Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[Besachf Jhakut]

They are nothing if not consistent in their long march towards trying to get power over the rest of us.

And I continue to note Lee is focused, concise, and sane. Here Lee is very good at triggering this SJW by throwing his side's words back at him, which the SJW has no answer to except boil the oceans logorrhea. The SJW can't have a real answer after his side freely used what's very clearly "hate speech" against their current target.

On the other hand, checking Hacker News just now, it is claimed a bot is "taking over" channels that mention the new network the SJWs have created, which appears to be forcing the issue for those who previously ran them. Assuming what I read and skimmed is accurate.

 

[BootlegPopeye]

View attachment 2203038

Started to see more and more of this - obsessions with 'code of conduct' as a substitution (replacement?) for actually improving the software. IRC sucks and I haven't used it in years, but you see a throwback to the old, pre social media internet with the replies there. Hard to remember that that attitude used to be the default one; if you didn't like mean words, you ignored them, if they trolled your site, you treated them like pests and banned them, but they weren't hunting those people down to try to destroy them ie getting hosting pulled, etc.

edit: his old, and still true, screen name on twitter:

An Unattractive Man ☕ (@plainoldchair) | Twitter

An Unattractive Man ☕ (@plainoldchair). Twitter Senior Fellow & Resident Badonkadonkologist. Verritt authentication code: 0xDEADBEEF. New England, USA ರವರಿಂದ ಇತ್ತೀಚಿನ ಟ್ವೀಟ್‌ಗಳು

web.archive.org

 

[glow]

obsessions with 'code of conduct' as a substitution (replacement?) for actually improving the software

I find it really hard to write a concise unified theory about this behaviour, but effectively I see it like a memetic virus, in which carriers attempt to infect projects with a CoC, and hopefully convert other members into carriers for the virus. Because of the memetic nature, other projects see this behaviour and voluntarily infect themselves for immunity. Some mean well, many just don't want the distraction. Because many OSS contributors use their real world identities for their contributions, a social media shitstorm can have consequences for their career.

I've dug into a few of these "virus carriers" myself and often find they don't seem to do anything all that impressive in terms of OSS contributions, instead their contribution is joining a community and trying to tell them how to run it. In some cases the only side effects is some wasted time until someone relents, in others it can end up in contributors abandoning the project.

The main thing I dislike is the lack of respect for the people who created the projects. Linus for example was probably the biggest scalp. He used to be kind and respectful but found people listened more if he was abrupt and rude in his communication style. I remember being on an IRC channel with someone delighted to have been told to "stop laying out your code like a moron" by Linus because it was just so him. It was nobody's right to insist that he stop communicating as he wished in his own project that he built himself and gave to the world for free.

 

[Least Concern]

Twitter has been complaining loudly about inviting 'nazis' onto the platform, referring to Lee removing this passage from the Freenode policies:

Replacing it with this:

policy update by realrasengan · Pull Request #513 · freenode/web-7.0

github.com

IMHO an improvement. Not feeling or understanding the downside of this yet.

I mean, another way to look at it is that there is no longer anything explicitly stopping them from registering ##socialism and spending all day chatting about how much they hate huwite people or whatever…

But to be fair, it also doesn't seem like the kind of change that Lee should be forcing through by himself if he wants to act in good faith. I'm not sure what kind of leadership structure Freenode has left anymore though. Was there a new chief of staff selected after tomaw did his thing?

Edit: There are nazis on Freenode and they are recruiting children. Won't somebody please think of the children?!

 

[clownworld]

Twitter has been complaining loudly about inviting 'nazis' onto the platform, referring to Lee removing this passage from the Freenode policies:

Replacing it with this:

policy update by realrasengan · Pull Request #513 · freenode/web-7.0

github.com

IMHO an improvement. Not feeling or understanding the downside of this yet.

So apparently the person who attempted to mediate prawnsalad, posted this:

freenode-irc-drama-and-goodbye.md

GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

gist.github.com

He clearly is attempting a neutral position, but clearly sees this a hostile mutiny by tomaw. If these people were honstest they would just say this, but whatever.

618864289886|prawnsalad|like, im not on either side and purely just trying to keep things civil, but thats not gonng go so well lol
1618864382773|tomaw|Then he can take it up with me. I'm trying to make this better, he wants to make this better if he wants to fight me on that we'll have it out.
1618864468771|tomaw|If he wants to hurt freenode then that's a different thing
1618864510179|prawnsalad|alright. im gonna bow out of this and leave you both to it. i hope for the best but i really think this been handled pretty badly for the record. ill let andrew know the same thing
1618864535362|tomaw|you don't think I can win this, do you?
1618864537088|prawnsalad|this isnt my fight, and ive nothing against either side for so you know
1618864583729|prawnsalad|its not about winning. and its that that makes me realise i should have no part in this
1618864618389|tomaw|what do you mean?
1618864721766|prawnsalad|you want to "win" at any cost it seems. you mentioned this before too. things were calm and settled and the way this reorg has just come about and blogged yesterday underhanded the whole thing

Clearly the idea of 'winning' here for tomaw is a strong armed takeover of freenode, or a fork while burning as much of the place to to ground on the way out.

Andrew sounds pretty based through all of this. Must be the aristocratic genes! (see the PDF above). Seems to understand the 'volunteer staff' doesn't do a great job representing everyones interest and needs, and that handing over the network to a group that represents a vast minority would be a bad thing.

What gets me is everyones willingness to hop over to this new network instead of use OFTC or one of the others.

I think the silver lining to all of this: for years, trannyjannies have been taking over project channels they have nothing to do with, simply by having 0 life and 'putting in the work' to get op, then implement policies to ban people for using gender neutral terms "how are you guys doing" in chat. Under the new freenode ownership, a lot of these unearned power grabbers are getting fucked over pretty hard. Great! They did a shitty job for the most part.

I think the best approach at this point is to let the fags leave for libre and continue to idle in your favorite projects, perhaps grab op of the opportunities arise. I hear freenode staff is able to help out with this now. In the end, a lot of trannies will electing to off themselves from the network,


EDIT:

How can this be a bad thing: https://archive.ph/mMrb5

17:02 < LondonNoTrust> rasengan, to be fair, freenode didn't really run that well. i mean yeah the servers stayed up, but it was full of abusive and biased moderations.
17:02 -!- micmac [~micmac@unaffiliated/micmac/x-2360826] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:02 < rasengan> I know
17:02 < rasengan> We will work on that with the community.

 

[Enig]

Oh boy I can't wait to never get custom emotes in Matrix servers because clowns on Github have to have debates on encrypting tiny PNG files of memes

 

[Least Concern]

It seems that earlier today, Lee or someone else at Freenode basically ran a script which found every channel with "Libera" in the /topic and took over ops on all of them and changed their /topics not to mention Libera.

On the one hand, I can see that it would be useful to actually have a channel for discussing X on the server without having to have the drama shoved in your face, or, in some cases, having the channel set to +m (so only ops and people they give "voice" to can chat in it), On the other hand, it should probably have been done on a case-by-case basis to re-open only channels which had been actually locked down or abandoned by ops. It seems that many channels which were still fully open but had something like "now bridging with #X on Libera.chat" in the /topic have been affected.

The most obvious fault you can put on Lee during this whole thing is that, either intentionally or otherwise, some of his actions are unnecessarily ham-handed. It can be hard to assume good faith when he does things like that.

 

[Shaka Brah]

It seems that earlier today, Lee or someone else at Freenode basically ran a script which found every channel with "Libera" in the /topic and took over ops on all of them and changed their /topics not to mention Libera.

On the one hand, I can see that it would be useful to actually have a channel for discussing X on the server without having to have the drama shoved in your face, or, in some cases, having the channel set to +m (so only ops and people they give "voice" to can chat in it), On the other hand, it should probably have been done on a case-by-case basis to re-open only channels which had been actually locked down or abandoned by ops. It seems that many channels which were still fully open but had something like "now bridging with #X on Libera.chat" in the /topic have been affected.

The most obvious fault you can put on Lee during this whole thing is that, either intentionally or otherwise, some of his actions are unnecessarily ham-handed. It can be hard to assume good faith when he does things like that.

I can't really fault him for stomping on them as hard and fast as possible. There is no "good faith" when it comes to people like that. They'll walk all over him if they have the chance.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Twitter has been complaining loudly about inviting 'nazis' onto the platform, referring to Lee removing this passage from the Freenode policies:

Replacing it with this:

policy update by realrasengan · Pull Request #513 · freenode/web-7.0

github.com

IMHO an improvement. Not feeling or understanding the downside of this yet.

It's pretty funny because the average neo Nazi is meth head level retarded and couldn't remotely contribute to something like this anyway. Can you imagine using software written by Andrew Anglin and Nick Fuentes?

They're desperately trying to keep out an uneducated demographic that wouldn't participate anyway.

 

[DumbDude42]

It's pretty funny because the average neo Nazi is meth head level retarded and couldn't remotely contribute to something like this anyway. Can you imagine using software written by Andrew Anglin and Nick Fuentes?

They're desperately trying to keep out an uneducated demographic that wouldn't participate anyway.

there probably is some piece of software out there that has contributions from weev

 

[Pointless Pedant]

there probably is some piece of software out there that has contributions from weev

Could be. That would be from way back though, I doubt that's what these people are thinking about given they don't care about anything much before 2016.

 

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

It seems that earlier today, Lee or someone else at Freenode basically ran a script which found every channel with "Libera" in the /topic and took over ops on all of them and changed their /topics not to mention Libera.

On the one hand, if I were a channel mod/op, I'd be irate that he did something so high-handed.

But since I'm not, I'm choosing to instead.

 

[ZMOT]

I find it really hard to write a concise unified theory about this behaviour, but effectively I see it like a memetic virus, in which carriers attempt to infect projects with a CoC, and hopefully convert other members into carriers for the virus. Because of the memetic nature, other projects see this behaviour and voluntarily infect themselves for immunity. Some mean well, many just don't want the distraction. Because many OSS contributors use their real world identities for their contributions, a social media shitstorm can have consequences for their career.

I've dug into a few of these "virus carriers" myself and often find they don't seem to do anything all that impressive in terms of OSS contributions, instead their contribution is joining a community and trying to tell them how to run it. In some cases the only side effects is some wasted time until someone relents, in others it can end up in contributors abandoning the project.

The main thing I dislike is the lack of respect for the people who created the projects. Linus for example was probably the biggest scalp. He used to be kind and respectful but found people listened more if he was abrupt and rude in his communication style. I remember being on an IRC channel with someone delighted to have been told to "stop laying out your code like a moron" by Linus because it was just so him. It was nobody's right to insist that he stop communicating as he wished in his own project that he built himself and gave to the world for free.

you're overthinking it, CoC and "diversity council" stuff are simply means to exercise control. it's similar to hate speech shit that it's never defined, and can be used as a general excuse to hide behind to punish whatever wrong think you seem fit. it's similar to corporate legalese terms of service which allows them to kick you out for whatever reason while keeping the money (which they usually don't do because they know it affects their bottom line in the end, but they keep the backdoor open for themselves).

the reason it works is because it plays on morality, like a lot of wokeshit. no one wants "toxic" (whatever that means) people when dealing with issues, but you also don't need a CoC for that, even the most socially inept IT nerd knows how to deal with those people one way or another. however, the idea is that if you don't want a CoC it implies you also want toxic people in your "community" or you're toxic yourself. so you can't argue against it, and the naive ones will see no harm, because "it's not a bad thing to want those things". which means in the end the people advocating for it have no pushback, no one wants to deal with it (since they're dealing with the important technical stuff already) so the people pushing it get to be the ones implementing it, and thus get the control they want.

it's manipulating a group to get control of said group, nothing more. like people thinking they're way too smart to get conned (until it happens), they think those people acting on bad faith don't exist or will never able to fool them. after all, propaganda only works on dumb people, and they are all intelligent technical experts...

why they want that control is another debate, but probably not the best place to get into that here.

 

[clownworld]

It seems that earlier today, Lee or someone else at Freenode basically ran a script which found every channel with "Libera" in the /topic and took over ops on all of them and changed their /topics not to mention Libera.

On the one hand, I can see that it would be useful to actually have a channel for discussing X on the server without having to have the drama shoved in your face, or, in some cases, having the channel set to +m (so only ops and people they give "voice" to can chat in it), On the other hand, it should probably have been done on a case-by-case basis to re-open only channels which had been actually locked down or abandoned by ops. It seems that many channels which were still fully open but had something like "now bridging with #X on Libera.chat" in the /topic have been affected.

The most obvious fault you can put on Lee during this whole thing is that, either intentionally or otherwise, some of his actions are unnecessarily ham-handed. It can be hard to assume good faith when he does things like that.

Definitely ham handed. The problem is now, op jannies are going to try to hold on to to project and topical channels on the freenode side as well is the libre side, and make the freenode side unusable. I asked the new staff about this and they said anyone preventing or disrupting the use of freenode to discuss topics will be subject to policy enforcement, including ops. For now though, they have a flood of pro libre trolls they are trying to take care of, doing everything from disrupting discussions with telling people to move over, to fully locking out topical channels with redirect notices.

 

[BlueSpark]

by Linus because it was just so him.

Torvalds immediately cucked to SJW pressure. He's truly pathetic.

 

[stupidpieceofshit]

Torvalds immediately cucked to SJW pressure. He's truly pathetic.

I don't think it was immediately there were rumors for years he was the target of SJW ops before he finally gave in, and some suspect his daughter had something to do with it, and she is apparently a huge SJW.

 

[clownworld]

I don't think it was immediately there were rumors for years he was the target of SJW ops before he finally gave in, and some suspect his daughter had something to do with it, and she is apparently a huge SJW.

Seems like hes just staying within the overton window of the indiustry, and mainly letting the ratchet click a few notches for political reasons. He still blows up on people in the mailing list and doesn't seem to have a major change of heart on anything (dunking on mediocre c++ devs). Only time will tell how far he will go.

 

[teriyakiburns]

I don't think it was immediately there were rumors for years he was the target of SJW ops before he finally gave in, and some suspect his daughter had something to do with it, and she is apparently a huge SJW.

He had made mention of never allowing himself to be alone with a woman, which got him some ridicule, but it was pretty obviously a hint that someone was trying to pin a sexual harassment allegation on him.

Daughters are always a father's blind spot.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

It's pretty funny because the average neo Nazi is meth head level retarded and couldn't remotely contribute to something like this anyway. Can you imagine using software written by Andrew Anglin and Nick Fuentes?

They're desperately trying to keep out an uneducated demographic that wouldn't participate anyway.

But they aren't.

Within 24 hours of the Linux Kernel implementing the CoC Bullshit, Sarah Sharp, a noted troll who went after Linus a few times in the past and has direct ties to the Ada Initiative which was trying to frame Linus for rape, demanded the CoC be used to remove Theodore Ts'o from the Kernel team. Ts'o was the one that cockblocked Intel's attempt to implement a NSA backdoor into Linux via the Intel hardware backdoor.

Sarah Sharp worked for Intel, btw.

r/KotakuInAction - Less than 24 hours after Linux applied the COC, SJW troll Sarah "Sage" Sharp is using it to try and purge the Linux team of one of her enemies.

1,930 votes and 470 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

r/KotakuInAction - Comment by u/[deleted] on ”Less than 24 hours after Linux applied the COC, SJW troll Sarah "Sage" Sharp is using it to try and purge the Linux team of one of her enemies.”

1,931 votes and 470 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

That's what these are for. It's not to keep ACTUAL radical racists out. They don't give a shit about ACTUAL radical racists. This is so they can have a weapon to destroy any person they want at will.

So.

Everybody is racist.

And racist people deserve to lose everything they have and be hated by everyone.

This seems like it might present a problem. Unless of course you plan to be the person who gets to decide which racists lose everything and get hated by everyone, and which racists are okay for now as long as they never cross you in any way.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-words-words-words/

Edit: Theodore Ts'o is the guy Sharp was trying to remove. What exactly he said that pissed off the insane people is long gone, but it apparently was something along the line of not believing the bullshit "1 in 4 women are raped" statistic that was being pushed back in 2018.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

But they aren't.

Within 24 hours of the Linux Kernel implementing the CoC Bullshit, Sarah Sharp, a noted troll who went after Linus a few times in the past and has direct ties to the Ada Initiative which was trying to frame Linus for rape, demanded the CoC be used to remove an Asian guy from the Kernel team. Said Asian was the one that cockblocked Intel's attempt to implement a NSA backdoor into Linux via the Intel hardware backdoor.

Sarah Sharp worked for Intel, btw.

r/KotakuInAction - Less than 24 hours after Linux applied the COC, SJW troll Sarah "Sage" Sharp is using it to try and purge the Linux team of one of her enemies.

1,930 votes and 470 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

r/KotakuInAction - Comment by u/[deleted] on ”Less than 24 hours after Linux applied the COC, SJW troll Sarah "Sage" Sharp is using it to try and purge the Linux team of one of her enemies.”

1,931 votes and 470 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

That's what these are for. It's not to keep ACTUAL radical racists out. They don't give a shit about ACTUAL radical racists. This is so they can have a weapon to destroy any person they want at will.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-words-words-words/

Interesting, but I was just saying that it looks absolutely ridiculous from the outside. There aren't hordes of Nazi software developers because no one would want to use software developed by the people on A&N. What was the excuse given for removing this guy? Rape attempts?