Starcraft

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I don’t care about that. I care that there isn’t a fandom which suits my tastes. I live in a capitalist society. There should be something out there that suits my tastes.

I keep coming back to SC, despite my dislike for the plot and the fandom, because there are no alternatives to occupy my interest.

Then go pay some modder to make your own version of SC instead of whining to us about it. That's what a capitalist would do, right?

 

[L50LasPak]

What the Hell is going on in this thread?

 

[FreedomMussel]

Then go pay some modder to make your own version of SC instead of whining to us about it. That's what a capitalist would do, right?

Too late. Project Hydra is already doing that. It’s in the really early development stages tho, so I’ll probably have to wait several years at least before anything comes of it.

What the Hell is going on in this thread?

I was complaining about the narrative direction that Starcraft went.

 

[Corn Flakes]

What the Hell is going on in this thread?

It turned into the "Debate FreedomMussel on what he would autistically like Starcraft to be, instead of actually talking about Starcraft" thread. I was hoping it would be over quickly but no such luck.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Too late. Project Hydra is already doing that. It’s in the really early development stages tho, so I’ll probably have to wait several years at least before anything comes of it.

So just wait for that. There's no need to keep on sperging and acting as if nothing will sate your taste when there's already something on the way.

 

[FreedomMussel]

So just wait for that. There's no need to keep on sperging and acting as if nothing will sate your taste when there's already something on the way.

It’s an agonizingly long wait.

 

[Same Shit Different Ass]

Yeah so, does anybody want to play SC2 (I'm D3)? I'm up to play BW too but I havent played that in a decade.

 

[jje100010001]

Interesting how Starcraft has largely shuffled off the gaming center stage- wonder if Blizzard has any plans for it, or if they plan to continue faffing about?

 

[FreedomMussel]

Interesting how Starcraft has largely shuffled off the gaming center stage- wonder if Blizzard has any plans for it, or if they plan to continue faffing about?

SC has always been ActiBlizz’s red-headed stepchild. Also, everybody who worked on their RTS titles has long since left the company. I expect that if ActiBlizz do anything with SC in the future, then it will be mobile shovelware.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Interesting how Starcraft has largely shuffled off the gaming center stage- wonder if Blizzard has any plans for it, or if they plan to continue faffing about?

They ended updates for SC2 months ago, and not to mention how WC3 Reforged was a total dud, put Age of Empires 2 back in the hot seat in the RTS genre. Granted, that scene is still very small compared to the big name games.

Going back to the story, how much differently would it have turned out, had Tychus managed to kill Kerrigan off as ordered? Then again, he probably would have ended up dead any way, either by Raynor killing him in response, or Mengsk going "fuck you" and kill Tychus off anyway. At least it would have spared us from the Kerrigan redemption crap.

 

[Corn Flakes]

They ended updates for SC2 months ago, and not to mention how WC3 Reforged was a total dud, put Age of Empires 2 back in the hot seat in the RTS genre. Granted, that scene is still very small compared to the big name games.

No one cares about RTS these days because it's not action-packed enough for the average zoomer, too complex for the average mobile-only "female gamer", and the community is too small to enable the game publishers' Golden Calf: esports. Until publishers stop caring about esports, and until developers realize that not everyone wants more micro, RTS will remain dead as a genre.

It's telling that most RTS released since SC2 that made any kind of splash are either hybrids like Tooth and Tail, or throwbacks to better games like Iron Harvest (with Total Warhammer as an outlier due to being a licensed product). Hopefully the success of C&C Remastered will drum up some interest for the genre.

 

[FreedomMussel]

No one cares about RTS these days because it's not action-packed enough for the average zoomer, too complex for the average mobile-only "female gamer", and the community is too small to enable the game publishers' Golden Calf: esports. Until publishers stop caring about esports, and until developers realize that not everyone wants more micro, RTS will remain dead as a genre.

It's telling that most RTS released since SC2 that made any kind of splash are either hybrids like Tooth and Tail, or throwbacks to better games like Iron Harvest (with Total Warhammer as an outlier due to being a licensed product). Hopefully the success of C&C Remastered will drum up some interest for the genre.

There’s a fair number of new indie RTS coming out within the next few years. Amber, Liquidation, Immortal, Edge of Chaos, Sanctuary, BlackChain, Five Nations...

BlackChain and Five Nations have been pretty fun. They managed to nail pathfinding and core gameplay loop so the basic experience isn’t horribly frustrating.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

What I like most about Starcraft's space marines is that they nail the dystopian nature of human society in their universe far better than other sci-fi dystopias ever do.

When you hear the word "space marine", you automatically begin to assume the best of the best, the cream of the crop. The Adeptus Astartes of the Imperium of Man. The Dark Troopers and Zero-G Space Troopers of the Galactic Empire. The UNSC's Spartans. These are units that are usually reserved for the toughest of missions, units that get the best treatment, equipment, and honors, units that represent the best of their faction.

In Starcraft, however, the Space Marine is not a mighty creature. Instead, he's almost the smallest runt on the battlefield, dwarfing only the Zergling. And instead of being the best of the best, they're just random idiots and criminals drafted by the state, brainwashed by its academic institutions, and shoved inside power armor, all the while, the marine is doped up on drugs that increase their speed and motor functions at the cost of damage to the body. It really goes to show how dystopian the Terran Confederacy and its successor state, the Dominion, were-that they were ready to throw brainwashed criminals into the battlefield with power armor and large guns, encouraging them to take drugs that would damage their bodies just to increase combat effectiveness.

Of course, the UED doesn't share the same idea, as they have medics whose primary function is to heal the marines and keep them at tip-top shape, but prior to the UED's invasion of the Koprulu Sector, the marines of the Confederacy and the Dominion were little more than walking meatshields for the mechanized units and the air force; distractions that can soak up enemy fire so that the heavier units can blow the enemy to bits.

It's a clever reverse of the Space Marine power fantasy, where instead of being the best of the best, they're the bottom bitch of the food chain, and only through numbers and tactics can they win against practically anything that isn't a Zergling. Not to mention that it makes things even more grim than they are in other works, where the guy with power armor and big guns that shoot depleted uranium are barely enough to hold off the common mooks of the other species, let alone their heavy-hitters. Whereas in works like 40K or Halo, even if you're a lowly guardsman/UNSC trooper, if you can hide behind a Primaris Marine or a Spartan-2, you'll usually come out OK against an enemy force.

 

[Corn Flakes]

That's actually a reflection of the setting's power level vs. game balance.

In the games, a Terran Marine can kill a single zergling. If two gang up on him, he's dead.

In the lore, a single Terran Marine in basic bitch CMC-300 powered armor and armed with a C-14 Gauss Rifle is basically unstoppable if you're an unaugmented human. A single Marine can also mow down droves of zerglings and only die when he runs out of ammo. The problem is that... well, there are a thousand zerglings for each Terran Marine in any given battlefield. Meanwhile, the bog-standard Protoss Zealot is likely to have a century or more of training before being warped into the battlefield. The Terran Marine is outmatched, but they're not Imperial Guard levels of outmatched, and they're still head and shoulders above unaugmented infantry to the point no one even bothers to fight on foot if they can't get the powered armor for it.

 

[Snekposter]

That's actually a reflection of the setting's power level vs. game balance.

In the games, a Terran Marine can kill a single zergling. If two gang up on him, he's dead.

In the lore, a single Terran Marine in basic bitch CMC-300 powered armor and armed with a C-14 Gauss Rifle is basically unstoppable if you're an unaugmented human. A single Marine can also mow down droves of zerglings and only die when he runs out of ammo. The problem is that... well, there are a thousand zerglings for each Terran Marine in any given battlefield. Meanwhile, the bog-standard Protoss Zealot is likely to have a century or more of training before being warped into the battlefield. The Terran Marine is outmatched, but they're not Imperial Guard levels of outmatched, and they're still head and shoulders above unaugmented infantry to the point no one even bothers to fight on foot if they can't get the powered armor for it.

Yeah, turns out a mass murderer doped up on combat drugs and given a suit of power armor and a Gauss rifle is not something you want to fuck with. That said, only half or so in any given unit are convicts, rest are volunteers for one reason or another, and are much less keen to hit the stimpacks. And with the Zealot you have the opposite situation. One Zealot is more than a match for a single Marine. But one Zealot versus a squad? He's not walking away.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I haven't read all of the books (lol lorefag), but IIRC the volunteers are either grouped up into their own squads, or assigned to lead the resoc'd marines (who are more docile and "passive"). As for whether or not they'd use stimpacks... well, not every convict that lands in the marines gets put through resoc. Many of the ones with lighter sentences are given the option to join up voluntarily, and some of the non-convict volunteers start out as pretty hardcore types like miners, thugs, petty criminals, frontiersmen and whatnot. So between shooting up and living, or dying clean, most of them go with stimpacks anyway.

40k is memetically grimdark, but the Koprulu Sector isn't too far behind depending on where you are.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I haven't read all of the books (lol lorefag), but IIRC the volunteers are either grouped up into their own squads, or assigned to lead the resoc'd marines (who are more docile and "passive"). As for whether or not they'd use stimpacks... well, not every convict that lands in the marines gets put through resoc. Many of the ones with lighter sentences are given the option to join up voluntarily, and some of the non-convict volunteers start out as pretty hardcore types like miners, thugs, petty criminals, frontiersmen and whatnot. So between shooting up and living, or dying clean, most of them go with stimpacks anyway.

40k is memetically grimdark, but the Koprulu Sector isn't too far behind depending on where you are.

Stimpacks lost their grimdark/dystopian touch when medics came into the picture. They were supposed to be a symbol of how little the Confederacy cares for its space marines, that they'd rather have the marines die faster so long as they did more damage to the enemy. But once the medics came in? Fuck it, you can use as much stimpacks as you want, and it won't hurt for shit. Just stim it up and charge in with the medics behind you, and you'll win the day unless you're massively outgunned.

40K isn't so grimdark as people think it is. No matter how bad things get, the Imperium will always be there, because GW needs to sell Space Marine minis. With Starcraft, governments rise, governments fall, and your race isn't guaranteed to survive. Even the mighty Protoss Empire fell, and they were reduced to refugees running for safety, while the Confederacy was killed by its own technology. The Overmind, which had led the Zerg for countless millennia, died, and its replacement was brainwashed by an army from Earth until it was killed and replaced by an infested Terran general who wasn't even 30 years old yet. There's more suspense in the story, knowing that even old powers that have lasted for millennia such as the Overmind or the Protoss Empire can easily fall, as opposed to a story where the main protagonist faction will always last no matter how bad things are, because merchandising.

 

[Corn Flakes]

You're mistaking in-game mechanics for lore again, my dude.

Medics in-game have this magic healing spell that restores HP on the spot without leaving any trace of damage or adverse effects. Your unit could have been chewed up by zerglings down to 1 HP and be healed back to full health in seconds.

Medics in lore already existed long before the UED showed up in the sector, already caring for wounded Confederate Marines. The difference is that the UED brought in power-armored frontline Medics. The shields they carried were both meant to protect the Medic, and also to allow them some cover while dragging fallen Marines in for field-expedient surgery to stabilize them and keep them alive. Nowhere did it say that they prevented the smorgasbord of issues stimpacks caused, either. They aren't healing Marines instantly like they do in-game: even if they can put one back on his feet if the injury that took him down was minor enough, it'll still require at little time and it won't repair damaged armor or regrow lost limbs.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I was talking about the gameplay effect of medics and how it utterly removed the dystopian feel of stimpacks ingame.

The difference is, Confederate medics only patched you up after the battle. Meaning that any damage from battle or stimpacks will be permanent until after the battle, whereas UED medics are right next to you and will heal you when you take damage from drugs or battle, meaning that you can stim your marines without any risk and have them chew through anything that isn't doesn't have heavier firepower. Considering that medics can also heal you from all sorts of diseases or effects from enemies with medical nanobots that can literally repair your cells in the middle of a fight. So yeah, they have a lore-friendly reason as to how a medic can heal you from both stimpacks or battle damage. NANOMACHINES, SON!

Yes, it sounds stupid, but that is literally the example stated in the lore as to how they heal people mid-fight:

Medic

Terran marines are the toughest frag magnets in the galaxy. But when they're in trouble, guess who they call?Lieutenant Rosa Morales The medic (or combat physician) is a terran unit that can heal friendly biological ground units. Bein' a medic isn't too different from being a soldier. I just...

starcraft.fandom.com

"When stabilizer medpacks are available, medics gain access to the latest generation of injectable medical nanobots, programmed for cellular hyper-repair."

Combine that with the nano-conveyed anesthetics and the chemical modifiers in their kit, and they can deal with any tissue damage or side effects caused by stimpack use.

 

[FreedomMussel]

Fun fact: according to the official website prior to release, the UED wasn’t originally going to be written into BW (instead the terran plot would have been a conspiracy within the Dominion), but medics still were planned. Take that how you will.