General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

Ok I know you guys have kinda covered some of these issues, but I want to know your thoughts. I have zero interest in vtubers I just lurked the thread thinking it would be some community watch tier autism. But how do you guys feel about the vtuber industry? Especially in comparison to say, the idol industry? I'm asking because to me, this just seems like an extension of it as the girl is the product. My questions are:

1) Do you think this will end up like the idol industry with lots of cases of abuse in the background? What makes you think it wont go that way?

2) You already talked about one vtuber having a stalker, do you think many of the girls are aware of the crazy they are cultivating? Because idolfans are batshit and the parasocial relationship stuff is another reason I see this as idols 2D edition, and it's a legit danger imo.

3) This is KF, you guys should be familiar with how internet careers end up they either don't last or the individual ends up like DSP, hating their videogame playing life but having no exit. How fucked do you think these girls are in a few years when people look at other trends, and the girls all have a hole in their CV saying "played videogames". Internet streaming careers seem like a special kind of hell that fuck you up long term.

Am I wrong in thinking this will be like idolshit, and fuck up everyone involved while fans continue to support the industry? I don't get the appeal of vtubers, and if you enjoy them, you do you. Your thread seems nice enough but I just don't see it working out, especially as the market reaches oversaturation.
Here's my take on why Vtuber/idol is a thing (a little bit long)

Context:
If you remembered some idol-type animes and how those characters (the VAs also play an active role as irl idol for awhile during the contract of 3~5 years). Vtuber idol was a special niche that the girls can stick around forever (they don't have to look good IRL to sell unlike the anime VA-idol hybrid model). Right now Vtuber idol hybrid is still in an earlier state and obviously, we don't want to push it toward the toxic idol direction because that's dumb and I don't think the girl wants it either although some of them looks pretty good IRL (for example, Rushia's roommate is the real-life Eli Ayase in term of look).

Back in the early 2010s when the Japanese push for Seiyuu-idol (voice actresses turn idol) and expect seiyuu was also an idol in a sense (result in today VAs also need to look good along with good acting as the same time). I think the first seiyuu idol concept was HanaKana, who was an idol turn voice acting while keeping idol role (later we had YuiKaori, etc.) Then we have a lot of musical/idol theme anime like Idolm@ster, Love Live, BanG, etc. and the VAs also stick around for roughly 3~5 years per generation to act as said character and being idol in a sense. This creates a ticking time bomb which those VAs were not preparing themselves for the toxicity of the idol culture. For example, the first-gen of Idolm@ster had VA who voice eroge like Imai Asami, Nakamura Eriko, Shimoda Asami etc. (since eroge paid much better than anime). The first Idolm@ster hiccup was the Hase Yurina scandal result in her getting fired from her role. Love live 1st gen also had something similar in case you did not know, it was Emitsun (who was discovered as an amateur AV actress) that cause a meltdown and cancel.

The downside for the VA-idol hybrid model is that there's a certain amount of time which they can sell since they had to put their IRL identity out and some of them might not have the look that sells (not all of them are fashion models or professional singers like Nanjono, Kubo Yurika, Pile, etc.). Vtuber fixes it by eliminating their IRL self out of the picture and try to sell their avatar instead (hence personality > look, so even if you know how their roommate looks like, you still can enjoy their performance as long as they keep 2 things separate).

To answer your question:

1/ I don't think so since the audience is no longer just the Japanese, and western fans can also push back like Towa's case. Sad that Aloe (Delta) folds due to the pressure of crazy gachikois else she would survive just fine like Towa with western fan's support. There's no abuse since there's no such thing as "blacklist" or "sleep your way up" like real-life idol scene because the girls interact with their fan on a daily basis and the management side is purely management with no influence on the girl's content unless legal/safety concern like how Pekora try to make a raffle with her own money for the fan or Haachama try to do RFA with slippery lotions mat they were stopped by the manager.

2/ That's the shitshow of the current Japanese law as a whole with their reactive vs proactive stance (Kiara roommate's recent tweet about being stalk and the police can't do anything unless something actually happens to her). The law needs to change or at least adopt you are innocent till proven guilty (right now they have you are guilty until proven innocent but still so much male-biased).

3/If you think about money then those girls at least are making decent money and paying tax properly. Unlike the western counterpart, as long as they can keep their audience, they can stream for as long as possible (it still count as a media-related / sale career field as they know what sells and what not when it comes to content). Not to mention some of them probably also had proper education and some like Coco who was suspected to have some sort of college degree hence she initially applies for a management job but somehow they push her to debut as 4th Gen. Who knows that maybe later down the route you might see Fubuki replacing A-chan as staff.

Regarding writing CV you have to be creative in writing CV. Instead of "playing video games and streaming" you can write something like "exploring the entertainment market and research on what sells and what not sell to online consummers. In addition, proactively participate in customer services with online customers with counseling, troubleshooting customers' problem".
 
I do hope that if she gets a 3d model for concerts and stuff they don't make the same idol costume. Imagine the reaper in a frilly white dress spitting bars...🤢
I always imagined her having at least a black outfit instead of white. People would probably bitch and complain about “special treatment,” but she’s so different musically and in her style, that it almost justifies it.
 
I do hope that if she gets a 3d model for concerts and stuff they don't make the same idol costume. Imagine the reaper in a frilly white dress spitting bars...🤢
I'm still curious about when they'll be getting their 3D models. I'm guessing it's probably going to be similar to ID who also still don't have their 3D for obvious reasons. Calli however might be the one exception but considering the last few gens have had each member debut their 3D a week after one another (Stars being an exception) I'm not hopeful for it happening before COVID dies down. Especially since the debuts are usually done in the office.

I guess we still have 3D Super Hyper Ultra Ultimate Deluxe Perfect Amazing Shining God 東方不敗 Master Ginga Victory Strong Cute Beautiful Galaxy Baby 無限 無敵 無双 Nenechi to look forward to atleast.

What a shame. Was looking forward to watch the archive.
Her stream has been uploaded to Nyaa.si.
 
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I do hope that if she gets a 3d model for concerts and stuff they don't make the same idol costume. Imagine the reaper in a frilly white dress spitting bars...
I always imagined her having at least a black outfit instead of white. People would probably bitch and complain about “special treatment,” but she’s so different musically and in her style, that it almost justifies it.
Either she or the whole EN branch would get different color outfit because they kinda have to disassociate themselves from the main branch. Same with ID if they ever get one as well.

AZki exists and she's currently the only exception due to INNK probably:
AZKi_-_Nonstop_Story_Full_Illustration.png
Pivoting to Ame though -
What a shame. Was looking forward to watch the archive.
 
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I always imagined her having at least a black outfit instead of white.
Like someone else mentioned, Azki does have a black outfit since she's in a different branch altogether so there is hope. Calli also doesn't fit in with the rest of hololive in terms of musical style either. It's far from the cutesy idol songs the others make. It gets boring and repetitive and I'm glad they finally made something different with Blue Clapper and Suspect.
I'm still curious about when they'll be getting their 3D models.
They might go in a different direction with EN for this one. Calli and Kiara are the only ones who'll benefit from 3d since out of EN only those two have actual performance experience in the past. So I think that even if they were to make idol outfits for the rest of EN I don't think it'll be worth the effort to even train them for singing and dancing (except for Gura maybe).
Cover already seem to want to stray away from the formula for EN since they will apparently not be following the whole "generation" thing for future members.


EDIT: Zombie fell for Kiara's King cover on stream
 
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I dunno, I wouldn't mind seeing Melody's fried brain trying to decipher Divine Cybermancy's writing.
I've heard opinions that even in its original French release the writing is kinda incomprehensible, so people trying to make sense out of it will run into some obstacles, to put it mildly.

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT KIARA

I saw it on twitter and was 100% sure it's an actual cover, so I didn't click it.

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.
 
Looks like drama. Glorious! I predicted these fools would start doxing each other soon and they did.
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Comment with the script. Posted by what appears to be a sock (join date Feb 15 2021)
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Tokyo, commonly referred to as the founder of the popular known discord called vtuber shitshow which first started when he created his channel back in late 2020. I was one of the first to join his community and stated in the past that I was a minor there and later became well known within their server (please remember this piece of information). I started my own channel as their community was being racist and toxic and then started passing vtuber information onto some other discords at that time. Unfortunately, I was removed for supposedly being a traitor as Tokyo was mad that he fact that he lost partnership with the other hololive fan discords in the process (he never told any of us he was partnered up with them nor did I understand why they were partnered up in the first place. They share completely separate morals and beliefs). I will not explain the drama that arose over the course of time as it will take way too long. Just remember that Tokyo was not the most reasonable person to talk to (I can explain this in another video). If you do not know what the term “white knights” mean, please search it up now. Ever since then, white knights have been attacking me as a person, giving me death threats and trying to dox me for supposedly “doxing their favorite vtubers” even though what I have uploaded was not dox. It was information that foreign hololive viewers were not exposed to. Here is a screenshot of one of the very few twitter comments that targeted me (please keep this user in mind).

When I woke up one morning, Tokyo sent me a few screenshots. Within contained his messages with a white knight or the moderator of the subreddit hololive2nd. The messages show that Tokyo has access to my personal information and is freely giving it out to this malicious person. Keep in mind that I never said any of my details. He later screenshares me and I joined his voice call. Here’s what he had to say:
He is informing me on the fact that there are spy admins on my discord server (in which he was correct, they later raided my discord with a bot and banned everyone).
If we stop here, we can see read their chat history. Pause the video if you would like to read it.
Essentially, Tokyo, now is partnering up with the white knights in order to expose me. Here are some screenshots of his reddit page.
I am unable to share this piece of evidence as it can potentially pose serious risks for my safety. The same twitter account from the beginning said the exact same location that Tokyo says right here. I was able to get the screenshot, but I will not be sharing it. The twitter post was made public and his page consistently tagged @POKA_V2. This is true doxing.
As of the current, the twitter account has been deleted by the original user. I suppose you can understand why.
People publicly know that Tokyo is German. The person in that twitter is also German. I have not joined any other discords that contained the bot that would log your location. He shared my information despite knowing the fact that I’m a minor. I can only conclude that the person behind all of this was Tokyo.
His followers may perceive him as a wise person. The white knights may perceive him as a hero. But I, I can only perceive him as a criminal (end).
tl;dr
  • This idiot is a minor
  • He started his own channel citing "racism" and "toxicity" as the reasons (lmao)
  • For some reason his contact info was well known (does this even count as a dox?)
  • He got spammed all over his twitter and email
  • His own server got infiltrated, raided and fucked over
  • He's now being threatened with "personal information" release, possibly IRL (proper) dox
  • He blames the original server admin who apparently did it.
Comments are having none of his shit.
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Video archive:
 
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Kiara understands the struggles of indie content creators. She does have a point in that she posts a picture of her slapdash pasta dinner and someone can post the most delicious looking Italian spread and she'll get more traction just because of who she is and not what she does.

Throw another reason why most of the corpo vtubers are liked so much is because they are fully aware that their fame is the result of absurd luck and they try to remain humble about that. Gura doesn't talk about it much but I'm sure she's overwhelmed by her runaway success.

 
Calli and Kiara are the only ones who'll benefit from 3d since out of EN only those two have actual performance experience in the past.
I’ll have to slightly disagree only because I’ve seen the clips of Gura and Ame using 3D with their past models and they would be a definite watch whenever/if it ever happens. Especially if they did a 3D collab with their chemistry, it would be an absolute blast. If you’re talking strictly performance/music stage wise then yes I would agree with Gura being an exception cause she has the singing down and just needs the dance (unless she has some skills that we don’t know about in the department too). The only person I see not totally benefiting from 3D would be Ina only for the sole reason that we haven’t seen what she could do with a 3D model. She seems to be best suited with 2D as the artsy sit at a desk and just draw type of person and not move around a lot. Doesn’t mean I don’t wanna see her in 3D someday though.
 
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The downside for the VA-idol hybrid model is that there's a certain amount of time which they can sell since they had to put their IRL identity out and some of them might not have the look that sells.
Or you can be living waifu MARRY ME Amamiya Sora who fits the bill to a 'T' but has flat out refused/contradicted the idol name. Really, I think the 'fans' (or if your feeling blunt, psychos) care more about the title than the actual person.
Regarding writing CV you have to be creative in writing CV. Instead of "playing video games and streaming" you can write something like "exploring the entertainment market and research on what sells and what not sell to online consummers. In addition, proactively participate in customer services with online customers with counseling, troubleshooting customers' problem".
The thing about any application is that you have to know how to express the work you've done, and the work you can do. The whole 'sell yourself' schtick is right. . . but it also leads to hacks who 'sell' the fact that they started a Skype meeting on their LinkdIN profile. Any of these VTubers that have a modicum of success, and especially those working under a company or agency, have a solid grounding they can work with. They're earners.
I always imagined her having at least a black outfit instead of white. People would probably bitch and complain about “special treatment,” but she’s so different musically and in her style, that it almost justifies it.
AZki exists and she's currently the only exception due to INNK probably:
Either she or the whole EN branch would get different color outfit because they kinda have to disassociate themselves from the main branch. Same with ID if they ever get one as well.

AZki exists and she's currently the only exception due to INNK probably:
Either they keep all of them to the same color scheme, or. . .

I'd like to think they give ID a red theme to match the ID flag since they are officially centered on a separate country which uses red as a primary color (the other being HoloJP white). White would be replaced with personal colors giving them each a unique design but similar theme in tandem to JP.

The EN crew is a 'world-wide' organization; it caters to a community that isn't tied to any single country in particular. So I'd venture that they will have an inverse of the color scheme that JP has to serve as a mirror. The main portion of the outfit (where the white or red of the others dominates) would be personal colors. The accents (where the personal symbols or filigree show) would then mirror the white and light blue of HoloLive.

And now I've suddenly become Queer Eye for the Weeb Guy, so I'm probably going to have to find that Emitsun video to get back to normal.

Looks like drama.
Looks like civil war. Perfect.
 
Looks like drama. Glorious! I predicted these fools would start doxing each other soon and they did.
View attachment 1930244
Comment with the script
View attachment 1930225
Tokyo, commonly referred to as the founder of the popular known discord called vtuber shitshow which first started when he created his channel back in late 2020. I was one of the first to join his community and stated in the past that I was a minor there and later became well known within their server (please remember this piece of information). I started my own channel as their community was being racist and toxic and then started passing vtuber information onto some other discords at that time. Unfortunately, I was removed for supposedly being a traitor as Tokyo was mad that he fact that he lost partnership with the other hololive fan discords in the process (he never told any of us he was partnered up with them nor did I understand why they were partnered up in the first place. They share completely separate morals and beliefs). I will not explain the drama that arose over the course of time as it will take way too long. Just remember that Tokyo was not the most reasonable person to talk to (I can explain this in another video). If you do not know what the term “white knights” mean, please search it up now. Ever since then, white knights have been attacking me as a person, giving me death threats and trying to dox me for supposedly “doxing their favorite vtubers” even though what I have uploaded was not dox. It was information that foreign hololive viewers were not exposed to. Here is a screenshot of one of the very few twitter comments that targeted me (please keep this user in mind).

When I woke up one morning, Tokyo sent me a few screenshots. Within contained his messages with a white knight or the moderator of the subreddit hololive2nd. The messages show that Tokyo has access to my personal information and is freely giving it out to this malicious person. Keep in mind that I never said any of my details. He later screenshares me and I joined his voice call. Here’s what he had to say:
He is informing me on the fact that there are spy admins on my discord server (in which he was correct, they later raided my discord with a bot and banned everyone).
If we stop here, we can see read their chat history. Pause the video if you would like to read it.
Essentially, Tokyo, now is partnering up with the white knights in order to expose me. Here are some screenshots of his reddit page.
I am unable to share this piece of evidence as it can potentially pose serious risks for my safety. The same twitter account from the beginning said the exact same location that Tokyo says right here. I was able to get the screenshot, but I will not be sharing it. The twitter post was made public and his page consistently tagged @POKA_V2. This is true doxing.
As of the current, the twitter account has been deleted by the original user. I suppose you can understand why.
People publicly know that Tokyo is German. The person in that twitter is also German. I have not joined any other discords that contained the bot that would log your location. He shared my information despite knowing the fact that I’m a minor. I can only conclude that the person behind all of this was Tokyo.
His followers may perceive him as a wise person. The white knights may perceive him as a hero. But I, I can only perceive him as a criminal (end).
Archiving video rn

 
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The first Idolm@ster hiccup was the Hase Yurina scandal result in her getting fired from her role. Love live 1st gen also had something similar in case you did not know, it was Emitsun (who was discovered as an amateur AV actress) that cause a meltdown and cancel.
Some corrections: Hase Yurina wasn't fired. Apparently she came out on her Twitter years after the fact and revealed that her agency pulled her from the show because of death threats she was receiving that made it impossible for her to go out and perform or sing music. She even had a hand in choosing her own replacement.

Second, it has apparently been proven later that Emitsun, in fact, didn't work work in porn, and that was a hoax that someone perpetuated. Here is a Tumblr post collating the information. Be sure to read all of the edits at the bottom. Wikipedia's article on her also mentions the issue, and notes that S-inc., who I believe released the porn she was accused of being in (EDIT: Correction, I think it was her agency at the time of the scandal), denied her involvement. Also, to my knowledge, she was not let go.

Second Edit: Here is a Youtube video by the sleuths that figured out that the Emitsun situation was BS.
 
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Shuba shuba nanodesu collab

Rushia fulfilling Subaru's last wish before ending the collab.

Hololive is an idol :tomgirl: company.

Cultured man Yokochi followed ELITE back

Lamy is the strongest snow elf, will bust out icicles with bare hands. Coming from the elf who doesn't like the cold as part of her lore.

Nenechi with her shachou instinct.

Longer version of Ollie's reaction to Kiara's cover

Props for her for having both the pants and nopants version

There is actually a Shark brand of vacuum cleaners.
Can't wait for Gura getting sponsored by said brand. The catchphrase will be "This vacuum cleaner will fulfill your SUCC demands".

EDIT: lmao YAGOO. Saw this from reddit.
dzdgxmywu8i61.jpg
 
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