Clayton Ray Huff / Dream / DreamOnPvP / DreamTraps / DreamAF / DreamXD / DeltaKnight / DreamSkilful / Clayman23 - Fat Minecraft Youtuber with fans that want to torture and rape him and are in denial that he's fat.

[Jester]

These people have hyper emotions that no normal human can possibly understand, everything is the most extreme to them so they can be super speshal with their made up ass burgers and altuism.
Tone Indicators are another exmple of this where you gotta add like /j for joking and /li for literally, because as I said they are super super emotional and cannot understand basic human interactions so they communicate on a whole different wave length

To be honest, I love the new tag because it’s more easy to find the autism.

Also that hyperfixation thing, that’s normal behavior. Everyone gets passionate about something and change from time to time. Why do they make it sound like it’s an illness they can do nothing about?

 

[purpleflurp]

So Karl's finally finished editing his Dream video. From the looks of things, the breakdown is gonna be something like this:

• To nobody's surprise, there's been plenty of lies throughout this entire drama.
• Karl gives a crash course on Mods vs Plugins.
• Despite how much coverage this situation has had, Karl is the only person who's reached out to Clay for comments or clarification.
• Second half the video goes into debunking a bunch of misinformation spread by commentary channels.

Karl's fairly convinced it should clear up most of the misinformation, especially since he's got a massive infodump to back everything up.

Also that hyperfixation thing, that’s normal behavior. Everyone gets passionate about something and change from time to time. Why do they make it sound like it’s an illness they can do nothing about?

Because on the stan side of things, it makes them feel "special" and unique, and for people who hate stans it's a buzzword that they can use to insult them without just calling them retards.

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

I honestly dont understand how their fanbases can watch those god awful streams , i watched technos lastest stream and it was literally nothing but "subscribe!" while ringing a bell and some shitty banter. They arent running on fumes they have got out of the car and started pushing it while leaving the parking brake on.

 

[purpleflurp]

I honestly dont understand how their fanbases can watch those god awful streams , i watched technos lastest stream and it was literally nothing but "subscribe!" while ringing a bell and some shitty banter. They arent running on fumes they have got out of the car and started pushing it while leaving the parking brake on.

According to Techno, they did that stream as a "filler" episode since Awesamdude was on vacation for his birthday.

That said, MC stans get autistically mad whenever the guy interacts with their favorite streamers, so I'm all for it.

 

[Aidan]

I honestly dont understand how their fanbases can watch those god awful streams , i watched technos lastest stream and it was literally nothing but "subscribe!" while ringing a bell and some shitty banter. They arent running on fumes they have got out of the car and started pushing it while leaving the parking brake on.

I sometimes wonder if I was a kid if I'd be eating this shit up as right now I don't get what's entertaining about most of this at all. I've stopped trying to grasp it, it really seems like a lot of kids run on autopilot based off of whatever is recommended and then they follow it to twitch to "interact" with their favorite e-celeb.
Further, I don't understand who the fuck is subbing/donating to these people. What parents pay for Twitch or Youtube membership? There's no reason to.

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

I sometimes wonder if I was a kid if I'd be eating this shit up as right now I don't get what's entertaining about most of this at all. I've stopped trying to grasp it, it really seems like a lot of kids run on autopilot based off of whatever is recommended and then they follow it to twitch to "interact" with their favorite e-celeb.
Further, I don't understand who the fuck is subbing/donating to these people. What parents pay for Twitch or Youtube membership? There's no reason to.

at least on twitch you can sub with amazon prime so im sure its the reason why they make so much money since its alot easier for a kid/teen to use amazon prime to sub then to sub with a credit card/paypal.

i think the entertainment comes more from the streamers than the actual game , if all these streamers started playing house flipper or power washing simulator or some other game in that vain they wouldnt lose much of their following.

 

[Aidan]

Karl's vid is up. I don't expect it to go anywhere but I'll download it and if anything happens pm me and I can provide it, even if it means breaking it up and reuploading here.

(not detailed)

Spoiler: thoughts as I view it

20 minutes in and it's him trying to show how what Clay has said is actually reasonable and not manipulation/lying
My favorite bit is his baseless speculation on why the mod dev didn't tell anyone about their changes to the client at any point which basically amounts to "They didn't wanna get fired once they realized how much drama they caused"

30 minutes in
Fair consideration of the infamous astrostatistician.

44 minutes in
just explaining Dream is retarded at math but glances over a blatant retarded lie by Clay as a misunderstanding

52 minutes
Karl says he contacted the mods quoted in Clay's response video and they asked him not to share those messages and used them in a misleading away

56 minutes
Acknowledges Clay twists quotes to suit his agenda. Says he "bends the truth" but doesn't blatantly lie.

59 minutes
Says a lot of things he thinks Clay has improved on since the cheating drama, notably that Clay really does seem to try to reign in his fans

1 hour 5 minutes
acts like it's crazy that Clay would fake his reactions to the livestreamed cheatruns

1 hour 6 minutes
acts like it's crazy that Clay would write a 10 page "report" on probabilities when Clay had no business writing it to begin with considering how demonstrably bad at math he is
also acts like it's crazy he'd spin a general web of lies (it is which is why this thread is fun)

Overall - Karl is being way too soft but that's his thing so expected.

 

[Jester]

at least on twitch you can sub with amazon prime so im sure its the reason why they make so much money since its alot easier for a kid/teen to use amazon prime to sub then to sub with a credit card/paypal.

i think the entertainment comes more from the streamers than the actual game , if all these streamers started playing house flipper or power washing simulator or some other game in that vain they wouldnt lose much of their following.

Also a lot of kids “make donations” to literally talk to their favorite streamer. Some even do 20-50$ Donations and say it was all of their birthday money. Those kids are not poor.

Spoiler: Autism on classism in fandoms

I am probably talking out of my ass but in most fandom there is a class system, who can afford the most rare or exclusive stuff is high up in the fandom hierarchy. You even have different “class”, with Kpop for exemple (from lowest to highest):
- fans with nothing/bootleg items
- fans with some official merch/albums.
- fans with access to concerts/international event.
- fans with access to special fan club/events (mostly in the home country of the group).
- “Professional” fans going to every event and being “noticed” by the group.

The thing is, since most people use fandoms to make friends, and people want to be friend with the cool kids(aka top of the fandom hierarchy). Therefore, they have to consume (or create consumable media) in order to make friends/be someone in the fandom.

If as a creator, you manage to do that, it’s a really good way to make fans spend money on you or/and work for you for free.

 

[purpleflurp]

Also a lot of kids “make donations” to literally talk to their favorite streamer. Some even do 20-50$ Donations and say it was all of their birthday money. Those kids are not poor.

I think one of the worst cases of this is when it's not kids, but grown ass adults doing this.

Like I've seen some people in their late 20's doing multiple large donations per stream just so they can guilt the streamer into reading/replying to their messages. It's pretty fucking cringey.

Karl's vid is up. I don't expect it to go anywhere but I'll download it and if anything happens pm me and I can provide it, even if it means breaking it up and reuploading here.

You might want to focus on downloading the videos he cited as spreading misinformation, given those are more likely to be deleted. Even if you take away how cooperative Dream was through this past month, Karl's interactions with Billy Mitchell are a good sign of how he treats people trying to silence him.

 

[Jester]

Karl's vid is up. I don't expect it to go anywhere but I'll download it and if anything happens pm me and I can provide it, even if it means breaking it up and reuploading here.

I think he did a good job but since the answer is very nuanced, people who hate Dream will say it wasn’t an accident and people who love him will say it was an accident.

 

[FisterSister]

Karl's vid is up. I don't expect it to go anywhere but I'll download it and if anything happens pm me and I can provide it, even if it means breaking it up and reuploading here.

It's a well made video but he heavily relies on 'anonymous sources' and things he claims to have seen but cannot share, which really does not help the situation at all.
When there are so many verifiable facts out there that have major players names behind them, "dude trust me " isn't a great way to debate against that.

 

[Aidan]

You might want to focus on downloading the videos he cited as spreading misinformation, given those are more likely to be deleted. Even if you take away how cooperative Dream was through this past month, Karl's interactions with Billy Mitchell are a good sign of how he treats people trying to silence him.

I'm not going to get the URLs together until later today at best but if anyone has any handy and provides them then I'll download them as I see the posts.

 

[purpleflurp]

It's a well made video but he heavily relies on 'anonymous sources' and things he claims to have seen but cannot share, which really does not help the situation at all.
When there are so many verifiable facts out there that have major players names behind them, "dude trust me " isn't a great way to debate against that.

What verifiable facts outweigh his video? The moderators who initially started the complaints believe what Karl's presented, as has Antvenom, and between them and Karl they were really the only trustworthy parties that had relevant knowledge in this situation.

The main thing Karl's video was supposed to prove was that a lot of people were saying shit that's just outright wrong. Like the H3 podcast, Beluga, Omni, Nick Deorio, Bowblax, AugieRFC, etc.

At this moment, sure, things like the modder ultimately boil down to "dude trust me", but there's no verifiable evidence that goes against it. Plus, let's say Dream paid the modder to take the fall for him. Why not pay him a bit more and have him put his name on the line, since Karl says that the modder has a public presence? It's not like taking a reputation hit as a fabric modder is worth more than a couple racks.

Like let's be real here: Clay has paid artists more money for his shitty merch and twitter pfp than most MTG artists get paid for detailed art that gets printed and sold around the world. If he was going to pay a fall guy, why not go all the way and have them go public?

 

[Sprate Header]

At this moment, sure, things like the modder ultimately boil down to "dude trust me", but there's no verifiable evidence that goes against it. Plus, let's say Dream paid the modder to take the fall for him. Why not pay him a bit more and have him put his name on the line, since Karl says that the modder has a public presence? It's not like taking a reputation hit as a fabric modder is worth more than a couple racks.

Why on earth would the modder agree to take the fall for Dream? He'd get mobbed by stans because he made Dream look bad! Staying anonymous over this, while annoying for us, is completely understandable.

 

[Lapis Lazuli]

I wonder how many of these kids realize that most slurs against LGBT people and the mentally disabled only started getting majorly stigmatized in the mid 2010's. It takes time for words like those to leave people's normal vocabularies.


but swastikas only upset jews, and jews are white so its ok

I'd prefer if no slurs were stigmatized, actually.

 

[purpleflurp]

Why on earth would the modder agree to take the fall for Dream? He'd get mobbed by stans because he made Dream look bad! Staying anonymous over this, while annoying for us, is completely understandable.

I was speaking hypothetically there. Personally I don't doubt the story too much, since Karl's been going into greater details on his server. Basically all of the info he's discussed has been supported by April and KaptainWutax, the current and former head moderators. If the people who started this investigation and got the most shit are verifying Karl's evidence, who am I to question it?

I'd prefer if no slurs were stigmatized, actually.

Slurs are for tree weights.

 

[financhu]

Karl's vid is up. I don't expect it to go anywhere but I'll download it and if anything happens pm me and I can provide it, even if it means breaking it up and reuploading here.

(not detailed)

Spoiler: thoughts as I view it

20 minutes in and it's him trying to show how what Clay has said is actually reasonable and not manipulation/lying
My favorite bit is his baseless speculation on why the mod dev didn't tell anyone about their changes to the client at any point which basically amounts to "They didn't wanna get fired once they realized how much drama they caused"

30 minutes in
Fair consideration of the infamous astrostatistician.

44 minutes in
just explaining Dream is retarded at math but glances over a blatant retarded lie by Clay as a misunderstanding

52 minutes
Karl says he contacted the mods quoted in Clay's response video and they asked him not to share those messages and used them in a misleading away

56 minutes
Acknowledges Clay twists quotes to suit his agenda. Says he "bends the truth" but doesn't blatantly lie.

59 minutes
Says a lot of things he thinks Clay has improved on since the cheating drama, notably that Clay really does seem to try to reign in his fans

1 hour 5 minutes
acts like it's crazy that Clay would fake his reactions to the livestreamed cheatruns

1 hour 6 minutes
acts like it's crazy that Clay would write a 10 page "report" on probabilities when Clay had no business writing it to begin with considering how demonstrably bad at math he is
also acts like it's crazy he'd spin a general web of lies (it is which is why this thread is fun)

Overall - Karl is being way too soft but that's his thing so expected.

An hour and 15 minutes... he really went all out on this.

The video perfectly captures Dream's character. A theme throughout this whole saga is that people who knew Dream were willing to believe he didn't cheat based on the strength of his character alone. Even I immediately accepted Dream's story that it was an accident, and everything had been excacerbated by his childish way of reacting to things, particularly when trying to argue a case. As I've mentioned in previous posts, this mistake is exactly like other mistakes and miscommunications Dream has made while developing for MunchyMC.

The video lays bare for the internet to see Dream's difficulty in handling criticism, a subtext even his fans have noticed. The video explicitly makes the subtext text in a way Dream simply can't ignore.

Dream's response to this video, and his response to how he acted throughout the entire cheating saga, will inform how he responds to all criticism in the future. Of course he won't change overnight, so I don't think this thread will end up dying any time soon. But this video says more clearly than anything else, Dream is now expected to handle being criticised like an adult, and not act out like the kid playing videogames all day he was just a couple of years ago.

This whole thing has been the saga of a lowkey toxic gamer kid who got famous way too quickly for him to comprehend right on the cusp of adulthood and the internet letting him know you can't act like that and expect people to believe you. His lesson on why you should check yourself before you wreck yourself was played out for the entire internet to see.

No doubt Dream learnt something valuable from this whole saga, but what other extremely public lessons will he end up being taught in the future?

 

[purpleflurp]

No doubt Dream learnt something valuable from this whole saga, but what other extremely public lessons will he end up being taught in the future?

Hopefully he comes to the same realization that Arin and Dan from Game Grumps did: Having people making NSFW art of you and your friends will negatively impact your mental health and relationships.

 

[JuliusBranson]

Karl's vid is up. I don't expect it to go anywhere but I'll download it and if anything happens pm me and I can provide it, even if it means breaking it up and reuploading here.

(not detailed)

Spoiler: thoughts as I view it

20 minutes in and it's him trying to show how what Clay has said is actually reasonable and not manipulation/lying
My favorite bit is his baseless speculation on why the mod dev didn't tell anyone about their changes to the client at any point which basically amounts to "They didn't wanna get fired once they realized how much drama they caused"

30 minutes in
Fair consideration of the infamous astrostatistician.

44 minutes in
just explaining Dream is retarded at math but glances over a blatant retarded lie by Clay as a misunderstanding

52 minutes
Karl says he contacted the mods quoted in Clay's response video and they asked him not to share those messages and used them in a misleading away

56 minutes
Acknowledges Clay twists quotes to suit his agenda. Says he "bends the truth" but doesn't blatantly lie.

59 minutes
Says a lot of things he thinks Clay has improved on since the cheating drama, notably that Clay really does seem to try to reign in his fans

1 hour 5 minutes
acts like it's crazy that Clay would fake his reactions to the livestreamed cheatruns

1 hour 6 minutes
acts like it's crazy that Clay would write a 10 page "report" on probabilities when Clay had no business writing it to begin with considering how demonstrably bad at math he is
also acts like it's crazy he'd spin a general web of lies (it is which is why this thread is fun)

Overall - Karl is being way too soft but that's his thing so expected.

That whole video was probably commissioned by Dream, is totally dishonest, and relies on two paradoxes. The first is that we are told to have faith in the credibility of an anonymous developer who is on Dream's payroll. This in turn hinges on the credibility of Karl, who keeps multiple secrets for Dream and his friends, making him very sus and not credible. The second is that we are supposed to have faith in the normie-tier notion that "conspiracies" don't happen even while we are told that Dream pays this developer who is supposedly credible, that Dream payed for the fake report by someone who they also refuse to share the identity of, and that Dream actually provided Karl with access to his emails for this propaganda piece that just happens to end up being in favor of Dream despite the fact that a) Dream cheated b) He lied about for 6 months c) he is generally a manipulative liar who makes songs about that fact (Mask) and who meticulously tries to hide his face despite being an anti-racist inoffensive Minecraft youtuber because he secretly weighs 600 lbs and he needs his 13 year old girl fanbase to be unaware of that fact to keep making shekels.
Karl's paid defense of Dream is to sugar coat the willful lying and say the initial cheating wasn't intentional. This hinges on gaslighting about trusting anonymous people on Dream's payroll and about muh "conspiracy theories" even when we know all these people coordinated with Dream and were paid by him, and are also too ashamed to reveal who they are.
The thesis of the video on its face is not even convincing. A) Dream had "luck" for 6 runs in a row B) Dream admittedly knew he played with increased item drop rates (a dishonest tactic given that he wasn't straightforward with this in his supposedly real entertainment videos) C) Dream immediately deleted his mod folder when accused D) his excuse his accepted by Karl despite pattern matching perfectly onto what retarded guilty people say (they give some nonsense excuse, this happens all the time in elementary school, and Dream does have the mind of a 9 year old given he plays minecraft for a living).
The only way Karl's conclusion would be plausible on its face would be if Dream had immediately been open about the increased drop rates he usually uses and had said that, although he doesn't think they were on, maybe they were and he wants to figure out how immediately. Instead he kept that secret for 6 months and hired some Indian to write a fake report. If it wasn't initially intentional (it was) it soon became intentional. We don't need to even bother with Karl's hall of smoke and mirrors.
Conclusion: if minecraft youtubers can psy op this hard, what can the government and obviously coordinating corporations do?

 

[TSG]

Amazing video by Karl Jobst. I am inclined to believe everything in his video given how its so well made and the extent he went to obtain information. I have to say, anyone would skew the story and change the focus of perspective in order to clear their name, whether they are guilty or not. His judgement on dream's character is of course, focused on this whole cheating scandal, and not on other issues like his manipulation and parasocial relationships with children.

However, he did point out a hole where the mod maker, that dream hired, did not save version histories of said mod. Now I have literally zero idea on how modding or coding works but my point is that, for someone who knows how to make plugins or code, you would think Dream would code the most important thing that pillars his content creation. Besides, he doesn't really make videos on a weekly or daily basis, or even stream often. Where does he use his time then? Well I guess if you make so much money from a few videos, anyone would fall into decadence. If you have the money, hire someone to do your work I guess. Even then, Karl said that the mod doesn't exist anymore? Does this sound fishy or what, it's like getting rid of the evidence.

Very unlikely theory, what if Dream did make the mod but pin it on an anonymous person. That could be the basis of his climb to "innocence". And this would mean that Dream knowingly found a way to include mods secretly and invisibly. Then again, it takes a considerable amount of sociopathy to achieve what he did, if he is guilty of course.