A primer on the Cluster B disorders - Clarifying the distinctions

I’m not so sure about that. He’s pretty big into philanthropy, sure someone antisocial might do that to curate a good image, but you can get away with less than the Gates Foundation. A lot less.
One of his philanthropic ventures ended up sterilizing women without their knowledge or consent with vaccines, if I recall correctly. He's also been buying large amount of US farmland and is very big on lab grown meat and food substitutes and the like. His family has always been big into population control. He may not be as obvious a lizard person as Zuckerberg, but that just makes me a bit more concerned. Too bad fair though, to reach the levels of power and wealth Gates has I think requires at least high levels of "Dark Triad" traits, even if not pathological levels. Muddles the waters.

I am glad to hear that you make an effort. I try not to paint with too broad a brush, but I will admit that personal experience has colored that.
 
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Strange how his "philanthropy" is centered around further subsidizing africa to breed like rabbits, far beyond any ability to support themselves, and lobbying for Western taxpayers to babysit them forever. But none of those billions are directed at things like helping disaster-struck Americans, or training for those who've lost their jobs to globalism, or bringing back manufacturing, or ending the opioid epidemic...
One of his philanthropic ventures ended up sterilizing women without their knowledge or consent with vaccines, if I recall correctly.
Yeah, charities, especially the ones designed to make western liberals feel better about how they exploit people, tend to suck. I’m not sure how much of that can be blamed on Bill personally, it’s something basically all westerners do, from the government down to the individual.
He's also been buying large amount of US farmland and is very big on lab grown meat and food substitutes and the like. His family has always been big into population control.
Lab grown meat and food substitutes are worth researching. We waste a lot of farm area growing crops that feed useless cow organs, when all we really care about is the meat. If you could make a meat substitute that tastes good I’d be all for it, that’s something that would let us sustain a higher population without making compromises on quality of life. Because right now the system we have isn’t sustainable, a handful of wealthy nations live like kings while everyone else subsists, necessitating population control.
But this is super off topic and I’m sure I won’t convince anyone of anything.
He may not be as obvious a lizard person as Zuckerberg, but that just makes me a bit more concerned. Too bad fair though, to reach the levels of power and wealth Gates has I think requires at least high levels of "Dark Triad" traits, even if not pathological levels. Muddles the waters.
Yes, absolutely. I don’t see cluster B in neither Zuckerberg nor Gates, but you’re absolutely correct to say that you don’t reach that level of success without incorporating some antisocial tendencies into yourself. The difference is they might feel bad about what they do, might need to medicate that away. They might go over the top on philanthropy to feel that they’ve made a net positive impact on the world (moral licensing). Someone with genuine ASPD wouldn’t have these qualms.
I am glad to hear that you make an effort. I try not to paint with too broad a brush, but I will admit that personal experience has colored that.
You’re right to be wary, and I wouldn’t want to minimise your experiences. You feel the way you do for a reason, that’s fair enough. Thanks for hearing me out.
 
Because right now the system we have isn’t sustainable, a handful of wealthy nations live like kings while everyone else subsists
Why are the Western nations that feed half the world the "unsustainable" ones that must be forced to eat ze bugs, while africa having a subsidized population of 1.5 billion it can't feed or keep from shitting up every waterway are just something the rest of the world must adjust to?

In the 1980s Africa had <500 million people and couldn't feed them, so celebrities and governments rallied to massively subsidize them for the next 4 decades. Now they have 3x as many people they can't feed or clean up after.

Maybe 300 million Americans, 70 million Brits, and 30 million Canadians aren't the problem, while they're feeding themselves and 1500 million africans...
 
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These get really fun when they're comorbid with autism.
how could anyone tell lol
it’s my own diagnosis after all.
first rule of psychological testing is to get tested from someone the same background as you, if i had to guess you're a russian that got analyzed by an english person or immigrant completely out of sync with anyone in your neighborhood.

The black community has a 99% shot of being misdiagnosed by a white person when it comes to mental problems because of the cultural miscommunications, obviously its not as likely now because we stopped brainwashing everyone into believing everyone of all races and cultures act exactly the same but plenty of black psychopaths half a century ago got the label slapped on them because they said they'd beat the shit out of someone for touching their hair.
 
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Okay, but there’s ”no empathy” and ”no empathy”. There’s no affective empathy, sure, an antisocial person isn’t going to actually ”feel” your emotions (in fact I can’t even conceptualise that idea), but there is cognitive empathy, we can usually make a pretty good guess how you’ll react to something
Theory of "Cold Empathy". Its unlikely Cluster-B people have no empathy but can appear that way. BPDs can suspend empathy during their mini psychotic episodes but the popularized claims that no one in the Cluster-B club has empathy is excessive. Most are highly effective manipulators and understand it mechanically and how to use it to their advantage and against others. That requires having it to a degree. Whether they "feel" it or not, likely don't but they do have it. Psychopaths are the ones genuinely without it and with different brains but they can still wield it against others quite effectively by their nature.

All fun and games until one day one of those fake suicide cries turns into a real one.
BPDs have a 10% suicide-success rate they are not to be confused with other Cluster-Bs who will threaten suicide for attention or to evade accountability.

BPDs make the best girlfriends it's like a rollercoaster of love and domestic battery.
Yes, but they give real love - without boundaries and self-protection like an ideal parent/mother would in addition to romantic love. The total opposite of NPD. This is why they are so compelling but you are going to pay with your sanity at the very least.
 
first rule of psychological testing is to get tested from someone the same background as you, if i had to guess you're a russian that got analyzed by an english person or immigrant completely out of sync with anyone in your neighborhood.

The black community has a 99% shot of being misdiagnosed by a white person when it comes to mental problems because of the cultural miscommunications, obviously its not as likely now because we stopped brainwashing everyone into believing everyone of all races and cultures act exactly the same but plenty of black psychopaths half a century ago got the label slapped on them because they said they'd beat the shit out of someone for touching their hair.
No, I got my diagnosis in Russia, I’m writing in English here because that’s the language most of the farms uses and I don’t want to limit myself to just the handful of other Russian users.
I don’t want to get into the details because it doesn’t matter, but I consider the diagnosis accurate. It was a case of ”we want you to do this before we’ll let you have access to your trust fund” from my parents. ASPD with a history of CD as a teenager, and 28 on the PCL-R, which is fairly high, particularly for a woman, but is not actually psychopathy. Which is very good because I would probably have been disowned on the spot if I’d come home with that on my papers.
The UK puts the psychopathy limit at 25 so if I’d been evaluated there I probably would have gotten that diagnosis. But so would like 25% of all men, so that’s pretty silly.
Theory of "Cold Empathy". Its unlikely Cluster-B people have no empathy but can appear that way. BPDs can suspend empathy during their mini psychotic episodes but the popularized claims that no one in the Cluster-B club has empathy is excessive. Most are highly effective manipulators and understand it mechanically and how to use it to their advantage and against others. That requires having it to a degree. Whether they "feel" it or not, likely don't but they do have it. Psychopaths are the ones genuinely without it and with different brains but they can still wield it against others quite effectively by their nature.
Yes, exactly. ”No empathy” only applies to ASPD in general, is common in NPD, and is situational in BPD (like you say, they can ”shut it off” when they feel threatened). The distinction made is between affective empathy (actually feeling someone else’s emotions as if they were your own) and cognitive empathy (consciously understanding how people are likely to react to something). Most higher-functioning people, even those with ASPD or outright psychopathy, will be fairly good at cognitive empathy, you need to be in order to mask competently, and to manipulate effectively.

But I do think a lot of antisocial people still have some affective empathy, which they simply are able to ignore. It’s the nature-nurture thing. A psychopath born with a neurological impairment on the amygdala cannot feel affective empathy, it’s just how their brain developed, while a ”sociopath” (if we use the term as a shorthand for ASPD created by a traumatic childhood) probably just learned to shut it off to protect themselves. The former are the way they are and the best you can hope for is that they conclude that a prosocial attitude will lead to a more comfortable life, while the latter might actually be treatable by an extremely good therapist (not that many therapists are willing to go anywhere near you after you tell them ”I’ve got ASPD”). In general ASPD isn’t considered treatable at all, what therapists will do is tell your family how to control you, and otherwise urge them to distance themselves and try to get you incarcerated.
 
But I do think a lot of antisocial people still have some affective empathy, which they simply are able to ignore. It’s the nature-nurture thing. A psychopath born with a neurological impairment on the amygdala cannot feel affective empathy, it’s just how their brain developed, while a ”sociopath” (if we use the term as a shorthand for ASPD created by a traumatic childhood) probably just learned to shut it off to protect themselves. The former are the way they are and the best you can hope for is that they conclude that a prosocial attitude will lead to a more comfortable life, while the latter might actually be treatable by an extremely good therapist (not that many therapists are willing to go anywhere near you after you tell them ”I’ve got ASPD”). In general ASPD isn’t considered treatable at all, what therapists will do is tell your family how to control you, and otherwise urge them to distance themselves and try to get you incarcerated.

Sociopath was dropped a while ago as a vague catchall between highly manipulative, psychopathic and NPD behaviors. Psychopathy coming closer and closer to the verge of being done away with too. But the thing that unites all of them is the pity play as "Psychopath Nextdoor" wrote. If someone needs your pity and sympathy, run.

Interesting that ASPDs abuse substances so regularly they are at least 10 times more likely to be diagnosed as addicts than personality disordered. Under the radar and easily written off as criminals and addicts.
 
Where would attachment disorders work in here
Reactive and Disinhibited Attachment Disorder, the two pediatric attachment disorders with the most recognition in the US, are sometimes theorized to be related to the development of BPD later in life (a little like the link between Oppositional Defiant Disorder/Conduct Disorder and AsPD, but not nearly as formalized).

Those are somewhat controversial diagnoses in and of themselves, though, and personality disorders are complicated conditions that can present in a variety of ways. Most individuals diagnosed with a single condition actually show mixed symptoms, leading some research psychologists to subdivide them into multiple categories, while others theorize that most personality pathologies (possibly excluding Schizoid and Schizotypal PD) are actually a single illness with dimensional traits. If the pediatric attachment disorders are valid diagnoses and if they're actually connected to BPD, it's likely that RAD and DAD would lead to distinct presentations in adults. I'm not aware of any studies actually following children diagnosed with attachment disorders through to adulthood to see what percent go on to develop BPD, though, so it's based more on the idea making intuitive sense rather than any empirical evidence.
 
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Those are somewhat controversial diagnoses in and of themselves, though, and personality disorders are more complicated than people usually assume. Most individuals diagnosed with a single condition actually show mixed symptoms, leading some research psychologists to subdivide them into multiple categories, and others to theorize that most personality pathologies (possibly excluding Schizoid and Schizotypal PD) are actually a single illness with dimensional traits
I remember watching a video from Jordan Peterson a few years ago where he was talking about personality disorders and how they are diagnosed, for example with narcissism you have 9 symptoms and if you have 5 of those symptoms then you have NPD, but you could have two people who only share one of those symptoms in common and yet they are both narcissistic, it's quite different from how you categorize things in a science that involves numbers, if you want a to build a product made out of steel and want to calculate how much force it can handle you have a mathematical formula to calculate it, psychology reminds me of exercise science in that sense, it looks like it's a "this works more likely than not" science.
 
for example with narcissism you have 9 symptoms and if you have 5 of those symptoms then you have NPD, but you could have two people who only share one of thos symptoms in common and yet they are both narcissistic
BPD also has a 9 symptom list with only 5 necessary for diagnosis. A  competent clinician is usually going to consider a few of those to be core traits (grandiosity for NPD, mood lability and unstable relationships for BPD) in order to avoid misdiagnosis, but that still leaves a lot of room for variability.

Probably the best known personality disorder typology is the list created by the American research psychologist Theodore Millon in the late-20th century. Its subcategories are defined based on mixed traits and pronounced symptoms and, although it isn't a formal diagnostic tool, it's still been used for academic and clinical studies since at least the 1980s. Just within BPD, Dr. Millon described four subcategories, Petulant, Impulsive, Self-Destructive, and Discouraged, that differ starkly in clinical presentation, all while  still clarifying that most patients wouldn't fit neatly within a single classification. Others have added to or attempted to update Millon's lists (which include conditions no longer in the DSM), created their own, or described singular subcategories without making any effort at a broader taxonomy.

There's some degree of popular awareness about the level of variation that can appear within broader personality disorders, but academic terms and concepts usually loose their meaning after being stripped of context. They also tend to get turned into buzzwords by pop culture, which serves to confuse rather than inform people who hear them being constantly misused. Ask someone who calls their ex a "Covert Narcissist" what that phrase actually means, and you'll typically get a definition that has nothing to do with how it's used either clinically or in field research, along with at least a half dozen accusations of gaslighting that have nothing to do with the pattern of extreme psychological abuse that the term is meant to describe. At least with "Discouraged Borderline", the underlying concept survived translation into the theoretically more palatable euphemism "Quiet BPD". I really wish that the mental health professionals who first used it to describe the idea to patients could have come up with something else, though, because it risks spreading misconceptions now that it's escaped the therapeutic context and effectively replaced the original outside of scholarly journals and medical articles.
 
I got my diagnosis in Russia
It was a case of ”we want you to do this before we’ll let you have access to your trust fund” from my parents. ASPD with a history of CD as a teenager, and 28 on the PCL-R, which is fairly high, particularly for a woman, but is not actually psychopathy
Why would someone familiar with this and possessing self-awareness allow herself to score that high? What self-interested reason would there be to give honest answers, especially with an inheritance at stake, instead of aiming for a score that says "a few impulsive tendencies but overall well-balanced"?

The former are the way they are and the best you can hope for is that they conclude that a prosocial attitude will lead to a more comfortable life
So the Dexter scenario (not just the "hunt other serial killers as an outlet" part, but the acting normal and treating others well parts too). I wonder to what degree you could convince a high-functioning psychopath that pro-social behaviours, at least most of the time, are actually in his interest.

E.g. "You shouldn't go around lying and taking advantage of people constantly for short term gain, because they'll notice and shun you. Better to follow the Golden Rule, and focus on one big con, or just be legitimately good at your career and ultimately benefit more." That old joke about scamming someone into hiring you, continuing to scam them every day by doing solid work to scam promotions, then eventually retiring with a huge retirement account and pension...
 
Where my cluster A niggas at?
Usually being arrested because they think traffic laws dont apply to them as a sovereign citizen or making videos about being a targeted individual.
BPDs make the best girlfriends it's like a rollercoaster of love and domestic battery.
Its maybe worth it when youre like 20 and young enough to have the emotional/mental tolerance & the experience of having a woman not say no in bed for the first time. Beyond that fuck no. Too few days left on this planet to be dealing with a nuclear bomb going off in my personal life because I didnt respond to a text fast so their abandonment feelings are triggered.
 
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It gets more confusing when there are different types of BPD, narcs, etc.
I never knew there was a kind of narc that knows they suck but crave validation anyway like a leech
 
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