Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

[Pointless Pedant]

They'd probably twist it into a narrative about "Extremism bad" and how we are living in the "good" timeline

Any timeline that has wars worse than WW2 with nuclear bombs being thrown around everywhere is definitely a lot worse than ours. It's just an odd way for a cold war game to go.

 

[EpicGamerMoment]

Honestly it's kind of funny that they assume Germany won't just use nukes to end the 2nd WRW. Between losing all of their WWII gains in the East and nuking a few Russian cities what do you think the Nazis would pick ?

 

[Radola Gajda]

Honestly it's kind of funny that they assume Germany won't just use nukes to end the 2nd WRW. Between losing all of their WWII gains in the East and nuking a few Russian cities what do you think the Nazis would pick ?

Especially if they have backing of USA because muh USA literaly Nazi Germany

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Especially if they have backing of USA because muh USA literaly Nazi Germany

It really makes no sense at all. The USA would probably support the much weaker USSR against Germany as a balance of power thing, like how the USA aligned with China towards the end of the cold war. A better story would just have them give nuclear weapons to the USSR so they could deter Germany and not have a hot war break out...because, you know, cold war game.

 

[winderson_silva]

Germany losing 2WRW itself seens a bit strange, people justify with "but muh civil war/stagnation" despite Russia being way worse on that, or must i believe that russia will isntantly recover from 20+ years of constant civil wars and that all political problems will desapear the moment an army conquer land x?
Unless germany destroy itself in Heydrich's path, Russia would be in a serious disvantage in everything and even a nuclear exchange will be more favorable to the germans, since the russians have way less bombs and transport for them.
Granted, in the game if Burgundy and Germany nuke eachother somehow USA and Japan decides "let's kill everyone them"

 

[Grave Ghost]

It would be interesting, but if they insist on having gigantic wars then the cold war theme is lost. I recall comments about the great Asian war being worse than WW2, which would obviously involve massive scale nuclear use and breaks the cold war theme.

I think the devs described it as more like a rebellion against the Japanese than a proper war and that the death toll could easily be higher than WW2. And yeah they really need more proxy wars and ideological subversion that Germany's intelligence agency and the CIA can do, like funding liberal groups in the Reich or arming rebellious populations in the RKs or the Reich funding and supporting the Klan and Yockey in the USA, but no we gotta have economic autism instead.

 

[EpicGamerMoment]

I think the devs described it as more like a rebellion against the Japanese than a proper war and that the death toll could easily be higher than WW2. And yeah they really need more proxy wars and ideological subversion that Germany's intelligence agency and the CIA can do, like funding liberal groups in the Reich or arming rebellious populations in the RKs or the Reich funding and supporting the Klan and Yockey in the USA, but no we gotta have economic autism instead.

They have a somewhat decent intelligence mechanic for both America and the Reich. I think it will be expanded in TT I am cautiously optimistic

 

[Karakhalkin-Gol]

Did our feuding with TNO and all the drama help delay the updates, or would the delays still have happened with or without our interference?

 

[Grave Ghost]

Did our feuding with TNO and all the drama help delay the updates, or would the delays still have happened with or without our interference?

Yeah things got delayed heavily, there was easily a month and a half where they couldn't do anything due to new drama popping up everyday and the mass purge of devs.

 

[AlexGroans]

A little bit of an update on Red Flood: a devblog (Here:Archive) was released that stated they were reworking France (The star of their mod) and outright canning its hilariously self-destructive anprim path along with some other hilariously edgy stuff, which is major. The most upvoted comment on that post mourning the loss of this, as this was a big pull, along with others fearing the "edgy shitpost" part of the mod is being snuffed out. This too, however, will be gutted from it in time.
Predictably, the dev team started seething and copy-pasting their criticisms in their general chat as a deflection. They wish to be taken seriously, but as much as they want this to happen, they must remember that they are making a mod for a map painter, rather than a book or academic database to learn about the people they are starring in their work.

Some other discourse from the devs, with one rando alleging that this place is behind their "harassment".

In short: HoI4 modders will be HoI4 modders, and it's no wonder that Paradox is trying to snub them as much as possible lmao

 

[Pointless Pedant]

I think the devs described it as more like a rebellion against the Japanese than a proper war and that the death toll could easily be higher than WW2. And yeah they really need more proxy wars and ideological subversion that Germany's intelligence agency and the CIA can do, like funding liberal groups in the Reich or arming rebellious populations in the RKs or the Reich funding and supporting the Klan and Yockey in the USA, but no we gotta have economic autism instead.

The problem is that if it's supposed to be a cold war proxy conflict those weren't even close to WW2 in scale. Korea and Vietnam didn't even have 1/10 of that death toll and the armies involved were much smaller. A war on the scale the devs want would be nuclear WW3 and way out of scope for a cold war game. It's like they can't decide whether they want to be Twilight Struggle or DEFCON.

I take the same stance on any modern day grand strategy mods. Major powers should not be invading each other unless it's a nuclear war simulation and they all get massacred (like DEFCON), which isn't a cold war/diplomacy game anymore. The biggest wars should be like the invasion of Iraq.

 

[Adolphin]

The problem is that if it's supposed to be a cold war proxy conflict those weren't even close to WW2 in scale. Korea and Vietnam didn't even have 1/10 of that death toll and the armies involved were much smaller. A war on the scale the devs want would be nuclear WW3 and way out of scope for a cold war game. It's like they can't decide whether they want to be Twilight Struggle or DEFCON.

I take the same stance on any modern day grand strategy mods. Major powers should not be invading each other unless it's a nuclear war simulation and they all get massacred (like DEFCON), which isn't a cold war/diplomacy game anymore. The biggest wars should be like the invasion of Iraq.

The "Great Trial" is suposed to be a gigantic nuclear holocaust. However, the mod fails to justify the lack of nuclear weapon usage during the German Civil War. In regards to the Japanese, I can not think of any reason for the Japanese to not employ ridiculous weapons against China. Chemical and biological agents can be highly effective against a unprepared opponent. In the worst case they could outright throw nuclear weapons at the Chinese. In contrast to the Americans in Vietnam, the Japenese would not have any kind of boundaries. They viewed the Chinese as a form of pest anyway...

 

[Pointless Pedant]

The "Great Trial" is suposed to be a gigantic nuclear holocaust. However, the mod fails to justify the lack of nuclear weapon usage during the German Civil War. In regards to the Japanese, I can not think of any reason for the Japanese to not employ ridiculous weapons against China. Chemical and biological agents can be highly effective against a unprepared opponent. In the worst case they could outright throw nuclear weapons at the Chinese. In contrast to the Americans in Vietnam, the Japenese would not have any kind of boundaries. They viewed the Chinese as a form of pest anyway...

Nuclear weapons were seriously considered in Vietnam but since the USSR was sending serious military aid (up to and including staffing SAM bases) then if they had been used Soviet troops would have been killed and WW3 would probably have broken out. This was a few years after the Cuban missile crisis and no one wanted to risk that again. Fear of escalation was the only reason they weren't used historically, and if the great Asian war kills more than WW2 then escalation isn't really a concern anymore.

Nuclear weapons do get used in the German Civil War if it goes on long enough. The problem is more that what should be a messy asymmetrical war is a bunch of conventional front lines instead, which isn't really how civil wars work.

 

[NashSuvorov]

The "Great Trial" is suposed to be a gigantic nuclear holocaust. However, the mod fails to justify the lack of nuclear weapon usage during the German Civil War. In regards to the Japanese, I can not think of any reason for the Japanese to not employ ridiculous weapons against China. Chemical and biological agents can be highly effective against a unprepared opponent. In the worst case they could outright throw nuclear weapons at the Chinese. In contrast to the Americans in Vietnam, the Japenese would not have any kind of boundaries. They viewed the Chinese as a form of pest anyway...

China is the agricultural powerhouse of the Sphere and remains so even after industrializing, nuking it would starve Japan imo.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

China is the agricultural powerhouse of the Sphere and remains so even after industrializing, nuking it would starve Japan imo.

A war deadlier than WW2 would starve Japan anyway. It's not like they'd be exporting food to the Japanese mainland while rebelling. The problem is conflicts of that scale breaking out in the age of weapons of mass destruction.

 

[EpicGamerMoment]

A little bit of an update on Red Flood: a devblog (Here:Archive) was releasing saying they are reworking France (The star of their mod) and outright canning its hilariously self-destructive anprim path along with some other hilariously edgy stuff, which is major. The most upvoted comment on that post mourning the loss of this, as this was a big pull, along with it being a massive edgy shitpost. This too, will be gutted from it in time.
Predictably, the dev team started seething and copy-pasting their criticisms in their general chat as a deflection. They wish to be taken seriously, but as much as they want this to happen, they must remember that they are making a mod for a map painter, rather than a book or academic database to learn about the people they are starring in their work.
View attachment 2215072
Some other discourse from the devs, with one rando alleging that this place is behind their "harassment".View attachment 2215097
In short: HoI4 modders will be HoI4 modders, and it's no wonder that Paradox is trying to snub them as much as possible lmao

God the ego

 

[Kilgour1928]

The real question will be if there's a vicky3 tno spin off. The team said they have no plans to do it, but I'm not counting out the unbridled autism spirit of the HOI4 community. Anyway here's some screencaps I saw of them talking about some old content that was cut from the mod awhile back. Makes me chuckle looking at things like Veitnamese Catholics and Falangist Poland
View attachment 2199943View attachment 2199944View attachment 2199946

Did these idiots try to rip off Qanon or something? Mountbatten as Dirlewanger and then what about the fact that Subhas Chandra Bose of Free India was not some Islamphobic Nazi as the mod portrays.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Did these idiots try to rip off Qanon or something? Mountbatten as Dirlewanger and then what about the fact that Subhas Chandra Bose of Free India was not some Islamphobic Nazi as the mod portrays.

The cannibal Mountbatten shit is retarded (though he was allegedly a paedo), but Bose was genuinely a fascist and was deeply unpopular, only managing to muster about 50,000 men. His ideology was a sort of "nazbol" third positionism. The implausible part there is that he rules a massive chunk of India when almost no one actually liked him, least of all the INC who dominated Indian politics in the 1940s-1970s.

Bose first expressed his preference for "a synthesis of what modern Europe calls socialism and fascism" in a 1930 speech in Calcutta.[125] Bose later criticized Nehru's 1933 statement that there is "no middle road" between communism and fascism, describing it as "fundamentally wrong." Bose believed communism would not gain ground in India due to its rejection of nationalism and religion and suggested a "synthesis between communism and fascism" could take hold instead.[126] In 1944, Bose similarly stated, "Our philosophy should be a synthesis between National Socialism and communism."[127]

 

[Adolphin]

China is the agricultural powerhouse of the Sphere and remains so even after industrializing, nuking it would starve Japan imo.

Nuclear weapons could be used to obliterate rebellious urban settlements and destroy supply areas. If highly efficient thermonuclear devices were employed fallout would be within "acceptable" limits. Although the tactical utilisation of chemical weapons against enemy formations would be more usefull. The destructive potential of nuclear weapons has been overstated many times.

 

[EpicGamerMoment]

The problem is more that what should be a messy asymmetrical war is a bunch of conventional front lines instead, which isn't really how civil wars work.

The devs have stated the GCW is more like a coup with guerilla warfare than an actual civil war. The KR devs too wish they could make the 2ACW a messy confusing bloodbath but you can only do so much with Soy4.

So Hoi4 modders do know how modern day civil wars are fought they’re just limited by the game