Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

A woman is an individual who identifies as a woman
Oh look, it's the usual retarded recursive definition.
What it means to feel like a woman varies from person to person, and I can't say what feeling like a woman is like anymore than I could say what feeling like a man is like, since I'm just one person. I'd expect that there are just as many answers to that question as there are women on the planet, and my answer is that I don't know. I never knew that I felt like a woman; I just identify as one.
:story::story::story:
What is a basketball fan? someone who likes basketball. What is a stoner? someone who identifies with the stoner subculture.
Oh yes, I personally know tens of basketball fans who don't even know what a basketball is, and their main argument is that a basketball match can't be defined so anyone can be a basketball fan the moment they feel it might make them look "cool", same with stoners.

A couple of points worth mentioning:

- Identities don't work like that, at the very least you have to have a definition for the said identity and a claim to it, a woman has to be a female (and no, intersex and other 0.05% aren't women) , a basketball fan has to be someone watch and likes basketball, and a stoner has to be someone who uses a decent amount of cannabis.

- Your definition of identities is actually fits LARPs better where you wake up and decide you'll be a cute anime gurl today uwu.
 
Not shocked that a pseud like Olly couldn't get through Evola. Even a lot of actual intellectuals struggle to grasp his books. Partly because you need to know a lot about Orientalism and early 20th century Eastern mysticism and its history in the West to understand why he says what he does, and partly because he's Italian and the most popular translation is a bit boring and long-winded in its verbiage.
I think people overstate how difficult Evola is to read, I bet most people here could jump into Revolt Against the Modern World and adjust pretty well to it. He gets into a lot of Orientalism and Indo-Aryanism, but he explains it all so you don't need any previous insight and he just uses them as references to build upon. It's dry in the sense all philosophy is dry, but I'd say it's way easier than Kant or Hobbes or a lot of the big-name guys.

For people paying attention, it's right around here where the thread is going to devolve into very chaotic discussions of philosophy.
 
A woman is an individual who identifies as a woman
A woman is a human being with two X chromosomes, is born with a uterus, Fallopian tubes and ovaries and menstruates. She becomes naturally pregnant with another human when sperm fertilizes an egg inside the uterus and she gives birth after approximately a nine months gestation. That is what a woman is.

What a woman is not is a dress, high heels, tight clothes or makeup slathered on a face. A woman is not a collection of fashion accouterments or a set pattern of defined behaviors. Various cultures, present and in the past, have defined the behavior of women but they have never defined a woman as a simple affirmation or declaration.

You are not a woman because you state yourself to be one. Despite rantings and demands to the contrary, to this date a human female is still acknowledged to be as I describe in my first paragraph.

Transwoman is a made up word, with no basis in reality.

A woman is not you.
 
A woman is a human being with two X chromosomes, is born with a uterus, Fallopian tubes and ovaries and menstruates. She becomes naturally pregnant with another human when sperm fertilizes an egg inside the uterus and she gives birth after approximately a nine months gestation. That is what a woman is.

What a woman is not is a dress, high heels, tight clothes or makeup slathered on a face. A woman is not a collection of fashion accouterments or a set pattern of defined behaviors. Various cultures, present and in the past, have defined the behavior of women but they have never defined a woman as a simple affirmation or declaration.

You are not a woman because you state yourself to be one. Despite rantings and demands to the contrary, to this date a human female is still acknowledged to be as I describe in my first paragraph.

Transwoman is a made up word, with no basis in reality.

A woman is not you.
Name one word that isn't made up. Words are invented by people for social utility. Your invocation of reality is interesting. Do you also think that notions of money, property, and the state are also "made up, with no basis in reality? They, like gender, are social constructs.

Your definition of womanhood, like all definitions, is subjective, and weirdly enough pretty much every accredited medical institution recognizes the validity of transgender identities, no longer understanding it as a mental illness. Given their nigh-unanimous acceptance among medical institutions, and the consensus of psychologists, anthropologists, and sociologists, it's more likely than not that. You and other laypeople screaming "REEEEEE TROONS AREN'T REAL" just probably aren't in the right here.

Oh look, it's the usual retarded recursive definition.

:story::story::story:

Oh yes, I personally know tens of basketball fans who don't even know what a basketball is, and their main argument is that a basketball match can't be defined so anyone can be a basketball fan the moment they feel it might make them look "cool", same with stoners.

A couple of points worth mentioning:

- Identities don't work like that, at the very least you have to have a definition for the said identity and a claim to it, a woman has to be a female (and no, intersex and other 0.05% aren't women) , a basketball fan has to be someone watch and likes basketball, and a stoner has to be someone who uses a decent amount of cannabis.

- Your definition of identities is actually fits LARPs better where you wake up and decide you'll be a cute anime gurl today uwu.
Gender identities do work like that, though. Consult any medical or psychological organization's website. I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying shit like this, but when the medical and psychological consensus reaffirms the validity of transgender identities, plus organizations like the WHO and American Psychological Association, is your assertion based only on common sense and... feelings?
 
Gender identities do work like that, though. Consult any medical or psychological organization's website. I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying shit like this, but when the medical and psychological consensus reaffirms the validity of transgender identities, plus organizations like the WHO and American Psychological Association, is your assertion based only on common sense and... feelings?
And as usual the troon appeals to authorities as soon as he is faced with a semi coherent argument, Keep LARPing bro,
 
Gender identities do work like that, though. Consult any medical or psychological organization's website. I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying shit like this, but when the medical and psychological consensus reaffirms the validity of transgender identities, plus organizations like the WHO and American Psychological Association, is your assertion based only on common sense and... feelings?
GeNdEr IdEnTiTiEs Do WoRk LiKe ThAt, ThOuGh

Why even bother staying here if you have had multiple replies strongly disagreeing with you in the best case scenario?

Also, doubleposting just shits up the thread, so strike two there.

no1curr what you identify as, but if you can't even give a clear cut reason to defend yourself just lurk and seethe like the rest of us.
 
And as usual the troon appeals to authorities as soon as he is faced with a semi coherent argument, Keep LARPing bro,
Well, there's only so little I can say on mine and other troons' behalf. Also, appeals to authority aren't always fallacious. I'm not only citing the experts, I'm not saying that them saying it makes it true, since it wasn't long before they too denied the legitimacy of transgender identities. I'm citing the overwhelming medical and psychological consensus to demonstrate that it's not just crazy troons thinking that they're correct; the experts agree. It's more than you all are citing.
GeNdEr IdEnTiTiEs Do WoRk LiKe ThAt, ThOuGh

Why even bother staying here if you have had multiple replies strongly disagreeing with you in the best case scenario?
Abigail Thorn is still a lolcow to me, even though I'm trans.
 
Name one word that isn't made up. Words are invented by people for social utility. Your invocation of reality is interesting. Do you also think that notions of money, property, and the state are also "made up, with no basis in reality? They, like gender, are social constructs.

Your definition of womanhood, like all definitions, is subjective, and weirdly enough pretty much every accredited medical institution recognizes the validity of transgender identities, no longer understanding it as a mental illness. Given their nigh-unanimous acceptance among medical institutions, and the consensus of psychologists, anthropologists, and sociologists, it's more likely than not that. You and other laypeople screaming "REEEEEE TROONS AREN'T REAL" just probably aren't in the right here.
Words, or to be precise, proper nouns, describe a person, place or thing. Nouns are not social constructs or any other convoluted gobbledygook a mentally ill and defective person invents during their delirium. They are language, a skill Homo Sapiens developed. As a result of the biological capability of our species.

There is no unanimous acceptance that men, with XY chromosomes, can become women, much less that they can by simply claiming they are.

There is biological reality and there is your mental illness. There may be mass hysteria and delusions amongst academics (and this has happened so many times in the past examples would take pages to list) but every sane, logical and rational person knows a human being born as a man cannot become the opposite sex simply by willing it, much less by becoming a eunuch.
 
Name one word that isn't made up. Words are invented by people for social utility. Your invocation of reality is interesting. Do you also think that notions of money, property, and the state are also "made up, with no basis in reality? They, like gender, are social constructs.

Your definition of womanhood, like all definitions, is subjective, and weirdly enough pretty much every accredited medical institution recognizes the validity of transgender identities, no longer understanding it as a mental illness. Given their nigh-unanimous acceptance among medical institutions, and the consensus of psychologists, anthropologists, and sociologists, it's more likely than not that. You and other laypeople screaming "REEEEEE TROONS AREN'T REAL" just probably aren't in the right here.
Every word is made up and has a particular social utility. No shit.

What you have to do is explain why your certain definition of woman (which from my understanding is basically: anyone who identifies as a woman & usually likes to adhere to feminine stereotypes) is the one we should all be using. Why is this definition of 'woman' more useful than the physical, biology-based definition?

What's even the goal? Is it to prevent transwomen from being excluded from anything? You know, even if everything works out in your favor and the generally-accepted definition of woman changes from "xx-chromosomes" to "anyone who conforms to stereotypes and claims to be a woman", it technically wouldn't prevent exclusion from taking place. I genuinely believe that many women's spaces would just become AFAB-only spaces. Biological women (or AFAB, as you'd call them) and transwomen just have totally different experiences and struggles; exclusion is always bound to occur.
 
Well, there's only so little I can say on mine and other troons' behalf. Also, appeals to authority aren't always fallacious. I'm not only citing the experts, I'm not saying that them saying it makes it true, since it wasn't long before they too denied the legitimacy of transgender identities. I'm citing the overwhelming medical and psychological consensus to demonstrate that it's not just crazy troons thinking that they're correct; the experts agree. It's more than you all are citing.

Abigail Thorn is still a lolcow to me, even though I'm trans.
You will never be a woman.
 
Words, or to be precise, proper nouns, describe a person, place or thing. Nouns are not social constructs or any other convoluted gobbledygook a mentally ill and defective person invents during their delirium. They are language, a skill Homo Sapiens developed. As a result of the biological capability of our species.
Yes. The mere existence of noun isn't a social construct, but individual nouns certainly are. They're invented by people and have no objective existence. They weren't dug out of the ground, or found like, in a tree. People invented them!
There is no unanimous acceptance that men, with XY chromosomes can become women, much less that they can by simply claiming they are.
there's no unanimous acceptance of anything.
There is biological reality and there is your mental illness. There may be mass hysteria and delusions amongst academics (and this has happened so many times in the past examples would take pages to list) but every sane, logical and rational person knows a human being born as a man cannot become the opposite sex simply by willing it, much less by becoming a eunuch.
Interesting that you invoke mental illness, considering that both the scholarly and medical consensus maintains that being trans is not a mental illness. Why even bother citing mental illness? Appeal to sanity and logic? Nice. Also, nobody is saying that anyone can change their sex; only their gender.

What you have to do is explain why your certain definition of woman (which from my understanding is basically: anyone who identifies as a woman & usually likes to adhere to feminine stereotypes) is the one we should all be using. Why is this definition of 'woman' more useful than the physical, biology-based definition?
Well, because nobody in everyday life looks at someone and thinks "hmm, their molecular biology suggests that they are a woman!" No, you look at what they look like, how they act etc. Also, the "physical, biology-based definition" still exists; it's called sex.
What's even the goal? Is it to prevent transwomen from being excluded from anything? You know, even if everything works out in your favor and the generally-accepted definition of woman changes from "xx-chromosomes" to "anyone who conforms to stereotypes and claims to be a woman", it technically wouldn't prevent exclusion from taking place.
well, there are already trans women in women's spaces. I should know, because I've been using them for years. Nobody has ever excluded me, or even acted surprised or disturbed. Like, when I go to the bathroom, the other women there don't fucking scan my cells and say "Troon alert!" I'm just another women.
I genuinely believe that many women's spaces would just become AFAB-only spaces. Biological women (or AFAB, as you'd call them) and transwomen just have totally different experiences and struggles; exclusion is always bound to occur.
How would that occur? there'd be like a scanner on the door of women's restrooms? I mean, there is some truth to what you say, I think. Trans women and cis women DO have different sexes, so there would always be differences. Trans women can't get pregnant (at least for now!) etc, but none of that stuff comes up in everyday life. Do you actually personally know any trans women, any of you? In normal life, we're just regular women.

"The experts agree" is the very definition of a fallacy, the appeal to authority.

No, appealing to authority is not the very definition of a fallacy. An appeal to authority can be fallacious, though.


from rationalwiki "Notably, insofar as the authorities in question are, indeed, experts on the issue in question, their opinion provides strong inductive support for the conclusion: It makes the conclusion likely to be true, not necessarily true. As such, an argument from authority can only strongly suggest what is true — not prove it."

^ but I'm sure they're all just spergs anyway. I'm not saying that the experts agreeing makes my argument true or proves it, I'm just pointing out that it does suggest that my argument is correct.
 

No, appealing to authority is not the very definition of a fallacy. An appeal to authority can be fallacious, though.


from rationalwiki "Notably, insofar as the authorities in question are, indeed, experts on the issue in question, their opinion provides strong inductive support for the conclusion: It makes the conclusion likely to be true, not necessarily true. As such, an argument from authority can only strongly suggest what is true — not prove it."

^ but I'm sure they're all just spergs anyway. I'm not saying that the experts agreeing makes my argument true or proves it, I'm just pointing out that it does suggest that my argument is correct.
Oh shit guys, there's a link to a wiki! We are for sure owned now!

Forreal dude, either lurk more and do one reply to a googleplex of people (because you thought that sticking your dick in the hornet's nest and getting stung repeatedly are juuuuust two random events unrelated to each other) or just shut up. You can shit up whatever thread exists on here where you can totally own the ciscum by convincing them of your opinions.

We just here to laugh at narcissists on the internet, and it just comes across like you wanna join them by replying to each person that doesn't agree with you.
 
Please shut the fuck up. If people keep off-topic sperging report it. I don't want to just delete a huge chunk of the thread when people are having a conversation, but at the same time, this is a thread about a person. Keep it about the person.

P.S. nobody gives a shit about your logical fallacy wikipedia pages.
 
Well, there's only so little I can say on mine and other troons' behalf. Also, appeals to authority aren't always fallacious. I'm not only citing the experts, I'm not saying that them saying it makes it true, since it wasn't long before they too denied the legitimacy of transgender identities. I'm citing the overwhelming medical and psychological consensus to demonstrate that it's not just crazy troons thinking that they're correct; the experts agree. It's more than you all are citing.
You are citing people who are basically saying "Yeah some people are so sick in the head that they think they aren't the sex they were born in", How does that say you are a woman, again? IDK why are you guys so fond of this old tired Motte and bailey argument.

Believe it or not I agree with muh expertrinos here, gender dysphoria exists and some people are unfortunate enough to have it just like schizophrenia and depression, but calling yourself a woman/man doesn't make you one
 
They're invented by people and have no objective existence. They weren't dug out of the ground, or found like, in a tree. People invented them!
Not surprising to see another attack on objectivity from a post modernist. When an ideology allows for a man to "become" a woman, nothing is stable.
Interesting that you invoke mental illness, considering that both the scholarly and medical consensus maintains that being trans is not a mental illness
The "experts" only say that it's not an illness because they're afraid of your psycho suicide threats. Do you think its advantageous from an evolutionary perspective to be biologically male, but deluded into believing you're a member of the opposite sex? Homosexuality can at least be observed in animals. "Gender identiy," if it even exists for some, is a purely human phenomenon. Stallions can't "identify" as mares.

Sure, most of the push for institutional acceptance probably comes from a place of compassion, but the way the troons weild suicide rates as a cudgel must be alarming to many within academia, and im sure more will come out.
Also, the "physical, biology-based definition" still exists; it's called sex.
Then why don't troons accept and respect the "physical, biologically based definition" and respect female only spaces and opportunities (sports, prisons, shelters, changing rooms).

Your side is trying to erase sex. If you embraced it, you would recognize yourself as a male who likes to impersonate feminine stereotypes through affect and numerous medical interventions.
Trans women and cis women DO have different sexes, so there would always be differences. Trans women can't get pregnant (at least for now!) etc, but none of that stuff comes up in everyday life.
Yeah i can tell you really know what its like to be a woman. Reproductive health doesn't affect women at all, and has no bearing on how women have been treated by society throughout time and cultures.

Nothing at all about the stigma of monthly cycles, ostracization, the belief that a woman is unclean during mensies. Not to mention the phsyical discomfort that accompanies this wholly BIOLOGICAL function, which natal women don't need to seek HRT to induce...

And LOL at your little joke about a troon uterus. Anatomy aside, even if something like that was ever possible, most troons are far too narcissistic to allow their bodies to become literal vessels for another's life (the altruism of motherhood), and the ones who say they are willing to undergo a pregnancy would probably be the Jonny Yaniv types who would find a fetishistic angle in it all.

No, appealing to authority is not the very definition of a fallacy. An appeal to authority can be fallacious, though.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
from rationalwiki

Wow. You got us there. No one on this site would ever dare to question the brilliance of rational wiki...
 
pt.png


Does he really think anyone believes that he really just wants to act after he had the biggest coming out event that he could manage?

Interview video:
pt 2.png


He slips up here and then catches himself:

pt 3.png

pt 4.png

pt 5.png


He also tells a melodramatic story that he couldn't go pick up his niece because someone might say something bad about him for being trans:

pt 6.png


More made up health care stuff:

pt 7.png


The whole video is only 3 minutes long but it's a roller coaster of bad acting.
 
Name one word that isn't made up. Words are invented by people for social utility. Your invocation of reality is interesting. Do you also think that notions of money, property, and the state are also "made up, with no basis in reality? They, like gender, are social constructs.

Your definition of womanhood, like all definitions, is subjective, and weirdly enough pretty much every accredited medical institution recognizes the validity of transgender identities, no longer understanding it as a mental illness. Given their nigh-unanimous acceptance among medical institutions, and the consensus of psychologists, anthropologists, and sociologists, it's more likely than not that. You and other laypeople screaming "REEEEEE TROONS AREN'T REAL" just probably aren't in the right here.
Words are not strictly utilitarian, they serve a transactional purpose between people and reality, and the concept of truth. On one hand it deals in accuracy, but it also deals in intricate concepts that create superstructures and play into our understanding of truth. This is why certain languages have entire linguistic concepts that other languages do not have, and this is reflective of their different histories and value-sets.

What I am trying, and what I believe others are trying, to tell you is this: language is not your playground. It is not yours to deconstruct and make everyone play along with.
We set the rules, the rules exist for a reason, rules exist due to their relationship to reality and truth.
We will not permit you to be a mentally ill anarchist and try to redefine our reality. You do not have that power. In fact, the only reason you believe you have power is a kindness on our part. And as you will increasingly see in your life, our tolerance and kindness is just about exhausted.

And for the record, this is gonna be most of the thread I am sure. Every time I have witnessed trannies speak on the issue like Ollie is, it touches on these specific points, so I think it needs to be pointed out that all of these people collectively are waging an attack on reality and using philosophy as a very clumsy and very ugly cudgel to do it.
 
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