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A few more words from an atheist

I know there’s been a number of stories about this, but I wanted to add another perspective from a nonbeliever. The friction between faith traditions and non-believers is bound to grow in America, especially if the Christian population continues to contract and the “unaffiliated” grows. I honestly believe that this friction is healthy for the most part—it is long past time for atheists to have the right to safely express their thoughts while the faithful need to have their sense of “religion as default” challenged. With this in mind, I wanted to say a few things mostly to my religious DKos brothers and sisters.

First, it’s useful to recall that for most of human history, being an atheist almost anywhere in the world was dangerous, both socially and physically. In many places it still is, including in the United States. Being a member of a loathed and vilified community based solely on a lack of religious faith can easily breed anger and contempt—especially when anyone can look about and see the harm that many religious institutions are doing. And it doesn’t help that our culture remains suffused with religion—it’s everywhere and there is no escaping it, even within our so-called secular public institutions.

But atheists are generally expected to accept this state of affairs with either appreciation or silence. There is a long-standing notion that religious beliefs should be “respected”, which I have always understood to mean never questioned, criticized, or mocked. Regardless of how frequently atheism is maligned and misrepresented, we are to treat religion as honorable and faith as a virtue—and if we don’t, that is merely further evidence of our depravity and bitter character.

Of course, there are many good Christians—I honestly understand the impulse behind the #NotAllChristians response. [Note: I’m singling out Christianity because it is the majority religion in the US, but this is all relevant to religion in general.] But sometimes this fact is used to shame atheists back into silence with some version of the “few bad apples” argument.

However, from an atheistic perspective, this is a trite and arbitrary defense. Since we generally don’t accept the Bible as authoritative (and certainly not divinely inspired), we don’t believe that there is a “true” interpretation of scripture. Many atheists argue that the fundamental problem lies in exactly this illusion. Since the Abrahamic religions rely on faith (as opposed to, say, empiricism), any given interpretation is as “good” as another. The Bible is large and incongruous enough to justify almost any opinion one might have about it’s teachings.

Which is all to say, many atheists aren’t convinced that religion, nor religious people, deserve the protection from questions, criticism, or mockery that they have enjoyed for so long. The relative safety of the Internet now makes it impossible to hold back that tide. And as atheism grows (especially amongst the younger generations), our voice will inevitably grow with it. But don’t forget, atheists remain greatly outnumbered for now; we have little to no real power outside of the influence of our words. The last thing we’re going to do is be quiet.

A FEW WORDS TO LIBERAL CHRISTIANS AND PEOPLE OF FAITH
  • Many atheists do not speak out against religion from a place of bitterness, but from a place of aspiration—a desire to see a better world that religion prevents.
  • The large majority of atheists don’t hate you and are not trying to destroy your religion or outlaw your right to worship. Some of us, however, are trying to persuade you to question your faith or religion itself, and that’s not the same thing.
  • Many people have a natural impulse to want religion to stay private, and on an individual level I live by this principle myself. But religion itself is not private. It’s deeply embedded in American culture—in our movies and television shows, political speeches and public board meetings, streets lined with churches, billboards, school performances, water cooler conversations, asks for donations to religious charities, magazine interviews, sponsors of kid’s sports teams, dangling on necklaces, and on and on. Religion gets to “speak” constantly. It’s the “default”. And because of this, it can be uncomfortable to hear atheists voicing an alternative point of view, which can result in efforts to silence us with accusations of arrogance, intolerance, bigotry, ignorance, sinfulness, and all other manner of horrible traits (just read some of the comments below). But we are not on an even playing field and there is no escape from religion in America. Please try to remember this when you are inspired to convince an atheist to be quiet.
  • Religion is neither necessary for nor indicative of moral character. Faith gives no one an ethical advantage. There is no good thing a religious person can do that an atheist cannot. That which is morally good within religion can be had outside of that religion.
  • Voicing criticism and mockery of beliefs that you hold is not the same as attacking or oppressing you personally. You do not have a right to be free of offense based on religion. For those who are easily upset at religious criticism, you would be well served by thickening your skin a bit and remembering that if any given critique or disparagement by an atheist doesn’t apply to you, then it doesn’t apply to you.
  • The problems with religion will not be solved with sectarianism. There will never be a “victory” of the true, good expression of religious scripture. As many atheists see it, the fundamental problem is with the concept of faith in scripture itself. As long as people believe that scripture holds the keys to divine truth and salvation, there will be dogma, fundamentalism, and hurtful religious ideology in the name of any given exegesis. This is what many of us ultimately are fighting against, and this is bound to cause friction.
A FEW WORDS TO ATHEISTS AND NONBELIEVERS
  • The last thing I would do is ask you to be silent or censure yourself. But I would ask that you contemplate what you are trying to accomplish with any given communication. If you are trying to persuade, then there are well-known methods of doing that, and using language that your target audience would likely take offense to generally reinforces their pre-existing positions. Yes, there are times when provocative language is called for, and I know how to sling it myself. I would merely encourage you to develop a full rhetorical toolbox rather than limit yourself to just a hammer.
  • It can be very useful rhetorically to differentiate between the belief and the believer. No one wants to be told they are stupid, irrational, childish, or unethical, either directly or by implication. And doing so within the context of DailyKos is certainly counterproductive. However, it is possible to be critical of religion without being critical of believers. Two fantastic examples of this is Drew McCoy (better known as Genetically Modified Skeptic on YouTube) and Hemant Mehta (the Friendly Atheist). Again, I’m not saying anyone “should” speak like them, only that their approach is often effective. Even someone as fiery as Matt Dillahunty can change it up depending on the context (here’s a great example).
  • There is something to the argument about inviting unnecessary strife within the Democratic coalition. For instance, as much as I support the aspirations of BLM, I believe their attacks on Bernie Sanders and other Democrats played a role in our 2016 defeat. In no way does that mean I’m arguing that atheists shouldn’t critique religion on DailyKos. I actually think we should. But I also think we can do it here without using such a large brush that we create hard dividing lines. Yes, we should debate, but we all belong in the tent, and disagreement does not have to impair solidarity.
 
Yes yes Christians… your entire article is aimed at Christians. Now aim this article at the Muslims and Jews. No? Why not?
You’re not really an atheist, you’re an anti- Christian.


Its clear their atheism is hardly from actual thought beliefs they actually hold. No, its clear that this comes from a deep resentment towards their parents or at least figures of authorities and for the longest time, what represented a big aspect of that was christianity so by going against it, they "rebel".

It further adds to my dislikement towards the rebellious attitude of the early 2000's because most of it amounted to just a bunch of spiteful kids going against their parents over petty shit because they were ultimately bored from living in a first world country. Being a rebel back then really wasnt a risky game, at most you got a finger wagging from your parents and government, nowadays, being a rebel risks you losing legit everything. Now that we need counter culture, they either quiet down or actively take the side of those they would hate if it was 20 years ago.

All driven by emotion and not a single hint of actual rationality. They do believe in God, they just hate Him.
 
What the fuck it this, 2006?
(Glances at other articles in forum about the latest Disney slop and new dating app revelations that match what OKCupid published ages ago.)

Yes, at least for some people. Their development arrested around there and they're desperate to hold everyone else back alongside them.

Learn from the past? That's Believer talk, friendo! Watch this new Youtube video of a guy in a novelty costume making fun of Ken Ham!
 
Since the Abrahamic religions rely on faith (as opposed to, say, empiricism), any given interpretation is as “good” as another.
Non sequitur. Mathematics is also non-empirical, that doesn't mean that 2+2=5 is as correct as 2+2=4.

Many atheists do not speak out against religion from a place of bitterness, but from a place of aspiration—a desire to see a better world that religion prevents.
So make this world happen, if only in miniature form, in your atheist community. However all we see are you people arguing about men in elevators and harassing members of your flock who question whether transwomen are women.

The large majority of atheists don’t hate you and are not trying to destroy your religion or outlaw your right to worship.
I quote the author himself: "the few 'bad apples' argument... is a trite and arbitrary defense."

Many people have a natural impulse to want religion to stay private
Regardless of many people's impulse, it remains a fact that Christianity (and I presume Islam) is a world-facing religion. We intend to bring the God's kingdom on this Earth, and this is not something that can be done solely by private observations. The desire to see a better world cannot be actualized by staying in your private garden.

Religion is neither necessary for nor indicative of moral character.
This is the view that Richard Dawkins keeps hocking. I used to accept that too, but now I've come to realize that a moral life is very, very difficult without religion.

Faith gives no one an ethical advantage
Yes it does.

Voicing criticism and mockery of beliefs that you hold is not the same as attacking or oppressing you personally
I accept that.

The problems with religion will not be solved with sectarianism. There will never be a “victory” of the true, good expression of religious scripture. As many atheists see it, the fundamental problem is with the concept of faith in scripture itself. As long as people believe that scripture holds the keys to divine truth and salvation, there will be dogma, fundamentalism, and hurtful religious ideology in the name of any given exegesis. This is what many of us ultimately are fighting against, and this is bound to cause friction.
The so-called "problems with religion" only arises if you subscribe to the view that sheer empiricism is the only way to understand the world, and that secularism is the only proper way to govern people -- and these are very dogmatic, fundamentalist positions.
 
Being myself a Catholic who somehow agreed with this,

  • Religion is neither necessary for nor indicative of moral character. Faith gives no one an ethical advantage. There is no good thing a religious person can do that an atheist cannot. That which is morally good within religion can be had outside of that religion.

now I'd say it's not correct.

Every society's morals were defined by the religion they originated from. That's why the values of Muslims are so different from the values of Christians or Jews. Even though people might not be religious or atheists, their uprising was defined by a set of values equally defined by their ancestors. So, the idea that "we don't need religion to be good" is not necessarily supported by evidence. Any atheist nowadays was raised with the religious values that were used to raise their parents.
 
You can't determine when a particle's going to decay.

It also doesn't matter for the overwhelming majority of use-cases. You could turn every atom in the universe into two-sided coins and flip them over and over for a trillion years, and particle decay rates would not influence even a single one of those coin-flips in a manner substantive enough to throw off a simple probability analysis. At some fundamental point, seemingly chaotic motions resolve themselves into deterministic patterns that are infinitely repeatable. That is stability. Whether or not some unfathomably miniscule aspect of the calculation is random doesn't matter, because it will have resolved itself into a deterministic pattern by the time you actually need to do anything productive with it.
 
Most major branches of Christianity agree on 90%, or more, of the same doctrine, and interpretation of scripture. It's only the wedge issues that cause schisms. Atheists wouldn't know this because they've never actually bothered to investigate the thing they so smugly reject.

Every Atheist I have ever listened to has only ever argued against Christianity. Additionally, they only argue from the perspective of Protestant Fundamentalism which follows the idea that the Bible is both Sola Scripture for the faith as well as that it must be both historically and forensically true in every way.

There is not a single atheist out there who does not do this. If you bring up Orthodox/Catholic concepts like the Sacred Tradition it short circuits them and they go back to linking comedy sketches from 15 years ago dunking on Fundies again.

They're retards. Atheists can and should be ignored entirely.
 
Every Atheist I have ever listened to has only ever argued against Christianity. Additionally, they only argue from the perspective of Protestant Fundamentalism which follows the idea that the Bible is both Sola Scripture for the faith as well as that it must be both historically and forensically true in every way.

There is not a single atheist out there who does not do this. If you bring up Orthodox/Catholic concepts like the Sacred Tradition it short circuits them and they go back to linking comedy sketches from 15 years ago dunking on Fundies again.

They're retards. Atheists can and should be ignored entirely.
"All of reality is just a bunch of vibrational energy fields interacting on a holographic superstructure, man. Also, there's no Roman historians that talk about Jesus, so the Bible has nothing to teach anyone."
 
Holy shit this article is gay as fuck. Way to embody every shitty stereotype about atheists you can and come off as obnoxious as possible to make people understand you.

I hate being an atheist. If I could flip a switch and believe in god, I would. Don’t you think it would be nice to think I would see dead friends and family again? I would also love to never be associated with faggots like the author of this article.

Alas, it is not possible.
 
Holy shit this article is gay as fuck. Way to embody every shitty stereotype about atheists you can and come off as obnoxious as possible to make people understand you.

I hate being an atheist. If I could flip a switch and believe in god, I would. Don’t you think it would be nice to think I would see dead friends and family again? I would also love to never be associated with faggots like the author of this article.

Alas, it is not possible.
Did someone tell you that believing and having faith would be inherently easy?
 
Holy shit this article is gay as fuck. Way to embody every shitty stereotype about atheists you can and come off as obnoxious as possible to make people understand you.

I hate being an atheist. If I could flip a switch and believe in god, I would. Don’t you think it would be nice to think I would see dead friends and family again? I would also love to never be associated with faggots like the author of this article.

Alas, it is not possible.
Powerlevel time.
I haven't been to church in years (outside of funerals) but there's a movie quote that sort of sums up how I view things. Especially nowadays.

"And if there is a hell, and those sons of bitches are from it, then there has got to be a heaven ... Jacob, there's gotta be."
- Seth Gecko, From Dusk Till Dawn
 
Not at all and you don't have to fool yourself. You need to reevaluate the concept that faith and supporting mundane science are somehow mutually exclusive. They are not.
My disbelief has nothing to do with scientific evidence or proof. Sure I guess on a base level I can’t see it therefore I can’t believe it.
I do not feel god and nothing short of a supernatural experience is going to change my mind. I keep hoping something like that happens in my life because I feel it will open my mind to the idea of god but it never happens.
 
Atheists don't actually give a shit if people are religious. The only people who care are turbo fedorafaggots who feel the need to impose their way of life upon you.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: Cyborg Braphog
I'm not imposing anything on you. I'm not some missionary. If you attempt to have faith and try to understand why people do you would know that it's a journey. It's not some light switch. I've had years of my life where doubts consumed me. Where I refused to believe for many reasons. But I continued on.

The usual atheist response is some variation of demanding a miracle to be presented to you immediately. A parlor trick so that it's a possibility. Somehow despite demanding someone to summon God into your presence for your immediate benefit you see yourself as the rational actor in this context.
 
Again, the atheist lying about Christianity being about only "believing", when there is a buttload of evidence out there debating it with reasons.

If there is no god, there is no difference with someone raping a thousand ppl and you, all goes to the same grave.
All corrupt politician will be justified, as your judgement upon them is pure hypocrisy and a powerless faggot move.

If there is no god, calling yourself "good", is the most narcissistic and hypocritical thing to do.

If there is no god, everything is "Might makes Right", so you crying out there for being prosecuted is totally deserving for you are powerless to even fight against the "stupid" christians you talk about.

Atheist can't think of anything other than themselves, their ego is blinding themselves. They almost like troons, except that they haven't cut their dicks yet.
 
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