TGWTG Nostalgia Chick / Lindsay Ellis / TheDudette - aka Hotdogs in face girl

[Jonah Hill poster]

Twitter nuts: "Trans people need rights!"
Me: "Well that sounds reasonable. All people have natural rights and all that"
Twitter nuts: "WE NEED TO PUT CHILDREN ON PUBERTY BLOCKERS!!!"
Me: "Um...what the fuck?"

That's where that portion of the LGBTQ movement always loses me. Please explain to me why you need control and influence over other people's kids. Its creepy.

 

[The Rockafire Explosion]

She also talks about the Silence of the Lambs (again, predictable,) and at one point uses Gumb's desire for surgery as an indication of his sincerity as a troon (I wonder what she'd have to say about the likes of DSP and Yaniv, who by this logic are also True and Honest troons.)

I always thought the Woke hated Silence of the Lambs because Lecter's line about Buffalo Bill, "He's not a real transsexual, but he thinks he is," hits a little too close to home for the transtrenders.

 

[Minionlover98]

Seeing as you’re not excited by Lindsay’s analysis, would you consider this to be any better?

Unpopular opinion, but I thought that was an interesting watch

I'm probably just a sucker of "where are they now" types and a series exampling "why this past thing was remembered and liked" is always great that isn't form moviebob

Pretty by the books though

Jenny Nicholson voiceovers

Don't forget voiceovers of Dan Olsen, Hbomberguy, and InnuendoStudios!
I love the smell of white libreals circle jerking in the morning

 

[Polexia Aphrodisia]

Seeing as you’re not excited by Lindsay’s analysis, would you consider this to be any better?

I really like OHW since it's minimally opinion-based. But in this case, I watched this one and can't remember a thing about it after seeing you post it again.

 

[Ninon42]

I really like OHW since it's minimally opinion-based. But in this case, I watched this one and can't remember a thing about it after seeing you post it again.

Same, OHW and Trainwreckords are usually my favorites but lately they just haven't been landing. The next one out is Return of the Mack and it looks to be more of the same. Honestly, I think part of it is actually Lindsay's influence, as he moved out to California and started sounding just like her and her squad again, and that means being an arrogant asshole. They all have the same inflection and attempts at humor, so similar it's kinda off-putting. The last podcast featured one of Lindsay's writers (Angelina) and it was painful for many reasons, not the least of which being she sounds EXACTLY like Lindsay. Tone, inflection, laugh, all the same with a lot of horny on main thrown in for quirky theater girl spice. Ugh.

Edit to add more shit, since I brought up the podcast. Todd's co-host and best friend has now gone full troon because of course he did.

 

[PeriodicTrouble]

Same, OHW and Trainwreckords are usually my favorites but lately they just haven't been landing. The next one out is Return of the Mack and it looks to be more of the same. Honestly, I think part of it is actually Lindsay's influence, as he moved out to California and started sounding just like her and her squad again, and that means being an arrogant asshole. They all have the same inflection and attempts at humor, so similar it's kinda off-putting. The last podcast featured one of Lindsay's writers (Angelina) and it was painful for many reasons, not the least of which being she sounds EXACTLY like Lindsay. Tone, inflection, laugh, all the same with a lot of horny on main thrown in for quirky theater girl spice. Ugh.

They're called NPCs for a reason.

 

[Random Internet Person]

. The next one out is Return of the Mack

Well, wait no more.

 

[Bani]

Same, OHW and Trainwreckords are usually my favorites but lately they just haven't been landing. The next one out is Return of the Mack and it looks to be more of the same. Honestly, I think part of it is actually Lindsay's influence, as he moved out to California and started sounding just like her and her squad again, and that means being an arrogant asshole. They all have the same inflection and attempts at humor, so similar it's kinda off-putting. The last podcast featured one of Lindsay's writers (Angelina) and it was painful for many reasons, not the least of which being she sounds EXACTLY like Lindsay. Tone, inflection, laugh, all the same with a lot of horny on main thrown in for quirky theater girl spice. Ugh.
View attachment 1961652

Edit to add more shit, since I brought up the podcast. Todd's co-host and best friend has now gone full troon because of course he did.

I don't even know who the fuck this guy is and I saw him trooning out a mile off. I watched one video with him in it and I remember him sperging about his gender at one point. I wanna say it was their video about the VMAs.

LOL. Exactly. The Patroclus/Achilles slash craze came a few centuries after the Iliad was written. So, Plato's time. Fifth century Athenians elites were a bunch of creepy fujioshis, gaying up all their great-grandpa's old stories just like the friggen Sherlock fandom today. You read the actual Iliad, and Achilles throws a hissy fit and sits out half of the book because Agamemnon steals his captive bedwarmer, and Patroclus' bit of war booty cries over his body after he dies like, 'He was the nicest rapist a girl could ever ask for.' The Iliad is only about a narrow conflict within the greater Trojan war. The war has already been going on when the poem starts, and it isn't close to done when the poem ends. It is the epic tale of the fallout of one man's cockblocking.

People forget that ancient cultures existed and evolved for centuries. It's hard to make accurate blanket statements like, "Ancient Greeks did this/believed that. Or Romans, or Egyptians." Even their 'stories' changed over time, it would be like asking a random British kid from every decade the story of Robin Hood, and having it change depending on if they grew up with Errol Flynn or Disney gateway furs. Ancient Greece got progressively more obsessed with teh big geh, sliding into the Hellenistic period, where Alexander the Great and his boyfriend went to Troy and laid flowers at Achilies and Patroclus' going, "OMG they were so like us amirite!?"

All this to say, Lyndsay, If you're gonna cite a myth in your video essay, give the specific version you're citing. The date and presumed provenance plz.

I don't think you know what a fujoshi is. It literally translates to "rotten girl," not "elderly pervert in Hellenistic Greece." Also, interpretations of the relationship between the two characters as romantic predate the Hellenistic period. Because of their cultural significance, some of the additions to the story made by Hellenistic poets are often accepted as being part of the "canon" of the narrative. This isn't unreasonable when you consider that scholars aren't even sure the Odyssey and the Iliad where written by one person. The accepted belief is that the epics of Homer existed as an oral tradition long before they were transcribed, and that they cannot truly be said to have a sole author. No author means no single authorial intent; it is entirely possible that the interpretation shifted between orators, much like a game of telephone.

Spoiler: Iliad autism

Briseis was a slave, chattel basically, that Achilles decides he'd like to marry on account of Patroclus advocating for her. That said, fucking slaves and other soldiers was not considered infidelity; Achilles' fleeting desire to marry Briseis does not run contradictory to the interpretation of him being romantically involved with Patroclus. Her significance is equal parts "war trophy" and love interest. Achilles abstaining from the siege was not a gesture of fealty to her-- it was literally to spite Agamemnon, who basically stole Achilles' glory by kidnapping her. The crux of the story is that Achilles' rage at the loss of Patroclus is the only thing that outweighs his pride; why Patroclus's death was so significant to him is up to interpretation. It's very easy to see why the interpretation of the characters as lovers is so popular, given passages like this:

(Spoken by Patroclus as a ghost) "One prayer more will I make you, if you will grant it; let not my bones be laid apart from yours, Achilles, but with them; even as we were brought up together in your own home, what time Menoitios brought me to you as a child from Opoeis because by a sad spite I had killed the son of Amphidamas - not of set purpose, but in childish quarrel over the dice. The horseman Peleus took me into his house, entreated me kindly, and named me to be your squire [therapôn]; therefore let our bones lie in but a single urn, the two-handled golden vase given to you by your mother."

By no means am I saying that this interpretation is objectively correct-- I'm saying that there's no clear-cut right or wrong here. It's fucking retarded to squawk at people for thinking two fictional characters from three thousand years ago were a couple when the narrative doesn't explicitly contradict that. Actually, it's retarded to screech at people over fictional characters period. A lot of important people throughout history interpreted the characters as a couple, die mad about it.

 

[stuffandthings]

I don't even know who the fuck this guy is and I saw him trooning out a mile off. I watched one video with him in it and I remember him sperging about his gender at one point. I wanna say it was their video about the VMAs.


I don't think you know what a fujoshi is. It literally translates to "rotten girl," not "elderly pervert in Hellenistic Greece." Also, interpretations of the relationship between the two characters as romantic predate the Hellenistic period. Because of their cultural significance, some of the additions to the story made by Hellenistic poets are often accepted as being part of the "canon" of the narrative. This isn't unreasonable when you consider that scholars aren't even sure the Odyssey and the Iliad where written by one person. The accepted belief is that the epics of Homer existed as an oral tradition long before they were transcribed, and that they cannot truly be said to have a sole author. No author means no single authorial intent; it is entirely possible that the interpretation shifted between orators, much like a game of telephone.

Spoiler: Iliad autism

Briseis was a slave, chattel basically, that Achilles decides he'd like to marry on account of Patroclus advocating for her. That said, fucking slaves and other soldiers was not considered infidelity; Achilles' fleeting desire to marry Briseis does not run contradictory to the interpretation of him being romantically involved with Patroclus. Her significance is equal parts "war trophy" and love interest. Achilles abstaining from the siege was not a gesture of fealty to her-- it was literally to spite Agamemnon, who basically stole Achilles' glory by kidnapping her. The crux of the story is that Achilles' rage at the loss of Patroclus is the only thing that outweighs his pride; why Patroclus's death was so significant to him is up to interpretation. It's very easy to see why the interpretation of the characters as lovers is so popular, given passages like this:

(Spoken by Patroclus as a ghost) "One prayer more will I make you, if you will grant it; let not my bones be laid apart from yours, Achilles, but with them; even as we were brought up together in your own home, what time Menoitios brought me to you as a child from Opoeis because by a sad spite I had killed the son of Amphidamas - not of set purpose, but in childish quarrel over the dice. The horseman Peleus took me into his house, entreated me kindly, and named me to be your squire [therapôn]; therefore let our bones lie in but a single urn, the two-handled golden vase given to you by your mother."

By no means am I saying that this interpretation is objectively correct-- I'm saying that there's no clear-cut right or wrong here. It's fucking retarded to squawk at people for thinking two fictional characters from three thousand years ago were a couple when the narrative doesn't explicitly contradict that. Actually, it's retarded to screech at people over fictional characters period. A lot of important people throughout history interpreted the characters as a couple, die mad about it.

A fujoshi is weeb girl who fantasizes about gay relationships. Many classical Greeks fantasized about gay relationships. I was making a joke. It's like saying that Luke Skywalker was a redneck. I'm neither saying that he has a literal red neck, nor am I saying he's a midwestern farmer.

I hear you. I get what you're saying. I understand that most Ancient Greeks didn't think in terms of being exclusively homosexual. That Briseis doesn't preclude Patroclus. But scholars do agree that most of the text of The Iliad as we have it now was written down by a single author at a point in time. And they never explicitly are teh geh in the story. So people who try to SAY that they were banging in the Iliad itself as an example of how gay the past was are being incorrect. They have a million more accurate examples to pull from. And THAT'S what I'm squawking about. People using examples they don't really understand.

The Iliad =/= The Trojan War myth. It is a poem covering a part of that myth.

 

[Ninon42]

Well, wait no more.

Joy of joys, mediocrity abounds. I watched this and went down a Twitter rabbithole and found out that Todd's sister-in-law is a furry, furaffinity account and all. The exceptionalness of this group is a fucking contagion.

Edit to stay on topic: Lindsay sans makeup. Has her facebook already been posted? And as an aside, I don't think the guy Mike Rugnetta from the OP is Lindsay's husband. According to Wikipedia at least, he's married to Molly Templeton aka Mememolly.

 

[PeriodicTrouble]

Lindsay responded to criticisms about Axiom's End, particularly about how people say it's derivative of transformers.
https://archive.md/1RW91

 

[Polexia Aphrodisia]

Lindsay responded to criticisms about Axiom's End, particularly about how people say it's derivative of transformers.
https://archive.md/1RW91

"You GUYS just don't UNDERSTAND how haaaaaard it is to write a book!!!! I'm a QUEER WOMAN ONLINE, I can't be held to the standards I hold literally everyone else to!!"

 

[Calculus]

JKR bases a character on herself and is open about doing this
= "Such a bad writer!"

Lindsay rips off Transformers
= "It's an homage! I referenced it so stop being petty and holding me to the standards of real writers!"

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Lindsay responded to criticisms about Axiom's End, particularly about how people say it's derivative of transformers.
https://archive.md/1RW91

You know she does seem overly defensive about this point, almost like she's trying to make sure she says homage enough times to not be sued.

 

[Ultrapenguin]

I wish these clowns would actually read what Rowling said, because she's not the "TERF ringleader," she's a libfem that's somewhat GC-- TERF lite, I guess you could say. Her stance is basically that troons are fine as long as they're not drugging kids or undermining issues of female biology like abortion and FGM. That's not even being a TERF; being supportive of troons so long as kids and sports aren't involved is basically the position most normies have.

That's the thing though, as a semi-sane person (you're on the farms, so you can't be totally sane even if you started out that way) you're tempted to think "They keep saying [insert group] are hateful, but most of us aren't, we just don't agree with their stance. Surely if I try to be patient and calmly explain why I believe what I do as honestly and clearly as I can, even if they aren't persuaded they would have to at least recognize that those who disagree with them aren't doing so out of prejudice".
Unfortunately, the tragic truth is that there really are people out there who can't be reasoned with no matter how hard you try, because in their mind everyone is binarily either good or bad, and due to some kind of complex anything except absolute subservience places you in the latter category...

Her stance is basically that troons are fine as long as...

They stopped listening right there. Not only has she committed the crime of being more wealthy and influential than they are, but she also suggested that it's possible for them to do something that would NOT be fine; at that point there's nothing left except figuring out the best way to inform everyone of her bigotry in 140 characters or less.

 

[LionoRaptor]

I don't really care for her politics etc. She may be a hardcore lib but I will say I learnt a lot of new things thanks to Lindsey Ellis. I learnt about film theory due to Transformers, the history of Notre Dame, Cats and why Tom Hooper is a bad director of musicals.

Plus I learnt the tortured history of the Hobbit films how PJ got fucked over and the whole New Zealand film industry went into the toilet thanks to WB.

At least she was educational.

 

[Trig.Point]

Plus I learnt the tortured history of the Hobbit films how PJ got fucked over and the whole New Zealand film industry went into the toilet thanks to WB.

She's wrong about the New Zealand film industry. It went into the Toilet because it was as cheap to shoot films within 30 miles of Holywood as it was there.

People tried to explain to New Zealand trade unions that the inherent costs of shooting in New Zealand which is extremely gegraphically remote, meant that say a boom operator in Auckland was never going to be paid the same as one in Hollywood (where the cost of living is far higher).

If New Zealand had played their cards right they could have rivalled Canada, instead the industry has collapsed to the point, where even indigenous productions are struggling.

Incidentally a lot of Lindsay Ellis's talking points in her Hobbit documentary are directly from US trade unions press releases. A group that would prefer if nothing was produced in NZ, and US companies were forced to use US Union labor for all productions.

Also Taika Waititi shot Thor Ragnarok in Australia and is still loved in New Zealand, Peter Jackson insisted on shooting the Mortal Engines in New Zealand and is stil hated by people that think he somehow screwed NZ over.

 

[Water-T]

I love this lame defense so much: "but the Bumblebee comparison just reveals an ignorance of how publishing works & how long getting a book published takes. my agent picked up the book in oct 2018. Bumblebee was released in Dec 2018. St Martins Press bought axiom’s end in Jan 2019. I didn’t write it in a month lol"

Because no one has ever wrote a book in a month, Lindsay. Not to mention that if it the book rights were bought in Jan 2019 and the book didn't drop until July 2020, that there was plenty of time for you to lift major parts from the TF film series? If Lindsay had presented drafts made before the release of Bumblebee as proof, then I could buy that, but her "defense" here is weaker than her pickled liver.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I love this lame defense so much: "but the Bumblebee comparison just reveals an ignorance of how publishing works & how long getting a book published takes. my agent picked up the book in oct 2018. Bumblebee was released in Dec 2018. St Martins Press bought axiom’s end in Jan 2019. I didn’t write it in a month lol"

Because no one has ever wrote a book in a month, Lindsay. Not to mention that if it the book rights were bought in Jan 2019 and the book didn't drop until July 2020, that there was plenty of time for you to lift major parts from the TF film series? If Lindsay had presented drafts made before the release of Bumblebee as proof, then I could buy that, but her "defense" here is weaker than her pickled liver.

Also, she was tweeting about having to do rewrites in order to make things clearer to the audience in that time frame. How much did she rewrite? For all we know she ripped off Bumblebee in a lazy way to make the book more legible.

I don't think that's what she actually did but it's disingenuous to try and pretend such a thing couldn't have happened.

 

[LionoRaptor]

She's wrong about the New Zealand film industry. It went into the Toilet because it was as cheap to shoot films within 30 miles of Holywood as it was there.

People tried to explain to New Zealand trade unions that the inherent costs of shooting in New Zealand which is extremely gegraphically remote, meant that say a boom operator in Auckland was never going to be paid the same as one in Hollywood (where the cost of living is far higher).

If New Zealand had played their cards right they could have rivalled Canada, instead the industry has collapsed to the point, where even indigenous productions are struggling.

Incidentally a lot of Lindsay Ellis's talking points in her Hobbit documentary are directly from US trade unions press releases. A group that would prefer if nothing was produced in NZ, and US companies were forced to use US Union labor for all productions.

Also Taika Waititi shot Thor Ragnarok in Australia and is still loved in New Zealand, Peter Jackson insisted on shooting the Mortal Engines in New Zealand and is stil hated by people that think he somehow screwed NZ over.

All I know is that NZ was producing good homegrown shows like Outrageous Fortunes and The Almighty Johnsons (Great show btw).

Then suddenly no new Kiwi shows altogether. Now its all going to the 20 Avatar sequels by James Cameron. Big budget gets prioritised over smaller shows that could win big praise/business overseas.