Serious LGBT Discussion

[Mesh Gear Fox]

Apparently we're supposed to believe a baby boy pops out of the womb genetically-programed to start craving cock.

Then what causes it? Like I said I had a normal middle class childhood with two loving parents. I was never sexually, physically or verbally abused. Even when I was a little boy I knew I liked other boys more than girls. Nothing traumatic happened to me that caused me to be gay, it's just the way I was made.

 

[Real Gay Autist]

Then what causes it? Like I said I had a normal middle class childhood with two loving parents. I was never sexually, physically or verbally abused. Even when I was a little boy I knew I liked other boys more than girls. Nothing traumatic happened to me that caused me to be gay, it's just the way I was made.

Yes, I see what you're saying. As you say, people with good (or 'good enough', in the Winnicottian sense) childhoods still end up gay. I haven't stated that childhood trauma or abuse causes homosexuality. I don't believe that. What I'm saying is that 'the way you are made' cannot be said to be (primarily) genetic. There are few conclusive findings on genetics and homosexuality. Instead, 'the way you are made' is primarily about attachment patterns, especially in early infancy (of which we have no conscious memory), and subtle familial and social dynamics in early childhood and adolescence. Nothing to do with abuse at all. This is in the same space as how personality is formed, and the same way we usually discuss the development of heterosexual desire. This is also why sexuality ends up being something pretty fuzzy it's not an on-off switch like eye color. Don't see why homosexuality has to be somehow set aside a biological or genetic abnormality, when perfectly good psychological frameworks exist for explaining it.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Then what causes it?

We don't know. Nobody does. As far as we can tell, there is no specific biological or genetic cause. That's about as far as anyone can say conclusively. Barring religious explanations, no one has any real concrete answers. Some of it may be behavioral. Some of it may be due to nurture. Situational Sexuality shows that homosexuality can manifest in animals in captivity, even among animals that never commit homosexual acts in the wild. We still don't know enough to conclude one way or another scientifically.

Nothing to do with abuse at all.

I won't say that much. While childhood abuse may not be a factor in all cases, we can't dismiss it in others.

 

[Noir drag freak]

We don't know. Nobody does. As far as we can tell, there is no specific biological or genetic cause. That's about as far as anyone can say conclusively. Barring religious explanations, no one has any real concrete answers. Some of it may be behavioral. Some of it may be due to nurture. Situational Sexuality shows that homosexuality can manifest in animals in captivity, even among animals that never commit homosexual acts in the wild. We still don't know enough to conclude one way or another scientifically.

I think that sex has multiple uses. People don't just have sex because of pleasure or procreation. Sex can be seen as an transactional activity. It could be used as a form of degradation or a friendly greeting. A form of emotional connection or manipluation. Sometimes, sex could be a combination of all the above. Since the meaning of sex can be so fluid, I think it would be impossible to sort it into discrete boxes.


ETA:
I'm leaning towards homosexuality being a cultural construct. I would make a post about it,. But it's too much effort.

 

[Noir drag freak]

The more I observed the LGBT community and LGBT individuals, the more I think that it's more than just sex. The thing that bonds the LGBT community is social alienation,resentment, attention seeking, and dramatics. Hence the term queer and why it seems like the community has ever expanding list of groups joining the community. Basically, the gay community is community of misfits and outcasts.

 

[Wallace]

The more I observed the LGBT community and LGBT individuals, the more I think that it's more than just sex. The thing that bonds the LGBT community is social alienation,resentment, attention seeking, and dramatics. Hence the term queer and why it seems like the community has ever expanding list of groups joining the community. Basically, the gay community is community of misfits and outcasts.

It's only gotten really bad in the last decade when "queer" became cool and trendy, and they gay community became inundated with genderhipsters. Back in my day the socially alienated, resentful, attention seeking and drama loving teenagers wore black trenchcoats and listened to shitty music instead. The difference now is that gay rights is an unassailable liberal bastion that these faggots get to hide behind whenever they're at risk of their foolish actions having consequences. They get to enjoy the moral high of feeling edgy and oppressed without actually suffering any consequences of it.

 

[Mr_Sam_Bones]

All actual research point out that environment is one of the biggest cause of homosexuality, for men sexuality only calcifies at the end of puberty and its malleable up until then, especially between the 12 to 15 age range when hypersexuality appears and a person of that age is more likely to "take what they can get" in the same way an inmate might. Keeping that in mind one can come to the conclusion that if an underage kid lives in an environment that is conducive to homosexuality, such as the US education system, that kid is far more likely to identify as gay when compared to a kid of that age that lives in an environment that is not conducive to homosexuality, for example Mongolia or Chechenia, creating a gay friendly environment is not good, it's tantamount to child abuse and indoctrination . There's absolutely no advantage or reason to be gay, sadly enough gay people are a less than, their sexual feelings can only result in self destruction, STD's, cancers and mechanical stress such as prolapses and tears which lead to incontinence, The culture gay people, gay NGOs and the worldwide LGBT community has built for themselves is also extremely harmful, a den of pedophilia, drug abuse and other californicated hollywood tier degenerate bullshit. In case of lesbians things look more positive, female sexuality is malleable for their whole life hence child abuse is not involved in creating a lesbian, but they're still obese drunk dykes that beat their partners and murder their children much more than the average population. The children of LGBTQ parents are also more likely to be LGBTQ depressed, fat and stupid, aka what the government wants us to be so we'll accept whatever bullshit they wanna pull next election cycle. Transgenders are just mentally ill and a symptom of a broken system in which individuals cannot fulfill their sex driven purposes in life, transgenderism is actually a traditional part in other sick societies such as muslim, judaic and hindu society, where for example a female child might be forced to fulfill the role of a male if her family has no male members and cannot survive day to day life due to restrictions placed on women or to hide the shame of a father who has only fathered daughters. A male child on the other hand might be forced to fulfill the role a female due to poverty and in turn will become a prostitute or crossdressing exotic dancer in hopes of earning their daily bread and attracting a sponsor who might loan him enough money to afford to pay a dowry and start a family. In conclusion the LGBTQ+ is at best suboptimal, at worst a societal sickness, there's literally no argument against this conclusion. With this said, in the future homosexuality and LGBTQ+ identities could be less of a negative trait if they're recognized as suboptimal and efforts are made to optimize them, for example by discouraging drug abuse, fetishism and hypersexuality which are basically synonymous with gay bars and by banning underage individuals who still have a malleable sexuality from engaging with them, instead of statutorily raping them like it is widespread to do today

 

[Noir drag freak]

All actual research point out that environment is one of the biggest cause of homosexuality, for men sexuality only calcifies at the end of puberty and its malleable up until then, especially between the 12 to 15 age range when hypersexuality appears and a person of that age is more likely to "take what they can get" in the same way an inmate might. Keeping that in mind one can come to the conclusion that if an underage kid lives in an environment that is conducive to homosexuality, such as the US education system, that kid is far more likely to identify as gay when compared to a kid of that age that lives in an environment that is not conducive to homosexuality, for example Mongolia or Chechenia, creating a gay friendly environment is not good, it's tantamount to child abuse and indoctrination . There's absolutely no advantage or reason to be gay, sadly enough gay people are a less than, their sexual feelings can only result in self destruction, STD's, cancers and mechanical stress such as prolapses and tears which lead to incontinence, The culture gay people, gay NGOs and the worldwide LGBT community has built for themselves is also extremely harmful, a den of pedophilia, drug abuse and other californicated hollywood tier degenerate bullshit. In case of lesbians things look more positive, female sexuality is malleable for their whole life hence child abuse is not involved in creating a lesbian, but they're still obese drunk dykes that beat their partners and murder their children much more than the average population. The children of LGBTQ parents are also more likely to be LGBTQ depressed, fat and stupid, aka want the government wants us to be so we'll accept whatever bullshit they wanna pull next election cycle. Transgenders are just mentally ill and a symptom of a broken system in which individuals cannot fulfill their sex driven purposes in life, transgenderism is actually a traditional part in other sick societies such as muslim, judaic and hindu society, where for example a female child might be forced to fulfill the role of a male if her family has no male members and cannot survive day to day life due to restrictions placed on women or to hide the shame of a father who has only fathered daughters. A male child on the other hand might be forced to fulfill the role a female due to poverty and in turn will become a prostitute or crossdressing exotic dancer in hopes of earning their daily bread and attracting a sponsor who might loan him enough money to afford to pay a dowry and start a family. In conclusion the LGBTQ+ is at best suboptimal, at worst a societal sickness, there's literally no argument against this conclusion.

So what are you going to do about it? How are you going to fix this broken system?

I agree that homosexuality is caused by the environment. However, I think that people have the right to be a homosexual. They just have to suffer the consequences for it. I disagree with the notion that homosexuals are fated to live a life of "sef-destruction, STD's, cancers and mechanical stress such as prolapses and tears which lead to incontinence." Being a homosexual doesn't mean you have to live the life of gay 1950s pulp novel. Sure, there are non-heterosexuals that go off the deep end and become total train wracks. But it doesn't always to be that way.

It's only gotten really bad in the last decade when "queer" became cool and trendy, and they gay community became inundated with genderhipsters. Back in my day the socially alienated, resentful, attention seeking and drama loving teenagers wore black trenchcoats and listened to shitty music instead. The difference now is that gay rights is an unassailable liberal bastion that these faggots get to hide behind whenever they're at risk of their foolish actions having consequences. They get to enjoy the moral high of feeling edgy and oppressed without actually suffering any consequences of it.

To be fair, homosexuality has always been intertwined with sub-cultures that have those elements.

@Mr_Sam_Bones

I see that you backtracked some. For one thing, the development of homosexual tendencies has to do with family relations before the age of 7. Also, homosexuality hasn't even risen. It's still less then two percent of the population. Another thing, recent studies have shown that non-heterosexual's sexuality tend to shift during their life time.

 

[Whatsup bud?]

It's only gotten really bad in the last decade when "queer" became cool and trendy, and they gay community became inundated with genderhipsters. Back in my day the socially alienated, resentful, attention seeking and drama loving teenagers wore black trenchcoats and listened to shitty music instead. The difference now is that gay rights is an unassailable liberal bastion that these faggots get to hide behind whenever they're at risk of their foolish actions having consequences. They get to enjoy the moral high of feeling edgy and oppressed without actually suffering any consequences of it.

Cis Gays and Lesbians don't get any leeway imho for the stupid shit they do. The troons and genderspecials on the other hand...

Also will be hilarious in the next few years when right wing conservativism becomes the new teenage counter culture and the mainstream moral panic ensues.

 

[Pustus]

I am a bit of a retard but I do know that homosexuality is a historically new idea. From what I remember the Greeks and Romans didn't even have concepts for homosexuality and heterosexuality. It's likely that things sexual norms are just culturally ingrained into people over multiple generations. Does anyone know more about this or am I just retarded?

 

[Osmosis Jones]

I am a bit of a retard but I do know that homosexuality is a historically new idea. From what I remember the Greeks and Romans didn't even have concepts for homosexuality and heterosexuality. It's likely that things sexual norms are just culturally ingrained into people over multiple generations. Does anyone know more about this or am I just retarded?

It's not a historically new idea. Homosexuality has existed across humanity and the animal kingdom forever. Opinions and views have changed over time but don't vary much from what we have seen over the last couple centuries. Labeling it, politicizing it, making it a recognized minority group of people, and giving them specific rights is new(ish). Our views are different now but it's not like Roman dudes didn't understand that they could fuck other dudes.

 

[Kornula]

Then what causes it? Like I said I had a normal middle class childhood with two loving parents. I was never sexually, physically or verbally abused. Even when I was a little boy I knew I liked other boys more than girls. Nothing traumatic happened to me that caused me to be gay, it's just the way I was

Dr. Drew mentioned some tidbit on his TV show once about 20 years ago; That every single one of his gay paitents in therapy were all abused to some degree. He also notied that it was only people in therapy who were abused... and were gay. I was abused as a kid..so were my 3 sisters. I turned out gay..but every single one of my sisters are hetero.

Based on this, we can chuck out the abuse angle as a contributing factor. I know a few gays who were raised with loving supportive parents. We still don't know what drives gays to be gay.. there is no "gay gene".
Honestly I don't think we need to find out why.

All actual research point out that environment is one of the biggest cause of homosexuality, for men sexuality only calcifies at the end of puberty and its malleable up until then, especially between the 12 to 15 age range when hypersexuality appears and a person of that age is more likely to "take what they can get" in the same way an inmate might. Keeping that in mind one can come to the conclusion that if an underage kid lives in an environment that is conducive to homosexuality, such as the US education system, that kid is far more likely to identify as gay when compared to a kid of that age that lives in an environment that is not conducive to homosexuality, for example Mongolia or Chechenia, creating a gay friendly environment is not good, it's tantamount to child abuse and indoctrination . There's absolutely no advantage or reason to be gay, sadly enough gay people are a less than, their sexual feelings can only result in self destruction, STD's, cancers and mechanical stress such as prolapses and tears which lead to incontinence, The culture gay people, gay NGOs and the worldwide LGBT community has built for themselves is also extremely harmful, a den of pedophilia, drug abuse and other californicated hollywood tier degenerate bullshit. In case of lesbians things look more positive, female sexuality is malleable for their whole life hence child abuse is not involved in creating a lesbian, but they're still obese drunk dykes that beat their partners and murder their children much more than the average population. The children of LGBTQ parents are also more likely to be LGBTQ depressed, fat and stupid, aka what the government wants us to be so we'll accept whatever bullshit they wanna pull next election cycle. Transgenders are just mentally ill and a symptom of a broken system in which individuals cannot fulfill their sex driven purposes in life, transgenderism is actually a traditional part in other sick societies such as muslim, judaic and hindu society, where for example a female child might be forced to fulfill the role of a male if her family has no male members and cannot survive day to day life due to restrictions placed on women or to hide the shame of a father who has only fathered daughters. A male child on the other hand might be forced to fulfill the role a female due to poverty and in turn will become a prostitute or crossdressing exotic dancer in hopes of earning their daily bread and attracting a sponsor who might loan him enough money to afford to pay a dowry and start a family. In conclusion the LGBTQ+ is at best suboptimal, at worst a societal sickness, there's literally no argument against this conclusion. With this said, in the future homosexuality and LGBTQ+ identities could be less of a negative trait if they're recognized as suboptimal and efforts are made to optimize them, for example by discouraging drug abuse, fetishism and hypersexuality which are basically synonymous with gay bars and by banning underage individuals who still have a malleable sexuality from engaging with them, instead of statutorily raping them like it is widespread to do today

I honestly stopped reading after "environment is the biggest contributor" There is zero evidence to support ANY reason why people are gay.
Zero.

 

[Ridge Racer]

I seriously doubt there's anyone who would choose to be gay over being, for a lack of better term, normal. In fact, if given the choice, I believe if there was a way to make gay people straight, most would choose to take it without a second thought.

 

[CivilianOfTheFandomWars]

I seriously doubt there's anyone who would choose to be gay over being, for a lack of better term, normal. In fact, if given the choice, I believe if there was a way to make gay people straight, most would choose to take it without a second thought.

Counterpoint.
Why would anyone ever want to deal with women more than absolutely necessary?
To expand on my reasoning, I can and have literally went on my phone, called up my homeboy, and gotten a gobjob while watching Hong Kong action films with no planning whatsoever. That would have been a heroic effort if it was your average guy trying to get an average girl to do that.
Being a fag is not a curse, nay, it is a blessing.

 

[Real Gay Autist]

I seriously doubt there's anyone who would choose to be gay over being, for a lack of better term, normal. In fact, if given the choice, I believe if there was a way to make gay people straight, most would choose to take it without a second thought.

I agree with @CivilianOfTheFandomWars. Guys all want sex; I have that literally at my fingertips if I'm in the mood. Gay relationships can be chill as fuck: basically like hanging out with a really good buddy plus sex plus a lot of guys don't mind if you fuck around on the side too. Like hanging out, playing vidya, drinking beer plus hot sex. You live outside of the boring relationship-to-marriage-to-kids-to-divorce pipeline, no pressure to settle down, no pressure to do/be anything really. If you like kids you can just be a cool af uncle. If you don't grow up in some shithole weirdo homophobic country/cult and you're in the West, things can be pretty damn chill nowadays.

In fact, on the contrary, my experience with close straight dudes is them admitting to being a bit jealous

 

[Noir drag freak]

I seriously doubt there's anyone who would choose to be gay over being, for a lack of better term, normal. In fact, if given the choice, I believe if there was a way to make gay people straight, most would choose to take it without a second thought.

I think it depends.

Counterpoint.
Why would anyone ever want to deal with women more than absolutely necessary?
To expand on my reasoning, I can and have literally went on my phone, called up my homeboy, and gotten a gobjob while watching Hong Kong action films with no planning whatsoever. That would have been a heroic effort if it was your average guy trying to get an average girl to do that.
Being a fag is not a curse, nay, it is a blessing.

I think that homosexuality is more than a sexual attraction and sexual activity. It's a psychology state and a culture. Tbh, I feel more comfortable around gay men than straight men.

 

[CivilianOfTheFandomWars]

I agree with @CivilianOfTheFandomWars. Guys all want sex; I have that literally at my fingertips if I'm in the mood. Gay relationships can be chill as fuck: basically like hanging out with a really good buddy plus sex plus a lot of guys don't mind if you fuck around on the side too. Like hanging out, playing vidya, drinking beer plus hot sex. You live outside of the boring relationship-to-marriage-to-kids-to-divorce pipeline, no pressure to settle down, no pressure to do/be anything really. If you like kids you can just be a cool af uncle. If you don't grow up in some shithole weirdo homophobic country/cult and you're in the West, things can be pretty damn chill nowadays.

In fact, on the contrary, my experience with close straight dudes is them admitting to being a bit jealous

It is a weird dynamic to get used to, not that it’s exactly a bad one I guess.
Like, it’s not uncommon for gay couple to not exactly be ‘official’ for a while, even when it’s obvious to everyone else they’re boyfriends. It’s hard to explain, but it’s like a place between ‘fuckbuddy’ and ‘boyfriend’ sometimes, even when exclusive. I think that’s part of why there’s a good amount of wierd poly stuff in that community, it can be very hard to figure out where everyone stands.

 

[Real Gay Autist]

Like, it’s not uncommon for gay couple to not exactly be ‘official’ for a while, even when it’s obvious to everyone else they’re boyfriends. It’s hard to explain, but it’s like a place between ‘fuckbuddy’ and ‘boyfriend’ sometimes, even when exclusive. I think that’s part of why there’s a good amount of wierd poly stuff in that community, it can be very hard to figure out where everyone stands.

I'm too autistic irl to have experienced that myself but I've definitely observed better-functioning friends/exes who are in exactly those kinds of dynamics. Kind of like a 'actual best friends and we fuck and it's no big deal' vibe. Perhaps it's something which doesn't really exist amongst straight people, at least not generally? As long as the communication is good, it seems like a really free and low-maintenance way of relating to each other.

 

[Noir drag freak]

Can any of you guys find it easy to friends with straight men? I'm not bashing straight men or anything. But I noticed due to my experience, I tend to keep straight men at a distance.

 

[Queen Elizabeth II]

Can any of you guys find it easy to friends with straight men? I'm not bashing straight men or anything. But I noticed due to my experience, I tend to keep straight men at a distance.

Work colleagues? Sure, I can be chatty and friendly with most people.

More than that, like best freinds who do shit in their spare time together? No....And those who I have had that relationship with have turned out to not be entirely "straight".

There are straight men I've spent time with who I think it is down to being frightened that being near a fag is going to turn them gay, they're going to come onto them. For the most part though, it's more a total lack of shared interests. I don't like sports, computer games, cars or anything of the stereotypical "male" things so we have nothing to connect over. Why that is might be interesting to explore. It could partially be that male homosexuals have been long excluded from stereotypical male activities (less so lesbians), it could partially be cultural reinforcement from freind groups (if you hang around with women, until recently the side of society far more tolerant of homosexuality, you may be expected to fill the role of the the funny camp freind), I think it's more a personality thing; men who are inclined to be more submissive do reflect this tendency in other aspects of their lives like their hobbies (as it has tended to be the "total tops" who behave more like straight men in my experience).

Women often seem to bond over shared secrets and sharing things like feelings, where men tend to get more from doing something together. And while I get that there are gay men who like soccer etc most of us don't so there's nothing to do together.

Also the limpwrist dangerhair thing probably frightens men off too, I hate it and avoid queers who do it.