdo going off about "foids". Why even take offense if you're trying to take the "righteous and respectful" side and my comment isn't even directed at you for that specific shit.

Who even cares what anyone wants to call it anymore? People will fling shit about for maybe ages to come still thanks to religion ruining a lot of things (mainly scientific progress) for centuries. Thank God religion is going away, though (heh). Social shaming is literally retarded when it's about someone's right to not bring another thing in this world. It has its place but this isn't it because religion had to stick it's creepy "must have more dumb people to extract more money from" shit. It doesn't affect you (directly) whether it exists or not. These kids are never going to be "they could cure cancer" kids.

Condone ruining 2 lives or let 1 stay as they are, the choice is yours.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I'm surprised anyone on the Autism Thunderdome would get buttblasted about dead baby jokes when people in A&H routinely go on about killing gay people and black people and muslims and in general treat it as /pol/lite.

Obvious exageration.

Not even talking about you for the whore shit. It's that guy and the weirdo going off about "foids". Why even take offense if you're trying to take the "righteous and respectful" side and my comment isn't even directed at you for that specific shit.

Who even cares what anyone wants to call it anymore? People will fling shit about for maybe ages to come still thanks to religion ruining a lot of things (mainly scientific progress) for centuries. Thank God religion is going away, though (heh). Social shaming is literally retarded when it's about someone's right to not bring another thing in this world. It has its place but this isn't it because religion had to stick it's creepy "must have more dumb people to extract more money from" shit. It doesn't affect you (directly) whether it exists or not. These kids are never going to be "they could cure cancer" kids.

Condone ruining 2 lives or let 1 stay as they are, the choice is yours.

It's the obvious hipocrisy where calling someone a whore is the worst thing ever but dead babies are fine in the context of abortion.

When it's literally possible to be a whore and prevent conception in the first place.

You don't need religion to think that killing babies, born or unborn, is immoral. And if you think one does, I'd say that is an argument in favor of religion rather than against it.

 

[Android raptor]

Abrahamic religions at least feature a metric fuckton of baby killing. Like that's another thing that baffles me about prolifers, most of them are fundies for a religion whose texts say nothing against abortion and feature a diety that goes on baby killing sprees every time he gets a wild hair up his ass.

Prolifers continue to not understand the difference between a fetus and a baby or the concept of bodily autonomy. Sad.

Perhaps we should harvest organs from prolifers until they understand what bodily autonomy is and why it's important. Or just mandate vasectomy on anyone with a dick starting in puberty that can only be reversed with permission from his wife. I mean, it's no worse than forcing little girls to gestate chomo fetuses and would probably prevent way more pregnancies and thus abortions.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Prolifers continue to not understand the difference between a fetus and a baby or the concept of bodily autonomy. Sad.

Shouldn't matter to you, apparently, because you consider the murder of either fine, right? You went on for pages about it. So now the distinction is suddenly of importance. Why?

 

[KEKleon]

Obvious exageration.


It's the obvious hipocrisy where calling someone a whore is the worst thing ever but dead babies are fine in the context of abortion.

When it's literally possible to be a whore and prevent conception in the first place.

You don't need religion to think that killing babies, born or unborn, is immoral. And if you think one does, I'd say that is an argument in favor of religion rather than against it.

Because whore in those instances serve a retarded purpose and was only used to shit on women as a whole. Dead babies? You mean shedding somewhat benign tumors.

Killing babies when they're already out isn't moral. It sucks. But also it happens probably a lot more than people are aware of. If I had to carry a leech I'm not ready to stop my life and care for it for at least 18 years, I'd literally dump it in a very rural/remote area. Yeeting it out before that point is more moral than it is to kill/neglect it after. Bang boom bam, no lives ruined, problem solved. Except crazy people want those problems (for others) because sex itself is immoral enough to those people and fundies because they hate everyone else and fun and need to feel like they're superior in any way.

How is any of this in favor of religion? Current day religion is an absolute shell of its former self and has some good, but is still filled with sick people who use that label to take advantage of others in any way.

 

[Lemmingwise]

sex itself is immoral enough to those people and fundies because they hate everyone else and fun and need to feel like they're superior in any way

You'd be in good company, then in regards of how to act.

You and raptor make it again abundantly clear that the fetus/baby distinction is mostly arbitrary as you have no less restraints killing a born baby than an unborn one. It's obvious it is laveyan in philosophy, than any coherent moral code.

The fact that you consider social shaming as worse than baby murder on a moral scale of things pretty much says it all to me. How could we have productive discussion after you admit such a warped moral order?

I don't think one requires religion to see that logic. Someone else said you would need religion for it, and that's why I said if that were the case it would be an argument in favor of religion.

I find it hard to know where to begin to explain why. Do I really need to make a case for why social shaming is a lesser evil and in certain cases a moral good, when compared to born baby killing?