Genuine Conversation in the Year of Our Lord Twenty-Thousand and Twenty-One

[Tingle]

When was the last time you or someone you know had an honest, legitimate discussion about something beyond the most surface-level exchange of opinion or news? I hate to pull out the NPC meme but these days it feels genuinely impossible to either talk to someone about a serious topic respectfully or hold a conversation longer than a few sentences. Want to talk about something aside from the weather, sports or politics? Too bad, nobody cares.

Even in this godforsaken digital age you would think finding someone willing to discuss things at length or confide in would be easier than ever, but that's rarely the case. Beyond the odd forum or instant message, it seems like everyone is just intent on being the wittiest, snarkiest son of a bitch in town. And if you do try to engage with someone they're often unwilling to talk anyway.

Why is this?

Is it because people are afraid of discussing divisive subjects, for fear of pissing people off or causing a scene?
Do people not feel confident in sharing their opinions or beliefs?
Has the world become obsessed with accruing the most social karma for quipping conversation short?
Is everyone secretly a smoothbrain with no conscious thought or insight?
Or am I just a social retard who's whinging out the ass?

 

[Blasterisk]

Counterthunk: NPC is not a meme or a birth condition, but a lifestyle.

The total lack of hardship in western life has poorly equipped those same people to exist when things =/= easy. The NPC inoffensiveness may be a reactionary shell, even though the proper solution to difficult situations is critical/rational thinking.

 

[TFT-A9]

I think part of it stems from how incredibly risk-averse people have become.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

I don't know about you guys, but I've had in-depth conversations with people pretty frequently in the past year. Maybe try not being pussies who're terrified of being canceled.

 

[Red Hood]

Had a decent in-depth debate about Harley Davidson versus Triumph with a co-worker recently but that's about it.

 

[Blacklight]

One of my co-workers at work often helps me get lost in multi hour long discussions on crypto currency and the like. Something with that much depth is actually quite nice to look forward to.

 

[Agarathium1066]

I've had a number of deep conversations with people about several topics but none of them touched political or major social issues. A good number were about entertainment (games, their creation, shows and their creation) which did sometimes skip into the overarching aims and messages of what the people may or may not be trying to push.

I think @Wasteland Ranger is dead on with it being a large amount of risk aversion. When people are so hair-trigger and you cannot necessarily be sure if someone is before establishing a deeper understanding it means you're pushing the thought deeper into your mind. It begins to become taboo purely because one wouldn't want to rock the boat or cause any trouble. It's made worse by people who will dig up anything you've said or reacted to previously so they can tilt at you to prove their gallantry woke cocksuckery.

Some will eventually come to overcome the hurdle of fear, others will remain silent and utterly featureless until they feel relatively sure they're not about to be stabbed in the back. Woe betide them as that's how the real backstabbers get their clout, by ingratiating themselves in a community then tearing out its guts.

 

[TFT-A9]

There's likely also a certain amount of "why bother, what's in this for me" for people these days - which could indicate a number of things. If it stems from a "not going to throw pearls before the swine" mentality, that's indicative of supercilious asshattery which may or may not be borne forth by past personal experiences. If it stems from a "it's not like anything's going to change for the better" mentality, this person might be expecting a bit much from discourse to begin with. Probably a number of other explanations, but you combine that with any perceived risk and now you're doing risk-reward calculations in your head for fucking CONVERSATIONS.

 

[Bongocat]

I explicitly avoid deeper conversations with people that I do not already intimately know. The reason being that literally absolutely every fucking subject drifts into politics these days. Not only do I NOT want to talk about that, but you'd have to have a screw loose to do so. I don't believe this social situation is fixable at this point, and it's one of the big reasons why I'm dedicated to getting out of the US.

 

[Trappin in the Trap]

Try having friends or something.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

I think part of it stems from how incredibly risk-averse people have become.

There's likely also a certain amount of "why bother, what's in this for me" for people these days - which could indicate a number of things. If it stems from a "not going to throw pearls before the swine" mentality, that's indicative of supercilious asshattery which may or may not be borne forth by past personal experiences. If it stems from a "it's not like anything's going to change for the better" mentality, this person might be expecting a bit much from discourse to begin with. Probably a number of other explanations, but you combine that with any perceived risk and now you're doing risk-reward calculations in your head for fucking CONVERSATIONS.

People need to fundamentally understand that being alive is a risk. Everything is risky. You take your life in your hands by eating cereal every day- there's a non-zero chance that you choke to death on it, after all. Walk by someone on the street? That person could be a maniac with a knife or gun in their coat, and them seeing you is what sets them off and leads them to kill you. Bacon shaves hours off of your life every time you eat it. Your air freshener probably contains low- but significant- levels of carcinogens.
Faced with this truth, people can have two responses. The first is to become a phobic wreck, crippled by neuroses and performing risk-reward calculations for every little thing in their life, retreating into their own little worlds where they see everything outside their nanoscopic bubble as a threat to them in some way. This, bluntly, generally happens when people don't have anything genuinely bad happen to them in their whole life, or have something bad happen to them and fail to ever recover from it. The second response- the healthy one- is to realize that understanding life's fragility and the countless perils therein changes nothing about the world. You lived your life up until the present moment in a way that made you happy, and you didn't magically get killed by any of the ten thousand things that lie 99% outside of your control. Why should the fact that you now know something that's almost entirely outside of your control might destroy you at any second change your mind?
TL;DR people need more fatalism in their lives.

 

[Maurice Caine]

You don't need to look far, just go to the Anime/Manga thread.

 

[An Account]

I have lots of decent conversations with my friends IRL, and even online I have good, even enlightening conversations with people about topics like programming, guns, history, etc. So, maybe get some irl friends, or find a hobby group to join? Your social life is something you've got to work for, it isn't just gonna be handed over to you.

 

[Lemmingwise]

When was the last time you or someone you know had an honest, legitimate discussion about something beyond the most surface-level exchange of opinion or news? I hate to pull out the NPC meme but these days it feels genuinely impossible to either talk to someone about a serious topic respectfully or hold a conversation longer than a few sentences. Want to talk about something aside from the weather, sports or politics? Too bad, nobody cares.

Even in this godforsaken digital age you would think finding someone willing to discuss things at length or confide in would be easier than ever, but that's rarely the case. Beyond the odd forum or instant message, it seems like everyone is just intent on being the wittiest, snarkiest son of a bitch in town. And if you do try to engage with someone they're often unwilling to talk anyway.

Why is this?

Is it because people are afraid of discussing divisive subjects, for fear of pissing people off or causing a scene?
Do people not feel confident in sharing their opinions or beliefs?
Has the world become obsessed with accruing the most social karma for quipping conversation short?
Is everyone secretly a smoothbrain with no conscious thought or insight?
Or am I just a social retard who's whinging out the ass?

Two to three times a week, because I never suffered NPC's.

I don't know how it is for americans, but the problem with Dutch people has generally been that a lot hadlve their heads in the sand. I often ran into "what does it matter?".

But now even people I barely know ask me if I believe politicians drink baby blood in casual conversation. Corona has done wonders for people's willingness to believe some people in power might be evil.

I think the key two elements for such a conversation to take place are:
1. Are they at risk of being cancelled? (It's unproffesional in the work place and why give anyone leverage over you?)
2. Do they trust you?
(People often trust me quickly)

I don't know about you guys, but I've had in-depth conversations with people pretty frequently in the past year. Maybe try not being pussies who're terrified of being canceled.

.The first is to become a phobic wreck, crippled by neuroses and performing risk-reward calculations for every little thing in their life, retreating into their own little worlds where they see everything outside their nanoscopic bubble as a threat to them in some way. This, bluntly, generally happens when people don't have anything genuinely bad happen to them in their whole life, or have something bad happen to them and fail to ever recover from it. The second response- the healthy one- is to realize that understanding life's fragility and the countless perils therein changes nothing about the world. You lived your life up until the present moment in a way that made you happy, and you didn't magically get killed by any of the ten thousand things that lie 99% outside of your control. Why should the fact that you now know something that's almost entirely outside of your control might destroy you at any second change your mind?
TL;DR people need more fatalism in their lives.

I think they're more just risk calculations.

Risk/reward calculations are just a rational way to look at things and life is full of low risk/high reward situations (like talking to a stranger on the street) that people don't take because there is a negligible risk (that feels huge).

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I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. It sounds like something a lot of people should hear.

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Though with the slight addendum that this is easier with some views than others.

 

[TerribleIdeas™]

I think they're more just risk calculations.

Risk/reward calculations are just a rational way to look at things and life is full of low risk/high reward situations (like talking to a stranger on the street) that people don't take because there is a negligible risk (that feels huge).

---

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. It sounds like something a lot of people should hear.

---

Though with the slight addendum that this is easier with some views than others.

The only problem with "more fatalism" is that there are large portions of "online society" that will happily do their damnedest to fuck people over for dumb shit, or shit that wasn't offensive when it occurred. I'd say this is solved by avoiding social media, but I have suspicions that it won't be enough, if cancel-happy retards have their way.

 

[Lemmingwise]

The only problem with "more fatalism" is that there are large portions of "online society" that will happily do their damnedest to fuck people over for dumb shit, or shit that wasn't offensive when it occurred. I'd say this is solved by avoiding social media, but I have suspicions that it won't be enough, if cancel-happy retards have their way.

Forums are also social media.

Though I thought we were talking about offline discussion?

 

[TerribleIdeas™]

Forums are also social media.

Though I thought we were talking about offline discussion?

There's been at least 2 Nascar-related attempts at cancelling people for shit that didn't happen on social media, and were merely transmitted via social media. Those are the 2 things that stand out most, in my mind, but I'm sure there's additional boatloads. Social media aids the Maoist "struggle sessions", but as Maoist China shows, it isn't necessary to have social media to conduct the process.

 

[Cabelaz]

Go make some friends. I've been with the same group of 10 guys for about 21 years now. I can talk about anything with those fuckers.
I never understood the precedent where people believe they deserve intellectual discussion on the internet.
The internet is for porn and shitposting

 

[Bad Gateway]

Every day. Log off. There's an entire world out there where none of what you do with your time even exists.

 

[Not Really Here]

Retards can't ask questions, they just apply their expectations and convert your statement into whatever they already assumed you're going to say.