World Of Darkness General (VtM, WtO, MtA, etc.)

[Corn Flakes]

I take you haven't met much higher ups in game studios or dumb ass project managers who are their lackeys...they're pretty out of touch with how things work and they want it faster with less cost always.

I like Dawkins (I don't like his SJW tendencies but that's every RP writer now who doesn't want the leftist mob to lynch them) but I do believe him on this one. And genuinely believe someone would pinch pennies to this degree as to not spend that much on a new edition. They wanted v5 quickly. It shows. It needed more time in the oven.

Either way, this does not bode well for the IP.

 

[knightlautrec]

Either way, this does not bode well for the IP.

Oh yeah - no. V5 is gonna be a blip. We'll get games out of it but the TT is gonna suffer and I imagine they'll stop investing so much in it. They've already turned to Onyx Path to handle things and they're just kickstarting add ons.

Cult of the Blood God's is is finally in print but only did marginally better than Chicago by Night kickstart wise. 140K for a beloved IP that still has autistic spergs that double down and pay out the nose for revised books is pretty awful turn out. I'd love to see what us WW weirdos spend on DriveThruRPG print on demand services cuz I've used it a few times to snag old books I didn't have but wanted. That's at least 300 bucks in the past few months.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

Part the Fourth, in which Zak comes SO CLOSE to a realization and stops at the last minute in the manner of his nemesis, David Hill (Archive)

Oh yeah - no. V5 is gonna be a blip. We'll get games out of it but the TT is gonna suffer and I imagine they'll stop investing so much in it. They've already turned to Onyx Path to handle things and they're just kickstarting add ons.

Cult of the Blood God's is is finally in print but only did marginally better than Chicago by Night kickstart wise. 140K for a beloved IP that still has autistic spergs that double down and pay out the nose for revised books is pretty awful turn out. I'd love to see what us WW weirdos spend on DriveThruRPG print on demand services cuz I've used it a few times to snag old books I didn't have but wanted. That's at least 300 bucks in the past few months.

A WoD TV series is in development and it was one of Paradox's goals when they bought the IP.

The initial murmurings do not bode well.

 

[Mola Ram]

The initial murmurings do not bode well.

“The World of Darkness story universe is deliberately and unapologetically inclusive and diverse,” Boylan said in a statement. “It has always made a point of including equal gendered characters, protagonists and antagonists of every race, and representation of all creeds — bringing a female and diverse audience to gaming like nothing prior. Its games and fandom are a place where women, POC, and the LGBTQI community feel welcome and we are very proud to bring these stories to life.”

“The legacy of these stories is way ahead of its time, inviting issues and perspectives other games ignored,” Heisserer added. “This feels like the next step for genre.”

This is an ipecac in written form.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I said it before and I'll say it again: if "diversity is our strength!" is the lesson they got out of World of Darkness, then it's going to suck harder than a lamprey on ecstasy.

Unfortunately, it'll also be hailed like the best thing since sliced bread by the media even as the ratings are lukewarm-to-cold. Media has gone through a vampire phase ages ago, this shit has missed the bus by at least 12 years.

 

[White Devil]

I'm still mad about the WoD MMO getting cancelled (despite the fact that it probably never would have been finished anyway), but all this shit is just taking a dump on a corpse at this point.

 

[Mola Ram]

Unfortunately, it'll also be hailed like the best thing since sliced bread by the media even as the ratings are lukewarm-to-cold. Media has gone through a vampire phase ages ago, this shit has missed the bus by at least 12 years.

I actually doubt this. I suspect the writing is going to be abject garbage, partly because it's such a huge setting (with lots of elements that have aged badly, or weren't all that hot to begin with), and partly because it's unlikely to attract a high caliber of writer. They may praise the diversity, but unless it distinguishes itself from the ocean of woke genre trash that's already out there, it's not going to turn any heads.

 

[Snekposter]

V5 was littered with reused assets. Chapter intro fiction from the Revised artbook, concept art from the failed MMO and the like.

I'm not sure why anyone is the least bit surprised a Paradox game (yes, I know, TTRPG, but still), was released in a buggy, beta state with lazy asset flips, terrible game design decisions, and wonky mechanics.

 

[Pentex]

Part the Fourth, in which Zak comes SO CLOSE to a realization and stops at the last minute in the manner of his nemesis, David Hill (Archive)


A WoD TV series is in development and it was one of Paradox's goals when they bought the IP.

The initial murmurings do not bode well.

There are hundreds of simple examples of this kind of motivated reasoning around Vampire. Martin Ericsson, one of the Important Swedes at White Wolf, is a big nerd, of course, so he calls himself "Martin Elricson" like, y'know, Elric. And he signs his emails "Blood and souls" like, y'know, in the extremely well-known-especially-in-RPG-circles fantasy classic Elric series. And Something Awful goons were like "Blood and souls? That sounds like Blood and Soil! Nazis! Nazis!" It's not like they google him. And when he explained it, it's not like they apologized or did any introspection.

It got worse when White Wolf put out something which had, among other things, a picture of some dice. The dice had a 1 a 4 and an 8 and another 8. Most people were like ok, sure those are dice, and turned the page--but the mob decided THATS A NAZI DOGWHISTLE!!!! In responce to said whistle, a dog duly appeared.

Specifically, this invited a long post by a teenage-vampire-erotica-writing furry known only (then) as "Dog With Dice". Dog With Dice had an elaborate multipage conspiracy theory that Vampire 5e was designed by and aimed at Nazis. Dog With Dice is not famous or influential and the post was riddled with mistakes that were (altlogether now) easy to check. But that never stopped the Something Awful goons.

Yeah, Zak, it's almost as if the people on your side are dishonest, underhanded little halfwits who are desperate to acquire power by any means and will smear anyone to get it.

But please, keep going with the lame Orange Man Bad schtick while failing to realize that your hated troon and goons (David Hill and Something Awful) tried the same tack on you.

None of it was in good faith. Anyone in-the-know enough to care what the acronym "VTM5e" even meant knew enough to be able to figure out this made no sense. Yet somehow not one of them remembered to mention: I'm fucking Jewish.

That's a lot of Uncles who have a problem with a Jew asking not to be called a Nazi.

Well Zak, there are also a lot of goyim who ask not to be called Nazis, yet here we are.

Again, it seems your side has adopted a similar philosophy to Hermann Göring, who declared in 1944, "Wer Jude ist, bestimme ich."

 

[Rakdos92]

Again, it seems your side has adopted a similar philosophy to Hermann Göring, who declared in 1944, "Wer Jude ist, bestimme ich."

For those who don't understand: "I decide who is a jew."

 

[knightlautrec]

So - worse WoD player stories offline and online? I imagine online has more horror stories than offline because online people are absolute animals but I've had to play online for the past few months due to wuflu and while some of it has been fine. (Ie: small written session games run by friends of friends), I've been subjected to some annoying assholes trying to 'play' WoD.

It's just a shame. Especially for niche games that get created online because real life I can't get my friends to play Demon but online I can find at least a few willing weirdos but the operative word here is 'weirdos' as I'm finding.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Well at least he's finally spilling the beans even if he over emphasizes his spat with Hill. The actual reason they hated v5 is because onyx path was pissed they wernt making it so took any shot they could-zack is one such shot. although evil hats role in current rpg social trends is nice to have confirmed.
The idea that anyone would recruit sa goons for anything is hilarious, their supposed woke tendancies are mostly to an performance to act like 4chan with a facade of legitimacy and their own power struggles ..moreso than standard sjw's that is.

 

[Pentex]

So - worse WoD player stories offline and online? I imagine online has more horror stories than offline because online people are absolute animals but I've had to play online for the past few months due to wuflu and while some of it has been fine. (Ie: small written session games run by friends of friends), I've been subjected to some annoying assholes trying to 'play' WoD.

It's just a shame. Especially for niche games that get created online because real life I can't get my friends to play Demon but online I can find at least a few willing weirdos but the operative word here is 'weirdos' as I'm finding.

(One of) my Worst offline players - Table had a player who copiously expended blood doing stupid shit (blood for strength to lift every mortal NPC we met by the neck). It would be cringe enough since we had a Presence-monster in the group who could have just seduced or intimidated the info we wanted out of characters, but he liked to be hungry so he could go 'hunting.' His preferred prey? Coma-ward of the local hospital.

His name was Buck and he liked to suck.

Usually with graphic descriptions of how he would sneak into comatose mortals' rooms, sniff their body parts to make sure they were 'fresh' stick his head under their blankets and gowns so that he could feed from their femoral artery, how he would squeeze their fluid bag to watch their bodies spasm, leave claw marks on their bodies to 'mark' them as his 'property', and other weird shit.

Eventually, after about the fourth or fifth of these little hospital sidetrips that he insisted on having aside from our main quest, our Nosferatu ex-priest dropped a dime on him to the Society of Leopold, who were waiting at the hospital the next time he went to feed. The Prince forced him to leave the city on pain of a formal Blood Hunt and the player left the game.

 

[Lithos]

So - worse WoD player stories offline and online? I imagine online has more horror stories than offline because online people are absolute animals but I've had to play online for the past few months due to wuflu and while some of it has been fine. (Ie: small written session games run by friends of friends), I've been subjected to some annoying assholes trying to 'play' WoD.

It's just a shame. Especially for niche games that get created online because real life I can't get my friends to play Demon but online I can find at least a few willing weirdos but the operative word here is 'weirdos' as I'm finding.

Something I find funny about roleplaying online is how many people in the WoD community are absolutely married to their characters. These characters often have a very "My Immortal" background to them. Usually those that want to play something other than the standard Camarilla clans. Mostly Lasombra and Tzimisce, but totally broke away from the Sabbat. Is this what you've been experiencing?

It's amusing that you see far more ads for people begging to join a game with their character than there are people running games.

I think I saw worse for when I used to run Star Trek Adventures games. So many people submitted ex-Tal Shiar Romulans, usually with a detailed backstory with some kind of rape experience. That squicked me out. If you're bored, post a vague recruitment message for a Star Trek Adventures game on Roll20 or Discord servers, and see how many Romulan applicants you get.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

Part, the Fifth: CHECHNYA HAS JOINED THE SERVER! (Archive)

 

[Corn Flakes]

Part, the Fifth: CHECHNYA HAS JOINED THE SERVER! (Archive)

The Chechnya thing reminded me of how much I hate the real real real, personal political horror angle they took with their fucking books. It completely destroyed the fantasy of the setting: the World of Darkness always broke down whenever real-life rules were applied to it.

Fuck whoever came up with that design guideline, up the ass, with an i-beam covered in broken glass.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

The Chechnya thing reminded me of how much I hate the real real real, personal political horror angle they took with their fucking books. It completely destroyed the fantasy of the setting: the World of Darkness always broke down whenever real-life rules were applied to it.

Fuck whoever came up with that design guideline, up the ass, with an i-beam covered in broken glass.

From all of the promotion they were doing in the lead up to V5? It seemed to be Martin Ericsson’s idea.

 

[Pentex]

Part, the Fifth: CHECHNYA HAS JOINED THE SERVER! (Archive)

• In the Camarilla book, the Vampire team (still operating on the policy: real real real, personal political horror) created this piece of in-game lore that Chechnya's state-sponsored murders of LGBT+ people were actually disguised anti-vampire pogroms.
• Realistically, really, honestly, in good faith, the actual effect of this on most readers was either they barely noticed it and just kept reading because it's exactly the kind of thing you'd expect to read in a book trying to be now now now real real real personal political horror or "Oh, there are anti-LGBT+ pogroms in Chechnya? Wow that's a bad thing, I am glad to learn about this real-life issue in a made-up game about vampires".
• On November 8th, 2018, Paul Matijevic aka Ettin (who is not L or G or B or T or +, so far as anyone knows) dug the paragraph up and launched the idea this Chechnya reference was Social Justice Bad. (Receipts for this whole chain of events.) This was at least the third time he and his goons had aggressively mined the game looking for something to have a bad-faith take on.
• All the usual suspects bought it, hook, line and sinker.
• His take went viral.
• It went so viral someone from the actual Chechnyan government found out about it.
• The Chechnyan government began to put real dictatorship-scale pressure on White Wolf, claiming this White Wolf book was slanderous.
• Before the month was over White Wolf had to apologize to fucking Chechnya.

There are a few lessons to be learned all of this, Zak.

First, by your own admission, nobody cares to read about your cause du jour in their elf games.

Second, name-dropping living people as supernatural monsters in your elf game is incredibly stupid (Sultan Ramzan). Even if I thought it was funny to publish a chronicle where President Ehud Obama was a baby-eating Nephandi who received his infernal investitures by taking demon semen to his lower intestine via a 14 inch spiky demon dick, and even if it survived a defamation suit (Hustler v. Falwell), to normies, it would likely be considered in poor taste, because 'political horror' is FUCKING STUPID.

Third, if you know anything about the history of the Chechens you would know that riling them up is a bad idea. The Chechens are the only people on Earth that the Mongols figured it was easier to just go around than to subjugate. Putin bribed Ahkmad Kadyrov rather than continue fighting the Chechen insurgents. Ramzan Kadyrov was his father's second-in-command in an honest jihadi paramilitary/death squad. Thumbing your noses at him, like a pack of prissy, limp-wristed liberal faggots was a retarded play from the get-go. Of course Russia was going to apply legal pressure to White Wolf people in Russia to keep Ramzan happy. A quiet Chechnya (and its oil reserves) is more valuable to Putin than the goodwill of Swedecucks armed with poisoned pens.

Fourth, Ettin64, like all powermods/super-Tweeters should be ignored.

Nobody could explain any way the paragraph itself could cause harm--nobody was seriously claiming that people playing would be fooled into thinking vampires were real and homophobes weren't.

And: If you write a made-up vampire story based on the genuinely monstrous truth about a dictatorship being genuinely monstrous to marginalized people and then it makes that dictatorship mad, that would usually be taken by most people as a sign you're on the good guy team and, if anything, perhaps a tad too zealously so.

"Tee hee hee, I made the dictator mad! Aren't I such a brave good guy?"

No Zak, you aren't on the good guy team. What you and the rest of the fucking muppets in make-believe land fail to grasp, which is why you can't write politics for shit, is that there is no 'good guy team' in politics. Everybody is an asshole, because even when you're genuinely a decent man, that's what it takes to keep the plotters and grifters and petty tyrants at bay. Cincinnatus had to be a (temporary) dictator to save Rome.

 

[Rakdos92]

Snip

>placing leeches and faggots on the same level
>implying that a dictatorship is bad for removing either.
Wew, lad.

 

[Techpriest]

Wait, so Zac was behind the cringe Chechnya bit? Something that essentially everyone found fucking retarded?



So this whole fucking thing, this entire tell all, is Zac trying to justify this single decision which basically killed V5 as a game for years. Holy shit this dude is a whiny piece of shit.