The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

You and raptor make it again abundantly clear that the fetus/baby distinction is mostly arbitrary as you have no less restraints killing a born baby than an unborn one.
There's a big distinction, you just choose to believe "well it exists = alive" like that's how you fail a theory class trying to prove anything even if it seems obvious to you. You can't tell me that a plant stalk is exactly the same thing as the fruit it produces. There are distinct stages but you fail to see any of them. If someone gave you skin flakes is that also abortion because by your standard, it is.

I'd get an abortion even though it's expensive, but if I literally had no choice, I'd rather spare a kid the most humane way I have left. It is not my problem if my contraceptives fail because I happen to have a vageen and do everything right. I'm not going to put that problem on anyone else either, so yeetus fetus.

If you're so fine with all these extra kids why don't you just take them all in if you care that much.
 
There's a big distinction, you just choose to believe "well it exists = alive" like that's how you fail a theory class trying to prove anything even if it seems obvious to you. You can't tell me that a plant stalk is exactly the same thing as the fruit it produces. There are distinct stages but you fail to see any of them. If someone gave you skin flakes is that also abortion because by your standard, it is.

I'd get an abortion even though it's expensive, but if I literally had no choice, I'd rather spare a kid the most humane way I have left. It is not my problem if my contraceptives fail because I happen to have a vageen and do everything right. I'm not going to put that problem on anyone else either, so yeetus fetus.

If you're so fine with all these extra kids why don't you just take them all in if you care that much.
I haven't made the case for it yet, because it is obvious it is irrelevant to you whether a fetus is a baby or not. You say you would have no problem killing your baby either. So I ask again (and will probably get no answer again), why the distinction? If you'd kill a baby as easily as a fetus, what does it matter if a fetus is or isn't a baby?
 
Shouldn't matter to you, apparently, because you consider the murder of either fine, right? You went on for pages about it. So now the distinction is suddenly of importance. Why?
Ah yes, because shitposting about dead babies totally means I would actually kill babies IRL. Just like how edgy kids drawing swastikas and saying the gamer word means they're evil white supremacist terrorists that want to literally murder black trans folx of color or some shit.

A lot of abortions happen before it even reaches the fetus stage at 8 weeks. If you think something roughly the size of a blueberry that looks more like a cocktail shrimp than anything, and isn't aware or sentient in any way (not to mention is parasiticaly inside the body of someone) is the exact same thing as a baby, that's your problem.

It's a cliche analogy but if you had a trolley that was going to run over 1 baby or 100 embryos, what would you save?
 
because it is obvious it is irrelevant to you whether a fetus is a baby or not. You say you would have no problem killing your baby either
You never took a proofs class have you

Where did I state I have zero problem with it? I literally told you a post or 2 earlier that doing that would suck. But in your mind because I would do that as a last resort, I fuckin love it.
 
It's a cliche analogy but if you had a trolley that was going to run over 1 baby or 100 embryos, what would you save?
Considering embryo's live in women, I'd save the 200 women and children.

But also on 1v1 basis, since it would be 1v2.

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It's the deep thought forum, people shitpost, but people also get serious. Feel free to correct the record if you think (born) baby murder is immoral. So far you strike me as someone who'd hide behind an irony shield a la nick fuentes, while saying things you actually do kinda mean, even if not that explicit.

So tell me what you really think about a mother killing her recently born child.

For what?? You've never given a straight answer about how a fetus (literally any stage) is also a born baby. You keep saying "umm it is" basically.
Why would you answer a question? Why talk at all about moral and political issues if one is unwilling to answer questions?

You need to improve your reading comprehension. I've said no such thing. I've repeated multiple times that if you're okay with killing born babies, what does the status of an unborn baby / fetus even matter? Why is it relevant to any moral question if you'd kill your born child?

I'd be happy to answer your question, as I've answered your other question straight. Will you answer that single question or will you continue to beat around the bush?
 
Considering embryo's live in women, I'd save the 200 women and children.

But also on 1v1 basis, since it would be 1v2.

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It's the deep thought forum, people shitpost, but people also get serious. Feel free to correct the record if you think (born) baby murder is immoral. So far you strike me as someone who'd hide behind an irony shield a la nick fuentes, while saying things you actually do kinda mean, even if not that explicit.

So tell me what you really think about a mother killing her recently born child.
Embryos can very much live outside people. They can even be frozen for long periods of time. That's how IVF works.

So in the analogy, the embryos are in a freezer like IVF clinics would use. You can save either 100 frozen embryos, or one baby.

Infanticide is shitty, but like I've been saying it's often a result of a lack of access to birth control and abortion. I think, say, a teen girl that gives birth and panics and leaves the baby in the woods or buries the baby made a mistake, but it's not the same thing as Marybeth Tilling killing babies on purpose to get attention and sympathy.

I do admit though yeah, there's a good chance I would kill a baby if I was forced to have it. Might even kill myself or other people depending on the specific nature of mental fuckery and delusions. I'm fucking crazy as it. I could easily see pregnancy and childbirth making me go full Andrea Yates psychotic hearing voices and shit. That's why it's important that if God forbid I ever get pregnant I abort that shit ASAP. I'd rather not spend the rest of my life in jail.

I'm a crazy person that shouldn't reproduce. There are plenty of people like me, including some like Andrea Yates who do make the mistake of reproducing and it ends in horrible tragedy. Best way to prevent tragedies is to make sure us crazy people have access to birth control and abortion.
 
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A fetus is not the same thing as a whole-ass kid.
How? How are they different? How are they different in any way that fundamentally matters? A fetus is no more different from a newborn infant than an infant is from an adult human. They are just different stages of human development. If you take a blood test from a fetus, it would tell you that it was a human being. Do it to an infant, the test would not change, do it to an adult, the test would not change.

Unless you think children are tiny blobs incapable of any awareness or thoughts parasiticaly attached to the body of someone else.
A baby lacks any real form of self-awareness. A newborn is no more capable of thought than a fetus. Is it okay to kill them? And, Jesus Christ, a baby is NOT A PARASITE. First, you use the word consent nonsensically, now you use the word parasitical incorrectly. Parasitism refers to "a symbiotic relationship between species, where one organism, the parasite, lives on or inside another organism, the host, causing it some harm, and is adapted structurally to this way of life". A baby, by definition, cannot be a parasite to the mother's body. It is a natural part of human development. The mother's body is literally made to carry it to term. A parasite is a separate species of creature that invades a host's body and lives off of it in harmful way, or lives off of a host by some other harmful means. That is SCIENCE. According to SCIENCE, a baby cannot be a parasite.

Though fun fact, the suicide rate for former foster kids and other kids from broken homes is high AF.
Irrelevant to whether or not murder should be legal. You can't know if any particular child facing abortion will become suicidal. You cannot know the child's future, we've been over this.

Nothing good would happen to anyone if I was forced to gestate and birth the spawn of a rapist (interesting that the hypothetical rape spawn is a he🤔). I can't imagine not only being raped, but then forced to have a fucking thing from that rape destroying your body for months and potentially even killing you. Fuck that. Kill it with fire.
A) We aren't talking about rape and specifically have not talked about rape, and when rape was mentioned, I specifically singled it out as a special case, because it is, and B) Most pro-life people are willing to accept abortion in cases of rape, making this a moot point.

Powerlevel but I was supposedly a wanted, planned pregnancy and I still think I should've been aborted because my parents weren't capable of properly caring for kids. I refuse to make the same mistake.
That is an extremely...sad, depressing way of viewing yourself and your life.

Abrahamic religions at least feature a metric fuckton of baby killing. Like that's another thing that baffles me about prolifers, most of them are fundies for a religion whose texts say nothing against abortion and feature a diety that goes on baby killing sprees every time he gets a wild hair up his ass.
God's ability to take life is based on the fact that he's man's Creator, and master, effectively, giving him ultimate providence over life and death. Pro-life people recognize that God has the ultimate power over life and death, and mankind does not have the right to snuff out the life of other humans, hence why Christians oppose abortion, murder and (in many cases) the death penalty. And the Christian faith clearly teaches that murdering another human is wrong. Extrapolate that to seeing babies and fetuses as human, and, well, just connect the dots.

Perhaps we should harvest organs from prolifers until they understand what bodily autonomy is and why it's important.
Body autonomy is not the issue here. The issue is whether or not the fetus is a human being, with the same rights as other humans. In that case, it also has body autonomy, and the same rights as the mother otherwise.

I mean, it's no worse than forcing little girls to gestate chomo fetuses
Nobody wants to force little girls to do anything. As I said, most pro-life people support abortion in cases of rape or incest, which this would for sure count.
 
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Nobody wants to force little girls to do anything. As I said, most pro-life people support abortion in cases of rape or incest, which this would for sure count.
So why do the Alabama and Ohio bans make no exception for rape or incest? Why do countries like Malta and Argentina force children who've been raped and impregnated to carry out those pregnancies (or die in the process)? Why have I seen so many prolifers flat out saying they think even children who've been horrifically abused shouldn't have access to abortion?

If you think a baby is the size of a lentil and looks like a cocktail shrimp, that's you. Personally I think babies look more like melting potatoes that anything else, and they certainly are larger than a lentil and do have awareness and shit unless they're fucked up (they also aren't inside someone's body putting their health and life at risk).

Again if a fetus ever gets in my body, it will be removed ASAP. I am the dictator of my body, and I have a strict no-fetus/embryo/zygote rule. You can cry and call it murder all you want, but that shit is getting flushed.

Btw I'm not Christian and since the US is not a theocracy I have no obligation to abide by Christian beliefs.
 
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So in the analogy, the embryos are in a freezer like IVF clinics would use. You can save either 100 frozen embryos, or one baby
I'll give you an answer, but I need to think on it. I'll get back on this. Good job on asking a hard question.

Infanticide is shitty, but like I've been saying it's often a result of a lack of access to birth control and abortion.
That's trying to shift responsibility. The infanticide we describe here is always the result of prefering to murder a baby instead of caring for it or offering it up for adoption.

a teen girl that gives birth and panics and leaves the baby in the woods or buries the baby made a mistake, but it's not the same thing as Marybeth Tilling killing babies on purpose to get attention and sympathy.
What does it matter? Marybeth is not the same as Stalin or any of the historic world leaders sending millions to their deaths. Murder isn't alright even if massmurder also exists. I think it also goes against most instincts if most girls to do as you describe, and girl leaving an innicent and defenseless baby behind is pretty rare. It is not a surprising trait to have been selected for evolutionarily speaking.
 
What does it matter? Marybeth is not the same as Stalin or any of the historic world leaders sending millions to their deaths. Murder isn't alright even if massmurder also exists. I think it also goes against most instincts if most girls to do as you describe, and girl leaving an innicent and defenseless baby behind is pretty rare. It is not a surprising trait to have been selected for evolutionarily speaking.
My instinct when I hear a baby screaming is to get as far away from it as humanely possible. Not all women and girls have maternal instincts. Shit, it's actually pretty common in the animal kingdom for animals to abandon or kill their young if conditions are unfavorable. Some animals are even capable of ending pregnancies and absorbing the fetuses back into their bodies. Unfortunately humans can't do that, which is why we have abortion.

It's fun how you can tell who's capable of getting pregnant in threads like this.
 
My instinct when I hear a baby screaming is to get as far away from it as humanely possible. Not all women and girls have maternal instincts
Yes, but there are already a number of thinks you've mentioned where you deviate far from the norm. I have person close to me from a young age that has a comparable backstory (though being unwanted by both parents) and I've been able to observe the maximum damage such a thing does all the way from childhood to adulthood.

That doesn't mean it isn't still a factor for most girls, even if it isn't for you.
 
Yes, but there are already a number of thinks you've mentioned where you deviate far from the norm. I have person close to me from a young age that has a comparable backstory (though being unwanted by both parents) and I've been able to observe the maximum damage such a thing does all the way from childhood to adulthood.

That doesn't mean it isn't still a factor for most girls, even if it isn't for you.
There are still women and girls who do abandon or kill their babies, and it used to be common as well (shit infanticide was a go to way to get rid of unwanted kids throughout histort). Only reason its fairly rare in the US now is access to contraception and abortion has prevented most of those babies from existing in the first place.

What I went through was fucked and it absolutely would have been more humane to abort me as an embryo. I'm not continuing that cycle
 
Why would you answer a question? Why talk at all about moral and political issues if one is unwilling to answer questions?

You need to improve your reading comprehension. I've said no such thing. I've repeated multiple times that if you're okay with killing born babies, what does the status of an unborn baby / fetus even matter? Why is it relevant to any moral question if you'd kill your born child?

I'd be happy to answer your question, as I've answered your other question straight. Will you answer that single question or will you continue to beat around the bush?
Because the a fetus will eventually be a baby if you're dumb enough to let it happen. Doesn't mean it *is* a baby whatever stage it's at. Politics and all other shit happen to be part of it because that's literally the main point of prolife shit. Why else would they need to get involved in controlling other people's lives/livelihood.

I've fucking told you what the difference is: fetus isn't anything close to a baby. No feeling, no memories, pretty much no fucking function any human has except for existing and having an organ or 2. The fuck do you mean by why does the status of the fetus matter if I'm cool with killing babies? No one's super into murdering someone and it happens all the time out of self-defense. People euthanize pets all the time to end their misery and not suffer anymore. It's basically those 2 concepts, but you wouldn't understand because you will never experience such a thing that is literally inside you. But, like pretty much every guy, none of y'all seem to understand how taxing the entire process of carrying a fetus and squeezing it out is and none of y'all care to fucking know because you're all aware it sucks but it never will happen to you so why should you care.

im not beating around the bush. You are. I've been asking you to prove over and over how a fetus even matters and how it should even be in the same category as human at this point. I'll wait however long it takes for you to remember how proofs work and for you to manage to come up with something that never holds.
 
(shit infanticide was a go to way to get rid of unwanted kids throughout histort

Pretty rare, historically. When the Dutch landed their ship in Japan and studied them (eventually learning to the Dutch learning period), they were completely suprised by the japanese concept of killing their unwanted babies (they did it by stepping on their necks). These world travellers, that had lamded in the americas, in african countries and had considerable knowledge of the baltics, England, France, Spain, were completely surprised that a mother would and could do that.

The fuck do you mean by why does the status of the fetus matter if I'm cool with killing babies? No one's super into murdering someone and it happens all the time out of self-defense
Self-defense.
 
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Pretty rare, historically. When the Dutch landed their ship in Japan and studied them (eventually learning to the Dutch learning period), they were completely suprised by the japanese concept of killing their unwanted babies (they did it by stepping on their necks). These world travellers, that had lamded in the americas, in african countries and had considerable knowledge of the baltics, England, France, Spain, were completely surprised that a mother would and could do that.


Self-defense.
Where them proofs at, I'm not letting you avoid it now.

It's not hard to just go egg=>[explain here why it's the same thing as a human]=>human
 
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Where them proofs at, I'm not letting you avoid it now.

It's not hard to just go egg=>[explain here why it's the same thing as a human]=>human
You still haven't answered my single question and think I would concern myself feom looking up back the source for something I'm sharing with someone else for you?

You're audacious, I'll tell you that much.
 
I was wondering where this thread was.
Perhaps we should harvest organs from prolifers until they understand what bodily autonomy is and why it's important.
1) giving birth is a natural process. Cutting organs out of people, or whatever the pro-abortion gotcha du jour is, is not.
2) it's funny to see pro-abortionists argue for bodily autonomy when they support infringing on the bodily autonomy of the unborn.
 
Pretty rare, historically. When the Dutch landed their ship in Japan and studied them (eventually learning to the Dutch learning period), they were completely suprised by the japanese concept of killing their unwanted babies (they did it by stepping on their necks). These world travellers, that had lamded in the americas, in african countries and had considerable knowledge of the baltics, England, France, Spain, were completely surprised that a mother would and could do that.
Women might not have been doing it as openly in those places, but it absolutely still happened. Even just abandoning babies somewhere usually resulted in them dying.

Fun quote from that article:

"Actual rates of child murder did not significantly decline in Europe until the popularisation of condoms in the late 19th century eliminated much of the necessity. That is: we stopped killing our babies only when we started having fewer of them."
I was wondering where this thread was.

1) giving birth is a natural process. Cutting organs out of people, or whatever the pro-abortion gotcha du jour is, is not.
2) it's funny to see pro-abortionists argue for bodily autonomy when they support infringing on the bodily autonomy of the unborn.
1. Whether it's natural or not, it could save lives. Isn't that supposed to be the primary concern of prolifers? "Saving lives"? Or do the lives of actual people not count?
2. Fetuses don't get bodily autonomy, and even if they did, they still don't have a right to use and endanger someone elses body without consent. If someone else says fuck this shit and yeets a fetus from their body and it dies, that's the fetuses problem (not that a fetus would be aware of said problem or anything for that matter). Not allowing someone or something to use your body isnt infringing on its bodily autonomy.

Btw haven't seen any of the prolife neckbeards here answer if they'd rather save 100 frozen embryos or one baby from a trolley.
 
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