Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Lord of the Large Pants]

I'm not even an Incel or TERF, what the hell is with you people and your fucked up parents and childhood? Am I am only person on this site with normal fucking parents!

Not everybody turns out like their parents. My parents were honest, hard working people.

 

[Ishtar]

Incels wouldn't exist if:

There was legalized prostitution.
There weren't ridiculous expectations that every man get laid by 30.

That puts extreme pressure on young men that many of them just can't handle. Especially the ones that don't have top notch social skills or aren't the best looking. In a healthier society, they'd have other options for self actualization and meaningfully contributing to society, whether that be as soldiers, priests, monks, or tradesmen. But being corporate drone 477272 doesn't afford much in the way of self respect or societal respect.

Part of the issue is our society has no way of defining worth or achievement, outside of one's job except through sex. Not say writing a book, or going on pilgrimage, or surviving in the woods by your wits alone. In pre industrial society-there were rites of passage into adulthood and manhood, now we have an extended period of adolescence going into one's late twenties.

Where young men have jobs and pay taxes and aren't under mommy and daddy's roof, but aren't "men" in the sense they are accorded the respect and responsibilities that moniker used to mean. So "getting laid" is a substitute for passage into adulthood. So if your a twenty five year old guy out of grad school, not the best looking, few to no real friends, doesn't matter if your going to land a great job, there are 100 million other people who have done the same, doesn't matter if you have traveled, 60 million have done that, no you've got to be gettin laid to show you really have emerged out of being a boy.

I can not begin to describe how sick this is. That said, its a symptom of a society that has no meaning outside of pleasure seeking, not a cause. Sex thus being a sign of achievement and status is advanced degeneracy.

 

[Protistology]

Incels wouldn't exist if:

There was legalized prostitution.
There weren't ridiculous expectations that every man get laid by 30.

That puts extreme pressure on young men that many of them just can't handle. Especially the ones that don't have top notch social skills or aren't the best looking. In a healthier society, they'd have other options for self actualization and meaningfully contributing to society, whether that be as soldiers, priests, monks, or tradesmen. But being corporate drone 477272 doesn't afford much in the way of self respect or societal respect.

Part of the issue is our society has no way of defining worth or achievement, outside of one's job except through sex. Not say writing a book, or going on pilgrimage, or surviving in the woods by your wits alone. In pre industrial society-there were rites of passage into adulthood and manhood, now we have an extended period of adolescence going into one's late twenties.

Where young men have jobs and pay taxes and aren't under mommy and daddy's roof, but aren't "men" in the sense they are accorded the respect and responsibilities that moniker used to mean. So "getting laid" is a substitute for passage into adulthood. So if your a twenty five year old guy out of grad school, not the best looking, few to no real friends, doesn't matter if your going to land a great job, there are 100 million other people who have done the same, doesn't matter if you have traveled, 60 million have done that, no you've got to be gettin laid to show you really have emerged out of being a boy.

I can not begin to describe how sick this is. That said, its a symptom of a society that has no meaning outside of pleasure seeking, not a cause. Sex thus being a sign of achievement and status is advanced degeneracy.

When Zoomers mock Newton and Tesla for dying virgins it's a sign Rome is falling.

 

[Ishtar]

When Zoomers mock Newton and Tesla for dying virgins it's a sign Rome is falling.

Did Newton and Tesla face social censure or mockery for not getting laid? Unless I'm mistaken, this whole expectation that getting laid=meaningful achievement and status is a relatively recent phenomena.

But yes, it is a sign of civilizational decline.

 

[♦️ King of Diamonds ♦️]

What would be a better field to further my Education in: Cybersecurity or the TEFL biz?

 

[Never Scored]

There was legalized prostitution.

Incels still exist in countries where prostitution is is legal. The kind of man who's going to be an incel is the kind of man who's too timid to go to a prostitute.

Part of the issue is our society has no way of defining worth or achievement, outside of one's job except through sex. Not say writing a book, or going on pilgrimage, or surviving in the woods by your wits alone. In pre industrial society-there were rites of passage into adulthood and manhood, now we have an extended period of adolescence going into one's late twenties.

Bro, are you seriously trying to argue in 2021, when it's totally socially acceptable not to have kids, people are more defined by sex than they were years ago when a guy who didn't get married and have kids was a weirdo? What universe are you living in? It's more socially acceptable to be gay or trans or poly or whatever than it was, but if you were an adult who didn't get married and have children by your late 20s/early 30s as late as the 1990s you would have been considered odd. How is that not defining worth through sex? You have to have sex to have a family.

If anything it's more acceptable than it ever has been to define yourself by, say, writing a book.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're under 30 here.

Where young men have jobs and pay taxes and aren't under mommy and daddy's roof, but aren't "men" in the sense they are accorded the respect and responsibilities that moniker used to mean. So "getting laid" is a substitute for passage into adulthood. So if your a twenty five year old guy out of grad school, not the best looking, few to no real friends, doesn't matter if your going to land a great job, there are 100 million other people who have done the same, doesn't matter if you have traveled, 60 million have done that, no you've got to be gettin laid to show you really have emerged out of being a boy.

How are people going to know you didn't get laid? It's not unusual for an adult man to not talk openly about his sexual exploits even when he's not a virgin. It is common in your late teens/early twenties, but most people view that as a sign of immaturity. By 25-30 most people look down on men who just constantly talk about getting their dick wet. How are his coworkers going to know he's a virgin? How are the people in his community going to know he's a virgin? I'm pretty sure the only one that views our theoretical guy who has a job and went to grad school and travels as not being a man is the guy himself because incels put having sex up on a pedestal more than anyone.

 

[Knight of the Rope]

How are his coworkers going to know he's a virgin? How are the people in his community going to know he's a virgin?

This, 100%. It is literally the incel's biggest issue, and it's a completely imaginary issue that they've deluded themselves into thinking matters.

Here's the biggest blackpill (and whitepill) ever for you incels: Nobody out in the world thinks about you. At all. Even when you think they do, they don't.

Your coworkers? They're busy with their own lives. If they're married they probably just assume that you're also partnered up, and that is the full extent of that thought process. They won't give it any more thought than that. Sure, you never mention having a partner and they'd probably notice that they've never seen you with anyone if they stopped to think about it for a second (Hint: but they won't think about it; see previous paragraph). But even then, they're not going to care either way. If anything, they're glad that you seem to be able to separate work from your personal problems. They probably think of you favorably, compared to the jackasses that put their relationship and family issues on full display for everyone to see. Sure, it's sometimes fun to commiserate with ol' Julie when she starts bitching about her private life problems, but nobody respects her for bringing that shit up when you're all just trying to sort these spreadsheets and clock out. They've got their own problems, and they all resent her trying to make her problems part of everyone else's problems too.

Your friends? Sure, they might actually notice and comment. Depending on how baffled they are they might even try to match you up with people in their extended friends group. (This is a good thing by the way. It's how most of us old fuddies got together with new people back before you whippersnappers came along with your Tinder and your Snapchat and your Discord and chill tomfoolery.) But even if they do this, that's the entire extent to which they'll care about your 'problem'. They think they'll do a solid for a friend, and then they move immediately onto the next thought, e.g. what they'll cook for dinner, or why their car seems to be making a weird clicking noise lately. They're not thinking about you at all. And none of their fleeting thoughts about you, even the suspicious/embarrassing ones, stick around long enough to be malicious or worth taking to heart. "Hey, do you reckon X ever gets laid?" "Nope, never see him with a chick. Ah well. Hey, what pizzas do we all want? I'm doing a food run before the game starts."

Your community? Please, you'll be lucky if they even remember your name when they see you around. You're literally just "that guy" to most of them. You're that 'vaguely humanoid shape' that says Hi to them sometimes on their morning commute, or that jackass that always cuts them off on the freeway. For better and worse, they don't give a fuck about you. 99% of them would have trouble describing you to a police sketcher. They're not thinking about you at all. They are certainly not going to waste any time thinking about your love life. In exactly the same way that you don't waste time thinking about theirs. (Try to recall the last time you bought groceries for instance. When you saw the guy at the checkout, were you thinking about how much pussy he's surely missing out on because what chick would be interested in a grown-ass man working checkout? Or were you thinking that he's scanning your items really slow, like what is this, 'bring-the-retard-to-work day' or something, doesn't he realize you've got other shit to do today and can he hurry the fuck up please? Think back. Was that checkout guy a fully 3-dimensional person in your mind during that interaction? Or was he a 1-dimensional character, a cartoon caricature of a human being that exists only to scan and bag your items, and he stopped existing to your mind the second you got back into your car? The second one, right? Well, spoiler alert: that's how everyone else in your community sees you, too.)

That chick you finally managed to invite back to your place and got naked? She's not even thinking about you. If you mentioned you were a virgin she might have gotten a little weird about it (but probably only because the type of person that announces that they're a virgin before a lay is usually pretty weird about it themselves. For real, why the fuck would you even announce this?). If you didn't mention that you're a virgin she's probably not even going to notice. You're likely not going to fumble any more than someone moderately experienced would: after all, you both (presumably) like each other and haven't had sex with each other yet, so you're both going to be fumbling awkwardly as you get a feel for one another's bodies. You're not going to remember her fumbles. And she's not going to notice yours; she's too worried about more pressing concerns like whether she's getting a little flabby, but she checked the mirror and she looked alright but then aren't there medical conditions like anorexia that trick your brain into seeing things in the mirror that aren't reality, so oh god what if she's actually a lardass and just delusional about it? And also that seafood you two had at the restaurant didn't agree with her and is it kind of gross to be having sex when she's this gassy? And...

So why is all of this a whitepill? Because it's liberating as fuck when you fully internalize this. Nobody gives a fuck about you, and even the ones that do are mostly phoning it in 99% of the time. So you're free to literally do whatever the hell you want, confident in the knowledge that literally everyone that's not you couldn't care less. Within reason of course (y'know, don't fail so hard at life that you wind up with a thread here would be my advice), but there's much more leeway than you guys seem to think.

 

[Sandraker]

@Knight of the Rope

Hit the nail on the head.

On day to day bases to everyone else you're a fucking nobody and at most a passing thought. Its really no problem with that at all.

These type of guys get caught up in the romanticized version of life where things happen to them rather than them going out there with a clear mind and making something out of life themselves. Its like a type of laziness fueled by depression, but reinforced by modern standards cause "its ok to be sad" pampering which will have you on some antidepressants that dont do anything for you long term.

Your ideal version of life won't happen. Nothing just straight up falls 100% in place so you shouldn't wallow in self pity or watch endless self help videos thinking you're making progress. Clean yourself up go out and work for it.

 

[SideshowBob]

@Knight of the Rope

Hit the nail on the head.

On day to day bases to everyone else you're a fucking nobody and at most a passing thought. Its really no problem with that at all.

These type of guys get caught up in the romanticized version of life where things happen to them rather than them going out there with a clear mind and making something out of life themselves. Its like a type of laziness fueled by depression, but reinforced by modern standards cause "its ok to be sad" pampering which will have you on some antidepressants that dont do anything for you long term.

Your ideal version of life won't happen. Nothing just straight up falls 100% in place so you shouldn't wallow in self pity or watch endless self help videos thinking you're making progress. Clean yourself up go out and work for it.

 

[Never Scored]

View attachment 2538043

Yeah, OK. Everyone is either an incel or a soyboy. Cool.

Get off the internet, faggot. Troons are only an issue if you're perpetually online, they're less than 1% of the total population. Onlyfans has around a million content creators. Even if they're all in the US, and they're all unique(they're not), you're talking about 0.003% of the US population being Onlyfans creators. These things vanish for all practical intents and purposes if you turn off the computer. Honest to god, fuck right off with this shit.

 

[SideshowBob]

Yeah, OK. Everyone is either an incel or a soyboy. Cool.

Get off the internet, faggot. Troons are only an issue if you're perpetually online, they're less than 1% of the total population. Onlyfans has around a million content creators. Even if they're all in the US, and they're all unique(they're not), you're talking about 0.003% of the US population being Onlyfans creators. These things vanish for all practical intents and purposes if you turn off the computer. Honest to god, fuck right off with this shit.

View attachment 2538394

Thanks for advice I’m perfectly content seeing you work all your life to impress and defend your queens. In fact isn’t it time you got to work.. you’ve already been online 20 whole minutes.

 

[Knight of the Rope]

Hey @WillToMonke remember that time you tried to convince us with a study that said roughly 27% of men under 30 hadn't had sex since 18, but then you check their source and it says that the 27% was for people who hadn't had sex in the last 365 days instead? That was a fucking embarrassing gaffe and I'm not going to let you live it down.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

Incels wouldn't exist if:

There was legalized prostitution.
There weren't ridiculous expectations that every man get laid by 30.

At your most conservative, we're talking a twelve year stretch to get laid if you want to get laid. Even Doctors and Lawyers don't take that long to figure something out at that rate and especially not in their physical and mental prime.

 

[Protistology]

At your most conservative, we're talking a twelve year stretch to get laid if you want to get laid. Even Doctors and Lawyers don't take that long to figure something out at that rate and especially not in their physical and mental prime.

Surgeons aren't finished with their training and internships until they're 32 at the youngest.

 

[Never Scored]

Thanks for advice I’m perfectly content seeing you work all your life to impress and defend your queens. In fact isn’t it time you got to work.. you’ve already been online 20 whole minutes.
View attachment 2538648

Are you even speaking fucking english?

 

[emptyblu]

Society places way too much value on a mans sex life, both men and women are guilty of “virgin shaming” and you have insecure young men who probably weird girls out with their lack of social skills who then in return, internalize these statements and believe they’re worthless if they don’t fuck 50 women daily.

This might be an unpopular opinion but I do somewhat sympathize with them in that regard, not necessarily the incels who want to shoot women, but the socially awkward kids who are punished for being well..socially awkward kids. I’m sure all the men and women who brag about their conquests were once awkward virgins who had bad experiences with the opposite sex too, not everybody is a Casanova type womanizer and that’s ok.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

Surgeons aren't finished with their training and internships until they're 32 at the youngest.

I'll admit I had no clue about that much time being put into it. Either way, I would hope that the ability to develop the social grace necessary to pick up a mate wouldn't entail nearly such effort.

 

[Never Scored]

Society places way too much value on a mans sex life, both men and women are guilty of “virgin shaming” and you have insecure young men who probably weird girls out with their lack of social skills who then in return, internalize these statements and believe they’re worthless if they don’t fuck 50 women daily.

This might be an unpopular opinion but I do somewhat sympathize with them in that regard, not necessarily the incels who want to shoot women, but the socially awkward kids who are punished for being well..socially awkward kids. I’m sure all the men and women who brag about their conquests were once awkward virgins who had bad experiences with the opposite sex too, not everybody is a Casanova type womanizer and that’s ok.

I don't think most people have any issue with people who are just socially awkward. However, there are people in this thread who clearly do not live in reality and think the worst bullshit they see on the internet is normal. At some point you really do need to go out and interact with people, and I don't even mean sexually.

Like, I'm going outside and looking up at the sky and it's blue, and they're staying inside where they can't even see the sky and telling over the internet the sky is purple and the thing I can observe myself is not true nor possible. The same song and dance over and over. They say something and I can observe it is not true. I point out that it's not true because I can observe that it is not. Cue meme of roast beef or meltdown that's so over the top, I'm not sure if it's a troll or not. It's very strange and dystopian and I think that's what people find so off putting about the incel movement.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

This, 100%. It is literally the incel's biggest issue, and it's a completely imaginary issue that they've deluded themselves into thinking matters.

Here's the biggest blackpill (and whitepill) ever for you incels: Nobody out in the world thinks about you. At all. Even when you think they do, they don't.

Your coworkers? They're busy with their own lives. If they're married they probably just assume that you're also partnered up, and that is the full extent of that thought process. They won't give it any more thought than that. Sure, you never mention having a partner and they'd probably notice that they've never seen you with anyone if they stopped to think about it for a second (Hint: but they won't think about it; see previous paragraph). But even then, they're not going to care either way. If anything, they're glad that you seem to be able to separate work from your personal problems. They probably think of you favorably, compared to the jackasses that put their relationship and family issues on full display for everyone to see. Sure, it's sometimes fun to commiserate with ol' Julie when she starts bitching about her private life problems, but nobody respects her for bringing that shit up when you're all just trying to sort these spreadsheets and clock out. They've got their own problems, and they all resent her trying to make her problems part of everyone else's problems too.

Your friends? Sure, they might actually notice and comment. Depending on how baffled they are they might even try to match you up with people in their extended friends group. (This is a good thing by the way. It's how most of us old fuddies got together with new people back before you whippersnappers came along with your Tinder and your Snapchat and your Discord and chill tomfoolery.) But even if they do this, that's the entire extent to which they'll care about your 'problem'. They think they'll do a solid for a friend, and then they move immediately onto the next thought, e.g. what they'll cook for dinner, or why their car seems to be making a weird clicking noise lately. They're not thinking about you at all. And none of their fleeting thoughts about you, even the suspicious/embarrassing ones, stick around long enough to be malicious or worth taking to heart. "Hey, do you reckon X ever gets laid?" "Nope, never see him with a chick. Ah well. Hey, what pizzas do we all want? I'm doing a food run before the game starts."

Your community? Please, you'll be lucky if they even remember your name when they see you around. You're literally just "that guy" to most of them. You're that 'vaguely humanoid shape' that says Hi to them sometimes on their morning commute, or that jackass that always cuts them off on the freeway. For better and worse, they don't give a fuck about you. 99% of them would have trouble describing you to a police sketcher. They're not thinking about you at all. They are certainly not going to waste any time thinking about your love life. In exactly the same way that you don't waste time thinking about theirs. (Try to recall the last time you bought groceries for instance. When you saw the guy at the checkout, were you thinking about how much pussy he's surely missing out on because what chick would be interested in a grown-ass man working checkout? Or were you thinking that he's scanning your items really slow, like what is this, 'bring-the-retard-to-work day' or something, doesn't he realize you've got other shit to do today and can he hurry the fuck up please? Think back. Was that checkout guy a fully 3-dimensional person in your mind during that interaction? Or was he a 1-dimensional character, a cartoon caricature of a human being that exists only to scan and bag your items, and he stopped existing to your mind the second you got back into your car? The second one, right? Well, spoiler alert: that's how everyone else in your community sees you, too.)

That chick you finally managed to invite back to your place and got naked? She's not even thinking about you. If you mentioned you were a virgin she might have gotten a little weird about it (but probably only because the type of person that announces that they're a virgin before a lay is usually pretty weird about it themselves. For real, why the fuck would you even announce this?). If you didn't mention that you're a virgin she's probably not even going to notice. You're likely not going to fumble any more than someone moderately experienced would: after all, you both (presumably) like each other and haven't had sex with each other yet, so you're both going to be fumbling awkwardly as you get a feel for one another's bodies. You're not going to remember her fumbles. And she's not going to notice yours; she's too worried about more pressing concerns like whether she's getting a little flabby, but she checked the mirror and she looked alright but then aren't there medical conditions like anorexia that trick your brain into seeing things in the mirror that aren't reality, so oh god what if she's actually a lardass and just delusional about it? And also that seafood you two had at the restaurant didn't agree with her and is it kind of gross to be having sex when she's this gassy? And...

So why is all of this a whitepill? Because it's liberating as fuck when you fully internalize this. Nobody gives a fuck about you, and even the ones that do are mostly phoning it in 99% of the time. So you're free to literally do whatever the hell you want, confident in the knowledge that literally everyone that's not you couldn't care less. Within reason of course (y'know, don't fail so hard at life that you wind up with a thread here would be my advice), but there's much more leeway than you guys seem to think.

I actually don't really agree with this one. A guy I used to work with got actively picked on for having mentioned once or twice that he's not good with women. He didn't explicitly say he was a virgin or anything. One day everybody was talking about whether they were married, single, whatever, and when it came his turn he said something like "never really had much luck there". Yes, that was probably still too much information, but it was an offhand remark and it didn't seem like he was trying to make a big deal out of it. From that point on, there was another guy who would always bring it up and hassle him about it, call him gay, etc. And both of them were like... 25 or something. Now that guy was kind of a dick to everybody and eventually ended up being fired for general incompetence, but still.

And as for me personally, I've been surprised how often friends bring it up once I mentioned that I'm not very good with women. Not all of them, but some of them seem a lot more concerned about it than I am.

 

[Grub]

@Lord of the Large Pants

From that point on, there was another guy who would always bring it up and hassle him about it, call him gay, etc. And both of them were like... 25 or something. Now that guy was kind of a dick to everybody and eventually ended up being fired for general incompetence

So...his opinion meant literally nothing then and most likely the rest of dude's coworkers just kind of rolled their eyes whenever loud mouthed retard spoke...