A question for Catholics

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AnimeGirlConnoisseur

AnimeGirlConnoisseur

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Sep 13, 2019
Hello,

I understand there are number of Catholics here who feel very disappointed with the church today. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that there are many Catholics, both on this site and in the world at large, who believe that the Pope and much of the church leadership is injecting progressive ideology into the church and that this ideology goes against the scripture. One could even make the argument that it is heretical. Now, I am not Catholic, but I don't think it would be hard for a Catholic to look at the current state of the church and conclude that it's one big sack of shit. The pope is steering the church away from the teachings of Jesus Christ and this needs to be fixed, but there is no way to fix it (the pope will select cardinals that are on his side, the cardinals will select a pope that is on their side, and both will select lower-level officials who are on there side).

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Catholics also believe that the church is the one institution that has the most legitimacy when it comes religious matters? Isn't, according the Catholic dogma, the pope the closest person to God on Earth?

If you know that the church is a sham, but you also believe that the church is what God wanted, then how do you deal with that? I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just want to know how you people deal with this problem.
 
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We reformed
 
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Catholics also believe that the church is the one institution that has the most legitimacy when it comes religious matters? Isn't, according the Catholic dogma, the pope the closest person to God on Earth?

If you know that the church is a sham, but you also believe that the church is what God wanted, then how do you deal with that? I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just want to know how you people deal with this problem.
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That's how the protestant reformation happened. Really that is your answer, if the church moves far enough away from Christian dogma then they split off to start their own church or join an existing reformation church.
 
If you know that the church is a sham, but you also believe that the church is what God wanted, then how do you deal with that? I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just want to know how you people deal with this problem.
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The term "the church" means two different things: The teachings and the institution. There really isn't an alternative that has the teachings but not the institution. Most people persevere and local churches can/have disregard/ed what the Pope says.

but there is no way to fix it (the pope will select cardinals that are on his side, the cardinals will select a pope that is on their side, and both will select lower-level officials who are on there side).
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  • There is a concept/title: "Doctor of the Church". They are people who basically fix the Catholic Church's issues through various means. Someone may step up and become one this era.
  • The Jesuit cardinals voting in blocs much like the Jews do in NY to take over city councils in black areas is an issue. The circumstances surrounding Ratzinger's(heil) resignation and the quick succession vote is suspicious and seemed to have taken other cardinals off guard. Maybe next time the other cardinals will bloc vote in the same way to counteract this. The Jesuits causing this have been a problem in the Catholic Church and they will eventually need reform or be brought before an inquisition(I forget the name of the heresy tribunal).
  • The Pope cannot change dogma in a significant manner and doing so would likely cause a schism or, at the very least, a convened council.

This isn't the first time there has been a bad/heretical Pope and it wont be the last. Besides, there isn't much to jump to aside from Greek Orthodox or Sedevacantism. The african bishops look promising in terms of being "anti-globohomo" and less decadent. At least in the US, millenial Catholics seem to gravitate more toward orthodoxy(little o) or the Episcopal globohomo sects. Maybe when the baby boomers die off, they will be able to rip up the carpet in their churches and polish the marble underneath. Yes, that is something that has happened.
The long term issue is the Catholic Church's concept of social justice and how it's used to justify mass immigration. Without significant reforms in that regard, the church will destroy itself.
 
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As the server’s tolken Catholic, I feel like I gotta respond. I’ll admit that yes there is a problem. However I think the problem is overblown. Yes, Pope Francis has moved the Church to the Left. But that’s only on certain issues and issues which, at least in my opinion, make sense. You don’t see Pope Francis say “abortions are ok” or “homosexuality is fine” or anything like that. You see him advocating for refugees, increased social tolerance, a preferential option for the poor, and environmentalism. All of these have some basis in Catholic theology and moral theory. The guy frequently bashes abortion, has called gender ideology a “nuclear weapon against the family” (or something like that), and has for all his tolerance of gays has never tolerated the behavior. He isn’t a heretic but sometimes he makes me nervous.

Now bishops on the other hand, some of them have been heretical. For instance, German bishops are very pro homosexuality. That’s what I’m worried about.

At the end of the day as a Catholic I believe that the Church was built upon Peter. And that at the end of the day the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. You won’t see the Church fundamentally change its positions on moral issues.
 
Paging @Marshal Mannerheim.

Here's my thoughts.

Matthew 23:3: "Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice."

Our faith is not in the pope or the clergy, but in the Person of Jesus Christ. The clergy are a means to an end.

When it comes to the doctrine of papal infallibility, it does not mean the Pope is the wisest, or perfect, or that everything he says is immutable Catholic doctrine. All it means is that he is protected by the Holy Spirit from contradicting God when speaking on formal matters of faith and morals.

As a Catholic, I am not obligated to agree with his personal or informal opinions, or even to like him. I'd be much more comfortable with Cardinal Robert Sarah or Raymond Burke in the Chair of Peter.

In practice, I really don't pay attention to much of the happenings in the church beyond my own parish and diocese. The Vatican's office politics are too much drama, and there's nothing I can really do about it. It doesn't help me grow in holiness, so it's not worth my time.
 
Meat Target said:
Paging @Marshal Mannerheim.
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Oh good, there are more of us. But yeah I think you put it better than I did. I ultimately think that a lot of this is just the media either purposely or unintentionally misinterpreting/construing Pope Francis. He’s certainly not as conservative as Benedict or even JPII. But he isn’t Fr. James Martin. Furthermore the Church transcends politics. While it’s easy to view the Church as merely a right wing cultural institution that’s not the case. For instance the Church has been very critical of capitalism long before Pope Francis was even born. It also opposed segregation and tried to protect the natives from enslavement in the New World.
 
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Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
Here's a question for Catholics.
Do you like sucking the Whore of Babylon's dick?
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That's like asking if you praise the Antichrist.

I've been backing a bit off on the Catholic side and lean more on Christianity since the whole praising the Pope thing feels too off. I get it but it does get annoying and preachy, not to mention others will start following his steps in evangelical methods. Just follow your local chapel/church and avoid the larger majority. You'll do fine.
 
Thoughts on the SSPX? I actually started going back to mass over the past 2 years, but it's a total mess. People using their phone while others do the rosary prior to mass, some female admin handing out the eucharist, some of the sisters can't even be bothered to kneel. I even went to lunch with our priest and he tells me his brother was on heroin and when asked about Vatican II, he just said things change and didn't want to talk about it in any great detail.

My plan is to soon leave Australia, and where I'm planning to move to has an SSPX chapel. I'm thinking about joining, TBH I only went back in hopes of finding a wife but mass is just full of boomers and a few shitskins. I'm really only interested in attending an SSPX chapel in the hopes of finding a wife. I don't mind living the lifestyle but I don't really believe any of it more than being a good framework to live ones life by.
 
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