Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[DetectiveDuBois]

I noticed you seem to rapidly shift from "lucid" posts where you're reasonable, to posts where you make yourself the victim, and finally to posts that are meant as an attack
Why are you doing that? I have a pretty good idea but i want to hear your thoughts first

It’s funny I guess? The more deeply people examine incels is cringe to me. They show a lot about their own prejudices towards men’s rights (prison sentencing, homelessness, divorce) And the motivations are amusing.

 

[Mr Snek]

I agree with that, but a convenient relationship can still be meaningful and fulfilling, which I was arguing was something incels have a difficult time comprehending.

True, I'd say unless one or both partners are extremely greedy or stupid, then the couple would at least need to be able to get along comfortably, even if they don't really love each other. Conversely, the worst couples I've seen are ones that rush into getting married and having kids due to either personal or social values.

I think a complete overhaul of how we help people with conditions like this would be needed if we were to really make a dent in helping prevent this shit. Having some kind of regular screening process through puberty or something to help identify people having issues with their relationships to catch this kind of thought process early on and prevent radicalisation.

That's true, but it'll never happen with the current education system. The best thing those kinds of kids can get is a slap in the face when they get to uppity to remind them that they're not hot shit and that they're responsible for their own actions and achievements.

 

[Dreamer]

It’s funny I guess?

No
Its a coping mechanism
When faced with an idea you don't like you stop being reasonable and start protecting yourself and your beliefs first by trying to attain affirmation through pity, then when that doesnt work, through devaluing the other "speaker" and thus his opinion. you're doing it even in this post right now, by pretending opposing views are now funny to you.

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

No
Its a coping mechanism
When faced with an idea you don't like you stop being reasonable and start protecting yourself and your beliefs first by trying to attain affirmation through pity, then when that doesnt work, through devaluing the other "speaker" and thus his opinion. you're doing it even in this post right now, by pretending opposing views are now funny to you.

Classic projection to shift blame to whoever disagrees with your insults - reeeee all virgins = incel, all other men love women for who they are.

Most of the incel stalkers use appeals to authority instead of a balanced worldview because you think society is moving forward.

 

[shortstack]

Conversely, the worst couples I've seen are ones that rush into getting married and having kids due to either personal or social values.

Absolutely. You see it all the time, especially here in the southern US. Though that might just be the meth.

---

They show a lot about their own prejudices towards men’s rights

How about you ask us instead of assuming? Get back on your meds dude, I want to keep talking to the guy I was talking to yesterday.

 

[Dreamer]

Classic projection to shift blame to whoever disagrees with your insults - all virgins = incel, all other men = woman protector. Most of the incel stalkers use appeals to authority instead of a balanced worldview because you think society is moving forward.

Its pretty entertaining how you used textbook projection WHILE calling me out on projecting. But please, go on, i want to hear more about my beliefs from someone i never told them to.
Btw "appeal to authority" is a logical fallacy, not exactly something to be proud off.

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

Its pretty entertaining how you used textbook projection WHILE calling me out on projecting. But please, go on, i want to hear more about my beliefs from someone i never told them to.
Btw "appeal to authority" is a logical fallacy, not exactly something to be proud off.

You seem to sway towards whoever gives you affirmation of the belief women are incapable of abuse.

 

[Dreamer]

You seem to sway towards whoever gives you affirmation of the belief women are incapable of abuse.

I don't remember taking about women.
Anyway, "projection" as a defense mechanism more specifically involves projecting your own uncomfortable thoughts and feelings onto other people. Basically its a way of confronting yourself with a thought process you don't like in yourself.
I can definitely see how beliefs such as all virgins = incels, all normal men = woman protector, and women are incapable of abuse would make you feel inferior, trapped and resentful. And before you deny them lets just appreciate how well they fit into your other posts and the incel mindset as a whole.

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

make you feel inferior, trapped and resentful.

I‘d expect that from someone as narcissistic as you. Believing that once someone feels happy the world must fit around that mindset, it’s why many Americans waste money on therapy and then get addicted to the high.

And before you deny them lets just appreciate how well they fit into your other posts and the incel mindset as a whole.

That’s an ad hominem. And since you’re great at recognising logical fallacies here’s your greatest hits.
‘you're doing it even in this post right now, by pretending opposing views are now funny to you’
I have nothing to gain from pretending anything. It’s more like when you see someone defending the people who caused the events in their life that are now creating A miserable existence of looking for the lowest of the low. Anyone who is so narcissistic they get offended when someone tells them actually I’ve heard your advice countless times is clearly just a childless loser.

 

[shortstack]

clearly just a childless loser.

Like you, right?

 

[Dreamer]

I‘d expect that from someone as narcissistic as you. Believing that once someone feels happy the world must fit around that mindset, it’s why many Americans waste money on therapy and then get addicted to the high.

That’s an ad hominem. And since you’re great at recognising logical fallacies here’s your greatest hits.
‘you're doing it even in this post right now, by pretending opposing views are now funny to you’
I have nothing to gain from pretending anything. It’s more like when you see someone defending the people who caused the events in their life that are now creating A miserable existence of looking for the lowest of the low. Anyone who is so narcissistic they get offended when someone tells them actually I’ve heard your advice countless times is clearly just a childless loser.

1. Ok, lets add narcissism to the list of things you struggle with, ist actually not as unlikely a combination as you might think. Narcissism is just pathological self involvement and a need to seek affirmation of your self image from others so i suspect its common in incels. Actually, another neat thing, there are 2 types of narcissism. There is narcissism where your self image is positive, and where you seek complements from people, but there is also narcissism where your self image is negative and likewise you seek conformation of this image from others.

2. Therapy is not a high when done right, it doesn't constitute of just "making you feel better", but rather fixing your mental processes. You're dismissive of it because of your personal complexes or maybe a bad experience and you need to stop being dismissive of it if you ever want to get better.
3. "Ad hominem" is a personal attack, for an instance if i were to call you ugly or stupid. Its necessary direct.
4. You absolutely have something to gain from pretending, its mental comfort. That's what defense mechanisms are for. You're attacking your perceived root cause of the problems in your life because you want those problems gone.

Childless loser, another projection, again fits into the model like a glove. Look. I'm not typing it out just because im bored, im trying to illustrate to you how and why you think and do the things you do. Because the first step in overcoming those problems is acknowledging they're there. If you think you don't have a problem you wont seek help. But you do.

 

[DetectiveDuBois]

1. Ok, lets add narcissism to the list of things you struggle with, ist actually not as unlikely a combination as you might think. Narcissism is just pathological self involvement and a need to seek affirmation of your self image from others so i suspect its common in incels. Actually, another neat thing, there are 2 types of narcissism. There is narcissism where your self image is positive, and where you seek complements from people, but there is also narcissism where your self image is negative and likewise you seek conformation of this image from others.

2. Therapy is not a high when done right, it doesn't constitute of just "making you feel better", but rather fixing your mental processes. You're dismissive of it because of your personal complexes or maybe a bad experience and you need to stop being dismissive of it if you ever want to get better.
3. "Ad hominem" is a personal attack, for an instance if i were to call you ugly or stupid. Its necessary direct.
4. You absolutely have something to gain from pretending, its mental comfort. That's what defense mechanisms are for. You're attacking your perceived root cause of the problems in your life because you want those problems gone.

Childless loser, another projection, again fits into the model like a glove. Look. I'm not typing it out just because im bored, im trying to illustrate to you how and why you think and do the things you do. Because the first step in overcoming those problems is acknowledging they're there. If you think you don't have a problem you wont seek help. But you do.

Okay but using a one-size-glove therapy approach can be easily dismantled. If for example a person is currently typing on a screen while being held hostage or while their house is on fire. There’s hard determinism and soft determinism, but everyone even individualistic individuals will agree our environment isn’t chosen 100%. And physical knowledge is very important to at least grasp some of the contact lost in the body after being thrown into consciousness unwillingly (the harm of being born).

As a hard determinist I will always be scared of or dislike the actions of a evil man or woman but can never feel pride or hatred (I’m improving slowly). Because the parents and families they were raised in may be majority of the influence. Sam Harris is the person I’m reading at the moment to learn more about this.

great insights though. I hope you get paid to do this sort of thing in future because you have a very calm tone to your writings.

 

[shortstack]

Incels happen to be unsympathetic for pretty much everyone, but when they see victimhood being rewarded (say, race grifting), they think they might be able to do it too. The logic is wrong, but not necessarily crazy.

I can see it.
If the incel movement was just a bunch of lonely guys on the Internet hanging out and complaining about not getting laid, like a lot of them try to make it seem, I'm almost positive that it wouldn't be perceived nearly as negatively as it currently is today, and they probably could benefit from the victimhood they inflict upon themselves.
Fortunately they don't, but it's unfortunate for the people who were massacred because of how their community functions. They don't discourage people like Rodger or Cruz. They don't try to help prevent shit like that from happening.
I hope that changes, but it's likely it won't.

 

[Knight of the Rope]

I can’t add much to what you’ve said. Most boils down to the nature of dating and how women and men don’t have ‘equal partnerships’. A man needs to stay valuable (career) and a woman needs to stay (realistically) pure if they choose to go for the heterosexual marriage life story. As humans we can’t help it what we find attractive.

Can we cycle back to how much of a brainlet-tier opinion this was? Imagine railing against the fact that a human being who wanted to tie their life to yours has the bare minimum requirement that you're actually doing something with your life (e.g. career) and not just waiting out the clock until you're dust in the ground.

"Realistically pure" is another good one. You incels are the only ones that seem to have a problem with the fact that 99% of people past their early 20s will have had multiple previous partners and that you're not their first (and vice versa).

 

[SideshowBob]

Can we cycle back to how much of a brainlet-tier opinion this was? Imagine railing against the fact that a human being who wanted to tie their life to yours has the bare minimum requirement that you're actually doing something with your life (e.g. career) and not just waiting out the clock until you're dust in the ground.

"Realistically pure" is another good one. You incels are the only ones that seem to have a problem with the fact that 99% of people past their early 20s will have had multiple previous partners and that you're not their first (and vice versa).

If it’s not valuable to be a virgin go have sex with an incel

 

[Knight of the Rope]

If it’s not valuable to be a virgin go have sex with an incel

Another post from you that literally doesn't make sense. Incels are virgins, so if "it's not valuable to be a virgin" why would anyone have sex with them? You really have to start reading this shit back to yourself before you click Post Reply, man.

 

[shortstack]

If it’s not valuable to be a virgin go have sex with an incel

Last I checked you guys collectively wanted to murder gay people, so as much as I'd like to oblige, I need some guarantee that he won't kill himself and take a school bus with him before I do the deed.

 

[SideshowBob]

Another post from you that literally doesn't make sense. Incels are virgins, so if "it's not valuable to be a virgin" why would anyone have sex with them? You really have to start reading this shit back to yourself before you click Post Reply, man.

The implication was that lay count doesn’t matter. Outside the internet 20+ bodycount is as shameful as a virgin man. If you can’t close your legs use a chastity lock.

Last I checked you guys collectively wanted to murder gay people, so as much as I'd like to oblige, I need some guarantee that he won't kill himself and take a school bus with him before I do the deed.

Gays Who hate femoids are fine.

 

[Knight of the Rope]

The implication was that lay count doesn’t matter. Outside the internet 20+ bodycount is as shameful as a virgin man.

Only 20? Are you deliberately low-balling that? The true whores (and manwhores) would be insulted by such rookie numbers.

(And no, you'll find that "outside the internet" nobody gives a fuck about any of this.)

If you can’t close your legs use a chastity lock.

Why? So they can earn the 'prize' of an incel's love and attention? Why would they care whether you think they're pure enough? Why would anybody?

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

Like you, right?

A lot of fathers are losers too unfortunately.