Megathread TERFs / Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists / Gender Critical Feminists - ft. r/GenderCritical & related reddits, Mancheeze, Cathy Brennan, GCDad, RadFHarva, Jamie Shupe, etc; "Gender Critical Feminism is Homophobic" - Cathy Brennan, 2019.

[Ugandan discussions]

Oh god, you really are this dumb... Explains alot. Progressive, intersectional feminism is really just an extension of liberal feminism. Which is obviously distinct from radical feminism.

And I've only ever been talking about radical feminism, as I've been clear all along.

Literally says neither of those. Also most proponents of separatism are advocating about women's place in society. Namely that even the basic male/female relationship upholds patriarchy. And that women will never truly be free until they abandon men all together.

Definition of RADICAL

of, relating to, or proceeding from a root: such as; of or growing from the root of a plant; growing from the base of a stem, from a rootlike stem, or from a stem that does not rise above the ground… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

2: of or relating to the origin : FUNDAMENTAL
3a: very different from the usual or traditional : EXTREME
b: favoring extreme changes in existing views, habits, conditions, or institutions
c: associated with political views, practices, and policies of extreme change
d: advocating extreme measures to retain or restore a political state of affairs //the radical right

This idea that it is about separatism is horseshit. Radfems aren't immune to normal human sexuality, nor are they so stupid as not to realise that the survival of the species relies on procreation between two sexes.

Lol, I literally have been making the distinction. Liberal feminism is geared more toward the individual woman. Hence the term liberal.

More horseshit. Liberal feminism has fuck all to do with the individual - you're taking an American right-wing understanding of the term liberal and applying it to a mainstream international perspective. Liberal feminism is focused on achieving equality within liberal democratic structures, as opposed to the other two main traditions focused on analysing and breaking down existing social structures.

Which is opposed to radical feminism that is more concerned about women as a biological class. As opposed to socialist/marxist feminism which views women as an economic class.

OK, so you're at leat capable of reading the first paragraph of a Wikipedia page. It's a small step, but kudos for that!

Lol, you are an idiot. I've pointed out several times feminism is more then just man hate. The man hate just happens to be a big part of it.

And this is where we fundamentally differ. I don't believe feminism (of any of the three main traditions) to be primarily, or even peripherally, motivated by hatred of men, although I don't dispute the existence of individuals who are so driven.

 

[AnOminous]

I'm not a feminist at all (one too many y-chromosomes). Still, feel free to call me a cuck instead of addressing the substance of what I've been saying!

Well, since you asked. Cuuuuuuuck!

 

[LurkNoMore]

And I've only ever been talking about radical feminism, as I've been clear all along.

No, you started out bitching about troons and how the troon menace could not possibly have anything to do with feminism. Well it does.

Definition of RADICAL

of, relating to, or proceeding from a root: such as; of or growing from the root of a plant; growing from the base of a stem, from a rootlike stem, or from a stem that does not rise above the ground… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

This idea that it is about separatism is horseshit. Radfems aren't immune to normal human sexuality, nor are they so stupid as not to realise that the survival of the species relies on procreation between two sexes.

It it is about separatism. Also lol, look up the term heteronormativety. There have several feminists who have stated that homosexuality is the default in women. And its patriarchal social norms that force women to be heterosexual. As to the dying out of the spieces. That would be part of the bargaining chip women would use to restructure society to be more equal.

More horseshit. Liberal feminism has fuck all to do with the individual - you're taking an American right-wing understanding of the term liberal and applying it to a mainstream international perspective. Liberal feminism is focused on achieving equality within liberal democratic structures, as opposed to the other two main traditions focused on analysing and breaking down existing social structures.

Scroll down to the Philosophy section and read the first paragraph. Here let me highlight the important part. "liberal feminism has a more individualistic approach to justice than left-wing branches of feminism such as socialist or radical feminism."

OK, so you're at leat capable of reading the first paragraph of a Wikipedia page. It's a small step, but kudos for that!

And you aren't capable of even that.

And this is where we fundamentally differ. I don't believe feminism (of any of the three main traditions) to be primarily, or even peripherally, motivated by hatred of men, although I don't dispute the existence of individuals who are so driven.

I never said any were motivated by hatred of men. When the feminist says she wants to liberate women. What ever that means. I believe her. And when she says she hates all men. I also believe her.

 

[axfaxf]

Holy shit, hoes mad! .

 

[Wuornos]

Men are asking for their new born sons to be cut? Really. I've never heard of the doctor or nurse asking the father. Only the mother.


Women literally just voted in a warmonger into the presidency of the most powerful nation on the earth. They tried to do the same during the last election as well.


Lol, are you stupid or what? There are thousands of examples of women posting about their boyfriends or husbands talking to them. Opening up and they laugh at them. Seriously.


Men are the primary victims. That isn't to say children and women are effected.


What MRA is against such a right?


US family courts favor the mothers to an absurd degree. Even when the better financial caregiver is the man.


Lol, irony. Conflating MRAs and MGTOWs.

1. Circumcision is a MALE ordained practice. Scapegoating Mothers for male circ is retarded and Fathers do have a say. Not all Mothers are Jewish. There are many women who married Jewish men who had to convert to Judaism.

2. Men voted him in too. Not all women voted for him either.

3. Very few women, historically, have started wars. Women and children are killed in wars too. Bombs and bullets do not kill based on biological sex. Women and children have also been killed in concentration camps or through attrocities committed by a hostile occupying force etc. This is not something that is exclusively experienced by men.

Misogynists blaming women for war or claiming only men die in war is retarded.

4. Ejaculation is not the equivalent of pregnancy, life-risking agonizing childbirth, 24/7 breastfeeding and childcare on top of the vaginal stitches, mastitis and postnatal depression. Virtually every species on this planet is raised by the Mother. There is no excuse to snatch a child from their Mother unless she is negligent, incapacitated or deceased.

The fact you think child custody should be based on financial reasons alone is retarded. So if a man divorces his wife, who stayed at home to raise her children, that means he should default get her children because he has more money than her?

Then there's the disgusting preferential treatment Fathers inexplicably get over Mothers:

. Fathers are not vilified for being too young (20s) or too old (30+) like Mothers.
. For working ("bread winners") or for staying at home ("new men" or "great Dads") like Mothers ("Lazy/selfish careerist/child neglectors").
. Or for being single/unmarried/divorced like Mothers,
. Or for having one child or for having more than one child like Mothers are vilified.
. Fathers are named first on every correspondence and legal document (even on the BIRTH certificate) where as the Mother is named second or not even mentioned at all.
. Fathers don't get the blame for a child's poor behaviour. Only Mothers get the blame even when that child is an adult responsible for their own actions.
. Fathers are not attacked or criticised for taking their kids on public transport like Mothers.
. Virtually every TV show, film and commercial features Fathers prominently while the Mother is pushed into the background or not featured at all.
. Fathers also get more lenient sentences in child neglect cases than Mothers do. Even when it was clearly an accident, the Mother will get the harsher sentence.
. There's also hate groups against Mothers. There are none against Fathers.

The cult of victimhood amongst ungrateful, selfish, narcissistic Fathers is utterly repugnant and if misogynists continue their cowardly war on Mothers, as they have done for the past 40 years, women will either stop becoming Mothers OR they won't have children with White men because it seems to be predominantly White misogynists involved with the devaluing, vilifying and hate campaigning against Mothers.

5. They're both misogynists..

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

Troons and Terfs deserve each other

 

[Ugandan discussions]

No, you started out bitching about troons and how the troon menace could not possibly have anything to do with feminism. Well it does.

No, I said the Troon menace has fuck all to do with 'radical feminism'. Fucking huuuuuuge difference.

I'm perfectly happy to acknowledge liberal feminism's role in creating troonery as we see it today.

It it is about separatism. Also lol, look up the term heteronormativety. There have several feminists who have stated that homosexuality is the default in women. And its patriarchal social norms that force women to be heterosexual. As to the dying out of the spieces. That would be part of the bargaining chip women would use to restructure society to be more equal.

Yawn. Somewhat cherry-picking there - it's a bit of a leap from 'several [unsourced] feminists have said' to 'this is the settled view of one of the three.major traditions within feminism'.

Scroll down to the Philosophy section and read the first paragraph. Here let me highlight the important part. "liberal feminism has a more individualistic approach to justice than left-wing branches of feminism such as socialist or radical feminism."

Uh...

 

[LurkNoMore]

1. Circumcision is a MALE ordained practice. Scapegoating Mothers for male circ is retarded and Fathers do have a say. Not all Mothers are Jewish. There are many women who married Jewish men who had to convert to Judaism.

Lol, "iTs MaLe OrDaInEd" means nothing. Thats like saying murder is male ordained because the bible says the first man was a murderer. Its wrong no matter who does it. Also most circs aren't done to Jewish boys in the us. Most are asked for by Christian mothers.

2. Men voted him in too. Not all women voted for him either.

But more women voted for him then against. And more men against then for him. Link

3. Very few women, historically, have started wars. Women and children are killed in wars too. Bombs and bullets do not kill based on biological sex. Women and children have also been killed in concentration camps or through attrocities committed by a hostile occupying force etc. This not something that is only experienced by men.

Literally none of this proves men aren't the primary victims of war. Also have of those children are males. Some on the cusp of manhood.

Misogynists blaming women for war or claiming only men die in war is retarded.

Obviously. Now if only you could point out some idiot who said only men are killed.

4. Ejaculation is not the equivalent of pregnancy, life-risking agonizing childbirth, 24/7 breastfeeding and childcare on top of the vaginal stitches, mastitis and postnatal depression. Virtually every species on this planet is raised by the Mother. There is no excuse to snatch a child from their Mother unless she is negligent, incapacitated or deceased.

Or she can provide the best home or education or protection. So on and so on. Men provide practically everything that women uses in nearly 99% of cases.

The fact you think child custody should be based on financial reasons alone is retarded.

I seem to have missed where I stated financial should be the only reason. Of course a older child doesn't need their mother as much as a younger.

So if a man divorces his wife, who stayed at home to raise her children, that means he should default get her children because he has more money than her?

Hardly any mothers in the US are stay at home types anymore. And hardly any of those end up divorce by the husband. More like she divorced him. If the child is younger then they should stay with the mother. The older they get it depends.

Then there's the disgusting preferential treatment Fathers inexplicably get over Mothers. Fathers are not vilified for being too young (20s) or too old (30+) like Mothers,

Literally who bitchs about mothers in their twenties? Please tell. Probably some good cow material.

for working ("bread winners")

Men are expected to work. To pull their weight. "What good is a man who doesn't bring home the bacon." You just got done ranting that women deserve to keep the children in a divorce cause woman. Now your made they are expect to fill that role? Lol.

or for staying at home ("new men" or "great Dads") like Mothers ("Lazy/selfish careerist/child neglectors"),

Women pushed for the stay at home dad. Women get made when men put their effort into providing. Women are still complaining about men not pulling their wieght around the house. Take the stupid fawning over stay at home dads to your fellow women. Their the ones doing the ass kissing.

or for being single/unmarried/divorced, or for having one child or for having more than one child like Mothers are vilified.

Lol, you don't get out much do you? Men who divorce their wives get labeled all sorts of things. Unmarried/single men get harrassed about it or simply called losers or incels or man whores. Especially by women.

Fathers are named first on every correspondence and legal document (even on the BIRTH certificate) where as the Mother is named second or not even mentioned at all.

State wants its money. Its not stupid. It knows who makes the money. Also lol. Moms name second on the birth certificate. As if theres any doubt whose baby it is.

Fathers don't get the blame for a child's poor behaviour.

Do you live in a cave? Seriously. Men get blamed by women for "bad" boy behavior all the time. I've hardly met any women who was ok with roughhousing. And was quick to blame men for not "raising their sons to be compassionate".

Only Mothers get the blame even when that child is an adult.

You live in a cave. Touch grass.

Fathers are not attacked or criticised for taking their kids on public transport like Mothers.

God have mercy. Touch grass!

Virtually every TV show, film and commercial features Fathers prominently

Are you seriously made liberal social engineering thinks men need to take part in their kids lives more? Seriously?

while the Mother is pushed into the background or not featured at all.

Liberals social engineering is a bitch.

Fathers also get lenient sentences in child neglect cases. Even when it was clearly an accident, the Mother will get the harsher sentence.

Lol, seriously you can prove this?

There's also hate groups against Mothers. There are none against Fathers.

Lol, ok, i have to see this hate group(s). Link please!

The cult of victimhood amongst ungrateful, selfish, narcissistic Fathers is utterly repugnant and if misogynists continue their cowardly war on Mothers, as they have done for the past 40 years, women will either stop becoming Mothers OR they won't have children with White men because it seems to be predominantly White misogynists involved.

Lol, women not having kids has nothing to do with a "war on mothers." The better educationed a women the less child she will have. A movement to put women back in the kitchen would increase birth rates, not lower.

5. They're both misogynists..

By the sounds of it, any man who criticizes women is a misogynist by your standards. Which makes misogynist a badge of honor.

 

[AnOminous]

Most are asked for by Christian mothers.

At the risk of walking into another retarded circumcision discussion, oh wait, not a risk, I just did it, this isn't true. They're generally pimped by the actual doctors, because this circumcision racket is just profitable. It's an unnecessary and usually complication-free surgery they can throw on to any childbirth and make more money for something that costs them nothing to do.

It has nothing to do with Jews, it was a weird practice espoused by Christian cultist lunatic and eugenicist John Harvey Kellogg, who had a bizarre obsession with masturbating children and who mutilated his own penis while an adult, presumably to stop his own incessant masturbation.

He somehow sold this concept to the wider world, and when hospitals find a nice money making racket, they are loath to abandon it.

It's technically correct, therefore, to say at least this particular practice is male-driven, though. I seriously doubt any woman who has just spent hours giving birth and is likely on massive amounts of drugs has the first thought of wow, I'd better mutilate my son's genitals right now.

It's more like they just put the consent form in front of her and grab her hand to make her sign it.

 

[Lord Xenu]

Radfemmery is not about hatred of men, separatism, female superiority or any of the other things most contributors to the thread seem to be worried or angry about.

It is about whatever people who self-identify as RF's say it is about.

For the most part, the impression I am getting (from what they themselves write in their exclusive fora), is that it's mostly about Incel shit without the label or widespread scrutiny of inceldom.

Lol, "iTs MaLe OrDaInEd" means nothing. Thats like saying murder is male ordained because the bible says the first man was a murderer. Its wrong no matter who does it. Also most circs aren't done to Jewish boys in the us. Most are asked for by Christian mothers.


But more women voted for him then against. And more men against then for him. Link


Literally none of this proves men aren't the primary victims of war. Also have of those children are males. Some on the cusp of manhood.


Obviously. Now if only you could point out some idiot who said only men are killed.


Or she can provide the best home or education or protection. So on and so on. Men provide practically everything that women uses in nearly 99% of cases.


I seem to have missed where I stated financial should be the only reason. Of course a older child doesn't need their mother as much as a younger.


Hardly any mothers in the US are stay at home types anymore. And hardly any of those end up divorce by the husband. More like she divorced him. If the child is younger then they should stay with the mother. The older they get it depends.


Literally who bitchs about mothers in their twenties? Please tell. Probably some good cow material.


Men are expected to work. To pull their weight. "What good is a man who doesn't bring home the bacon." You just got done ranting that women deserve to keep the children in a divorce cause woman. Now your made they are expect to fill that role? Lol.


Women pushed for the stay at home dad. Women get made when men put their effort into providing. Women are still complaining about men not pulling their wieght around the house. Take the stupid fawning over stay at home dads to your fellow women. Their the ones doing the ass kissing.


Lol, you don't get out much do you? Men who divorce their wives get labeled all sorts of things. Unmarried/single men get harrassed about it or simply called losers or incels or man whores. Especially by women.


State wants its money. Its not stupid. It knows who makes the money. Also lol. Moms name second on the birth certificate. As if theres any doubt whose baby it is.


Do you live in a cave? Seriously. Men get blamed by women for "bad" boy behavior all the time. I've hardly met any women who was ok with roughhousing. And was quick to blame men for not "raising their sons to be compassionate".


You live in a cave. Touch grass.


God have mercy. Touch grass!


Are you seriously made liberal social engineering thinks men need to take part in their kids lives more? Seriously?


Liberals social engineering is a bitch.


Lol, seriously you can prove this?


Lol, ok, i have to see this hate group(s). Link please!


Lol, women not having kids has nothing to do with a "war on mothers." The better educationed a women the less child she will have. A movement to put women back in the kitchen would increase birth rates, not lower.


By the sounds of it, any man who criticizes women is a misogynist by your standards. Which makes misogynist a badge of honor.

Bro, I'm gonna have to start feeding ya puzzle pieces. These people are retarded, there's no reasoning with them. Any arguments you find, they will deflect and for now the whole of the internet (and a significant chunk of many countries legislation) agree with them.

Just laugh at them, they are in decline.

 

[LurkNoMore]

No, I said the Troon menace has fuck all to do with 'radical feminism'. Fucking huuuuuuge difference.

Lol, calm down sweetie.

I'm perfectly happy to acknowledge liberal feminism's role in creating troonery as we see it today.

Cool.

Yawn. Somewhat cherry-picking there - it's a bit of a leap from 'several [unsourced] feminists have said' to 'this is the settled view of one of the three.major traditions within feminism'.

Says the individual who didn't know separatism was part of radical feminism. Here let me help you again.

"Radical lesbians criticized the women's liberation movement for its failure to criticize the "psychological oppression" of heteronormativity, which they believed to be "the sexual foundation of the social institutions".[76] They argued that heterosexual love relationships perpetuated patriarchal power relations through "personal domination" and therefore directly contradicted the values and goals of the movement.[77] As one radical lesbian wrote, "no matter what the feminist does, the physical act [of heterosexuality] throws both women and man back into role playing... all of her politics are instantly shattered".[77] They argued that the women's liberation movement would not be successful without challenging heteronormativity.[76][78]"
- wikipedia, radical feminism, Radical lesbian feminism

Uh...
View attachment 2233717

Probably should have read a little further.

"Individualist or libertarian feminism is sometimes grouped as one of many branches of liberal feminism, but tends to diverge significantly from mainstream liberal feminism in the 21st Century." - wikipedia Individualist Feminism

 

[Ugandan discussions]

More sperg

I think its fair to say we're coming at it from a different perspective, and neither is going to win since we can't agree on the key premises. You're looking at it from a largely US, right-wing perspective whereas I'm coming from a UK soft-left (or 'Commie' in American parlance) viewpoint.

I'm glad we've largely managed to agree on my original point though, which was that radical feminism isn't responsible for troonery.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

 

[ash9990]

Troons and Terfs deserve each other

Unironically they could help each other. The terf being anti-porn and the Troon needing some porn deprogramming.

 

[negativlad]

Radical Feminists didn't cause the Troon Wave. Libfems' radical acceptance, Doctor and Pharma's desire to get paid, and Pedophiles' incorrigible tendency to find themselves behind every cultural zeitgeist caused the Troon Wave. TERFs are just a natural, pitiful reaction to it, and I'd love to see more of their Lesbos Über Alles femcel misandry and anti-troon raging in some other context than from inside the thread

 

[fine tooth comb]

Radical Feminists didn't cause the Troon Wave. Libfems' radical acceptance, Doctor and Pharma's desire to get paid, and Pedophiles' incorrigible tendency to find themselves behind every cultural zeitgeist caused the Troon Wave. TERFs are just a natural, pitiful reaction to it, and I'd love to see more of their Lesbos Über Alles femcel misandry and anti-troon raging in some other context than from inside the thread

many radical feminists were former liberal feminists

 

[negativlad]

many radical feminists were former liberal feminists

I was literally just talking to some radfems and their peak gender moments that turned them from uncritical libfems into radfems. One of the more thoughtful ones pointed out the Marsha P Johnson dick-sucking after the Stonewall documentary as the tipping point (which I can understand, since that kicked off a lot of the Black Transwomen Created Gay Rights dogshit), but many attributed their pinkpilling(?) to shit like Steven Universe, so yeah you seem to be right, but also: lmfao.

 

[A Welsh Cake]

I’m gonna fuck everyone in this thread. I’ll wear a condom of course, for everyone’s safety.

 

[Nykysnottrans]

Back to the actual topic of this thread, Feminist Current was hacked and Meghan Murphy was doxxed by TRAs:

As most of you know, we were hacked, and our founder was doxxed. We are working on getting this all sorted out and the site back online. In the meantime, please report @feministcurrent
in order for us to get our handle back. Thanks everyone for your support.

https://twitter.com/FemlnistCurrent/status/1400138564994625537

Some TRA has now hijacked the @FeministCurrent account and they've still not given it back:

https://twitter.com/FeministCurrent

 

[Windows XP Home Edition]

I don't think any bona fide radfems do that, and symptomatic of a wider issue in this thread that very few of you fucker actually understand what radical feminism actually is. Wasting time and energy hating men is as irrelevant as centring men in feminism

Radfemmery is not about hatred of men, separatism, female superiority or any of the other things most contributors to the thread seem to be worried or angry about. Its about the liberation of all women who it sees as as oppressed by the structural patriarchy of society. Focus on men, except as the oppressor within a patriarchy, is the complete antithesis of radical feminism; the whole point is that it should be men who put energy into caring about whether we kill ourselves (and let's be honest, which man on here ever gives a shit about high male suicide rates except when attacking women for not prioritising us?).

I don't expect everyone or even many to agree with me, but if you all you're going to do is set up badly constructed straw men to then knock down cheaply, you're never going to look like anything more than a bitter, childish incel.

I never said all radfems, they're not a monolith. Of course there are a few nutters who misconstrue it on both sides. (i.e. Dworkin never said all hetero sex is rape and didn't hate men, just believed they could do better).


Radfem = Root feminism and sex based oppression is the root of sexism. It's why there's FGM and sex selective abortions in poorer countries. I've said multiple times I agree with them on certain issues like pornography and prostitution and I like individuals and organizational like Meghan Murphy and Wolf.

I've posted this on other threads but radfems aren't responsible for the trans activism of today. Sheila Jeffrey and Jenice Raymond have been very critical of transsexualism since the 70s (read Transsexual Empire). Don't twist my words please.

 

[LurkNoMore]

I think its fair to say we're coming at it from a different perspective, and neither is going to win since we can't agree on the key premises. You're looking at it from a largely US, right-wing perspective whereas I'm coming from a UK soft-left (or 'Commie' in American parlance) viewpoint.

No we aren't. You simply refuse to read what is being pointed out to you.

I'm glad we've largely managed to agree on my original point though, which was that radical feminism isn't responsible for troonery.

It literally is. Any movement that causes "gender critical" nonsense has had a part to play.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

You too!