The Neon Genesis Evangelion Thread - Death & Rebirth & Rebirth & Rebirth & Rebirth & Rebirth & Rebirth & Rebirth...

At least in the last movie, things got better for him and he got something good.
Butthurt Asushin shippers must be going hard on the copium. I know the relationship is played more as a surrogate father/daughter, but with Asuka restored to her proper age, who says they can't behave as adults now and open up to a proper relationship?
Let me guess, /a/ still assmad about 3.0+1.0?
Oh the meltdowns must be LEGENDARY
 
I really loved it.

I get it was kinda messy plot wise but I don't think that was the focus, the character closure was very satisfying.

I didn't mind Mari being the girl in the end, just shows I guess that the one person can sometimes come out of nowhere in a way.

It only works if you keep the whole series as a whole in mind, not just the rebuilds.
 
Butthurt Asushin shippers must be going hard on the copium. I know the relationship is played more as a surrogate father/daughter, but with Asuka restored to her proper age, who says they can't behave as adults now and open up to a proper relationship?

Oh the meltdowns must be LEGENDARY
Asuka’s my favorite character in NGE but it’s for that exact reason I can’t get behind shipping her with Shinji in the Rebuilds. She’s almost an entirely different character here and they don’t have any of the same chemistry they did in NGE, mostly because all of their big moments together were cut out. They don’t even keep her introduction where they get into Unit 2 together so it was kinda doomed from the very beginning. Now that I think of it, the revelation that she's a clone could literally be a metaphor for how she's an inferior copy of the "original" who will always be compared to said "original" and struggle to live up to those expectations.

I think resolving whatever passed for a relationship between them in the Rebuilds with “yeah, I kinda had a crush on you way back when, but we were just dumb kids and we only knew each other for maybe 3 months and it’s been 14 fucking years” is honestly perfectly satisfactory.
 
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I would have been ok if Shinji ended up with Kaworu, they seemed to have actual chemistry in 3. Still, I really dont mind Shinji being with Mari, its a symbol of him moving on from all the eva loop.
 
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I considered writing something of a thorough review for my 2-5AM experience with 3.0+1.0, but reconsidered after I realized that any such review from me would include, in no particular order and in presently un-assessed frequency:

  • What are hell are you talking about?
  • What is that?
  • What the FUCK is that?
    • No seriously, that shit is going to haunt me in my dreams.
  • With what resources could you even begin to make that?
  • What the hell is Mari's purpose?
  • What is even happening?
  • Does the bulk of this plot actually matter?
All of the good parts of this movie were the parts where people just talked with each other without the action mecha fuckery, with the exception of Mari (who's at least a cougar or a GILF... somehow... so she has that going for her), and I actually really liked the dissection of Gendo's personality-- you really get the sense that this is Shinji's father. But I kept asking myself the questions I listed above without being able to come to any conclusion about the underlying symbolic value-- if any-- of much of what I was strongly reacting to. I kept thinking about the possibility that all this frankly aimless action was meant to be some kind of summative critique of something in the industry or in Japanese culture, like Anno's playing a multi-million dollar, multi-year joke at the viewer's expense.

I'm currently at a point where I actually think that there isn't much underlying symbolic value. What really pisses me off about this is that in the original series + EoE, there's certainly a sense of "what the fuck is going on" at some points but when you think through everything you realize that the series is tightly operating on the world that it built over the course of 24 episodes, and new worldbuilding isn't ever shot out rapid-fire without the chance to digest. It's not that big a deal, in the grand scheme, that SEELE created the Mass Production EVA series completely off-screen in EoE. It's a thing, and it's not that big a bolus to swallow in one go, given their purpose later on. Ditto for them being used in the particular way they are to instigate Third Impact. Even the entire Human Instrumentality sequence, for however "what the hell is this" it is, is fine, because the takeaway is "Human Instrumentality is happening". Technobabble that either gets across some detail (e.g. "Asuka's sync ratio is low" is really just a hint about Asuka's declining mental stability) or doesn't mean or impact anything (e.g. most of what's said at the bridge as a matter of routine) is absolutely fine. Even if it's not your focus, the main plot is at bare minimum important for being the delivery vehicle for your themes and messages, so it should get respect.

Even then, I was extremely willing to forgive the movie for being more concerned about its themes and messages compared to its lore and worldbuilding because I recognize that the heart of Evangelion is about commentary/critique on the nature of the self and interpersonal relationships. But being assaulted with so much pure nonsense in so little time, having said nonsense lack cohesion with itself, and having said nonsense be completely unmoored from the aforementioned "core" of Evangelion to the point that it's hardly operating as a vehicle to deliver the themes and messages yet still occupies enough of the runtime and prominence as to be directly implicated in the progression of the story, is all a bridge too far.

I have sympathy for artists that succeed in creating what they want to create, without the fetters of executive meddling or the schizophrenic desires of a fanbase that oftentimes has no idea of what goes into the art as they bear their own myriad hyperfixations. But while I recognize the effort and even heart that went into this finale, as well as some of its good (its simple interpersonal interactions, the music, most of the animation), and while I bet it'll become as much of a cultural icon as the original series and EoE, I couldn't enjoy 3.0+1.0 in total.

To more simply contextualize my viewpoint: I largely agree with Demolition D+'s take on the Rebuilds.
 
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I considered writing something of a thorough review for my 2-5AM experience with 3.0+1.0, but reconsidered after I realized that any such review from me would include, in no particular order and in presently un-assessed frequency:

  • What are hell are you talking about?
  • What is that?
  • What the FUCK is that?
    • No seriously, that shit is going to haunt me in my dreams.
  • With what resources could you even begin to make that?
  • What the hell is Mari's purpose?
  • What is even happening?
  • Does the bulk of this plot actually matter?
All of the good parts of this movie were the parts where people just talked with each other without the action mecha fuckery, with the exception of Mari (who's at least a cougar or a GILF... somehow... so she has that going for her), and I actually really liked the dissection of Gendo's personality-- you really get the sense that this is Shinji's father. But I kept asking myself the questions I listed above without being able to come to any conclusion about the underlying symbolic value-- if any-- of much of what I was strongly reacting to. I kept thinking about the possibility that all this frankly aimless action was meant to be some kind of summative critique of something in the industry or in Japanese culture, like Anno's playing a multi-million dollar, multi-year joke at the viewer's expense.

I'm currently at a point where I actually think that there isn't much underlying symbolic value. What really pisses me off about this is that in the original series + EoE, there's certainly a sense of "what the fuck is going on" at some points but when you think through everything you realize that the series is tightly operating on the world that it built over the course of 24 episodes, and new worldbuilding isn't ever shot out rapid-fire without the chance to digest. It's not that big a deal, in the grand scheme, that SEELE created the Mass Production EVA series completely off-screen in EoE. It's a thing, and it's not that big a bolus to swallow in one go, given their purpose later on. Ditto for them being used in the particular way they are to instigate Third Impact. Even the entire Human Instrumentality sequence, for however "what the hell is this" it is, is fine, because the takeaway is "Human Instrumentality is happening". Technobabble that either gets across some detail (e.g. "Asuka's sync ratio is low" is really just a hint about Asuka's declining mental stability) or doesn't mean or impact anything (e.g. most of what's said at the bridge as a matter of routine) is absolutely fine. Even if it's not your focus, the main plot is at bare minimum important for being the delivery vehicle for your themes and messages, so it should get respect.

Even then, I was extremely willing to forgive the movie for being more concerned about its themes and messages compared to its lore and worldbuilding because I recognize that the heart of Evangelion is about commentary/critique on the nature of the self and interpersonal relationships. But being assaulted with so much pure nonsense in so little time, having said nonsense lack cohesion with itself, and having said nonsense be completely unmoored from the aforementioned "core" of Evangelion to the point that it's hardly operating as a vehicle to deliver the themes and messages yet still occupy enough of the runtime and prominence as to be directly implicated in the progression of the story, is all a bridge too far.

I have sympathy for artists that succeed in creating what they want to create, without the fetters of executive meddling or the schizophrenic desires of a fanbase that oftentimes has no idea of what goes into the art and has their own fixations. But while I recognize the effort and even heart that went into this finale, as well as some of its good (its simple interpersonal interactions, the music, most of the animation), and while I bet it'll become as much of a cultural icon as the original series and EoE, I couldn't enjoy 3.0+1.0 in total.

To more simply contextualize my viewpoint: I largely agree with Demolition D+'s take on the Rebuilds.
I almost feel like the Rebuilds are a victim of their own financial success. Evangelion and EoE were largely limited by their budget and production, and a lot of stuff was left barebones with the interpersonal stuff front and center because they didn't HAVE the money to do much else, so they had to make what they had count. Especially with 3.0+1.0 there's so much fluff that, as you say, has literally nothing to do with the core plot and themes.
 
I considered writing something of a thorough review for my 2-5AM experience with 3.0+1.0, but reconsidered after I realized that any such review from me would include, in no particular order and in presently un-assessed frequency:

  • What are hell are you talking about?
  • What is that?
  • What the FUCK is that?
    • No seriously, that shit is going to haunt me in my dreams.
  • With what resources could you even begin to make that?
  • What the hell is Mari's purpose?
  • What is even happening?
  • Does the bulk of this plot actually matter?
All of the good parts of this movie were the parts where people just talked with each other without the action mecha fuckery, with the exception of Mari (who's at least a cougar or a GILF... somehow... so she has that going for her), and I actually really liked the dissection of Gendo's personality-- you really get the sense that this is Shinji's father. But I kept asking myself the questions I listed above without being able to come to any conclusion about the underlying symbolic value-- if any-- of much of what I was strongly reacting to. I kept thinking about the possibility that all this frankly aimless action was meant to be some kind of summative critique of something in the industry or in Japanese culture, like Anno's playing a multi-million dollar, multi-year joke at the viewer's expense.

I'm currently at a point where I actually think that there isn't much underlying symbolic value. What really pisses me off about this is that in the original series + EoE, there's certainly a sense of "what the fuck is going on" at some points but when you think through everything you realize that the series is tightly operating on the world that it built over the course of 24 episodes, and new worldbuilding isn't ever shot out rapid-fire without the chance to digest. It's not that big a deal, in the grand scheme, that SEELE created the Mass Production EVA series completely off-screen in EoE. It's a thing, and it's not that big a bolus to swallow in one go, given their purpose later on. Ditto for them being used in the particular way they are to instigate Third Impact. Even the entire Human Instrumentality sequence is fine, because the takeaway is "Human Instrumentality is happening". Even if it's not your focus, the main plot is at bare minimum important for being the delivery vehicle for your themes and messages, so it should get respect.

Even then, I was extremely willing to forgive the movie for being more concerned about its themes and messages compared to its lore and worldbuilding because I recognize that the heart of Evangelion is about commentary/critique on the nature of the self and interpersonal relationships. But being assaulted with so much pure nonsense in so little time, having said nonsense lack cohesion with itself, and having said nonsense be completely unmoored from the aforementioned "core" of Evangelion to the point that it's hardly operating as a vehicle to deliver the themes and messages, is all bridge too far and makes me feel like most of the movie was completely unnecessary yet extremely expensive filler. Sābisu, you could call it.

I have sympathy for artists that succeed in creating what they want to create, without the fetters of executive meddling or the schizophrenic desires of a fanbase that oftentimes has no idea of what goes into the art and has their own fixations. But while I recognize the effort and even heart that went into this finale, as well as some of its good (its simple interpersonal interactions, the music, most of the animation), and while I bet it'll become as much of a cultural icon as the original series and EoE, I couldn't enjoy 3.0+1.0 in total.

To more simply contextualize my viewpoint: I largely agree with Demolition D+'s take on the Rebuilds.

The thing about EoE is that its setup is very simple and arguably logical - once all the Angels are destroyed, SEELE turns against NERV in order to instigate Third Impact, manipulating the JSSDF into assaulting the Geofront and throwing their ace in the hole (Mass Production EVAs) into it at the same time. It makes a lot of sense for the world, and seeing the place getting assaulted by tanks, VTOLs and warships was a thoroughly entertaining experience.

With Rebuild, all that is supposed to have happened around the gap in 2.0 and 3.0. You can see a pile of tanks lying around among other things that may suggest that a similar assault took place, but without seeing it the jump from Evangelions to Wünder and its floating battleship barriers/missiles and millions of Evangelions being manufactured for the final showdown is huge.
 
I watched it yesterday. I slept on it and I still think it's hit garbage. Maybe I already knew what would happen regarding the end with Shinji and Mari bit I was hoping the movie would surprise me positively.

Unfortunately the movie is a mess.
Animation: when it's drawn animation the movie can look great at times and some scenes with 3d can look cool like Mari and Asuka fighting a spiral of million evas, otherwise in the Gendo and Shinii fight I had a feeling I was looking at Katamari Damacy video or a cheap Tencent mobile game. Instrumentality looked ridiculously bad. It had a very long space ship fight which in my opinion has no place in Evangelion even since 3.0 and took very valuable time from this movie to develop characters.
The Instrumentality looked embarrassing.

Story: This movie is the king of Macguffins since every minute a new one is introduced by Fuyutsuki. It made me think about even tho original NGE had complicated lore, the biggest twist was simple - that the children can pilot the evas because their moms are incorporated or absorbed in them. Here, no one really knows why. Why can Mari pilot Unit 2? Why can Mari turn berserk? Why did we not get a backstory about Mari, but just a few snapshots from Gendos memory that we already knew from the manga?
The village segment was nice but in my opinion it was drawn out for too long. More time should have been given to Misatos and Shinji reconciliation.
Rei's development in the village was scrapped by her head popping.
Asukas development has been terrible in this entire Rebuild series, only crowned by the realization that she's not even a person, she's just a clone + angel. She has a cool scene where she transforms but gets anihilated shortly after, it looked cool but it didnt feel entertaining, and i felt nothing for her demise.
Gendo and Shinji: I guess them reconciling was a good moment, but Gendo is still the worst father since it took him 28 years to realize his son is a connection to his wife? I think in NGE he knew this but he was still determined to get Yui back no matter what.
Shinji did 2 genocides but whatever here's your happy ending. Evangelion You Can (Not) Redo, more like Evangelion You Can Redo everything without evangelions! Now everyone is happy yay!

There should have been a scene as a closure for the characters after the train scene or before it, since this movie explored other characters other than Shinji, I felt like it wasn't enough just to see him get a "good" ending.
And there are no consequences to this ending either, everything seems perfect. In EOE Shinji did improve on himself made realizations, but the road to achieving happiness is a long one that cannot fit into a movie, that's why it ended on the beach with Asuka.

Which is why 4.0 dissapointed me. It is made for a modern audience, the impatient ones, the short attention span youth. Instead of having cryptic internal monologues with which one can find themselves in, it has a low risk - high reward ending crammed with everything the modern anime fans want: fanservice and cool action scenes!
 
I watched it yesterday. I slept on it and I still think it's hit garbage. Maybe I already knew what would happen regarding the end with Shinji and Mari bit I was hoping the movie would surprise me positively.

Unfortunately the movie is a mess.
Animation: when it's drawn animation the movie can look great at times and some scenes with 3d can look cool like Mari and Asuka fighting a spiral of million evas, otherwise in the Gendo and Shinii fight I had a feeling I was looking at Katamari Damacy video or a cheap Tencent mobile game. Instrumentality looked ridiculously bad. It had a very long space ship fight which in my opinion has no place in Evangelion even since 3.0 and took very valuable time from this movie to develop characters.
The Instrumentality looked embarrassing.

Story: This movie is the king of Macguffins since every minute a new one is introduced by Fuyutsuki. It made me think about even tho original NGE had complicated lore, the biggest twist was simple - that the children can pilot the evas because their moms are incorporated or absorbed in them. Here, no one really knows why. Why can Mari pilot Unit 2? Why can Mari turn berserk? Why did we not get a backstory about Mari, but just a few snapshots from Gendos memory that we already knew from the manga?
The village segment was nice but in my opinion it was drawn out for too long. More time should have been given to Misatos and Shinji reconciliation.
Rei's development in the village was scrapped by her head popping.
Asukas development has been terrible in this entire Rebuild series, only crowned by the realization that she's not even a person, she's just a clone + angel. She has a cool scene where she transforms but gets anihilated shortly after, it looked cool but it didnt feel entertaining, and i felt nothing for her demise.
Gendo and Shinji: I guess them reconciling was a good moment, but Gendo is still the worst father since it took him 28 years to realize his son is a connection to his wife? I think in NGE he knew this but he was still determined to get Yui back no matter what.
Shinji did 2 genocides but whatever here's your happy ending. Evangelion You Can (Not) Redo, more like Evangelion You Can Redo everything without evangelions! Now everyone is happy yay!

There should have been a scene as a closure for the characters after the train scene or before it, since this movie explored other characters other than Shinji, I felt like it wasn't enough just to see him get a "good" ending.
And there are no consequences to this ending either, everything seems perfect. In EOE Shinji did improve on himself made realizations, but the road to achieving happiness is a long one that cannot fit into a movie, that's why it ended on the beach with Asuka.

Which is why 4.0 dissapointed me. It is made for a modern audience, the impatient ones, the short attention span youth. Instead of having cryptic internal monologues with which one can find themselves in, it has a low risk - high reward ending crammed with everything the modern anime fans want: fanservice and cool action scenes!
Note to anyone creating new media nowadays, aim for the original audience, never the nu-audience.

The Rebuilds sit on a weird pedestal. On one hand, the entire rebuilds feel like the 343-Halo trilogy where the creators create a new entry to a franchise that was already concluded at its peak to create a new storyline but fumbles in many ways, some acceptable (Halo 4 and maybe the first Rebuild film) and others outright lambasted to hell (Halo 5 and 3.333). On the other hand, they feel like the Dark Souls series where the creators are tired of the fanbase and want to end the series regardless of the direction it goes to end with, hence why the rather bittersweet reception aimed towards Dark Souls III and 3.0+1.0.
 
I'm really starting to question why have Shinji be the one to cause all that death and destruction (albeit unknowingly) when all it did was make his redemption seem harder to swallow for most people?

It really shows a problem I have with Anno's writing. He gets so caught up in cramming his meta-narrative and themes down the viewer's throat to make sure that he doesn't stop to think if this will actually gel with how the story and characters are being developed.
 
Note to anyone creating new media nowadays, aim for the original audience, never the nu-audience.

The Rebuilds sit on a weird pedestal. On one hand, the entire rebuilds feel like the 343-Halo trilogy where the creators create a new entry to a franchise that was already concluded at its peak to create a new storyline but fumbles in many ways, some acceptable (Halo 4 and maybe the first Rebuild film) and others outright lambasted to hell (Halo 5 and 3.333). On the other hand, they feel like the Dark Souls series where the creators are tired of the fanbase and want to end the series regardless of the direction it goes to end with, hence why the rather bittersweet reception aimed towards Dark Souls III and 3.0+1.0.
I feel like the mixed reception is mostly in the West. When the movie came out in Japan back in March, the reception was overwhelmingly positive (though, to be fair I wasn’t exactly keeping up with Japanese Twitter in the weeks and months after it’s release so it could’ve easily turned more bittersweet/mixed after that). However the reception among the English-speaking audience has been very much 50/50.
 
I kept waiting for Yui's soul to awaken and Unit 01 and 13 to have the epic fight of epicness you know like how the trailer heavily implied was gonna happen but expectations subverted lol 01 and 13 have the lamest most badly animated fight ever
 
I'm currently at a point where I actually think that there isn't much underlying symbolic value.
The next step is realizing that there never was, not even in the original TV series. It was just a blank slate for people to project meaning onto, coming along at just the right time for such a thing.
 
Just watched 3.0 + 1.0, I thought it was shit. Not that I had high hopes for it after 3.0 anyway but what a sad end to a series that took 14 years to complete. The action scenes were way over the top and utterly pointless, they were all flash with no substance. Compare the ludicrously long intro that has virtually nothing to do with the rest of the movie with the fight scene in EoE where they put a huge amount of effort making Asukas fight feel weighty and real.

The best part of the movie was the part with the three pilots living in the small village. Anything to do with Wille or the Wunder is garbage.

Anno should've just stuck to the original plan and just updated the series rather than deciding to spin it off half way through and make it a love letter to his past works.
 
It was a disappointing sequel wasting time that could be used on the state of the world and storyline from the 3 other movies to focus on metasequel to earlier parts of the franchise.

I am sure not even anno was satisfied with it but didn't had the time to make it better as we can see in the docs and interviews. I am sad that the best fight scenes were available what, 3 years ago and everything that came after was disappointing.

It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good, I rank the movies in this order: 2.0 > 3.0 > 3.0 + 1.0 > 1.0


Anno should've just stuck to the original plan and just updated the series rather than deciding to spin it off half way through and make it a love letter to his past works.
the original plan was always to have different third and fourth movies, the divide between only happened earlier and not even by much (2.0)
 
In the Shinji Ikari Raising Project manga, Mana got a more active role:

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And poor Kensuke. "Why does everything, everything EVERYTHING have to be about Ikari!?!

At least in the last movie, things got better for him and he got something good.
Mana is without any doubt the best eva girl and the best girl for Shinji.

Also, in ANIMA, Kensuke trades information of Unit 02 for the germans for information about seele and shit, causing Kaji to put the keel visor and get hacked and becoming the new seele. All caused because of his incapacity to pilot an eva when hikari, touji and every single friend he had could.

What a sad life, kenken
 
Mana is without any doubt the best eva girl and the best girl for Shinji.

Also, in ANIMA, Kensuke trades information of Unit 02 for the germans for information about seele and shit, causing Kaji to put the keel visor and get hacked and becoming the new seele. All caused because of his incapacity to pilot an eva when hikari, touji and every single friend he had could.

What a sad life, kenken
I’ve read summaries of Anima and it sounds fucking retarded.

Shinji Ikari Raising Project is basically To Love Ru but with Shinji and the Eva girls, e.g. the story revolves entirely around Shinji stumbling his way into progressively more sexual situations with a vague excuse of a plot going on in the background. I’m very hesitant to call it “good”, but as long as you aren’t reading it expecting any sort of story progression it’s dumb fun.
 
I’ve read summaries of Anima and it sounds fucking retarded.

Shinji Ikari Raising Project is basically To Love Ru but with Shinji and the Eva girls, e.g. the story revolves entirely around Shinji stumbling his way into progressively more sexual situations with a vague excuse of a plot going on in the background. I’m very hesitant to call it “good”, but as long as you aren’t reading it expecting any sort of story progression it’s dumb fun.
ANIMA is more similar to the rebuilds than anything, it is a mixture of hard scifi with evangelion and scifi concepts only seen in the last eva movie.

It is a fun read, the most funny thing is that the events of EoE never happened as the movie because Shinji was too competent in that cycle, so asuka was used but shinji managed to save her. The characters act more mature so it may be seen as they act OOC, but it isn't.

ANIMA is more for mechafans than animefans in the end, I am really enjoying reading it.
 
Kaworu's interest in Shinji is played more in the Shinji Ikari Raising Project manga:
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And with that statement, Asuka is gonna be cancelled
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Some more stuff with Mana:
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And Maya's interest with Ritsuko is also played
 
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