Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Dreamer]

Confidence is outward appearance. If a bully stays looking powerful all his/her friends later in life will assume he’s never been a bully. The bully will adapt to environment.

And this is how i know you have no confidence.
"Fake it till you make it" doesn't work, it just leads to an impostor syndrome.
Now back to the DMs with you, im not done.

 

[Fougaro]

Do femcels exist (I am sure they do)?

Of course femcels exist. What do you think the entire point of feminism is in the first place?

 

[Linkin Park]

Absolute gem of a post. You hit the nail on the fucking head, so close in fact I have to ask if this is from personal experience?

I think a major issue that has perpetuated the incel problem has been the mixing of the term to mean both the cult of Incels (the killers and their followers) and guys who just can't get laid. I would say the majority of incels fall into the later group, they're just socially maladjusted men who are struggling with dating. Why these men end up here varies, personally I attribute it mostly to a society that doesn't give a fuck (and frankly is outright antagonistic) towards young men. When you have a due who is just depressed and lonely, and society treats him like the former cult-like Incel, his depression will turn to bitter resentment. And who will be waiting for him with open arms then? The Incel community of course, they will be the only people to offer him empathy and companionship, and thus he will spiral further. The extreme antagonism towards both kinds of incels is what propagates the majority of them, and the slightest shred of empathy would go a long way in fixing most of them. But of course that will never happen.

I'm speaking from personal experience as someone who was a "normal" incel. I had shit self esteem and bad luck with women, that turned into a complex. The more I was berated and the more the aggressive narrative about incels grew, the more my complex turned towards anger at people. I just wanted to be loved and to feel valuable, but despite my success in all other walks of life, I was made to feel like a freak for not getting my dick wet. I internalized that feeling and otherized myself, which in turn otherized everyone else. I felt like I was marked in some, irredeemable because I didn't touch a pussy before I turned 20. It sounds absurd, but there are plenty of dipshits like this who perpetuate those ideas.


I was in a really dark place for a long time. Never wanted to hurt anyone except myself, came close to it a couple times. Eventually I grew out of it, but it was hard to do that without a shred of support or empathy. The thing that ultimately saved me was learning to not give a single concern as to what others think about me. Made me a bit of an asshole, but whatever. Focused entirely on making myself content and what do you know a couple months later my self esteem was fixed and I was dating a girl.

To be clear though, Elliot Rodger types should be rounded up and buried alive. Speds who want to kill random people over pussy aren't worth keeping around.

We really do need a different term for the different incels though. That would be a good first step. Not holding my breath though.

Incel went from being self-identifying to externally identified, which is a part of the antagonistic behavior towards men that you mentioned. Men who criticize society outwardly and/or blindly believe in it will be emasculated, berated, and discontent with living. That's why regular dudes are labeled "incels", especially in a time where it seems like more guys are virgins than girls. They either get shook and conform, not wanting to be seen as the next Elliot Rodgers, or they find solace in his ilk.

Like you said, MGTOW (actually focusing on shit and not worrying about bitches over whatever it currently is) is the best choice for these dudes who can't get laid. It actually prepares you for post-breakup shit and self-reliance anyways

 

[shortstack]

If a child is bullied at a young age do they internalise it to such an extent that they prove to themselves those bullies were correct?

There's a variety of factors to account for in regards to whether kids internalize negative feelings either inflicted upon them or impressed upon themselves. Most of them, I think, have to do with how the kid was raised, and whether they had a significant enough figure in their life to teach them how to deal with negative remarks, bullies, and most importantly the value of self-esteem.
In relation to incels, I've found that many of them think their issues with social skills are based on how they were treated in school, but specifically high school. They seem to think that because they were "rejects" in school, they'll be rejects for life. They adopt these negative impressions as fact, as if it's indisputable scientific truth.

It's bullshit.

It's correct that how you're treated in school can affect you in adulthood, however, being aware of this fact and acknowledging this influence can already start you on a path to overcoming the negative perception of yourself that you've inherited. Everyone encounters some kind of trauma in their developing years. It isn't a coincidence that many incels cling onto this trauma like a disease that justifies their actions and perceptions. They are conditioned into doing so by other incels. Incel communities are predominantly toxic environments for emotionally compromised men.
Members of these communities will feel the need to impress their own personal theories about dealing with trauma, most of which are horribly ineffective as evidenced by the real-world tragedies caused by said members, on troubled, weak men who at first only seek to interact with others who share in their mutual failure to be accepted by society. As a result, you have an impressionable man who now believes that all his problems are caused by women and society as a whole.

I understand that I've probably rambled on in regards to my answer to you, but what I'm trying to illustrate is that you can't entirely pin the blame on how a kid was raised in school for why they're now an incel, or on track to becoming one. You can't entirely blame women, or society. Incels are radicalized individuals who have been duped into believing that there is no hope for them, and secure this belief by remaining in a toxic environment like an incel community.

 

[SideshowBob]

As a result, you have an impressionable man who now believes that all his problems are caused by women and society as a whole.

Race mixing killed society. Complacent normies will have to deal with the revenge after pushing us away.

 

[RurkerHivemind]

Yeah. I kinda have to agree with a lot that's said here.

It isn't as easy as just having sex but the connection people make that holds them in the long term.

Having a one night stand isn't helping and in some cases make shit worse due to how impersonal it felt.

That and how women will always look to past boyfriends especially in their sexual experiences would also always be a factor.

Honestly to quote Benny from New Vegas,the game seemed rigged from the start. Been barely able to recover from my own breakup some years back and I stopped bothering with a shrink as it really didn't make any results and honestly made things worse for me.

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

bullies, and most importantly the value of self-esteem.

Views on self esteem have been largely altered.
It’s very important to actually do the things which give you a good feeling.

they get 1 of the many factors for self esteem by socialising online. And then once those people on the forums accept them they’re blind to the truth because morality is mostly a differentiation between shifting points of view. I think the issue is everything’s changing so fast and for me my mum and dad had two different moral codes. Morality without god is whatever doesn’t get you isolated and kicked out of your basic needs (shelter, food supply, freedom) but it used to be more black and white.

In relation to incels, I've found that many of them think their issues with social skills are based on how they were treated in school, but specifically high school. They seem to think that because they were "rejects" in school, they'll be rejects for life. They adopt these negative impressions as fact, as if it's indisputable scientific truth.

I agree. But I would say it’s learned while their brains were leaning important concepts.

Incel communities are predominantly toxic environments

Most of the internet is focused on looks (dating online, Instagram, YouTube celebs). This is why they need to put the phone down.

who now believes that all his problems are caused by women and society as a whole.

Women control access to their body. This is obviously very important and we have progressed through the ages. But they should be confident in how to control this power and not flash every loser who pays £10 for a peek.

Incels are radicalized individuals who have been duped into believing that there is no hope for them, and secure this belief by remaining in a toxic environment like an incel community.

Well in fairness they have a term for ‘ascending’. Most want to get away from other Incels and date any girl at all. They just don’t want to become an attractive man for a relationship. The balance of nature is that men should control their relationship holding power and so if they give up on self improvement they’re as bad as thots.

 

[LatinasAreTheFuture]

Girls are mean

 

[pedoguyguykrai]

I am going to say this for incels, no body owes you sex, the reason being is life isn't fair, disappointment comes in equal measures as joy; thats what irks me its like incels seem to forget that no one is required to sleep with them. just like no one is required to sleep with chad or jamal, its like they weigh shit based on some systematic power imbalance in why they can't get laid as anything other than their fault. Granted yes you can still do everything society considers good mate material and still be shit out of luck, and the only valid reason reason I can think of to complain about lack of pussy is if you live in winnie the poohs ccp dynasty. The lack of sex can be attributed because they killed girl babies because of 1 child policy, it why they're trafficking north korean women for wives, because the male ratio is out whack., and only then would I acknowledge a legit complaint, but then laugh hard. also japan doesnt have alot sex either, they're advancing in the love industry, I don't really see alot of complaints from japanese incels, but then again it seems like they devote they're desire else where. If you can get a 3d waifu, get a 2d waifu, problem solved.

 

[King Daddy Telomerase]

As a former incel and now nearcel that's been with a few rotund women and plenty of escorts, I'm at the point where I don't want to deal with women beyond casual friends.

Today, marriage and merely living with a woman for an extended period of time is unquestionably a terrible contract for any man to agree to.

I'm mostly fed up with the constant double standards, even on boards like these with always telling guys to improve themselves... but this never applies to women. And there are plenty of millennial/Gen Z women that desperately need to face some responsibility for their actions, which will never happen.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I'm mostly fed up with the constant double standards, even on boards like these with always telling guys to improve themselves... but this never applies to women

Yeah no shit, we don't give men tips on how not to get raped either.

Telling women to improve themselves doesn't solve their problems if they followed it. On the whole it reduces a woman's dating pool, which ia why chasing a career is a bad choice in general for women.

You know why there is a double standard? Because men and women are different. The sooner you accept that, the better off you'll be.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Yeah no shit, we don't give men tips on how not to get raped either.

Apropos of absolutely nothing: do you think that if we gave men tips on how to not get raped by a woman, there would be a not-insignificant amount of men doing precisely the opposite of what they were advised?

Telling women to improve themselves doesn't solve their problems if they followed it. On the whole it reduces a woman's dating pool, which ia why chasing a career is a bad choice in general for women.

I'm not sure about that-- I suspect insisting that women be as accountable as men in a society where they have comparable access to it seems like it'd have no impact on their dating pool but would improve the quality of their relationships. Even if we were batting closer to the notion of "career", there are plenty of ways that a woman could improve themselves without shrinking their dating pool (such as learning domestic skills like not burning the cereal).

That aside, is their dating pool shrinking (up to a certain point, anyways) necessarily a bad thing? I could only imagine a wider dating pool would encourage them to monkeybranch more if they're so inclined, which leaves them miserable in the long term and inconveniences the men monkeybranched off of.

 

[Chicken Picnic]

I'm gonna talk from I guess a slightly different perspective, in that I actually knew an incel who went on to attack people. He stabbed 3 random women over a few days, luckily all of them survived. They were random attacks, no specific age range (one was semi-elderly). I can't go into too much detail or I will be very badly doxxing myself, but he was quite young and is currently in prison.

The main thing I've learned from incels are the worst effected seem to have genuinely crippling autism. Like legitimately. I can't think of any other reason why you could be so disconnected from the reality of society- not realising how your own shitty personality shows through when you post about how you want hot women to get raped and murdered as some kind of revenge for not getting your dick wet. When an ideology is based on that already flawed viewpoint, it's dead in the water.

No amount of schooling will be able to teach people the ins and outs of social interactions. Every single person in the world slips up and makes mistakes with people- getting into fights and falling out with people on occasion. No one is a perfect human who will get along with everyone and some people out there may struggle more than others with getting through life when it comes to their social lives. When you have a community of people that's grown out of some people with really bad social skills, the people who relate the most are gonna be the kids who are lonely and feeling similar ways- likely on the spectrum too.

Working in SPED taught me a lot about how broad the spectrum of special needs can be, but a lot of people with autism really do look for patterns and relate to others with similar experiences very hard. Look at any content on YouTube talking about autism and the comment section and you will find hundreds of people describing their lives- it's very welcoming for people who probably already feel alienated and now see they're not alone in feeling this sense of disconnect from the world. As a non-autist I can say it's probably one of the hardest things I've found to try to empathize with: the feeling of just not understanding society at large like when you missed a maths class at school cause you were sick for a few days and you come back to everyone knowing how to do some shit with fractions, whilst you sit there like a lemon.

Now imagine that feeling but add in a community telling you any issues you are finding in society are nothing to do with you- it's all the trashy whore women out there and the jerk guys they wanna fuck, not that every single person is different and no one is guaranteed to want to have anything to do with you. Elliott Roger literally believed that because he had a cool car and designed clothes, plus his "attractiveness" and godlike gentleman status, women would flock to him. But in reality, social relationships aren't like a maths exam- you can't execute some kind of equation and get the best results every time. Life is hard. Society is mean to a lot of people who probably don't deserve it, but internalising that and turning it into a revenge plot and hatred for a whole chunk of the population won't make anyone like you.

If 99% of these incels stopped focusing on the fact they couldn't get laid, they would feel way better. Like stop using dating apps 20 hours a day. Stop analysing your behaviour and trying to plan your like like some min-max RPG stat builder. If you start just trying to feel better in yourself it will do wonders for your personality.

 

[Lemmingwise]

do you think that if we gave men tips on how to not get raped by a woman, there would be a not-insignificant amount of men doing precisely the opposite of what they were advised?

Heh funny question. Maybe. It's a good way to demonstrate invulnerability strength and humor.

I suspect insisting that women be as accountable as men in a society where they have comparable access to it seems like it'd have no impact on their dating pool but would improve the quality of their relationships. Even if we were batting closer to the notion of "career", there are plenty of ways that a woman could improve themselves without shrinking their dating pool (such as learning domestic skills like not burning the cereal).

Sure, there are ways women could improve themselves, but on the whole they are pretty uninterested in that whole endeavor and they certainly don't get a lot of rewards for it when they do.

I'm speaking about long term, though, and usually am. Improving herself might lead to a degree, recognition, money,a number of things. But there are easier paths to get to each of these things, besides maybe recognition, and recognition is of limited value for women, besides maybe ego or trying to fill an empty hole the way many actors and actresses do.

 

[shortstack]

Most of the internet is focused on looks (dating online, Instagram, YouTube celebs). This is why they need to put the phone down.

Yet the environment many of them choose to adopt is one where they're constantly told that their looks will keep them from being happy; this environment being an incel community. As I said in my conclusion, incels breed incels. A troubled man doesn't naturally choose to adopt the lingo and beliefs held by other incels just by browsing Twitter a lot.
The argument I'm trying to make is that more people should be aware of how a man with crippling emotional issues can become an incel, and why that's dangerous both to him and his peers. It's dangerous because of how the incel community online radicalizes men with nowhere else to go.

Well in fairness they have a term for ‘ascending’. Most want to get away from other Incels and date any girl at all.

I'm sure there are a few people in the community who genuinely do give advice to others in order to help them "ascend", but this shouldn't distract from how the majority of people on sites like incels.is actively encourage continued, repeated negative behaviors in order to reinforce the idea that they're all without hope, and the only thing they can blame is everyone else.

---

The main thing I've learned from incels are the worst effected seem to have genuinely crippling autism.

This is something I observed when working on my paper about incels. The unfortunate truth is that men with asperger's are at the highest risk to execute extreme violent behavior as self-identifying incels that are/were actively engaged in those communities. I'll list off a few:

Alek Minassian (Toronto van attack)
Asperger's Syndrome, attended special ed classes. [source]

Nikolas Cruz (Stoneman Douglas high school shooter)
ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome, attended a school for children with learning disabilities [source, statement in investigative report]

Chris Harper-Mercer (Oregon college shooter)
Asperger's Syndrome, medicated until the age of 18 when he decided to stop taking them [source, statement by mother]

Cole Carini (would-be shopping mall bomber)
ADHD and autism, diagnosed in 4th grade [source, sworn statement by mother]

There are attacks that we don't have a lot of information about as well, such as what's happened in the past year, and even some of the older killers that haven't been tested for the disorder.

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

Yet the environment many of them choose to adopt is one where they're constantly told that their looks will keep them from being happy; this environment being an incel community. As I said in my conclusion, incels breed incels. A troubled man doesn't naturally choose to adopt the lingo and beliefs held by other incels just by browsing Twitter a lot.
The argument I'm trying to make is that more people should be aware of how a man with crippling emotional issues can become an incel, and why that's dangerous both to him and his peers. It's dangerous because of how the incel community online radicalizes men with nowhere else to go.

I can’t add much to what you’ve said. Most boils down to the nature of dating and how women and men don’t have ‘equal partnerships’. A man needs to stay valuable (career) and a woman needs to stay (realistically) pure if they choose to go for the heterosexual marriage life story. As humans we can’t help it what we find attractive.

Otherwise a woman can just hire a very large dog if she lives in a dangerous city

 

[Margo Martindale]

All i know is that its a problem society is facing, and the book 'No more mr nice guy' provides some good insights into it.

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

All i know is that its a problem society is facing, and the book 'No more mr nice guy' provides some good insights into it.

I’ve read that and would say it’s great for people who are flat out reatrded and young in their view of romance.

In other news: Everyone’s favourite lolcow was looking at it too.

Debating Sargon About Coach Redpill, Men vs Women And Relationships

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youtu.be

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

I'm not sure about that-- I suspect insisting that women be as accountable as men in a society where they have comparable access to it seems like it'd have no impact on their dating pool but would improve the quality of their relationships.

There needs to be a negative outcome for partying all of their 20s away and that’s not happening in a degenerate world.

 

[Dreamer]

There needs to be a negative outcome for partying all of their 20s away and that’s not happening in a degenerate world.

why?