Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[esmeggs]

"who bounce back from addiction and abuse and everything life throws at them and make amazing art"
Is this about Contrapoints or is this a dig at him? Timing on this is odd since just yesterday Contra dropped a trailer for his video that will be posted this week (likely later).
(archive)

 

[Tombigbee]

View attachment 2343022
"who bounce back from addiction and abuse"
Is this about Contrapoints or is this a dig at him? Timing on this is odd since just yesterday Contra dropped a trailer for his video that will be posted this week (likely later).
(archive)

Someone asks Olly in his 200K live stream, “who is the best actor and actress of all time?” and he says “my friends.” Lol.

I think part of his narcissism is that of course a wonderful person such as Olly would have the bestest, most amazing friends in all the land. Also he wants to make it seem like his “friends” are industry.

It’s at 1:18:18 here:

200k Subs Livestream! ft. ContraPoints

To mark the channel reaching 200,000 subs I'll be having a livestream, taking questions, and talking about my upcoming VidCon visit, plus Natalie stops by fo...

m.youtube.com

 

[Karras Rising]

Is this about Contrapoints or is this a dig at him? Timing on this is odd since just yesterday Contra dropped a trailer for his video that will be posted this week (likely later).

It reads more like a (vapid) shout-out to PT’s close friends, to me, but I’m not well versed in Contra’s history. Maybe Olly is referring to that transgender Muslim bloke.

 

[esmeggs]

It reads more like a (vapid) shout-out to PT’s close friends, to me, but I’m not well versed in Contra’s history. Maybe Olly is referring to that transgender Muslim bloke.

Contrapoints admitted that he had an opioid addiction for the past year or so, a couple weeks back he posted on instagram claiming to be a month sober. He's also struggled with alcoholism for probably most of his life (he would make his own alcohol in his closet as a teenager). I highlight "abuse" too because Contra acts like getting 'cancelled' on twitter was incredibly traumatic for him. Also Contrapoints often brags that his videos are "art".

It just seems like it's directed at Contrapoints since it specifically mentions addiction, and it's pretty well known among Breadtube fans that he's an addict. Plus Olly seems obsessed with Contra. Even if he didn't have Contra in mind (doubtful), there's no way Olly posted that without realizing people would think it was about Contrapoints.

Someone asks Olly in his 200K live stream, “who is the best actor and actress of all time?” and he says “my friends.” Lol.

I think part of his narcissism is that of course a wonderful person such as Olly would have the bestest, most amazing friends in all the land. Also he wants to make it seem like his “friends” are industry.

It’s at 1:18:18 here:

200k Subs Livestream! ft. ContraPoints

To mark the channel reaching 200,000 subs I'll be having a livestream, taking questions, and talking about my upcoming VidCon visit, plus Natalie stops by fo...

m.youtube.com

Damn I really thought it was going to be sweet/corny going into it but the way he says "well my friends are actors" came off as a brag. Even when he's not trying to be self-centered he comes off as somewhat narcissistic.

 

[AntiStan23]

View attachment 2343022
Is this about Contrapoints or is this a dig at him? Timing on this is odd since just yesterday Contra dropped a trailer for his video that will be posted this week (likely later).
(archive)

Well, since PT is obviously obsessed with contrapoints it is likely about her. How cringe after contrapoints stated that she‘s „not really in THAT PERSONS life“ after a simp asked her if it wasn’t delightful when Abigail trooned out. She called contrapoints her ‚friend‘ on multiple other occasions as well. She actually never misses a chance to move into the supposed proximity of contrapoints. Personally i feel like she actually doesn’t give a shit about natalie wynn the person, but she hopes a little of her fame could rub off on her. Just narcissism. These people only care about themselves and nobody else. You can percieve her delusions of grandiosity very clearly when you see her act in front of the camera. It’s like a car crash, you simply can’t look away even if it’s horrible and you know you should not keep watching. Probably part of why she is successful in the first place. The lolcow factor.

 

[fax machine]

This will either be very interesting or very puzzle piece-y. You decide.

While scouring Twitter for mentions of the PT/Contra drama, I stumbled upon this account (archive):

Blank avatar, nondescript handle, next to no followers, and 687 tweets since November 2020 (up to 689 while I was writing this post). Highly unusual, that — being so active on Twitter without making connections or personalizing the account. Even people who want to stay anonymous pick out anime avatars. This person has been tweeting into the void for eight months without carving out an identity. Curious.

Scrolling through those 687 tweets, the picture only grows curiouser and curiouser:

• snl825 never retweets or tweets independently. They only quote tweet and respond to other tweets, getting into arguments with other small accounts.
• The vast, vast majority of these arguments are about Philosophy Tube. Remember that November 2020 join date? It significantly coincides with the time some Twitter users cancelled PT for tweeting a transition joke about Trump. The tweet has since been deleted, and I can't find the recap on the Farms, but you can watch this Vaush video if you care enough to suffer it. The TLDR is that PT made a trans joke on November 12, and Twitter went mad because cis people making trans jokes is TRANSFFFOBIA. (PT hadn't yet come out.) This is relevant because snl825 tweeted for the first time on November 13, nobly defending Olly from the mob:

• snl825 went on to make 74 tweets in the next four days, all defending PT from negative responses to his trans joke. They allowed that some criticisms were "valid" but staunchly maintained that Olly was a good guy who deserved the benefit of the doubt. Often they made remarkably specific comments about Olly's behavior and state of mind.

Spoiler: sample

• snl825 knows their PT lore so well that they feel confident refuting someone else's claim that Olly doesn't read tweets without notifications, making the fine distinction that he doesn't have notifications *on* for non-mutuals but still might *read* their tweets.
• snl825 notes that Olly "made a deliberate effort [in interviews] to highlight" the fact that his Shakespeare charity stream was primarily managed by trans women. The diction is interesting. Imagine you're a PT fan — cringe, but give it a shot. Wouldn't you say something more along the lines of "the Shakespeare stream was managed by trans women; he mentioned it in this interview [link]"? (From a quick search, I can't actually find an interview in which he said that the stream was managed by trans women.) It's quite bizarre for an outside observer to say that Olly "made a deliberate effort to highlight" X. It suggests a familiarity with not only his public statements, but his personal intentions and the energy he put into expressing them.

• After falling silent for a couple weeks, snl825 reemerged to hype Olly's postmortem livestreams:

• And continued to pop up every month or two to argue with small accounts who criticized PT.

Spoiler: getting huffy at claims that Olly doesn't take feedback well

Spoiler: my guy is NOT hypocritical or money hungry

Spoiler: comparing trans women to black women isn't racist somehow

Literally hundreds of tweets on this subject. It really got under snl825's skin. All in response to a terrifically dumb February 11 tweet in which PT claimed that the denial of black and Asian women's social value through imputations of insufficient femininity is somehow analogous to the observation that trans women's bodies are literally natally male.

Oh dear he's upset the black women now by comparing himself to black women.
View attachment 1914315

Spoiler: Princess Abi deserves an LGBT award two seconds after coming out

Spoiler: THE SUBSTANCE IS THERE

• In 2020, snl825 branched out slightly to discuss general interest trans issues not directly pertinent to PT. Crucially, even these replies have @PhilosophyTube among the mentions. In fact, every snl825 tweet responds to a thread that mentions the official @PhilosophyTube account.

Spoiler: example tweet (L) + mentions (R)

For every tweet with visible mentions, @PhilosophyTube is among them. Some of snl825's tweets respond to deleted accounts, so the mentions aren't immediately visible, but if you navigate upthread to an earlier snl825 response to an active account, you'll find that they jumped in at a point where @PhilosophyTube was in the conversation.

• At the same time, note the peculiar fact that snl825 — a fan of singular intensity, familiar with the most esoteric details of PT's work — does not, as a rule, directly respond to their hero @PhilosophyTube. No retweets of video stills, no engagement with other PT fans, no discussion of new content. Only one fawning reply to a since deleted blurry thirst trap:

• And this tweet isn't so much about PT as it is a knock against the TERFS in the replies. Generally, snl825 only tweets to argue with TERFs and other critics of PT that appear in @PhilosophyTube's mentions.
• About their own identity, snl825 says that that they're a "cis woman who doesn't have XX chromosomes... [has] to take estrogen... [and] can't get pregnant naturally." Conveniently, they first revealed this in the middle of an argument about whether trans women are women. They didn't mention their sex or gender before. I'm sure it doesn't need to be said that people claim all kinds of things on the Internet to gain stronger rhetorical footing, and given snl825's total lack of an identity beyond their dunks on TERFs aS a CiS wOmAn, I shall have to press X to doubt their honesty here.

Spoiler: and more

(archive)

• Naturally, they also claim not to know PT.

(archive)

• Twice, other users have pointed out that snl825 looks like a sockpuppet. They've admitted that this is an alt and that they have a main account:

(archive)

(archive)

• As for the real identity of this mysterious fan... well, some moments make you wonder.

(archive)

---

So I think this is PT's burner account. Consider:

• every tweet is a response to a response to @PhilosophyTube.
• often this person chimes in dozens of tweets downthread, far deeper than any normal fan would scroll to defend their fave.
• this person is obsessively invested in these deep cut arguments, sending many dozens of tweets per day when PT falls in troubled waters — but only once (out of 687 tweets) in direct support of @PhilosophyTube.
• later, this person starts to argue endlessly about trans issues with exactly the same opinions and rhetorical strategies advanced by PT. This isn't unusual — fans parrot their faves, and much of Trans Twitter subscribes to the same orthodoxy — but the fact that snl825 conducts 100% of these arguments in threads that mention @PhilosophyTube should raise eyebrows. It would be one thing if they were merely a diehard PT fan defending their fave in his mentions. If they're a cis intersex woman generally interested in trans rights, why don't they respond to other threads across the platform?
• lastly: cringe, shiver, BABES. This, a cis woman? X X X X X.

There's no smoking gun, but look at this heap of little things — and look at the tweets. Take a minute to scroll through them. Feel out the voice of the writer. If you've read PT's Twitter and Tumblr, you know how he sounds.

snl825 likes exclamation points and caps for emphasis. They type dashes in sentences with single hyphens rather than double hyphens, en-dashes, or em-dashes. They punctuate the beginnings and ends of their sentences with "lol" and "haha" and smile emoticons. I could sperg on, but you get the gist. I'm not saying that any one of these patterns constitutes proof, just that you can very easily read snl825's 687 tweets in Abi's femme voice, sometimes rising to a drama school shout à la Trans Pride.

Tell me what's more likely:

1. that snl825 is the alt of a PT superfan, a cis intersex woman so dedicated to her fave that she exclusively digs into the dregs of his mentions to pick fights with 37-follower nobodies?
2. or that snl825 is the alt of PT, who saw these arguments show up in his own mentions and went incognito to fight back without cracking on main?

PT has said many times that he's terrified of being cancelled. November 2020 was the first time he felt heat for something he said himself (previously, he'd only been targeted for his friendship with Contra). Why wouldn't he make an alt to defend himself, to moderate the conversation and stem the backlash among his fans? PT is preternaturally obsessed with his public image; it's in his character to try to stamp out the negativity before it spreads. And why wouldn't he have a little fun dunking on TERFs along the way? It would be improper for Abigail Thorn to get her hands dirty, but snl825 can holler "disgusting bigot" and "you TERF cultists" as much as they want.

Occam's razor cuts deep.

---

Finally, if you're wondering which tweets led me to this account, let's circle back to Contra:

(archive)

(archive)

As weird and pathetic as this account may be, I think these tweets are totally reasonable. It's clear that PT is still into Contra while Contra wants nothing to do with him, and that's creepy — but it doesn't mean he assaulted Contra, and it's not his fault /tttt/ can't or won't read the timeline. PT has the right to defend himself from accusations of sexual assault. He doesn't want to do it on main and give the rumors more exposure. Understandable. If he'd created this account simply to dispel those rumors, I'd get it.

But first he spent 683 tweets yelling at critical fans and TERFs, so yeah I'm gonna laugh at them.

Bonus:

(archive)

Bet you five bucks that this, and not the Mumsnet comment, was the incident that inspired his "motherhood is a social construct" bit in the latest video.

 

[AfghanBlue]

@fax machine fucking hell, good work.
know at the last few screen shots. it sounded like PT typing all the way through anyway, then all the ‘babes’ were a gift.

also, something about use of the term ‘libellous nonsense’ just seems like…particularly something you would say if it was about you? like you’ve gone all the way down the legal fantasy of getting the naughty 4channers all the way to court in your head.. i dunno something about that word particularly more than say, slanderous, just makes it feel like it’s really him. Lollllll

 

[TERF respecter]

@fax machine You'll have job offers from the glow in the dark department after this. All the circumstantial evidence lines up and points in one direction. Olly would always leave a trail trying to do something like this, he's just not sharp enough. Keking at his seethe over the 4chan stuff too.

 

[AntiStan23]

This will either be very interesting or very puzzle piece-y.

It was very interesting. And yes it’s definitely PT. Who else would write out ‚Babes‘ all the time. I literally know nobody else who uses that phrase. Plus the fact that this whole acct is dedicated to whiteknighting for PT. my favorite one was the one where she congratulated herself on the gorgeous and radiant photo and concluded with ‚keep being awsome Abi‘. Cringey af

 

[esmeggs]

While scouring Twitter for mentions of the PT/Contra drama, I stumbled upon this account (archive):
View attachment 2343384
Blank avatar, nondescript handle, next to no followers, and 687 tweets since November 2020 (up to 689 while I was writing this post). Highly unusual, that — being so active on Twitter without making connections or personalizing the account. Even people who want to stay anonymous pick out anime avatars. This person has been tweeting into the void for eight months without carving out an identity. Curious.

Scrolling through those 687 tweets, the picture only grows curiouser and curiouser:

• snl825 never retweets or tweets independently. They only quote tweet and respond to other tweets, getting into arguments with other small accounts.
• The vast, vast majority of these arguments are about Philosophy Tube. Remember that November 2020 join date? It significantly coincides with the time some Twitter users cancelled PT for tweeting a transition joke about Trump. The tweet has since been deleted, and I can't find the recap on the Farms, but you can watch this Vaush video if you care enough to suffer it. The TLDR is that PT made a trans joke on November 12, and Twitter went mad because cis people making trans jokes is TRANSFFFOBIA. (PT hadn't yet come out.) This is relevant because snl825 tweeted for the first time on November 13, nobly defending Olly from the mob:

View attachment 2343385

• snl825 went on to make 74 tweets in the next four days, all defending PT from negative responses to his trans joke. They allowed that some criticisms were "valid" but staunchly maintained that Olly was a good guy who deserved the benefit of the doubt. Often they made remarkably specific comments about Olly's behavior and state of mind.

Spoiler: sample

View attachment 2343389View attachment 2343390View attachment 2343391View attachment 2343392

• snl825 knows their PT lore so well that they feel confident refuting someone else's claim that Olly doesn't read tweets without notifications, making the fine distinction that he doesn't have notifications *on* for non-mutuals but still might *read* their tweets.
• snl825 notes that Olly "made a deliberate effort [in interviews] to highlight" the fact that his Shakespeare charity stream was primarily managed by trans women. The diction is interesting. Imagine you're a PT fan — cringe, but give it a shot. Wouldn't you say something more along the lines of "the Shakespeare stream was managed by trans women; he mentioned it in this interview [link]"? (From a quick search, I can't actually find an interview in which he said that the stream was managed by trans women.) It's quite bizarre for an outside observer to say that Olly "made a deliberate effort to highlight" X. It suggests a familiarity with not only his public statements, but his personal intentions and the energy he put into expressing them.

• After falling silent for a couple weeks, snl825 reemerged to hype Olly's postmortem livestreams:

View attachment 2343393

• And continued to pop up every month or two to argue with small accounts who criticized PT.

Spoiler: getting huffy at claims that Olly doesn't take feedback well

View attachment 2343394View attachment 2343395

Spoiler: my guy is NOT hypocritical or money hungry

View attachment 2343396View attachment 2343397

Spoiler: comparing trans women to black women isn't racist somehow

View attachment 2343406View attachment 2343407View attachment 2343408View attachment 2343409View attachment 2343410View attachment 2343411

Literally hundreds of tweets on this subject. It really got under snl825's skin. All in response to a terrifically dumb February 11 tweet in which PT claimed that the denial of black and Asian women's social value through imputations of insufficient femininity is somehow analogous to the observation that trans women's bodies are literally natally male.

Spoiler: Princess Abi deserves an LGBT award two seconds after coming out

View attachment 2343431

Spoiler: THE SUBSTANCE IS THERE

View attachment 2343434

• In 2020, snl825 branched out slightly to discuss general interest trans issues not directly pertinent to PT. Crucially, even these replies have @PhilosophyTube among the mentions. In fact, every snl825 tweet responds to a thread that mentions the official @PhilosophyTube account.

Spoiler: example tweet (L) + mentions (R)

View attachment 2343399View attachment 2343400
For every tweet with visible mentions, @PhilosophyTube is among them. Some of snl825's tweets respond to deleted accounts, so the mentions aren't immediately visible, but if you navigate upthread to an earlier snl825 response to an active account, you'll find that they jumped in at a point where @PhilosophyTube was in the conversation.

• At the same time, note the peculiar fact that snl825 — a fan of singular intensity, familiar with the most esoteric details of PT's work — does not, as a rule, directly respond to their hero @PhilosophyTube. No retweets of video stills, no engagement with other PT fans, no discussion of new content. Only one fawning reply to a since deleted blurry thirst trap:

View attachment 2343416

• And this tweet isn't so much about PT as it is a knock against the TERFS in the replies. Generally, snl825 only tweets to argue with TERFs and other critics of PT that appear in @PhilosophyTube's mentions.
• About their own identity, snl825 says that that they're a "cis woman who doesn't have XX chromosomes... [has] to take estrogen... [and] can't get pregnant naturally." Conveniently, they first revealed this in the middle of an argument about whether trans women are women. They didn't mention their sex or gender before. I'm sure it doesn't need to be said that people claim all kinds of things on the Internet to gain stronger rhetorical footing, and given snl825's total lack of an identity beyond their dunks on TERFs aS a CiS wOmAn, I shall have to press X to doubt their honesty here.

View attachment 2343401

Spoiler: and more

View attachment 2343404View attachment 2343405View attachment 2343413View attachment 2343414View attachment 2343418View attachment 2343419View attachment 2343420View attachment 2343421View attachment 2343423View attachment 2343426View attachment 2343427View attachment 2343429View attachment 2343430
(archive)

• Naturally, they also claim not to know PT.

View attachment 2343487
(archive)

• Twice, other users have pointed out that snl825 looks like a sockpuppet. They've admitted that this is an alt and that they have a main account:

View attachment 2343412
(archive)

View attachment 2343415
(archive)

• As for the real identity of this mysterious fan... well, some moments make you wonder.

View attachment 2343417View attachment 2343422View attachment 2343424View attachment 2343425View attachment 2343435View attachment 2343436View attachment 2343437
(archive)

---

So I think this is PT's burner account. Consider:

• every tweet is a response to a response to @PhilosophyTube.
• often this person chimes in dozens of tweets downthread, far deeper than any normal fan would scroll to defend their fave.
• this person is obsessively invested in these deep cut arguments, sending many dozens of tweets per day when PT falls in troubled waters — but only once (out of 687 tweets) in direct support of @PhilosophyTube.
• later, this person starts to argue endlessly about trans issues with exactly the same opinions and rhetorical strategies advanced by PT. This isn't unusual — fans parrot their faves, and much of Trans Twitter subscribes to the same orthodoxy — but the fact that snl825 conducts 100% of these arguments in threads that mention @PhilosophyTube should raise eyebrows. It would be one thing if they were merely a diehard PT fan defending their fave in his mentions. If they're a cis intersex woman generally interested in trans rights, why don't they respond to other threads across the platform?
• lastly: cringe, shiver, BABES. This, a cis woman? X X X X X.

There's no smoking gun, but look at this heap of little things — and look at the tweets. Take a minute to scroll through them. Feel out the voice of the writer. If you've read PT's Twitter and Tumblr, you know how he sounds.

snl825 likes exclamation points and caps for emphasis. They type dashes in sentences with single hyphens rather than double hyphens, en-dashes, or em-dashes. They punctuate the beginnings and ends of their sentences with "lol" and "haha" and smile emoticons. I could sperg on, but you get the gist. I'm not saying that any one of these patterns constitutes proof, just that you can very easily read snl825's 687 tweets in Abi's femme voice, sometimes rising to a drama school shout à la Trans Pride.

Tell me what's more likely:

1. that snl825 is the alt of a PT superfan, a cis intersex woman so dedicated to her fave that she exclusively digs into the dregs of his mentions to pick fights with 37-follower nobodies?
2. or that snl825 is the alt of PT, who saw these arguments show up in his own mentions and went incognito to fight back without cracking on main?

PT has said many times that he's terrified of being cancelled. November 2020 was the first time he felt heat for something he said himself (previously, he'd only been targeted for his friendship with Contra). Why wouldn't he make an alt to defend himself, to moderate the conversation and stem the backlash among his fans? PT is preternaturally obsessed with his public image; it's in his character to try to stamp out the negativity before it spreads. And why wouldn't he have a little fun dunking on TERFs along the way? It would be improper for Abigail Thorn to get her hands dirty, but snl825 can holler "disgusting bigot" and "you TERF cultists" as much as they want.

Occam's razor cuts deep.

Unfortunately all of Olly's tweets from before June 13th are deleted, so I was only able to compare the times when these two accounts were active on July 5th. They were both tweeting within about 15 minutes of one another, with the SNL825 account tweeting first, meaning that the SNL825 account wasn't just tweeting because they saw PT was active. Could be a coincidence, especially since I can only compare one day, but thought I would still point it out.

SNL825 tweeted at: 8:31 AM, 8:32 AM, 11:28 AM
PT tweeted at 8:46 AM, 11:43 AM, 11:45 AM, 11:47 AM

Spoiler: Tweets w/ Times

 

[TootfuckingToot]

Unfortunately all of Olly's tweets from before June 13th are deleted, so I was only able to compare the times when these two accounts were active on July 5th. They were both tweeting within about 15 minutes of one another, with the SNL825 account tweeting first, meaning that the SNL825 account wasn't just tweeting because they saw PT was active. Could be a coincidence, especially since I can only compare one day, but thought I would still point it out.

SNL825 tweeted at: 8:31 AM, 8:32 AM, 11:28 AM
PT tweeted at 8:46 AM, 11:43 AM, 11:45 AM, 11:47 AM

Spoiler: Tweets w/ Times

View attachment 2344438View attachment 2344431View attachment 2344429
View attachment 2344432View attachment 2344434View attachment 2344433View attachment 2344430

Bravo Fax machine! Snl825's likes reveal the same old tra talking points and direct replies to the Philosophy Tube main account. Why is this cis woman so hyperfocused on this exclusively?

 

[NormieCasual]

(archive)

Totally buy that this is Ollie, I just wanted to add that I find it interesting that Natalie's full name is being used while snl825 shortens Ollie's new name. Both are about the same length and now it just looks a bit off. Probably reading too much into it, but it just looks stranges.

Also, the terf war continues with the new video

 

[UVB-76]

He's also struggled with alcoholism for probably most of his life (he would make his own alcohol in his closet as a teenager).

These people are weirdly resourceful but never for things that could actually help their lives.

 

[Cr1ms0n_&_C10v3r]

This will either be very interesting or very puzzle piece-y. You decide.

While scouring Twitter for mentions of the PT/Contra drama, I stumbled upon this account (archive):
View attachment 2343384
Blank avatar, nondescript handle, next to no followers, and 687 tweets since November 2020 (up to 689 while I was writing this post). Highly unusual, that — being so active on Twitter without making connections or personalizing the account. Even people who want to stay anonymous pick out anime avatars. This person has been tweeting into the void for eight months without carving out an identity. Curious.

Scrolling through those 687 tweets, the picture only grows curiouser and curiouser:

• snl825 never retweets or tweets independently. They only quote tweet and respond to other tweets, getting into arguments with other small accounts.
• The vast, vast majority of these arguments are about Philosophy Tube. Remember that November 2020 join date? It significantly coincides with the time some Twitter users cancelled PT for tweeting a transition joke about Trump. The tweet has since been deleted, and I can't find the recap on the Farms, but you can watch this Vaush video if you care enough to suffer it. The TLDR is that PT made a trans joke on November 12, and Twitter went mad because cis people making trans jokes is TRANSFFFOBIA. (PT hadn't yet come out.) This is relevant because snl825 tweeted for the first time on November 13, nobly defending Olly from the mob:

View attachment 2343385

• snl825 went on to make 74 tweets in the next four days, all defending PT from negative responses to his trans joke. They allowed that some criticisms were "valid" but staunchly maintained that Olly was a good guy who deserved the benefit of the doubt. Often they made remarkably specific comments about Olly's behavior and state of mind.

Spoiler: sample

View attachment 2343389View attachment 2343390View attachment 2343391View attachment 2343392

• snl825 knows their PT lore so well that they feel confident refuting someone else's claim that Olly doesn't read tweets without notifications, making the fine distinction that he doesn't have notifications *on* for non-mutuals but still might *read* their tweets.
• snl825 notes that Olly "made a deliberate effort [in interviews] to highlight" the fact that his Shakespeare charity stream was primarily managed by trans women. The diction is interesting. Imagine you're a PT fan — cringe, but give it a shot. Wouldn't you say something more along the lines of "the Shakespeare stream was managed by trans women; he mentioned it in this interview [link]"? (From a quick search, I can't actually find an interview in which he said that the stream was managed by trans women.) It's quite bizarre for an outside observer to say that Olly "made a deliberate effort to highlight" X. It suggests a familiarity with not only his public statements, but his personal intentions and the energy he put into expressing them.

• After falling silent for a couple weeks, snl825 reemerged to hype Olly's postmortem livestreams:

View attachment 2343393

• And continued to pop up every month or two to argue with small accounts who criticized PT.

Spoiler: getting huffy at claims that Olly doesn't take feedback well

View attachment 2343394View attachment 2343395

Spoiler: my guy is NOT hypocritical or money hungry

View attachment 2343396View attachment 2343397

Spoiler: comparing trans women to black women isn't racist somehow

View attachment 2343406View attachment 2343407View attachment 2343408View attachment 2343409View attachment 2343410View attachment 2343411

Literally hundreds of tweets on this subject. It really got under snl825's skin. All in response to a terrifically dumb February 11 tweet in which PT claimed that the denial of black and Asian women's social value through imputations of insufficient femininity is somehow analogous to the observation that trans women's bodies are literally natally male.

Spoiler: Princess Abi deserves an LGBT award two seconds after coming out

View attachment 2343431

Spoiler: THE SUBSTANCE IS THERE

View attachment 2343434

• In 2020, snl825 branched out slightly to discuss general interest trans issues not directly pertinent to PT. Crucially, even these replies have @PhilosophyTube among the mentions. In fact, every snl825 tweet responds to a thread that mentions the official @PhilosophyTube account.

Spoiler: example tweet (L) + mentions (R)

View attachment 2343399View attachment 2343400
For every tweet with visible mentions, @PhilosophyTube is among them. Some of snl825's tweets respond to deleted accounts, so the mentions aren't immediately visible, but if you navigate upthread to an earlier snl825 response to an active account, you'll find that they jumped in at a point where @PhilosophyTube was in the conversation.

• At the same time, note the peculiar fact that snl825 — a fan of singular intensity, familiar with the most esoteric details of PT's work — does not, as a rule, directly respond to their hero @PhilosophyTube. No retweets of video stills, no engagement with other PT fans, no discussion of new content. Only one fawning reply to a since deleted blurry thirst trap:

View attachment 2343416

• And this tweet isn't so much about PT as it is a knock against the TERFS in the replies. Generally, snl825 only tweets to argue with TERFs and other critics of PT that appear in @PhilosophyTube's mentions.
• About their own identity, snl825 says that that they're a "cis woman who doesn't have XX chromosomes... [has] to take estrogen... [and] can't get pregnant naturally." Conveniently, they first revealed this in the middle of an argument about whether trans women are women. They didn't mention their sex or gender before. I'm sure it doesn't need to be said that people claim all kinds of things on the Internet to gain stronger rhetorical footing, and given snl825's total lack of an identity beyond their dunks on TERFs aS a CiS wOmAn, I shall have to press X to doubt their honesty here.

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Spoiler: and more

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• Naturally, they also claim not to know PT.

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• Twice, other users have pointed out that snl825 looks like a sockpuppet. They've admitted that this is an alt and that they have a main account:

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• As for the real identity of this mysterious fan... well, some moments make you wonder.

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---

So I think this is PT's burner account. Consider:

• every tweet is a response to a response to @PhilosophyTube.
• often this person chimes in dozens of tweets downthread, far deeper than any normal fan would scroll to defend their fave.
• this person is obsessively invested in these deep cut arguments, sending many dozens of tweets per day when PT falls in troubled waters — but only once (out of 687 tweets) in direct support of @PhilosophyTube.
• later, this person starts to argue endlessly about trans issues with exactly the same opinions and rhetorical strategies advanced by PT. This isn't unusual — fans parrot their faves, and much of Trans Twitter subscribes to the same orthodoxy — but the fact that snl825 conducts 100% of these arguments in threads that mention @PhilosophyTube should raise eyebrows. It would be one thing if they were merely a diehard PT fan defending their fave in his mentions. If they're a cis intersex woman generally interested in trans rights, why don't they respond to other threads across the platform?
• lastly: cringe, shiver, BABES. This, a cis woman? X X X X X.

There's no smoking gun, but look at this heap of little things — and look at the tweets. Take a minute to scroll through them. Feel out the voice of the writer. If you've read PT's Twitter and Tumblr, you know how he sounds.

snl825 likes exclamation points and caps for emphasis. They type dashes in sentences with single hyphens rather than double hyphens, en-dashes, or em-dashes. They punctuate the beginnings and ends of their sentences with "lol" and "haha" and smile emoticons. I could sperg on, but you get the gist. I'm not saying that any one of these patterns constitutes proof, just that you can very easily read snl825's 687 tweets in Abi's femme voice, sometimes rising to a drama school shout à la Trans Pride.

Tell me what's more likely:

1. that snl825 is the alt of a PT superfan, a cis intersex woman so dedicated to her fave that she exclusively digs into the dregs of his mentions to pick fights with 37-follower nobodies?
2. or that snl825 is the alt of PT, who saw these arguments show up in his own mentions and went incognito to fight back without cracking on main?

PT has said many times that he's terrified of being cancelled. November 2020 was the first time he felt heat for something he said himself (previously, he'd only been targeted for his friendship with Contra). Why wouldn't he make an alt to defend himself, to moderate the conversation and stem the backlash among his fans? PT is preternaturally obsessed with his public image; it's in his character to try to stamp out the negativity before it spreads. And why wouldn't he have a little fun dunking on TERFs along the way? It would be improper for Abigail Thorn to get her hands dirty, but snl825 can holler "disgusting bigot" and "you TERF cultists" as much as they want.

Occam's razor cuts deep.

---

Finally, if you're wondering which tweets led me to this account, let's circle back to Contra:
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As weird and pathetic as this account may be, I think these tweets are totally reasonable. It's clear that PT is still into Contra while Contra wants nothing to do with him, and that's creepy — but it doesn't mean he assaulted Contra, and it's not his fault /tttt/ can't or won't read the timeline. PT has the right to defend himself from accusations of sexual assault. He doesn't want to do it on main and give the rumors more exposure. Understandable. If he'd created this account simply to dispel those rumors, I'd get it.

But first he spent 683 tweets yelling at critical fans and TERFs, so yeah I'm gonna laugh at them.

Bonus:
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Bet you five bucks that this, and not the Mumsnet comment, was the incident that inspired his "motherhood is a social construct" bit in the latest video.

Holy shit, great find! This would be entirely in character for him to be doing.

 

[Clem Fandango]

Totally buy that this is Ollie, I just wanted to add that I find it interesting that Natalie's full name is being used while snl825 shortens Ollie's new name. Both are about the same length and now it just looks a bit off. Probably reading too much into it, but it just looks stranges.

Also, the terf war continues with the new video
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"No wigs or dresses in that video..."

Isn't that something only Olly would know?? It's definitely him. Lol, pathetic.

 

[Tombigbee]

I want it to be true but I’m not sure. I did see that Olly puts his punctuation outside of his quotes, and the anon account doesn’t. Or vice versa. I didn’t look very far but the instances I saw didn’t match up.

On the other hand, I always thought Olly’s “be kind to everyone, even to those who are unkind to me” LARP was bullshit. So it would make sense that he’d have an outlet like this for him to cope and seethe.

 

[esmeggs]

I can't help but notice this thread is filled with dumb mistakes (usually timeline related) so I put together this wonderful timeline (under spoiler) that goes into the actual timeframes of events and tries to debunk some misconceptions when it comes to Oliver's transition as well as the relationship between Nyk and Oliver.
Maybe it's my autism talking but I hate shit research even more than I hate trannies so I frankly don't give a shit if what I'm about to say makes these AGPs seem less terrible, at least I'm not lying to myself about the facts.
Also there's some lovely speculation peppered in for your entertainment since the post is already way too long.

PS: If you're wondering why I know so much abt trans healthcare in the UK it's cuz I used to be a TIM (*gasp*) going through transition in the UK. Don't ask me abt it, it was a shit emo phase.

So here's my lovely little triple checked Timeline:

Spoiler: Timeline

Late 2018 - late 2019: Oliver and Nyk are dating. [this has been confirmed over and over again in this thread]

October 2019: The "Queer" video comes out.
I'm gonna throw a curveball at y'all but I speculate that he identified as nonbinary at this point (whether Nyk or anyone else knew abt this is debatable). I do not have any credible sources just a bit of suspect subtext so take this with a rock of salt.
My main point is that if he accessed transition through the NHS [which is likely due to how much he talks about waiting times in his manifesto] he would've had to apply for gender therapy and enter a waiting list, and since those are sometimes years long, this is probably the most recent he could possibly have entered the system for him to be able to get HRT at the time he did. There's also a chance he could've done this while dating Nyk but my point is, if he went through the NHS, this is the latest he could've possibly applied.
Also, in order to change your gender marker [which he flaunts ever so subtly in his coming out video] in the UK you need to present 2 years of proof that you're the gender you say you are so I don't think it's a totally insane idea that he would enter the system at this time (although yes you can get "proof" in other ways).
Also fucking watch the video and tell me that's not a closeted tranny, I dare you.

Jan 2020: Nyk uploads "Cancelling" where he mentions that a prominent leftist figure raped him.
[The fact that this wasn't just sexual harassment but a full-on rape is later confirmed in the "J.K. Rowling" video.]
He talks about this in a very nonchalant way, as if he already made peace with this fact, it's likely that this happened quite a while back. At this time Nyk and Oliver were still good friends, regularly interacting through twitter etc.

Feb 2020: Nyk uploads "Shame" under which Oliver comments, revealing himself as "Chad" [this comment was later deleted]. This comment is hearted by Nyk, therefore it's very unlikely that the person who raped Nyk was Oliver.
After this Oliver has a mental breakdown, some speculate this is the moment his egg cracked but I am sceptical because of the aforementioned NHS waiting lists. I do think that it's possible that if he ID'd as nonbinary before this point, this was the moment where he went full-on tranny. This would also fit his claim that he started writing the script to the coming out video around a year before it came out.

April 2020: Oliver uploads his last video with a beard.

June 2020: Oliver uploads his first video without a beard under the guise of "scaring off the nazis".
In reality it was probably because he recently finally accessed gender therapy and knew if he didn't shave no one would take him seriously as a tran. We can't know for sure when he shaved, so it's just as possible that he started therapy right after filming the video in early April (and spent some time coming up with ways of excusing his missing facial hair in the next vid) or right after the June one.

June - August 2020: Oliver uploads multiple videos at this time during which we can pretty clearly see his features change ever so slightly. Notice how in "Logic" he still wears a tight-fitting shirt but after that he only wears big jackets to hide his skittle tits [he actually confirmed hiding his E tits in his coming out statement]. It is my belief that he started HRT somewhere in this timeframe and was definitely 100% on Estrogen by the time the "Confucius" video was uploaded.
Idk who spread the misinformation that he started HRT in Jan/Feb 2020 [he never said that lmao he only said that's when he started writing the script] but that shit makes no sense considering everything. Especially if you think that the Feb 2020 breakdown was his egg cracking, there's no way on earth or hell that he could access HRT that fucking quickly, even if he went private that's not how this works. Even if Feb 2020 indeed was the month he got transed getting HRT would not happen for months, which again brings us to this timeframe.

26th January 2021: Nyk uploads the "J.K.Rowling" video. From what I can gather Nyk and Oliver were still friends at this time.
This is the only video Nyk uploaded in the first half of 2021. At the time of writing it's his only 2021 video. After this he goes on the longest hiatus he has ever taken, and we probably know why.

30th January 2021: Oliver publicly comes out as a tranny.
I wanted to speculate on when he got his name and gender marker changed based on his tweets about making the video but it seems he has deleted all his tweets and replies from before June 4th so i cannot get the specific dates.
What we do know however is that by the point the video was being filmed he had been on HRT for at least a few months, changed his legal name and gender marker and had zero surgeries.
We also know that before the video was uploaded he still had an okay relationship with Nyk, good enough that he quoted him in his coming out video. A lot of people are saying this was intended to hurt Nyk but considering the fact that shit seemed to go down only AFTER this video was uploaded, I doubt it.

March 8th 2021: Nyk gets an ask about Oliver's coming out and says "I am not in that person's life anymore. I had an inkling but I don't particularly want to speak about it."
He says it like it's an open wound. Very different compared to the way he, for example, talks about his own rape.
Now this one is interesting for multiple reasons. First, we can tell that Nyk didn't know Oliver was trans, that's pretty obvious. Second, notice that the wording is "I am not in THIS PERSON's life", not "This person is not in my life anymore". He doesn't even acknowledge Oliver's new name on his own, he struggles to even say it out loud when reading the question.
Now I know y'all love to paint Oliver as this big narcissist supervillain (tbh i just think that's giving him too much credit, he's a soyboy with a big ego at best) so I get that what I'm gonna say will be controversial but...I think Oliver might've been the one to end things with Nyk.

At this point it's only speculation but what I think happened was pretty much:
O: Hey Nat! Look I'm a tran! My name is Abigail now! I paid an homage to you in my coming out statement!
N (high on opioids): ...Olly I don't know what the fuck happened but you're not trans. I know you! You're a guy through and through! When we met you were an absolute Chad! Please stop this man you're embarrassing yourself, the pandemic just got you all messed up.
O:...fuck off??

March 25th 2021: Philosophytube Kiwifarms thread is created.
I feel like this gives us the most info on why shit got so confusing. Y'all didn't collect info gradually, you just went off and compiled shit together so obviously it seems like they've had a falling out a longass time ago. I just think it's stupid trying to make it seem like y'all know everything behind these peoples facades while not even thinking abt some of the shit you put out here. Take this as a learning moment, triple check your claims!!! Also yea feel free to add onto this as you please, I'm really interested in y'all's takes.

I really enjoyed reading thru this thread, I just really think a lot of what you guys are saying is a lot more dramatic than the real lives of these AGP's. They're about as tasteful as a bag of concrete.

Going back and reading this exceptional post by "extranny456" was fun now that we have reason to think Olly might be making alt accounts in order to argue with people that criticize him.

Just imagine Olly writing this:
"N (high on opioids): ...Olly I don't know what the fuck happened but you're not trans. I know you! You're a guy through and through! When we met you were an absolute Chad!"

 

[Tombigbee]

That person puts their punctuation on the outside of their quotes as well. Is that a British thing? I know either are in common usage but I feel like it’s something people would do unconsciously and consistently. I always put mine on the “inside.”

”scaring off the Nazis”.

 

[esmeggs]

That person puts their punctuation on the outside of their quotes as well. Is that a British thing? I know either are in common usage but I feel like it’s something people would do unconsciously and consistently. I always put mine on the “inside.”

"Quotations:

American style: “Economic systems,” according to Professor White, “are an inevitable byproduct of civilization, and are, as John Doe said, ‘with us whether we want them or not.’”

British style: ‘Economic systems’, according to Professor White, ‘are an inevitable byproduct of civilization, and are, as John Doe said, “with us whether we want them or not”’.

The above examples also show that the American style places commas and periods inside the quotation marks, even if they are not in the original material. British style (more sensibly) places unquoted periods and commas outside the quotation marks. For all other punctuation, the British and American styles are in agreement: unless the punctuation is part of the quoted material, it goes outside the quotation marks."
Source

 

[UngluedSeahorse]

"Quotations:

American style: “Economic systems,” according to Professor White, “are an inevitable byproduct of civilization, and are, as John Doe said, ‘with us whether we want them or not.’”

British style: ‘Economic systems’, according to Professor White, ‘are an inevitable byproduct of civilization, and are, as John Doe said, “with us whether we want them or not”’.

The above examples also show that the American style places commas and periods inside the quotation marks, even if they are not in the original material. British style (more sensibly) places unquoted periods and commas outside the quotation marks. For all other punctuation, the British and American styles are in agreement: unless the punctuation is part of the quoted material, it goes outside the quotation marks."
Source

Interestingly, the potential burner claims to be American. Yet all the punctuation usage and general typing quirks match up nearly exactly with Olly’s posts. Plus the general usage of phrases that are more common in the UK.