4X Games Thread. Expand Explore Exploit Exterminate.

[Armadillo]

Thoughts on the Dominions series? It seems like an underrated set of 4X games.

It's great, but only really worth playing in multiplayer, which can go from boring (first year expansion) to stressful really fast. It's become a spectator game for me, watching multiplayer videos on Youtube or reading AAR is pretty entertaining, but you have to know the game pretty well to get the most out of even that so there's a pretty huge barrier to entry on all levels. If the AI were more advanced and you could interact with it like, say, in Civilization it would be amazing in singleplayer as well, but as it stands SP is mostly just for trying out MP strategies or playing gimmicky stuff you can't get away with in MP.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

Sulla

Oh god.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

If the AI were more advanced and you could interact with it like, say, in Civilization it would be amazing in singleplayer as well, but as it stands SP is mostly just for trying out MP strategies or playing gimmicky stuff you can't get away with in MP.

One thing that MP is missing is the diplomacy. If you're known as a backstabber that'll come back to bite you (across several games) before you build trust up again, and there's also how everyone knows which nations they should try to knock down (EA Pan) and should try to get someone else to do that (MA Ermor.)

There's a whole meta within a meta, so yeah this game gets complex quick.

e: oh and yeah you have to be able to recognize when someone's taken a weird pretender pick. Mainly fire/blood access on a non-blood nation.

 

[Kane Lives]

One thing that MP is missing is the diplomacy. If you're known as a backstabber that'll come back to bite you (across several games) before you build trust up again, and there's also how everyone knows which nations they should try to knock down (EA Pan) and should try to get someone else to do that (MA Ermor.)

There's a whole meta within a meta, so yeah this game gets complex quick.

e: oh and yeah you have to be able to recognize when someone's taken a weird pretender pick. Mainly fire/blood access on a non-blood nation.

Diplomacy is why I quit Dominions MP for most part. The autism around it is incredible and I do not have the wherewithal to keep up.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

Diplomacy is why I quit Dominions MP for most part. The autism around it is incredible and I do not have the wherewithal to keep up.

Somethingawful had a good group going for a while, and then it slowly went the way of unabashed troonery and autism like most goon groups. I have no idea what the MP scene is like these days but you already have to be a bit special to enjoy Dom5 so I can't imagine it's anything good.

 

[Considered HARMful]

Diplomacy is why I quit Dominions MP for most part. The autism around it is incredible and I do not have the wherewithal to keep up.

Hey, don't leave us blueballed here! Cough up some exceptional stories!

 

[Force and Character]

Somethingawful had a good group going for a while, and then it slowly went the way of unabashed troonery and autism like most goon groups. I have no idea what the MP scene is like these days but you already have to be a bit special to enjoy Dom5 so I can't imagine it's anything good.

It's a mixed bag. Unless they're playing with friends, most people will join one of a few big discord servers to find games, and discord being what it is there's plenty of troons and spergs who get into gay slapfights at the drop of a hat. That said, in my experience the majority of people there are pretty chill most of the time, and you can absolutely have fun if you avoid games with gimmicks or autistic diplo rules.

 

[Kane Lives]

Hey, don't leave us blueballed here! Cough up some exceptional stories!

I wish I still had receipts, but basically diplomacy boiled down to a lot of screeching in any public-facing common forum you have (either in /domg/, or in Codex's innumerable game threads, or for the brief time I lingered, in the trannycords that most has congregated to these days). And the few sekrit PM chains I been in has been equally exhausting, to be honest. People would write like 1000+ word screeds on how X should not be trusted and lots of shittalking like its some FGA shit on how they're winning etc etc.

It got so autistic that I completely lost interest in most long-running MP games, along with the aforementioned problem on how long it took to do turns when you're like in turn 36+ (year 3 onwards, basically).

 

[An Ghost]

I wish I still had receipts, but basically diplomacy boiled down to a lot of screeching in any public-facing common forum you have (either in /domg/, or in Codex's innumerable game threads, or for the brief time I lingered, in the trannycords that most has congregated to these days). And the few sekrit PM chains I been in has been equally exhausting, to be honest. People would write like 1000+ word screeds on how X should not be trusted and lots of shittalking like its some FGA shit on how they're winning etc etc.

It got so autistic that I completely lost interest in most long-running MP games, along with the aforementioned problem on how long it took to do turns when you're like in turn 36+ (year 3 onwards, basically).

Sounds like we should have a KF game. Where all the gods are named some variation of "Big Nig" or "Null."

And I like the long turns. With all the keyboard short cuts the only limitation on speed is me.

 

[Kane Lives]

Sounds like we should have a KF game. Where all the gods are named some variation of "Big Nig" or "Null."

And I like the long turns. With all the keyboard short cuts the only limitation on speed is me.

Won't be difficult to host, with all the automated tools we have these days.

How many would even be interested, though?

 

[An Ghost]

Won't be difficult to host, with all the automated tools we have these days.

How many would even be interested, though?

Who knows. I love the game but I have other commitments currently. Ask about it here:

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/lets-play-dominions-5-the-warriors-of-faith.105636/

 

[eternal dog mongler]

How many would even be interested, though?

I'd be in

 

[Spunt]

I just got Before We Leave on sale. Looks like a lot of fun, a hybrid 4x/Citybuilder without combat, just production chains, trade and diplomacy. I like slow-paced, chill games like the early Settlers games so this might scratch my itch.

Reporting back on this: It's good, though it's less a 4x game than a supply-chain game with colonisation/resource gathering elements. It's a very easy game without any real fail state (though you could theoretically soft-lock it if you're really careless), cute graphics and an amazing soundtrack. It's very chill, though the supply lines become extremely complex as you open up the tech tree and start visiting other planets. Like Factorio on peaceful mode, the loop of the game is trying to advance the tech tree by using existing techs to build the gadgets you need to advance the tech tree. If you like stuff like the early Settlers games and want a chill supply-chain game that's prettier and less autistic/challenging than Factorio then you might like it.

 

[Bush King]

Galactic Civilizations IV is available to pirate. Consider it... because so far it seems really... hm. I dunno. I think I like it? But I don't know. Feels like the series is on the decline. GalCiv III was alright. II was better.

Fucked around finding a decent version, not much difference between the pre-release watermarked version and 1.1.

I like the sectors idea, the tech shuffling isn't too annoying like it is in Stellaris, but it's very strange when you have the equivalent of a normal size map as your home sector but only one other race to share it with. I like peaceful games, but 45 turns in with 3 scout ships and it's still only 75% revealed. The starting treasury should probably be increased to 4,000 like it was in GalCiv4, far too easy to colonise and then have useless worlds you can't build anything on because governors cost ~300 credits and you start with 1,000. It's almost impossible to play tall in GalCiv3, so maybe this will help slow expansion for the tall civs to keep up, and spend credits on ministers and rushing instead. Also, pirates are insane- my first game was on beginner to learn any new mechanics and the first star system I explored spawned a pirate base which had 15 ships ten turn later. I also allied with them and they still blew up my survey ships, bit annoying. UI is also a bit strange, everything is hidden behind drop-down menus and the slots are far more frustrating to order things with, no up/down button, just drag and drop, but no indication where to drop it.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

UI is also a bit strange, everything is hidden

Let's talk about the UI for a second. The fucking UI gets in the way of important details and I can't click on fleets near planets and starbases unless I zoom way in or use the fleet menu because the planet infobar blocks the fleet. And in planetary governor mode, I can't see hex bonuses easily because the description boxes block half the screen.

What the fuck???

Also, I too allied with the pirates and they have been fine. But the mystery space drones and the space horrors have literally dozens of random small hull ships flying around and it has taken me ages to wipe out just one colony of them. There are like, five other colonies still... FUCK.

 

[Bush King]

Let's talk about the UI for a second. The fucking UI gets in the way of important details and I can't click on fleets near planets and starbases unless I zoom way in or use the fleet menu because the planet infobar blocks the fleet. And in planetary governor mode, I can't see hex bonuses easily because the description boxes block half the screen.

What the fuck???

Also, I too allied with the pirates and they have been fine. But the mystery space drones and the space horrors have literally dozens of random small hull ships flying around and it has taken me ages to wipe out just one colony of them. There are like, five other colonies still... FUCK.

Also you can easily bankrupt the AI by demanding credits per turn. I've only failed the persuasion diplomacy check once out of a dozen or so times I tried, give them a couple techs you don't care about and they'll be happy to give 100+ credits a month. It also doesn't block you from demanding it if they are already bankrupt or will be made bankrupt- the Terran Resistance was happy to dig their own grave and then felt I was a miracle sent from Heaven when I gave them enough to exit bankruptcy in exchange for 50 turns worth of research. Supposed to be roleplaying a peaceful culture civ, when really I'm acting like a corporate tycoon/used car salesman that persuades you into signing over your house for three magic beans.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

Also you can easily bankrupt the AI by demanding credits per turn. I've only failed the persuasion diplomacy check once out of a dozen or so times I tried, give them a couple techs you don't care about and they'll be happy to give 100+ credits a month. It also doesn't block you from demanding it if they are already bankrupt or will be made bankrupt- the Terran Resistance was happy to dig their own grave and then felt I was a miracle sent from Heaven when I gave them enough to exit bankruptcy in exchange for 50 turns worth of research. Supposed to be roleplaying a peaceful culture civ, when really I'm acting like a corporate tycoon/used car salesman that persuades you into signing over your house for three magic beans.

Big news from Stardock rumored for "summer"... hope (but doubt) they will fix this.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

Big news from Stardock rumored for "summer"... hope (but doubt) they will fix this.

It's really not possible to fix because bonuses based on how well the civ likes you along with your civ's diplomacy bonus are what's breaking it. Any civ who makes the mistake of liking you will quickly end up bankrupt.

I usually turn tech trading off because it just penalizes research-focused civs anyway. Alpha Centauri had the same problem.

 

[Bush King]

It's really not possible to fix because bonuses based on how well the civ likes you along with your civ's diplomacy bonus are what's breaking it. Any civ who makes the mistake of liking you will quickly end up bankrupt.

I usually turn tech trading off because it just penalizes research-focused civs anyway. Alpha Centauri had the same problem.

Most games have a hard stop to prevent bankrupting deals, or a fixed acceptance penalty when they are losing money per turn to trade any of their banked cash. Stellaris has an automatic -1,000 to any deal where the AI does not have a good supply/reserve of a resource, so you physically cannot get them to accept no matter how much they like you.

 

[Slap47]

I think I like Endless Space 2 more than Stellaris.

In ES2 its impossible to just fortify behind a super fortress and build up. You need to maintain your military or gamble on production and risk getting barbarossa'd.