The Trial of Derek Chauvin - Judgement(?) Day(?) has arrived!

[Thomas Highway]

And you base this assertion on...?

Subjective ethics.

The same thing you base shit on.

 

[cheeking0]

Suppose that better minds can help me answer this, but as I have touched upon earlier, a judge, in rare moments of wisdom, can set aside a jury verdict and rule on the case on his own. Wouldn't a Brady violation be grounds for a judge to do just exactly that, and there's no appellate issue to discuss because the State made such a retarded move to cause it?

Honestly, I think its a power judges are very reluctant to use. Considering the enormous public interest in the outcome of this case, there is tremendous pressure on him to do things by the book as much as possible.

I would sooner believe he'd declare a mistrial before the jury can deliver a verdict, rather than allow them to deliver a verdict and then supersede them.

Now that you mention it I suppose it is possible that the jury is hung and specifically cites that the fact that there is new evidence they were not told of, as they were present to hear it even if it was stricken from the record and told to disregard it, and at that point Cahill steps in to render a verdict. But again, I really don't think he'd want to do that.

 

[Special Agent Punchy]

Just to set the record straight on what potentially caused the mistrial today: Supposedly, the HC Medical Examiner, Thomas Baker, who previously testified for the prosecution, apparently heard the testimony by David Fowler yesterday, specifically in regards to Carbon Monoxide levels, and decided to investigate whether arterial blood gas data was actually taken for George Floyd at the hospital.

Prior to that, I believe the only data taken on gases in the blood was from the paramedics pulse oximeter, which read 98% oxygen saturation. The ME apparently discovered, very shortly after Fowler's testimony, that they did indeed take blood gas measurements at the hospital, and I guess the prosecution never thought to ask if this data existed, and thus they did not have it to enter as evidence before this point, even though Fowler's medical report, which was available to the prosecution before the trial, mentioned CO levels as potentially negatively contributing to GF's death.

The prosecution wanted to bring in Dr. Martin Tobin, the Irish doc for the prosecution from earlier, to counter the narrative that Fowler had set up, that CO was a contributing factor, and have Tobin be able to supplement his claim with the medical evidence, by entering said arterial blood gas data. However, the nature of how this evidence would be introduced to court would make it highly prejudicial, (there are several reasons why: timing of introduction, not giving the defense time to prepare, etc.). Thus, the judge allowed Tobin to speak on potential issues of CO poisoning, but only in so far as giving a speculative opinion as a medical expert, no references to the new data. Which is fair, as the defense's medical expert never got to give a testimony based on actual data, specifically this data, and was gone, on a plane back to wherever. Judge Cahill warned, "if he even hints there are test results the jury has not heard about, there's gonna be a mistrial."

However, based potato doctor, who I am not actually aware was informed of this arrangement, (I don't think he would willingly push this line if he knew it could throw the trial) did just that about 4 minutes into being put back on the stand. Nelson immediately objected and they had an off mic sidebar.

Ultimately, it would seem Cahill decided against following through with his warning about a mistrial. Your guess is as good as mine as to why.

God, this is entertaining.

Good summary. @Banditotron got us some relevant info earlier about blood oxygen and asphyxia earlier.

Alright, I've given the thing a read-through. It doesn't go in depth on the topic, but here is some relevant information to how one can die of asphyxia while having healthy amount of oxygen in their blood.
Here, I've isolated some relevant info. Bold text is my doing.
"TISSUE HYPOXIA
...
Second, blood flow and oxygen content are normal; however, the blood does not release oxygen appropriately, or the cells do not utilize it. Chemical asphyxiants such as carbon monoxide (CO) and cyanide (CN) operate in this fashion. Third, the amount of oxygen is normal, but there is restriction of the blood flow to the tissue, hence, lack of oxygen delivery and carbon dioxide pickup for elimination.
...
Restriction of blood flow from and to the brain is typically the major feature in ... strangulation. ... Compression of the neck blood vessels is sufficient to cause unconsciousness and death. Thus, unconsciousness and death may occur without significant compromise of the airway."
On a funny note, this was in the article:

Spoiler: lol trans

lol trans
View attachment 2090337

If I'm comprehending, this means that one reason Floyd's blood work would have come out this way is if the blood supply in his neck was cut off after he passed out.

Ironically, with all their many conflicting witnesses, the prosecution has not argued that Chauvin killed Floyd with a blood choke.

What's weird is that during the morning chat, the judge was very specific about not wanting Potatobin to testify about the carboxyhemoglobin test. Then later, even after the objection, Tobin insists that the test he's talking about indicates the saturation of carboxyhemoglobin, not O2.

Spoiler: Which means he can't be referring to the oximeter reading?

It also sounds like Dr 41% had access to the new data from the hospital before it was submitted to the court and way before the defense ever saw it.

EDIT: Just trying to come up with a reason why what Tobin did isn't a violation, but I got nothing. People on Twitter were pretty certain that there was a different carboxyhemoglobin test that destroys Fowler, but I'm not rewatching just to find out if they're assfishing. And if they're right, what the fuck is the point of the new data?

EDIT 2: After rewatching the morning powwow, Nelson is the one who threatens to file for mistrial if the carboxyhemoglobin testimony is brought forward. Cahill just acknowledges that it would be legitimate. So it's on Nelson?

 

[Gehenna]

I think the specific circumstances aren't that the report was in their possession, but that they had only just received it at this far into the trial. There might be some wiggle room with who's negligence is truly responsible that prevents it from being "clear cut" as you put it.

In any case, Cahill assumed it wasn't done in bad faith but denied to accept it as evidence.

Nope! Since it was their witness, it was in their possession.

 

[russian roulade]

Just trying to come up with a reason why what Tobin did isn't a violation, but I got nothing. People on Twitter were pretty certain that there was a different carboxyhemoglobin test that destroys Fowler, but I'm not rewatching just to find out they're assfishing. And if there was, what the fuck is the point of the new data?

The judge and Nelson clearly both thought the pulse oximeter was what he was going to talk about because of the things they discussed as being suitable for cross examination. Tobin was definitely talking about blood gas work though and had a sidebar immediately after he first mentioned that. Either the judge was bluffing about calling a mistrial right away or there was a third blood test behind the grassy knoll that had slipped defense/judge's memory

 

[Dona Morte]

Well flip me sideways.
I knew there was a reason the stream was only 2 hours today.

Chauvin Trial: Prosecution Withholds Evidence From Defense - Redoubt News

Chauvin Trial: Prosecution Withholds Evidence From Defense, Brady violations, If judge does not declare a mistrial, miscarriage of justice.

redoubtnews.com

Poor Minn.

 

[AnOminous]

Maybe he figures that the trial is practically over, so might as well just finish the process, get a verdict, and then let the appeals court sort it out?

He probably likes his house in its current state and not burned down.

 

[102]

Isn't the jury like 90% women, 70% black? and one of the few whites is that golden doodle-owning social worker?

Unless the judge declares a mistrial, Chauvin's gonna get buried UNDER the fuckin' jail by Tyqueesha and Shaniqua. The judge aint gonna do shit as judges are pussies in the woke era; judges like the Brock Turner judge have all gotten recalled in recent years. The judge is not gonna end his career over this.

retard fucks here think they're watching My Cousin Vinny (which Marissa Tomei has a SPECTACULAR ass in btw, look up the trailer)

 

[Prince Vegeta]

What annoys me is that the amount of cope on all sides is akin to that of flat earthers. I'm not talking about Nelson being fanfictioned either into a 4D chess player or a racist helping a cop get away with murder, but about the the lack of interest in finding out what actually happened in favour of a fanatical focus on satisfying some emotional stimulus or whatever it is that people get out of it by believing in some grand conspiracy.

 

[cheeking0]

EDIT: Just trying to come up with a reason why what Tobin did isn't a violation, but I got nothing. People on Twitter were pretty certain that there was a different carboxyhemoglobin test that destroys Fowler, but I'm not rewatching just to find out if they're assfishing. And if they're right, what the fuck is the point of the new data?

Tobin technically did nothing wrong, He was asked why he though CO poisoning was unlikely and he gave his answer as he saw fit. What is a violation is what information he was allowed to reference, for instance: medical data from this recently obtained report.

Like I said in my big post, the fact that he said something that the judge said was a strictly forbidden topic makes me think he didn't know there was this restriction.

As far as I am aware: The associated report that contains the hospital's analytical readings on the arterial blood gases of George Floyd, that the prosecution nearly caused mistrial to enter in as evidence and was denied doing so, has not been released to public. Nobody online knows what it's contents are. The only people who know its contents for sure are the ME, Potatodoc, the prosecution, and the defense. I doubt Cahill saw it apart from the physical papers, and we know for sure the jury has not and will not be seeing it.

We can assume whatever the findings are, at least the on the surface, they are favorable to the prosecution. I know people have questioned the competence of the prosecution at many points throughout this trial, but I doubt they would want this put forward if it didn't help them. It is probably hard evidence to contradict Fowler's opinion that GF's CO level could have been 18%. But that's entirely the issue at present, Nelson's defense is reasonable doubt due to contributing factors. If he was aware of this report from the outset of the trial, he would have crafted a different defense, which undermines the idea that Derek Chauvin is supposed to get a fair trial, which includes the best legal defense reasonably possible.

 

[inception_state]

What annoys me is that the amount of cope on all sides is akin to that of flat earthers. I'm not talking about Nelson being fanfictioned either into a 4D chess player or a racist helping a cop get away with murder, but about the the lack of interest in finding out what actually happened in favour of a fanatical focus on satisfying some emotional stimulus or whatever it is that people get out of it by believing in some grand conspiracy.

The problem is that Floyd had so much shit wrong with him (fentanyl, meth, heart problems, panic/exertion, a tumor, head next to a car exhaust, police restraint) that I honestly don't think it's possible to attribute his death to a single cause with a reasonable degree of certainty. And at the end of the day, that's all the defense has to show.

 

[Berrakh]

This ordeal alone has made cell phones not worth it for society.

 

[gaystoner]

Yeah, I meant that the flowchart here is:

Not guilty -> It's done, barring some hail mary appeal by the prosecution.
Guilty -> Chauvin appeals due to the Brady violation, potentially gets the case dismissed or a new trial.

From Cahill's perspective, calling a mistrial just means that he gets to deal with this whole shitshow all over again. Might as well let the verdict happen and maybe preempt that, so long as Chauvin can bring it up on appeal.

Cahill wants *shocker* a Break.

 

[cheeking0]

After rewatching the morning powwow, Nelson is the one who threatens to file for mistrial if the carboxyhemoglobin testimony is brought forward. Cahill just acknowledges that it would be legitimate. So it's on Nelson?

You can bet money that in that sidebar right after it gets brought up, Nelson is requesting a mistrial. They just must have come to an understanding we'll never know.

Also, the judge definitely said it too.

 

[Prince Vegeta]

The problem is that Floyd had so much shit wrong with him (fentanyl, meth, heart problems, panic/exertion, a tumor, head next to a car exhaust, police restraint) that I honestly don't think it's possible to attribute his death to a single cause with a reasonable degree of certainty. And at the end of the day, that's all the defense has to show.

I agree. But you are using the type of reasoning that I'm missing here: you are looking at the facts, thinking about what the system is meant to do and likely ignoring emotional investment in an outcome (if any exists). I admit I just have very little faith left in that approach being used successfully by professionals in the field or a position of decision making authority.

 

[FEETLOAF]

The problem is that Floyd had so much shit wrong with him (fentanyl, meth, heart problems, panic/exertion, a tumor, head next to a car exhaust, police restraint) that I honestly don't think it's possible to attribute his death to a single cause with a reasonable degree of certainty. And at the end of the day, that's all the defense has to show.

Their charges don't require him to have been the sole cause of death. If 99.99% of the cause of death was other than Chauvin, he's still guilty for contributing that 00.01%.

 

[SITHRAK!]

Subjective ethics.

The same thing you base shit on.

That's a pretty fancy way of saying "I think my opinion is fact", you fucking faggot.
You're welcome to opinions, but if you pretend they're facts you'll need more than a NO U when someone calls you out.

 

[Alkaline Cab]

What annoys me is that the amount of cope on all sides is akin to that of flat earthers. I'm not talking about Nelson being fanfictioned either into a 4D chess player or a racist helping a cop get away with murder, but about the the lack of interest in finding out what actually happened in favour of a fanatical focus on satisfying some emotional stimulus or whatever it is that people get out of it by believing in some grand conspiracy.

But we've already done analysis of what "really happened".
My opinion (and thread consensus?) was that even if the knee did it, only because of drugs/hypertension/covid was it a fatal restraint - therefore a reasonable risk. And a hostile crowd that even EMTs had to skirt around meant police doing any action was difficult. Similarly, there isn't much room for debate on the other side: a knee to the neck is clearly dangerous, not helping afterwards is still wrong, and Floyd didn't die from a pure OD. Anyone who says another stance will get mocked and/or censored, depending on where you are.
The only thing left, is well, to cope. Because BLM and racism* are both incredibly prominent, it makes sense that one would effect a jury decision. If I'm right about jury manipulation, then I was right (wow); and if I'm wrong, then I'm still right (of what "actually happened"). We can "cope and seethe white niggers" after a verdict is actually reached!
There's also a fairly large area of "we don't know"; which falls under innocent until proven guilty or mob rule's guilty until proven innocent. A potential knee on neck (bodycam footage only shows that he put the knee on back after paramedics arrived iirc), or the oxygen/CO levels of Floyd just as he died. In this case, it'll be decided on what the jury feels.

tldr: yeah it's a cope, give me autistic ratings

Also @MoeChetto because you've been saying the same thing earlier

*to anyone who believes in CRT of course

 

[SITHRAK!]

But we've already done analysis of what "really happened".
My opinion (and thread consensus?) was that even if the knee did it, only because of drugs/hypertension/covid was it a fatal restraint - therefore a reasonable risk. And a hostile crowd that even EMTs had to skirt around meant police doing any action was difficult. Similarly, there isn't much room for debate on the other side: a knee to the neck is clearly dangerous, not helping afterwards is still wrong, and Floyd didn't die from a pure OD. Anyone who says another stance will get mocked and/or censored, depending on where you are.
The only thing left, is well, to cope. Because BLM and racism* are both incredibly prominent, it makes sense that one would effect a jury decision. If I'm right about jury manipulation, then I was right (wow); and if I'm wrong, then I'm still right (of what "actually happened"). You can say "cope and seethe white niggers" after a verdict is actually reached!
There's also a fairly large area of "we don't know"; which falls under innocent until proven guilty or mob rule's guilty until proven innocent. A potential knee on neck (bodycam footage only shows that he put the knee on back after paramedics arrived iirc), or the oxygen/CO levels of Floyd just as he died. In this case, it'll be decided on what the jury feels.

tldr: yeah it's a cope, give me autistic ratings

Also @MoeChetto because you've been saying the same thing earlier

*to anyone who believes in CRT of course

I think you’ll find general thread consensus is that Chauvin’s knee was likely the least important factor in Floyd’s death. Considering chronic polypharmic abuse, die-any-second heart disease, acute intoxication, sufficient opioids to kill three men and sickle-cell, Floyd was clearly a man for whom ‘good life choices’ was something of an abstract concern.

 

[Banditotron]

What annoys me is that the amount of cope on all sides is akin to that of flat earthers. I'm not talking about Nelson being fanfictioned either into a 4D chess player or a racist helping a cop get away with murder, but about the the lack of interest in finding out what actually happened in favour of a fanatical focus on satisfying some emotional stimulus or whatever it is that people get out of it by believing in some grand conspiracy.

I'm with you. I care only about truth and justice. I'm not sure what the truth is of what happened that day, and I don't know if that there will be justice. I can only try my best to come to my own conclusions based of the evidence provided to us in this strange televised trial, and hope that the judge and jury can see come to a verdict based on what they've learned, even if I end up disagreeing. The world is a bullshit stupid chaotic place but at the end of the day there is only one truth.