The Final Fantasy Thread

[Alexander Thaut]

i played through 12: zodiac age a decade after trying and abandoning the original ps2 release; it was tolerable but frustrating.

- vaan beats out tidus as the least likeable MC
- ashe/bashe sucked
- penelo why?
- balthier/fran had a fun dynamic but the motivation was weak and stupid
- i don't remember any other character at all including any of the antagonists despite playing it less than a year ago

it really did play like a boring mobile game; the hunts were not much varied or interesting and the progression system felt like 2 or 3 steps back from the previous games. licenses were dumb and the guild system was pretty worthless.

Who put this in as the lead in final fantasy?

View attachment 2297879

iirc the development cycle was hella weird

Final Fantasy XII Retrospective Review

A retrospective review of the twelfth game in the Final Fantasy series, detailing the development history of the game along with my personal thoughts on this...

www.youtube.com

here's a decent vid that touches on it.

 

[Berrakh]

I won't even defend the main party of 12. Really miscalculated.
I just think the story of a princess, the only one left to take up the fight, having to find the power to oust imperial occupation was a good one.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

What even is a sandlewood chop? Wouldn't it make more sense if the Seeq or Viera traded in these? How did I climb to the very top of Archadian society in half an hour?

I assume it was supposed to show you how socially stratified the empire's society was, but you climb to the top by...helping a bunch of people with their petty bullshit problems? Can nobody from Old Town run around for a few days until they have all the chops in existence? That segment made no sense.

 

[John Titor]

I always assumed the chops were some kind of badge you can flash to let people know you were some hotshot and I'm probably wrong.

 

[AlexJonesGotMePregnant]

iirc the development cycle was hella weird

Final Fantasy XII Retrospective Review

A retrospective review of the twelfth game in the Final Fantasy series, detailing the development history of the game along with my personal thoughts on this...

www.youtube.com

here's a decent vid that touches on it.

I've seen a few of these pseudo-documentaries but Resonant Arc seems really biased/blinded by nostalgia with the game. I'm watching through the vid you linked and it feels like he's grasping at straws to come up with a positive spin despite the many flaws in the game.

 

[Michael Wade]

The way 14 has Incorporated 12 into itself is interesting. It's basically another continent on the map dominated by the empire with the exact same lore, monsters and Fran. It was a neat crossover/continuation. Especially how they provided closure to FF tactics and mentioned vagrant story. Only thing that sucked is that they copped out of having us fight judges for now.

 

[Coldgrip]

Counter point x 3: Fran has a great ass

...Okay, you got me there.

Outside of that though, it sucked. Remember trying to get the Zodiac Spear?

Yeah, the Jessie subplot is one of those fanfiction stories awkwardly jammed into Remake. Still one of the better fanfiction stories even though every character should be really tired for the big mission.

It really does come across as fanfiction, which brings up a somewhat horrifying possibility; what if Square has been reading the fanfiction?

What even is a sandlewood chop?

I always assumed the chops were some kind of badge you can flash to let people know you were some hotshot and I'm probably wrong.

'Chop' was another word for 'seal', as in to put your seal on something. So you're not too off with the badges idea. Still seems dumb though.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I've seen a few of these pseudo-documentaries but Resonant Arc seems really biased/blinded by nostalgia with the game. I'm watching through the vid you linked and it feels like he's grasping at straws to come up with a positive spin despite the many flaws in the game.

i should finish ff12 but I kinda wish it didn't get those shifts in development.

then again I do enjoy Ivalice.

i think a lot of FF pseudo-documentaries have nostalgia goggles tbh

 

[eternal dog mongler]

Outside of that though, it sucked. Remember trying to get the Zodiac Spear?

Don't open these random chests or it disappears forever.

The rationale given for the horrible treasure system in FF12 was that everyone's playthrough would be different because some people would pull rare items and some wouldn't, so you'd have to adapt to what you got. In practice it just meant that everyone had to reset a whole fucking lot to make sure they got the rare equipment that can be permanently missed.

 

[Coldgrip]

Don't open these random chests or it disappears forever.

The rationale given for the horrible treasure system in FF12 was that everyone's playthrough would be different because some people would pull rare items and some wouldn't, so you'd have to adapt to what you got. In practice it just meant that everyone had to reset a whole fucking lot to make sure they got the rare equipment that can be permanently missed.

The whole process reminded me of save scumming in Star Ocean 2 in order to get endgame equipment (specifically the swords). Only without the charmingly bad and weird translations and way more fucking annoying.

 

[Captain Syrup]

The 600 series had rubber skin. We spotted them easy...

- vaan beats out tidus as the least likeable MC

The decision was made to have Vaan passively observe the real plot movers. I've heard others compare him to Ishmael or John Watson, but Ondore is the one narrating this story. Without Vaan, the story would end the same.

In Revenant Wings, he graduates to a Mini-Me of Balthier full-time protag, but the damage is already done.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

When I was a kid, I hated XII. Most of it was due to the combat system. I had known FF for its turn-based battles and to see this weird automated system annoyed the hell out of me. I'd never played anything like it at the time and I thought the entire concept of it was terrible. It didn't help that I later got stuck on that prison airship and was severely underleveled and under-equipped so I couldn't properly fight the boss to escape it.

I keep thinking about giving it another chance since I've played plenty of games since then with similar automated combat like Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, and Xenoblade Chronicles and ended up liking those games. XII certainly has some interesting QoL improvements like visual indicators of who's targeting who and how long until your next action. But then there are other legitimate problems like Vaan being a useless protagonist and the story in general being a mixed bag.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

This is hardly a new observation, but the endgame should have been focused on Vaan avenging his bro's death. By the time he reaches Gabranth, he could be the spitting image of Reks.

Instead, the decision was made to have Vaan passively observe the real plot movers. Reks is just fodder to get Vaan to join. I've heard others compare him to Ishmael or John Watson, but Ondore is the one narrating this story. Without Vaan, the story would end the same.

The whole thing is pretty funny in retrospect.

Vaan accuses Basch of killing Reks, and Basch is just like "no it was my twin brother" and then that whole thing was dropped until Vaan gets to see the ghost of his dead brother probably like thirty hours of gameplay later, reminding the player that yes, this was an actual plot point at one time.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Vaan gets to see the ghost of his brother

 

[Well Intentioned]

I was really taken by the world building in XII and found the world itself to be interesting and engaging.

The actual plot and story? I have zero memory of it.

Also,

"I'm Captain Basch fon Ronsenburg of Dalmasca!"

 

[Captain Syrup]

"I'm Captain Basch fon Ronsenburg of Dalmasca!"

I expected Arabian Nights/Aladdin-themed hijinks (reflecting the desert culture of Rabanstre), and I get an irritating little bugger who, like a dud penny, turns up everywhere.

 

[Someone in a Tree]

As sloppy as XII’s story is, I still find it kinda refreshing that it deviates from the “teens save the planet from being destroyed by a magical villain” path that the series was stuck on for the past few mainline titles. We’ve only had two single player games in the main series since it was released 15 years ago. Perhaps if they were able to release these games more quickly, they could afford to take more risks with the plots.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

As sloppy as XII’s story is, I still find it kinda refreshing that it deviates from the “teens save the planet from being destroyed by a magical villain” path that the series was stuck on for the past few mainline titles.

Ultimately, I can see where they were going with it. Matsuno's M.O. is a personal conflict that spirals out of control and widens in scope until it changes the course of history forever (Tactics Ogre, FFT.)

If Ashe was the main character and Reks had some more significance then I think it could have worked out plot-wise.

 

[Smug Chuckler]

I was really taken by the world building in XII and found the world itself to be interesting and engaging.

The actual plot and story? I have zero memory of it.

Also,

"I'm Captain Basch fon Ronsenburg of Dalmasca!"

It's just like 8, great setting but instead of retarded, it's boring. I've never played through 12 without giving up on the game but I did with 8 since it was stupid fun.

 

[Well Intentioned]

It's just like 8, great setting but instead of retarded, it's boring. I've never played through 12 without giving up on the game but I did with 8 since it was stupid fun.

FF8 was a disjointed mess of set pieces that didn't really feel connected but did feel sterile to me. It was jarring going from FF7 and exploring Midgar, plus prior FF games having some connectivity to them, to FF8 just being a bunch of places you haphazardly don't actually travel to. Even FFX, with it's annoying as fuck main character and linear progression with no real exploration, still had a very breathable world.

Not to mention all the usual complaints that come with FF8 (story, characterization, mechanics, etc.)