The Metroid 2 Effect - Is this real or am I insane

[X Pac Heat]

People have always wanted more Metriod, ever since the first one, then they get more Metroid and it doesn't sell that well. The Metroid Effect also applies to Igavanias and for all the talk I don't think a new Earthbound/Mother would sell that well in the west.

It's sad because Nintendos best franchises have the smallest fanbases.

Meanwhile stupid shit like Animal Crossing keeps getting dumbed down and only keeps selling more and more.

 

[Disc]

You also have to keep in mind... happy people are a lot quieter than unhappy ones, especially when a game series takes a new direction.

Even games that have been largely panned (like SwSh) have had the zeitgeist opinions of them soften over time, as the people who disliked the game focused on other things. Gen V were shit on left and right when it was their time, now people praise them like it's the best ever. It's not because the games have changed, and it's not even necessarily that the people have drastically changed their minds, but the people who didn't like them have moved on, and the people who did like them seem louder by comparison.

 

[Leblanc]

then, when AM2R and Samus Returns came out, suddenly it was everyone's favorite Metroid game and these remakes were shitting on its legacy of isolation and horror etc etc etc. (Personally I love both and even loved Metroid 2 long before either, I have fond memories of being called a faggot on /v/ for calling it an underrated gem

Okay I get why you'd include Samus returns but, fucking AM2R? Who the hell is shitting on that most people consider that (rightfully) a great game, fuck I'd go so far to say it was the best Metroid game since zero mission (INCLUDING the prime trilogy)

 

[Dom Cruise]

Arkham Origins is actually my favorite Arkham game, but I totally admit that it's because I have a weird fondness for Batman in Winter/Christmas setting due to Batman Returns being one of the first movies I can remember watching, and I didn't have any bugs when I played the game.

The Christmas setting was one of the most clever ideas that made the reuse of environments forgivable.

I don't understand what the problem was supposed to be, they always said it was a side story, not a full on "Arkham 3", a side story reusing some old maps but making the vibe significantly different while still adding a new area and overall being a good game is good enough for me.

But I similarly feel Arkham Knight is underrated, yes the batmobile stuff is overdone and could have been better, but I still felt like overall it was a great game (though to be fair a lot of it's bad reputation probably stems from the PC version being busted at launch), I feel like Knight will probably undergo a "Metroid 2 effect" over time, especially as it was one of the last AAA games made before the Woke zeitgeist really took over.

I don't know why people were so hard on the Arkham games post City but to be fair City was definitely the best one.

And ironically, I think it wasn't going to be a Silent Hill game until the last minute.

I thought Silent Hill: Origins was good too. I know lore people get annoyed by it, but it was fun to play.

Origins actually did have it's moments, it was better than Homecoming and Downpour, it's just the story that sucked.

Climax definitely "got" Silent Hill in a way none of the other western devs did, which is why Shattered Memories was solid, why Konami didn't task them with making another as third time probably would have really been the charm I don't know.

 

[LightDragonman1]

My feelings for Metroid 2 is that I neither love nor hate it. It's an alright game that laid down further foundations for future entries, but suffers from it's limitations. With the exception of the music in the starting are the soundtrack is very mediocre (in a franchise known for it's excellent music), and the monochrome graphics make everything look the same. I'm sure that it's blind defenders insist they're features and not bugs, though, which is stupid as hell. Metroid would've been a one and done if it didn't have it's distinctive graphics and music. And it still gets across the idea of isolation in a hostile, alien world just fine. Even ambience is a poor excuse since Metroid conveyed that just fine with music. It wasn't like the Prime days when they could convey that perfectly with background hums or sounds. And they still used cool music to create the mood to boot.

Metroid 2's limitations are what made it ripe for remake, official or otherwise. Same reason why the original game got a remake ages ago, which itself had a far bit of hate against it at the time for daring to expand with new areas, bosses, and weapons (in the end). It's also why Super Metroid hasn't gotten a remake: save doing it in 3D or animated (in the vein of DuckTales Remastered), what more could they add or do to improve the experience?

Most people who are bashing Samus Returns and the like say that the developers of the original knew the limitations of the original Game Boy, and used it to their advantage to make a somber and melancholy experience at the end, and that the remakes decision to go more action packed at the end is a complete disrespect to the franchise and the game's original vision.

Seriously, the Metroid fanbase is one of the most insufferable I've ever come across.

 

[X Pac Heat]

Seriously, the Metroid fanbase is one of the most insufferable I've ever come across.

I feel like this is the result of there being such huge gaps in between releases. The fanbase is so segmented it might as well be different fanbases with how die hard many of them are over which game is *the best* and the weird justifications behind it.

If Other M had released in 2017 instead of 2010 I bet there would be people claiming it's the best because of how cinematic it is and shit all over the other ones.

 

[Dark Edea]

If Other M had released in 2017 instead of 2010 I bet there would be people claiming it's the best because of how cinematic it is and shit all over the other ones.

Sadly you are right but only because bad taste is the rule now. If you have good taste in games you are a misogynist and nobody will report your opinion.

 

[The handsome tard]

You also have to keep in mind... happy people are a lot quieter than unhappy ones, especially when a game series takes a new direction.

Even games that have been largely panned (like SwSh) have had the zeitgeist opinions of them soften over time, as the people who disliked the game focused on other things. Gen V were shit on left and right when it was their time, now people praise them like it's the best ever. It's not because the games have changed, and it's not even necessarily that the people have drastically changed their minds, but the people who didn't like them have moved on, and the people who did like them seem louder by comparison.

That depends. Gen 5 is mostly appreciated for being the entry that took the most risks and ambition with its plot and characters...then the series never seemed to take too many risks with its plot and characters since, which is disappointing because technical limitations cant even be used as an excuse. Also, gen 5 had amazing post game content, especially B/W 2 like the pokemon world tournament, bringing back TONS of previous gym leaders, elite four members and champions (Red included) and the fact that all gens after this seem content with just giving us bare bones post game, even in Gen 3 remakes lacking the Battle Frontier (which again, technical limitations are not an excuse at this point). Gen 5 wasnt perfect but it had stuff that the following gens SHOULD have followed and built upon.

SwSh is a different beast to me, their problems go beyond the realm of a barren post game content and plot, it goes right down to shit that even previous gens didnt dare to lack, like a complete Pokedex (and to any motherfuckers say that they will complete it through DLC like thats a good thing, fuck you, you are part of the problem) and the fact the game DOESNT look like a Switch game. SwSh was expected to be the Breath of The Wild of Pokemon games and yet we got a remastered 3DS game that shamelessly reuses animations and then the devs have the guts to claim that it was all due to memory...when they are now on a stronger hardware...MEMORY!

It oozes of corporate greed and that shit aint going to be seen in a better light in a few years' time. Gen 5's flaws were subjective, while Gen 8's flaws are objective.

I don't know why people were so hard on the Arkham games post City but to be fair City was definitely the best one.

If I had to give my opinion I think its because City just felt like the Batman experience people wanted for DECADES. Asylum was great but City truly felt like the true batman open world experience. The atmosphere, plot, characters, setting. It all dripped with batman, rewarding those that were veterans for the most part. It felt a game made by Batman fans to Batman fans.

And I think City may have spoiled us a little bit because Knight had the difficult task of improving that experience somehow and I think it did well for the most part, its just people just expected a jump akin from going from Asylum to City was. Surpassing the awe you felt when you were unleashed on Arkham City would be impossible to replicate honestly. Besides, the whole setup for Gotham being empty so quickly because of a Scarecrow threat kind of felt a rushed excuse to get rid of citizens and just leave criminals. Not that I disagree with that course of action, leaving citizens walking around would make things a tad difficult to work around and to avoid batman from hurting (because players would obviously try to hurt innocents sooner or later). Its too much to consider so it felt better just empty Gotham city up. Besides, Knight just made the whole "Batman doesnt kill" become just utterly insane, especially with things like the batmobile and vehicle driven enemies.

Like, if batman causes them to crash their car, they will always be fine, either standing on their feet like nothing happened or just "knocked out"...lets just face it, thats just to avoid discussions on if that would count as Batman breaking his one rule if they died or not (even tho it was their fault).

In city, there were no vehicles and I think that helped maintain a healthy level of suspension of disbelief that these morons couldnt get killed by Batman. When you add vehicles into the mix, both from them and Batman, it adds a whole new can of worms.

Still, Knight is fine as it is, maybe a bit forced on some parts (dont get me started on how they HAD to force the joker in this because Mark Hamill is a joy to listen) but this is long enough as it is.

I feel like this is the result of there being such huge gaps in between releases. The fanbase is so segmented it might as well be different fanbases with how die hard many of them are over which game is *the best* and the weird justifications behind it.

If Other M had released in 2017 instead of 2010 I bet there would be people claiming it's the best because of how cinematic it is and shit all over the other ones.

Im a rare breed that likes Metroid but doesnt drool over Super Metroid and its rabbid fans piss me the hell off. I hate when I get lost, I gotta go into "well, gotta backtrack until I find that one hidden entrance I can now access"...its done great in other metroidvanias but I just didnt felt it in Super Metroid and everyone says that its spetacular and all...Super Metroid is just an exausting game to play to me. Fusion feels way better in my eyes.

And if Other M came to today, it would get hated upon because it has an attractive woman in a blue skin tight suit that weeps and needs a man to save her. And beautiful women are a no no in the western gaming market...aparently. Personally I prefer Samus when she is a space amazon, she would be at least 7 ft tall with a some visible muscle under the Zero Suit...the type of person that you could see wearing that armor and that you wouldnt want to get on the bad side of. The Other M design feels like it doesnt do Samus Aran justice, she is too short and slim, I cant see her taking on space dragons.

 

[X Pac Heat]

Im a rare breed that likes Metroid but doesnt drool over Super Metroid and its rabbid fans piss me the hell off. I hate when I get lost, I gotta go into "well, gotta backtrack until I find that one hidden entrance I can now access"...its done great in other metroidvanias but I just didnt felt it in Super Metroid and everyone says that its spetacular and all...Super Metroid is just an exausting game to play to me. Fusion feels way better in my eyes.

You say this is rare but I've seen way more people shit on Super Metroid and praise Fusion in the recent memory.

Like I feel the exact opposite. Metroid Fusion just feels too straightforward to me and I like the floatier feel of Super. Of course, I've been playing Super since I was 4 years old so it goes a lot into what I said about long gaps causing generational preferences.

But even then, I still like Fusion and appreciate it's more horror/anxiety filled atmosphere. If Fusion was just another Super Metroid it'd be like...what's the point?

I don't know, I've seen so much shit throwing between Super and Fusion it just annoys me when both games are masterfully done.

 

[The handsome tard]

You say this is rare but I've seen way more people shit on Super Metroid and praise Fusion in the recent memory.

Like I feel the exact opposite. Metroid Fusion just feels too straightforward to me and I like the floatier feel of Super. Of course, I've been playing Super since I was 4 years old so it goes a lot into what I said about long gaps causing generational preferences.

But even then, I still like Fusion and appreciate it's more horror/anxiety filled atmosphere. If Fusion was just another Super Metroid it'd be like...what's the point?

I don't know, I've seen so much shit throwing between Super and Fusion it just annoys me when both games are masterfully done.

To be fair, my feelings towards Super are mostly on me, I admit that this might be a case where I just didnt get into it properly or maybe I just didnt feel it. I dont bash people that do enjoy it, its just their preference as I have mine. Maybe I will give it another try today.

 

[X Pac Heat]

To be fair, my feelings towards Super are mostly on me, I admit that this might be a case where I just didnt get into it properly or maybe I just didnt feel it. I dont bash people that do enjoy it, its just their preference as I have mine. Maybe I will give it another try today.

I mean you're not wrong in how you feel about Super. There's a lot of backtracking unless you *really* get to know the map, certain tricks/exploits and a general "feel" for how the game works in regards to secret entrances and stuff.

That's what annoys me about Super fanboys. They can't seem to comprehend how it might be hard for someone who didn't have 8 years of just playing Super to get into the game. I feel like a lot of them have played it so much that they just kind of forget how much of a puzzle the game is when you actually play it straightforward with no experience or knowledge beforehand.

Even playing with a guide you're still going to have trouble until you play it at least once, and maybe even a few times.

 

[Dark Edea]

And if Other M came to today, it would get hated upon because it has an attractive woman in a blue skin tight suit that weeps and needs a man to save her.

Other M got hated upon back when it came out for that exact reason. It was entirely out of character for what people assumed was Samus' personality. And also the gameplay was complete trash. I got that game at release and a friend and I sat down to play it. Within a few hours we put the game down and never played it again.

Other M is shit. Press S to spit.

 

[The handsome tard]

Other M got hated upon back when it came out for that exact reason. It was entirely out of character for what people assumed was Samus' personality. And also the gameplay was complete trash. I got that game at release and a friend and I sat down to play it. Within a few hours we put the game down and never played it again.

Other M is shit. Press S to spit.

Indeed but we hated it because it was out of character, Samus shouldnt act like that.
Today it would get hated for different "offensive" reasons, thats what I meant. These people dont care about characters.

 

[Dark Edea]

Indeed but we hated it because it was out of character, Samus shouldnt act like that.
Today it would get hated for different "offensive" reasons, thats what I meant. These people dont care about characters.

Only agendas.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Indeed but we hated it because it was out of character, Samus shouldnt act like that.
Today it would get hated for different "offensive" reasons, thats what I meant. These people dont care about characters.

I think one of the lesser gamergate articles actually tried that. It didn't stick for obvious reasons.

 

[Back me up!]

I think one of the lesser gamergate articles actually tried that. It didn't stick for obvious reasons.

I think that was around the same time Brinna Wu trying to claim that Samus was trans. Which also got a resounding "Fuck Off".

Man when is Zelda 2 gonna get is resurgence? That is one I would love to see a remake/remaster.

 

[Dom Cruise]

If I had to give my opinion I think its because City just felt like the Batman experience people wanted for DECADES. Asylum was great but City truly felt like the true batman open world experience. The atmosphere, plot, characters, setting. It all dripped with batman, rewarding those that were veterans for the most part. It felt a game made by Batman fans to Batman fans.

And I think City may have spoiled us a little bit because Knight had the difficult task of improving that experience somehow and I think it did well for the most part, its just people just expected a jump akin from going from Asylum to City was. Surpassing the awe you felt when you were unleashed on Arkham City would be impossible to replicate honestly. Besides, the whole setup for Gotham being empty so quickly because of a Scarecrow threat kind of felt a rushed excuse to get rid of citizens and just leave criminals. Not that I disagree with that course of action, leaving citizens walking around would make things a tad difficult to work around and to avoid batman from hurting (because players would obviously try to hurt innocents sooner or later). Its too much to consider so it felt better just empty Gotham city up. Besides, Knight just made the whole "Batman doesnt kill" become just utterly insane, especially with things like the batmobile and vehicle driven enemies.

Like, if batman causes them to crash their car, they will always be fine, either standing on their feet like nothing happened or just "knocked out"...lets just face it, thats just to avoid discussions on if that would count as Batman breaking his one rule if they died or not (even tho it was their fault).

In city, there were no vehicles and I think that helped maintain a healthy level of suspension of disbelief that these morons couldnt get killed by Batman. When you add vehicles into the mix, both from them and Batman, it adds a whole new can of worms.

Still, Knight is fine as it is, maybe a bit forced on some parts (dont get me started on how they HAD to force the joker in this because Mark Hamill is a joy to listen) but this is long enough as it is.

Yes, City to Knight is not quite as big of a leap as from Asylum to City and having to work around not having Batman kill anyone leads to some awkward things, but it's still a great game.

Im a rare breed that likes Metroid but doesnt drool over Super Metroid and its rabbid fans piss me the hell off. I hate when I get lost, I gotta go into "well, gotta backtrack until I find that one hidden entrance I can now access"...its done great in other metroidvanias but I just didnt felt it in Super Metroid and everyone says that its spetacular and all...Super Metroid is just an exausting game to play to me. Fusion feels way better in my eyes.

And if Other M came to today, it would get hated upon because it has an attractive woman in a blue skin tight suit that weeps and needs a man to save her. And beautiful women are a no no in the western gaming market...aparently. Personally I prefer Samus when she is a space amazon, she would be at least 7 ft tall with a some visible muscle under the Zero Suit...the type of person that you could see wearing that armor and that you wouldnt want to get on the bad side of. The Other M design feels like it doesnt do Samus Aran justice, she is too short and slim, I cant see her taking on space dragons.

Super Metroid is the only Metroid I've played start to finish, I liked it a lot but I honestly like some of the Castlevania Metroidvanias, namely Symphony, Aria and Dawn, more.

Part of that is simply theming, exploring a gothic castle is cooler to me than Metroid's sci fi theme, but I also found it easier to get lost and not know what to do than in the Castlevania games.

Indeed but we hated it because it was out of character, Samus shouldnt act like that.
Today it would get hated for different "offensive" reasons, thats what I meant. These people dont care about characters.

That's the first time I remember people really raising a stink about a female character in a game, it seemed reasonable at the time, but that sort of shit became unreasonable real quick.

 

[MysticMisty]

Most people who are bashing Samus Returns and the like say that the developers of the original knew the limitations of the original Game Boy, and used it to their advantage to make a somber and melancholy experience at the end, and that the remakes decision to go more action packed at the end is a complete disrespect to the franchise and the game's original vision.

Seriously, the Metroid fanbase is one of the most insufferable I've ever come across.

How is fighting a giant fucking monster somber and melancholy?

I feel like a lot of them have played it so much that they just kind of forget how much of a puzzle the game is when you actually play it straightforward with no experience or knowledge beforehand.

I still remember the first time I played Super Metroid. I went in blind and had an absolute blast. Everytime I'd find a new suit expansion I'd think of places I couldn't reach beforehand, backtrack to those locations, discover powerups and new areas I could progress to. It was very exciting, and if people don't get that feeling when playing any Metroid game, then the Metroid franchise isn't for them.

 

[LightDragonman1]

How is fighting a giant fucking monster somber and melancholy?

It's mainly the build up to it. The whole lack of enemies and the more desolate environment, essentially hammering home how much you've utterly decimated the Metroids.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

I still remember the first time I played Super Metroid. I went in blind and had an absolute blast. Everytime I'd find a new suit expansion I'd think of places I couldn't reach beforehand, backtrack to those locations, discover powerups and new areas I could progress to. It was very exciting, and if people don't get that feeling when playing any Metroid game, then the Metroid franchise isn't for them.

Part of what made back tracking in Super Metroid easy and not much of a chore was that a lot of the enemies weren't hyper-aggressive so it was more like running through an obstacle course and getting increasingly better and faster at it. Then you get more items that make you more powerful, faster and more agile which made sweeping an area faster and faster.

That's one of the things that bothered me in Samus Returns, the enemies were very aggressive and could often be annoying roadblocks that had to be dealt with when running a lap through an area.