In my previous post about the conflict of Kickstarter (affectionately dubbed 'Cuckstarter') versus Comicsgate and their comparative merits, I mentioned throwing in my own two cents, which was that I found it especially egregious for someone on the top to demand dozens of struggling creators and enterprises uphold an embargo on the largest crowdfunding platform upon threat of exclusion. To add a bit of weight to the argument, I went ahead and did a quick tally of Comicsgate campaigns sorted by funding raised and went around posting them on streams as part of an initiative to, uh, promote discussion.
Total Number of CG Projects Launched in 2021: 122
Total Raised for CG Projects Launched in 2021: $2,165,800.24
Put another way, the sizeable majority (65.55%) of Comicsgate campaigns have grossed under $10,000. If, as @Mecha puts it, Comicsgate "is about being able to make money in comics without being cancelled", having to choose between making enough money to stay in business or being cancelled doesn't seem in line with its stated mission.
On a Well Read User stream, Frog took exception to this statistic of majority Comicsgate penury, arguing that results on Kickstarter are the same and challenging myself to make a comparison against Kickstarter crowdfunding. As far as I know, there isn't any comics-specific crowdfund aggregator like CreatorGo for Kickstarter. However, I was able to find this webcrawler that compiles all of Kickstarter's crowdfunds info into a 160 MB text file, filtered out all non-comic campaigns and was left with a spreadsheet where Kickstarter 2021 could be assessed (249 campaigns have been launched in 2021 totalling $4.2M) and compared to Comicsgate 2021 (attached at bottom of post) and an answer to the question of whether it is more profitable for an independent creator to go in either direction
As I suspected, both CG and KS economies look to function under the 80-20 rule, or the Pareto Principle, which I've written about at length here.
Kickstarter is larger than Comicsgate on an almost perfect 2:1 ratio, having both double the number of campaigns and funding raised as well as those results distributed identically
The most significant difference proportionally are Comicsgate campaigns being 10% more likely to cross over the $5000 threshold
While Comicsgate 2021 is almost certainly going to have a smaller take than CG 2020, Kickstarter 2021 is (barring another blockbuster campaign by Boom Studios) also on course to to have a smaller take than 2020 as well. I take this to mean an economic downturn is in effect.
There is some room for positivity though, as even rough equality is an achievement given the number of smaller established publishing houses that have turned to Kickstarter (Antarctic Press, Top Cow, Avatar, Digitalmanga, etc) while the only one in Comicsgate is Frog's All Caps (and Greg Levine's Braintree).
I was watching this on DA's and Vikki's live.
It is kind of a surprise that a boutique funding site (Kickstarter) and it's Off-brand knockoffs (IGG) have similar numbers but I believe it proves that either there is little difference between both sites and it is the creators who drive sales or that IGG is actually better, since less strong brands yield equally good result as recognisable brand names.
I was watching this on DA's and Vikki's live.
It is kind of a surprise that a boutique funding site (Kickstarter) and it's Off-brand knockoffs (IGG) have similar numbers but I believe it proves that either there is little difference between both sites and it is the creators who drive sales or that IGG is actually better, since less strong brands yield equally good result as recognisable brand names.
I don't know about less well known brands. Ethan was talking about this and acting like the Darkness, which debuted after Cyberfrog, is somehow and existing property but AllCaps, Cyberfrog/Creed (been around since the 90s), Earthworm Jim, 90s, aren't I guess.
Even if you look at the next tier. Jon Malin, Marvel/Liefeld artist. Shane Davis, DC artist working with Geoff Johns on GL.
I guess IGG is better for that next to last tier creator to get funded. But what's the upper mobility? How many Gators are moving up the way someone like Tim Lim has over on KS?
“To ask the 'right' question is far more important than to receive the answer. The solution of a problem lies in the understanding of the problem; the answer is not outside the problem, it is in the problem.”
If you zoom out far enough you can see that the real question the people are asking is "How do we get more eyes?"
All this is just moving chains after a botched 4th down from the other end of the field and trying to call it a Touchdown.
Sciverfrog has been spending this entire time telling people they only have the best chance at success with him and it's the Big Lie of CG. This wonderful comparison across both platforms among hundreds of creators shows that EVS' model does not translate to anyone who isn't already a halfway decent professional from the Big Two like himself. That's the one point Doug nailed so well a few days back when he said that if you need Ethan to be a success, you don't have a sustainable business. Success doesn't need to be measured in millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars either. As long as you can make a profit and grab people's attention, that should be good enough to move forward. Too many people who had nothing but Ethan's coattails to ride on were able to make money when they really had no business being there as legitimate creative forces.
EVS sold tons of Cyberfrog books because he was cashing in on a reputation he had already built within the mainstream industry for decades. If Ethan weren't already a name, his new frog run would have had about as much appeal as his original run did. Without a talent scout to pick him up and give him bigger opportunities to prove himself, no one was going to start raving about Cyberfrog. That's why nobody cared about it until he made it about his personal exodus and the daily tard wrangle. It was Ethan's choice to serve up the old discarded junk he had laying around and slap a new gloss of paint on it and sell it to you like a two-bit hustler.
The phenomena that carried so many lesser talents who had no business in the first place to be making their own comics began and ended with Mr. Meyer's rise and fall. Ethan was the icing on the cake, but the real compelling story wasn't his. He tried hard to create his own Meyer-esque tale along the way when it was fashionable, and now many iterations later he's running out of narrative on a downward slope. The way Ethan has been posturing himself, every product has to be a huge hit because he's supposed to know what the customer wants. Reignbow Brute wasn't a megahit and now this toy campaign is barely skating by. I don't think I've ever seen a campaign of his come down to the last day to get funded!
Again, so much of what is a problem with his CF property is immediately evident with the toys. The space hornet is cool but only because from a distance it just looks like a straight up giant insect that you can use to scare unsuspecting girlfriends/wives/small relatives. The main character looks awkward without the fancy reflective metal and busy action scenes to disguise the design. It recalls for me what I can only describe as something Steve Urkel and Kermit the Frog's TMNT cosplaying lovechild might have looked like. Neither one of these look like they belong to the same toy line or even the same property unless it was explicitly pointed out. They don't share visual cues or colors or even stylized proportions. The 80s groupie babe is great but a cartoon metal frog isn't high up on my list as to what she'd look best standing next to unless she was a major Peter, Paul and Mary fan.
No, the money may finally be starting to reflect the slapdash quality of the IP. Let the cope commence!
As for the toys, ,according to Mister Dongs, we're the highest funded campaign across both platforms for 2021, and we're not even 30 days in. $400,000 in a month, with another month of funding to go, and an In Demand period after that...we're going to make high quality action figures.
I've been keeping a close eye on the Frog toy campaign; funding was at an all time low when the campaign was launched and if Comicsgate functioned as a zero-sum economy - that is, the often repeated theory of "big creators" with big platforms sucking up all the oxygen from smaller creators from the collective customer pool. It's one of the most common sources of conflict within Comicsgate as, if accepted as true, "inequality of outcome" logically becomes an onus upon the more successful campaigners as it thus follows that they indirectly responsible for the others that get a smaller piece of the pie, and a moral imperative emerges to make sure that the "worthiest" get a seat at the table. Which in turns necessitates some backstage conspiracy or group to police who gets what. And we all know how that goes at this point. So I'm very interested if this is actually the case or not.
Now, if Comicsgate did function on a zero-sum economic model, Frog running a $400,000 toy campaign in a movement that grossed a $191,589.11 in June and record low $157,257.77 in May would have taken up whatever pie was left. Instead the trendline for non-Frog or Meyer campaigns followed what looks to be a small boom-bust cycle independent of Frog's surge in sales, actually growing from $173.6K to $299.7K in sales from June to July. Either Frog's success actually stimulated sales of other creators, or said other creators' success or failure is independent of the more prominent people. I'm inclined to think it's the latter, but in either case I consider it an effective repudiation of the "zero sum economic model" theory.
I've been keeping a close eye on the Frog toy campaign; funding was at an all time low when the campaign was launched and if Comicsgate functioned as a zero-sum economy (that is, the often repeated theory of "big creators" with big platforms sucking up all the oxygen from smaller creators from the collective customer pool). It's one of the most common source of conflict within Comicsgate as "inequality of outcome" logically becomes an onus upon the more successful campaigners are logically indirectly responsible for the others that get a smaller piece of the pie and a moral imperative emerges to make sure that the "worthiest" get a seat at the table. Which in turns necessitates some backstage conspiracy or group to police who gets what . So I'm very interested if this is actually the case or not.
Now, if Comicsgate did function on a zero-sum economic model, Frog running a $400,000 toy campaign in a movement that grossed a $191,589.11 in June and record low $157,257.77 in May would have taken up whatever pie was left. Instead the trendline for non-Frog or Meyer campaigns followed a small boom-bust cycle independent of Frog's surge in sales, actually growing from $173.6K to $299.7K in sales from June to July. Either Frog's success actually stimulated sales of other creators, or said other creators' success or failure is independent of the more prominent people. I'm inclined to think it's the latter, but in either case I consider it an effective repudation of the "zero sum economic model" theory.
It seems like a traditional tactic for IPs to increase eyes/money has been relentless cross-promotion. The comic would get its cartoon, and its toys, and its shelves full of merchandise. I'd say @FROG is headed in the right direction. He's got his action figures, and the upcoming convention as well. I couldn't say whether there's been a big effort at bringing in the toy community - as far as appearing on toy channels & all that. If not, that would be a big wasted opportunity - but it might also be the type of thing that works better after there are actual, physical toys for the reviewers to handle & talk about. I think there's a fair amount of truth to the old adage that it takes money to make money. Branching out brings in more eyes, but you have to have the prior success to be able to have a shot at broadening your horizons.
We won't have gone full retail until we get a Cyber-Frog coloring book and lunch box, however.
“To ask the 'right' question is far more important than to receive the answer. The solution of a problem lies in the understanding of the problem; the answer is not outside the problem, it is in the problem.”
Frog went on Nicky Rackets for the first time this campaign to shill frog toys, and couldn't make $5K. Nobody outside his circle-jerk cares about cybernetic amphibians it seems. In comparison, Dirtworm Doug went on Rackets for an hour and made over $25K for a $25 book. That could have been as many as a thousand backers (probably much less), EVS got less than 20.
The lesson of this story: Cybernetic Worms > Cybernetic Frogs.
Last time campaign is mentioned 1881 backers after 4 hours of shilling. View attachment 2403923 View attachment 2403925
Unhappy Frog face. Don't worry, Frog, all you have to do is get on a friendly toy based channel like Heels vs Babyface and you're set.
Why? Did I imply that he wouldn't get funded? I was just commenting how people who aren't part of his circle jerk don't care about his toys. He's made more selling to his simps in a half-hour than in 4 hours trying to sell to people who don't know who he is.
Why? Did I imply that he wouldn't get funded? I was just commenting how people who aren't part of his circle jerk don't care about his toys. He's made more selling to his simps in a half-hour than in 4 hours trying to sell to people who don't know who he is.
it did sound like you were implying that he wouldn’t get funded. Rekieta’s people aren’t even comic book fans so yeah, that’s expected. Kinda like how Mike got Shapiro to shout out Lonestar to his fans that knew nothing about comic books. It was simply Ethan just reaching outside of his demographic which he really didn’t need to do because the CG fan base is strong and they support what they like.
It just seems like it's always chasing a slowly dwindling market. I want to see if CoMiCs GaTe can make customers out of uninitiated people, people who have never bought comics. Can Frog convince manga tards to hop on the banned book creators crowdfunding campaigns? He should start going to these anime conventions and see if he can convert people through his church of latter day saints charm.
“To ask the 'right' question is far more important than to receive the answer. The solution of a problem lies in the understanding of the problem; the answer is not outside the problem, it is in the problem.”
If you zoom out far enough you can see that the real question the people are asking is "How do we get more eyes?"
it did sound like you were implying that he wouldn’t get funded. Rekieta’s people aren’t even comic book fans so yeah, that’s expected. Kinda like how Mike got Shapiro to shout out Lonestar to his fans that knew nothing about comic books. It was simply Ethan just reaching outside of his demographic which he really didn’t need to do because the CG fan base is strong and they support what they like.
Seemed kindof simpy. Anyone that thinks Ethan can't fund anything from his crowd is uninformed. Ethan funding isn't the issue. Its whether he can go beyond his Culture Warz clique.
Toys can still be made in the USA. He just wouldn't make the profit. We're talking massively underpaid people in foreign countries. Todd McFarlane's stuff was literal sweatshop.
It just seems like it's always chasing a slowly dwindling market. I want to see if CoMiCs GaTe can make customers out of uninitiated people, people who have never bought comics. Can Frog convince manga tards to hop on the banned book creators crowdfunding campaigns? He should start going to these anime conventions and see if he can convert people through his church of latter day saints charm.
He'll get some because they're crossover Fandom Rejects/Weeb Wars people. The real question. Can he and CG get people to just buy there stuff because its good, not because its fighting the culture war?
Watching Ethan's stream and the KS heresy was brought up again. Malin reiterated his position that he would not promote anyone on his ComicsGate Presents show if they chose to sell their books on Kickstarter, even using the phrase "crossing the picket line". The idea that IGG was intrinsically part of the CG identity came up, with several chatters proclaiming their allegiance in an almost Pavlovian response.
On Vikki and DA's show with Dongs, someone brought up that these big campaign pages never even mention that they're Comicsgate projects. I went over to IGG and searched for the term "Comicsgate". This was the result I got:
This seems really odd for such a diehard CG funding platform. I see a Preston book and JDA. I see Doc Salem and some other shit I've never heard of.
Why isn't Cyberfrog there? Where is Malin's book that got six figures in 24 hours? Why aren't any of the big name CG projects coming up on an IGG search for ComicsGate?
I'll take "Guys who doth protest too much for $200, Alex"
I think we need a new term for users here who pretend to hate a visiting e-celeb, breathlessly tag and harangue him with questions & comments whenever he shows up and then pray that he'll make their day with a response.
Watching Ethan's stream and the KS heresy was brought up again. Malin reiterated his position that he would not promote anyone on his ComicsGate Presents show if they chose to sell their books on Kickstarter, even using the phrase "crossing the picket line". The idea that IGG was intrinsically part of the CG identity came up, with several chatters proclaiming their allegiance in an almost Pavlovian response.
On Vikki and DA's show with Dongs, someone brought up that these big campaign pages never even mention that they're Comicsgate projects. I went over to IGG and searched for the term "Comicsgate". This was the result I got:
This seems really odd for such a diehard CG funding platform. I see a Preston book and JDA. I see Doc Salem and some other shit I've never heard of.
Why isn't Cyberfrog there? Where is Malin's book that got six figures in 24 hours? Why aren't any of the big name CG projects coming up on an IGG search for ComicsGate?
You've heard these values thrown around comicsgate a lot, but I think people have forgotten the core values that started this movement. I just wanted to let you know that I haven't. That's why this company was created. This is our company values:
The customer is first and foremost. You are the fans. It's up to you if the comic universe begins or not, that's why you are our priority. We wanted to create something you enjoy and will want to keep participating in, in future campaigns. It's also why we finished the book first. So you don't have to wait around forever to get your copy.
Politics are a not allowed. Personal politics aren't allowed in our books. We don't care if you are left or right. We care that you find our story entertaining.
We bring you the best quality. We know how frustrating it can be when you buy a comic that looks like someone slopped it out just to get it on the stands. We took our time and now it's fully ready to be sent to you!
That's amazing. Why is Preston of all people doing a better job of educating consumers which projects are "comicsgate"? According to Frog's latest filing in the trademark dispute, you have to go to some 3rd party website to figure it out. ♫ Look for the union labelon creatorgo.com/cg to learn which campaigns some fan has associated with comicsgate...
It's really strange to talk about crossing the picket line like you're part of a union or whathaveyou, and then make no mention of any affliation on the page where you sell your wares.
That's amazing. Why is Preston of all people doing a better job of educating consumers which projects are "comicsgate"? According to Frog's latest filing in the trademark dispute, you have to go to some 3rd party website to figure it out. ♫ Look for the union labelon creatorgo.com/cg, which some fan has associated with comicsgate...
It's really strange to talk about crossing the picket line like you're part of a union or whathaveyou, and then make no mention of any affliation on the page where you sell your wares.
,according to Mister Dongs, we're the highest funded campaign across both platforms for 2021, and we're not even 30 days in. $400,000 in a month, with another month of funding to go, and an In Demand period after that...we're going to make high quality action figures.
I'll take "Guys who doth protest too much for $200, Alex"
Why is Preston of all people doing a better job of educating consumers which projects are "comicsgate"? According to Frog's latest filing in the trademark dispute, you have to go to some 3rd party website to figure it out. ♫ Look for the union label on creatorgo.com/cg to learn which campaigns some fan has associated with comicsgate...
