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A few more words from an atheist

I know there’s been a number of stories about this, but I wanted to add another perspective from a nonbeliever. The friction between faith traditions and non-believers is bound to grow in America, especially if the Christian population continues to contract and the “unaffiliated” grows. I honestly believe that this friction is healthy for the most part—it is long past time for atheists to have the right to safely express their thoughts while the faithful need to have their sense of “religion as default” challenged. With this in mind, I wanted to say a few things mostly to my religious DKos brothers and sisters.

First, it’s useful to recall that for most of human history, being an atheist almost anywhere in the world was dangerous, both socially and physically. In many places it still is, including in the United States. Being a member of a loathed and vilified community based solely on a lack of religious faith can easily breed anger and contempt—especially when anyone can look about and see the harm that many religious institutions are doing. And it doesn’t help that our culture remains suffused with religion—it’s everywhere and there is no escaping it, even within our so-called secular public institutions.

But atheists are generally expected to accept this state of affairs with either appreciation or silence. There is a long-standing notion that religious beliefs should be “respected”, which I have always understood to mean never questioned, criticized, or mocked. Regardless of how frequently atheism is maligned and misrepresented, we are to treat religion as honorable and faith as a virtue—and if we don’t, that is merely further evidence of our depravity and bitter character.

Of course, there are many good Christians—I honestly understand the impulse behind the #NotAllChristians response. [Note: I’m singling out Christianity because it is the majority religion in the US, but this is all relevant to religion in general.] But sometimes this fact is used to shame atheists back into silence with some version of the “few bad apples” argument.

However, from an atheistic perspective, this is a trite and arbitrary defense. Since we generally don’t accept the Bible as authoritative (and certainly not divinely inspired), we don’t believe that there is a “true” interpretation of scripture. Many atheists argue that the fundamental problem lies in exactly this illusion. Since the Abrahamic religions rely on faith (as opposed to, say, empiricism), any given interpretation is as “good” as another. The Bible is large and incongruous enough to justify almost any opinion one might have about it’s teachings.

Which is all to say, many atheists aren’t convinced that religion, nor religious people, deserve the protection from questions, criticism, or mockery that they have enjoyed for so long. The relative safety of the Internet now makes it impossible to hold back that tide. And as atheism grows (especially amongst the younger generations), our voice will inevitably grow with it. But don’t forget, atheists remain greatly outnumbered for now; we have little to no real power outside of the influence of our words. The last thing we’re going to do is be quiet.

A FEW WORDS TO LIBERAL CHRISTIANS AND PEOPLE OF FAITH
  • Many atheists do not speak out against religion from a place of bitterness, but from a place of aspiration—a desire to see a better world that religion prevents.
  • The large majority of atheists don’t hate you and are not trying to destroy your religion or outlaw your right to worship. Some of us, however, are trying to persuade you to question your faith or religion itself, and that’s not the same thing.
  • Many people have a natural impulse to want religion to stay private, and on an individual level I live by this principle myself. But religion itself is not private. It’s deeply embedded in American culture—in our movies and television shows, political speeches and public board meetings, streets lined with churches, billboards, school performances, water cooler conversations, asks for donations to religious charities, magazine interviews, sponsors of kid’s sports teams, dangling on necklaces, and on and on. Religion gets to “speak” constantly. It’s the “default”. And because of this, it can be uncomfortable to hear atheists voicing an alternative point of view, which can result in efforts to silence us with accusations of arrogance, intolerance, bigotry, ignorance, sinfulness, and all other manner of horrible traits (just read some of the comments below). But we are not on an even playing field and there is no escape from religion in America. Please try to remember this when you are inspired to convince an atheist to be quiet.
  • Religion is neither necessary for nor indicative of moral character. Faith gives no one an ethical advantage. There is no good thing a religious person can do that an atheist cannot. That which is morally good within religion can be had outside of that religion.
  • Voicing criticism and mockery of beliefs that you hold is not the same as attacking or oppressing you personally. You do not have a right to be free of offense based on religion. For those who are easily upset at religious criticism, you would be well served by thickening your skin a bit and remembering that if any given critique or disparagement by an atheist doesn’t apply to you, then it doesn’t apply to you.
  • The problems with religion will not be solved with sectarianism. There will never be a “victory” of the true, good expression of religious scripture. As many atheists see it, the fundamental problem is with the concept of faith in scripture itself. As long as people believe that scripture holds the keys to divine truth and salvation, there will be dogma, fundamentalism, and hurtful religious ideology in the name of any given exegesis. This is what many of us ultimately are fighting against, and this is bound to cause friction.
A FEW WORDS TO ATHEISTS AND NONBELIEVERS
  • The last thing I would do is ask you to be silent or censure yourself. But I would ask that you contemplate what you are trying to accomplish with any given communication. If you are trying to persuade, then there are well-known methods of doing that, and using language that your target audience would likely take offense to generally reinforces their pre-existing positions. Yes, there are times when provocative language is called for, and I know how to sling it myself. I would merely encourage you to develop a full rhetorical toolbox rather than limit yourself to just a hammer.
  • It can be very useful rhetorically to differentiate between the belief and the believer. No one wants to be told they are stupid, irrational, childish, or unethical, either directly or by implication. And doing so within the context of DailyKos is certainly counterproductive. However, it is possible to be critical of religion without being critical of believers. Two fantastic examples of this is Drew McCoy (better known as Genetically Modified Skeptic on YouTube) and Hemant Mehta (the Friendly Atheist). Again, I’m not saying anyone “should” speak like them, only that their approach is often effective. Even someone as fiery as Matt Dillahunty can change it up depending on the context (here’s a great example).
  • There is something to the argument about inviting unnecessary strife within the Democratic coalition. For instance, as much as I support the aspirations of BLM, I believe their attacks on Bernie Sanders and other Democrats played a role in our 2016 defeat. In no way does that mean I’m arguing that atheists shouldn’t critique religion on DailyKos. I actually think we should. But I also think we can do it here without using such a large brush that we create hard dividing lines. Yes, we should debate, but we all belong in the tent, and disagreement does not have to impair solidarity.
 
Atheists weren't really persecuted faggot
Loud mouth assholes were, you can just nod and smile
I blame with Internet and anti-bullying campaigns for having to deal with these fedoralord euphorics. The tarded atheists got bullied for being insufferable and the smart atheists just kept their mouths shut and went through the motions and, this is important, everyone was happier. Now you can't even physical reach them to beat the insufferable asshole out of them and they go on to shit up internet forums, safe in the knowledge that no one can beat them with the mop they use at their health care industry job.
 
  • Many atheists do not speak out against religion from a place of bitterness, but from a place of aspiration—a desire to see a better world that religion prevents.
Atheists throughout the entirety of human society have never created anything without piggybacking on religions. And the few times they got the reigns their rule ended with insane degeneracy, corruption and disregard for human life. Modern Atheism itself is based entirely on Judeo-Christian ideas only removing the mention of god despite that being the justification for those ideals.
  • The large majority of atheists don’t hate you and are not trying to destroy your religion or outlaw your right to worship. Some of us, however, are trying to persuade you to question your faith or religion itself, and that’s not the same thing.
Besides the ridiculous "I'm not trying to kill you, only stab you". This is only correct until you question things like LGBT and then they see it as fair game to outlaw your religion.
  • Many people have a natural impulse to want religion to stay private, and on an individual level I live by this principle myself. But religion itself is not private. It’s deeply embedded in American culture—in our movies and television shows, political speeches and public board meetings, streets lined with churches, billboards, school performances, water cooler conversations, asks for donations to religious charities, magazine interviews, sponsors of kid’s sports teams, dangling on necklaces, and on and on. Religion gets to “speak” constantly. It’s the “default”. And because of this, it can be uncomfortable to hear atheists voicing an alternative point of view, which can result in efforts to silence us with accusations of arrogance, intolerance, bigotry, ignorance, sinfulness, and all other manner of horrible traits (just read some of the comments below). But we are not on an even playing field and there is no escape from religion in America. Please try to remember this when you are inspired to convince an atheist to be quiet.
Fitting that the only mention of charity in the smug article is when Christians do it. The Atheist utopia is one ruled by narcissism and selfishness.
  • Religion is neither necessary for nor indicative of moral character. Faith gives no one an ethical advantage. There is no good thing a religious person can do that an atheist cannot. That which is morally good within religion can be had outside of that religion.
What is moral to an atheist who believes that everyone are meat puppets? Why should you care about morals when you believe there is nothing beyond societal punishment for disobeying them?
  • Voicing criticism and mockery of beliefs that you hold is not the same as attacking or oppressing you personally. You do not have a right to be free of offense based on religion. For those who are easily upset at religious criticism, you would be well served by thickening your skin a bit and remembering that if any given critique or disparagement by an atheist doesn’t apply to you, then it doesn’t apply to you.
By the person writing an entire article devoted to seething.
  • The problems with religion will not be solved with sectarianism. There will never be a “victory” of the true, good expression of religious scripture. As many atheists see it, the fundamental problem is with the concept of faith in scripture itself. As long as people believe that scripture holds the keys to divine truth and salvation, there will be dogma, fundamentalism, and hurtful religious ideology in the name of any given exegesis. This is what many of us ultimately are fighting against, and this is bound to cause friction.
So we should all live in a post modernist world where there is no truth except whatever is dictated to us currently by the ruling class. I don't need to say why this is terrible.
  • There is something to the argument about inviting unnecessary strife within the Democratic coalition. For instance, as much as I support the aspirations of BLM, I believe their attacks on Bernie Sanders and other Democrats played a role in our 2016 defeat. In no way does that mean I’m arguing that atheists shouldn’t critique religion on DailyKos. I actually think we should. But I also think we can do it here without using such a large brush that we create hard dividing lines. Yes, we should debate, but we all belong in the tent, and disagreement does not have to impair solidarity.
The hypocrisy of going against religion for justification of injustice and then going back and bowing to the Golden Donkey and preaching that people should ignore injustice for the sake of elites being in power.

I'm not going to be mad at the author, since he is going to hell anyways.
 
  • Many atheists do not speak out against religion from a place of bitterness, but from a place of aspiration—a desire to see a better world that religion prevents.
If you think it's religion that's making you an incel who can't monetize his hobbies into a good-paying job because you don't want to learn anything that other people would actually pay you for, then you need to pray to Atheist God to give you a replacement brain.
  • The large majority of atheists don’t hate you and are not trying to destroy your religion or outlaw your right to worship. Some of us, however, are trying to persuade you to question your faith or religion itself, and that’s not the same thing.
There's nothing stopping atheists from setting up shop on Youtube and ripping Christians apart. That's what many of them have been doing since Youtube was a thing. A great many atheists DO try to stop Christians from making public displays of their religion and DO tear down public Christian monuments, even though those monuments have non-religious cultural/historical significance. Atheists have no problem imposing their religious-like beliefs on the populace and using government money to do so. CRT and the Gender Cult are just the latest example of religious beliefs masquerading as "scientific truth". As long as some guy in a lab coat is saying something that an atheist likes to hear, the atheist will be happy to treat him as a prophet of God and everything he says as scripture, no matter how bullshit it is.
  • Many people have a natural impulse to want religion to stay private, and on an individual level I live by this principle myself. But religion itself is not private. It’s deeply embedded in American culture—in our movies and television shows, political speeches and public board meetings, streets lined with churches, billboards, school performances, water cooler conversations, asks for donations to religious charities, magazine interviews, sponsors of kid’s sports teams, dangling on necklaces, and on and on. Religion gets to “speak” constantly. It’s the “default”. And because of this, it can be uncomfortable to hear atheists voicing an alternative point of view, which can result in efforts to silence us with accusations of arrogance, intolerance, bigotry, ignorance, sinfulness, and all other manner of horrible traits (just read some of the comments below). But we are not on an even playing field and there is no escape from religion in America. Please try to remember this when you are inspired to convince an atheist to be quiet.
No. Shut the fuck up. If you don't like America (which is a product of Christian Faith and Culture) you can go off to the middle of nowhere and found Neckbeardistan. There's nothing stopping you from setting up an atheist collective and establishing rules for residence. Plenty of Christian fundies and New Agers have done the same.

  • Religion is neither necessary for nor indicative of moral character. Faith gives no one an ethical advantage. There is no good thing a religious person can do that an atheist cannot. That which is morally good within religion can be had outside of that religion.
The birth rate of believers vs. non-believers disagrees with you. Even if an atheist adopts a transcendant set of values based on "doing the least harm" or "survival of the greatest number", he has no way to morally condemn those who game the system and get away with it, as Nature allows for a few criminals and free riders, and even rewards them with higher birth rates and greater material success at times. Only a nihilist would be living in a truthful way concordant with materialist values. Most atheists pretty much adopt universalist Christian values and file the Theist serial numbers off because it just works better than trying to live like a Mad Max Warlord in a world full of police and surveillance cameras.
  • Voicing criticism and mockery of beliefs that you hold is not the same as attacking or oppressing you personally. You do not have a right to be free of offense based on religion. For those who are easily upset at religious criticism, you would be well served by thickening your skin a bit and remembering that if any given critique or disparagement by an atheist doesn’t apply to you, then it doesn’t apply to you.
Tell that to the Muslims. No, wait. You won't, because you're a chickenshit.
  • The problems with religion will not be solved with sectarianism. There will never be a “victory” of the true, good expression of religious scripture. As many atheists see it, the fundamental problem is with the concept of faith in scripture itself. As long as people believe that scripture holds the keys to divine truth and salvation, there will be dogma, fundamentalism, and hurtful religious ideology in the name of any given exegesis. This is what many of us ultimately are fighting against, and this is bound to cause friction.
Dogma exists as a tool to shape future human behavior, based on long held observations of past human behavior. Dogma can be religious or non-religious, and adherence to it without question or examination is going to be a problem for both theists and atheists. Anyone who thinks atheists can't get hung up on sectarianism, adherence to dogma, and purity spirals has never read the history of the French or Russian revolutions. Also, there are plenty of atheists who treat "muh Science" the same as people of the past treated "the Word of God." Scientists can get hung up in interpreting data just as priests can get hung up on interpreting Scripture. And both data AND Scripture can be twisted to serve the interests of the powerful. it doesn't mean that either aren't truthful or worth examining.

A FEW WORDS TO ATHEISTS AND NONBELIEVERS
  • The last thing I would do is ask you to be silent or censure yourself. But I would ask that you contemplate what you are trying to accomplish with any given communication. If you are trying to persuade, then there are well-known methods of doing that, and using language that your target audience would likely take offense to generally reinforces their pre-existing positions. Yes, there are times when provocative language is called for, and I know how to sling it myself. I would merely encourage you to develop a full rhetorical toolbox rather than limit yourself to just a hammer.
Fuck you. Coddling leftists has only made them bolder and more degenerate. If an offensive argument or language can achieve my ends, I'll use it, since leftists like you wouldn't hesitate to bash my beliefs, insult me, or even censor me if you deemed my language "a form of violence." The First Amendment is hanging by a thread now, and if it breaks, it's because faggots like you claimed that words are the same as physical violence and should be strictly regulated. You won't hesitate to say whatever you want though, using violent and disturbing imagery since "you're on the Right Side of History."
  • It can be very useful rhetorically to differentiate between the belief and the believer. No one wants to be told they are stupid, irrational, childish, or unethical, either directly or by implication. And doing so within the context of DailyKos is certainly counterproductive. However, it is possible to be critical of religion without being critical of believers. Two fantastic examples of this is Drew McCoy (better known as Genetically Modified Skeptic on YouTube) and Hemant Mehta (the Friendly Atheist). Again, I’m not saying anyone “should” speak like them, only that their approach is often effective. Even someone as fiery as Matt Dillahunty can change it up depending on the context (here’s a great example).
One certainly has to know their audience when one is trying to persuade them, but last I looked, it wasn't Christians burning down cities or joining FEMEN. Most Christians know that the media is on the Left's side and that committing acts of violence or using offensive imagery will only play into the leftist's narrative of victimhood. That's why whenever I hear of an attack on a minority or POC, I tend to think it's a hoax done by the attackee for attention, and 9 times out of 10, I'm right.
  • There is something to the argument about inviting unnecessary strife within the Democratic coalition. For instance, as much as I support the aspirations of BLM, I believe their attacks on Bernie Sanders and other Democrats played a role in our 2016 defeat. In no way does that mean I’m arguing that atheists shouldn’t critique religion on DailyKos. I actually think we should. But I also think we can do it here without using such a large brush that we create hard dividing lines. Yes, we should debate, but we all belong in the tent, and disagreement does not have to impair solidarity.

You Leftys created Cancel Culture and the tone policing of online spaces. You created an environment where throwing people under the bus is a way to gain status and improve their place on the Victim Stack. You lit the fire, you don't get to complain when it starts burning you. I'm not against any atheist who genuinely wants to debate or has reached his beliefs after long and careful consideration. Atheism isn't usually a happy, fun, feel-good belief system, but those who choose it because they're mad at Dad or because they want to stuff things into their own butts and hate society's disapproval - to the point where they're willing to dismantle other people's freedoms - can suck it.
 
"God is dead."
-Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead."
-God
Nietzsche is just Augustine with mommy issues. Actually that’s too nice, Nietzsche is Augustine who never overcame his mommy issues.

Schopenhauer and Nietzsche really fucked over the West. They unironcally are spiritual niggers who talked a big game about masculinity, but never attempted to live by their own standards.
 
Nietzsche is just Augustine with mommy issues. Actually that’s too nice, Nietzsche is Augustine who never overcame his mommy issues.

Schopenhauer and Nietzsche really fucked over the West. They unironcally are spiritual niggers who talked a big game about masculinity, but never attempted to live by their own standards.
I’ll take a depressive bed-ridden German philosopher over a degenerate French one. Though I give a pass to Renee Descartes, who was phenomenally brilliant and fascinating. Also funny how he was a pious man.
 
Religion is neither necessary for nor indicative of moral character. Faith gives no one an ethical advantage. There is no good thing a religious person can do that an atheist cannot.
An atheist cannot conceive of a moral universe. The only way to get real morality is for a non-contingent being to establish that some things are universally preferable to others. (And this being we call God.) Then, through revelation or contemplation, you can try to suss out those preferences and conform your behavior to them. Otherwise, your "morals" have no external reality, they're just rules made up and enforced by whoever can force others to obey them.
 
They unironcally are spiritual niggers who talked a big game about masculinity, but never attempted to live by their own standards.
They were also thinking that if you abolish Christian morals you somehow become more free. Instead you become a slave to your lowest instincts and the sexual revolution is the proof of it. Slaves of lust who will cut their dicks of in search of the ultimate orgasm.
 
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