A transactional view on life - Does having a transactional view on life, God, interactions with other people/loved ones make perfect sense or a world view of a child?

[MirrorNoir]

This came up in conversations tonight with a friend while getting drunk and I want your opinions and thoughts on the subject.

Is it rational to have a transactional (IE I do this and you give me that, and vice versa) view on life, human interaction, and God? Or is such a notion the ultimate example of a manchild, who won't do anything unless there is a reward in there for him/he gets something in return for his actions? Or is such a worldview normal and necessary in order to ensure that you don't get fucked over, treated like a doormat, and actually get what you want in life.

And adding to this, does a transactional view of life also apply to one's relationship with God. IE praying for things or things to happen? And the idea that all religion, when you get down to it, is transactional in that we as a society, are told that God will reward us with goodies, good health, physical rewards if we behave, don't do bad things, and don't harm one's fellow man even if they deserve it?

 

[The Real Me]

It's not unreasonable to expect to be compensated for good actions or to receive something in return but I've found that there are some people who are simply unwilling to perform actions that don't inherently benefit them. The kind of person that will only give a gift if they expect to receive something themselvesves, which in my eyes causes it to cease being a gift. I think this is a mindset that many children do inherently have and some adults simply never matured out of it.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Most activities are transactional, you do something and receive something in exchange for it. That's just physical reality, you need to put in energy to get some kind of energy out no matter what it is. Even if you're self-sufficient on a farm, you're still putting in effort in exchange for food and materials.

And the idea that all religion, when you get down to it, is transactional in that we as a society, are told that God will reward us with goodies, good health, physical rewards if we behave, don't do bad things, and don't harm one's fellow man even if they deserve it?

Maybe in some religions but that's outright heresy in Christianity. The reward you get in this life for truly following Christ is what Christ himself endured, suffering and sacrifice.

 

[Jarl Varg]

Unless you are terminally ill/have something very wrong with you, praying to God for yourself is downright selfish, and wrong. Praying to God for others and a bigger picture is the whole point of praying. As an individual, you must deal with the hand you're dealt. The power of optimistic/positive thought can be very powerful towards one's own needs.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

And adding to this, does a transactional view of life also apply to one's relationship with God. IE praying for things or things to happen? And the idea that all religion, when you get down to it, is transactional in that we as a society, are told that God will reward us with goodies, good health, physical rewards if we behave, don't do bad things, and don't harm one's fellow man even if they deserve it?

Interestingly enough, the (probably) oldest book of the Bible is about this exact topic. Paganism mostly DID work that way. Pagan priests were basically mercenaries. But the followers of Yahweh weren't supposed to be that way. Job asked God how he would dare to let bad things happen to him when he's been nothing but a loyal servant, and God responds with "that's not how it works you little shit". You're supposed to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Prokhor Zakharov]

It makes sense, if you have a personality disorder with substantial narcissistic and borderline elements.

Interestingly enough, the (probably) oldest book of the Bible is about this exact topic. Paganism mostly DID work that way. Pagan priests were basically mercenaries. But the followers of Yahweh weren't supposed to be that way. Job asked God how he would dare to let bad things happen to him when he's been nothing but a loyal servant, and God responds with "that's not how it works you little shit". You're supposed to do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.

It find it boils down to "Doing the right thing (with "right thing" being the most morally appropriate action, in this context) is its own reward"

 

[I'm Retarded?]

And adding to this, does a transactional view of life also apply to one's relationship with God. IE praying for things or things to happen? And the idea that all religion, when you get down to it, is transactional in that we as a society, are told that God will reward us with goodies, good health, physical rewards if we behave, don't do bad things, and don't harm one's fellow man even if they deserve it?

if you're talking about Christianity specifically, Jesus says this in Luke 17:7-10:

“Now which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him after he comes in from the field, ‘Come immediately and recline at the table to eat’? On the contrary, will he not say to him, ‘Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink’? He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? So you too, when you do all the things which were commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’”

meaning, there is no transaction, obeying God doesn't give you God Points to spend in the God Store, you're just doing what you're supposed to. in fact the NT generally and Jesus himself specifically are pretty adamant that being faithful will get you brutally owned in life more often than not, but it's worth it because you get to chill with God forever afterwards. anybody who preaches otherwise is retarded and/or grifting.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Unless you are terminally ill/have something very wrong with you, praying to God for yourself is downright selfish, and wrong. Praying to God for others and a bigger picture is the whole point of praying. As an individual, you must deal with the hand you're dealt. The power of optimistic/positive thought can be very powerful towards one's own needs.

It's completely fine praying for things for yourself as long as the requests are moral, but if you view it as a transactional relationship you're not getting anywhere.

Prayer is first and foremost about conforming yourself to God's will.

Everything we get from God is freely given to us at his discretion and according to his will, there's absolutely nothing a person can do to earn salvation or get "credit" with God that they can use to their benefit. In fact you don't deserve it, but God is doing it anyways because of his unconditional love for mankind.

meaning, there is no transaction, obeying God doesn't give you God Points to spend in the God Store, you're just doing what you're supposed to. in fact the NT generally and Jesus himself specifically are pretty adamant that being faithful will get you brutally owned in life more often than not, but it's worth it because you get to chill with God forever afterwards. anybody who preaches otherwise is retarded and/or grifting.

Excellent example. Don't forget the tower of Siloam, Jesus specifically brought up that disaster because there was (and still is) a common belief that good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people. The Book of Job goes into this extensively as well.

In general Christianity is a radical repudiation of the concept of karma, which itself leads to a lot of problems. Good luck finding people who will feed the hungry or clothe the naked if they believe temporal suffering is just punishment for past sins.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

The thing is I don’t want physical or monetary compensation for my work as much as I want respect, status, and gratitude.

 

[Prokhor Zakharov]

The thing is I don’t want physical or monetary compensation for my work as much as I want respect, status, and gratitude.

Same problem, different currency.

 

[Male Idiot]

I can't comment on religious matters.

But strangers will walk over you like a doormat, also known as a goyim.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

Same problem, different currency.

what problem? why would I just do things for people in exchange for lack of respect or gratitude? is it normal for other people to just let ingrates walk all over them?

All of which must be earned, and from a religious standpoint, sounds very selfish of you.

"And whoever shall not receive you or hear your words, shake off the dust of your feet when you depart from that house, or that city. "

nothing wrong with walking away from where you are not wanted or appreciated.

 

[Jarl Varg]

what problem? why would I just do things for people in exchange for lack of respect or gratitude? is it normal for other people to just let ingrates walk all over them?


"And whoever shall not receive you or hear your words, shake off the dust of your feet when you depart from that house, or that city. "

nothing wrong with walking away from where you are not wanted or appreciated.

Totally misunderstood what you were getting at, my apologies! And yes, even just a simple thank you goes a long ways, and I am not afraid to pay thank you forward.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

Totally misunderstood what you were getting at, my apologies! And yes, even just a simple thank you goes a long ways, and I am not afraid to pay thank you forward.

you're good there's kinda two conversations in this thread anyhow one regarding compensation and one regarding religion.

Its not even that its like I demand people bow at my feet for what I do but I don't think its selfish or "transactional" to expect basic common courtesy in response to whatever it is you are doing/providing.

I'm the kind of guy who does a lot of things for free for friends, neighbor, family, etc some basic appreciation for the effort and respect for the skills go a lot longer for me than a 100 dollar bill in terms of making me feel rewarded for my work.

 

[Str8Bustah]

Unless you are terminally ill/have something very wrong with you, praying to God for yourself is downright selfish, and wrong. Praying to God for others and a bigger picture is the whole point of praying. As an individual, you must deal with the hand you're dealt. The power of optimistic/positive thought can be very powerful towards one's own needs.

Technically, there's nothing wrong with praying to God for your own salvation, but I'd add the caveat that the only things you should be asking for are the Lord's mercy, forgiveness for your sins, the virtue to become the saint that he wishes you to be, and that the Lord might give you just a little bit more capacity to Love him in the way that he Loves you.

To steer things back on topic, God is arguably the only entity in existence which freely gives in a non-transactional manner, which is a lot of why the ideal Christian life is so hard; It actively asks you to freely give away things in the same way that the Lord gives things away. Even the most pious people on the planet struggle to do this, but that's just the result of humanity's fallen nature.

 

[Mitt Doggy Dogg]

I dont know i kinda think in transactional terms to life, it's more a what do I gotta get outta this to make dealing with someone else worth it to me. But I really only see it in terms of transactions with people. Animals are free since I enjoy my dogs company. I don't believe in gods or religions so I cant think in terms of it.

 

[melty]

It's unhealthy to expect reciprocation for everything. However, it's good to at least have an idea of what people/situations you get nothing out of regularly to avoid those. I think that applies somewhat to God and religion. If you are giving and giving in your religious life and not really getting anything out of it, it's worth a hard look. Anybody that argues against that is trying to take advantage imo. It's less of a strict 1:1 for everything and more making sure you are not 10:0 which is just being taking advantage of.

 

[Otterly]

Unless you are terminally ill/have something very wrong with you, praying to God for yourself is downright selfish, and wrong.

I don’t think that’s always true. I often pray for the strength to be a better person and to face what life throws at me and that I do the right thing. That’s a personal request. Expecting Him to reward you with goodies for a good act is not the way to go though, I agree with that

I think this is a matter of degree. You go to work and they pay you. That’s transactional. You do the weekly shop at Tesco’s and you pay them, that’s transactional. I don’t think it hurts to look at the world and understand that a lot of actions and behaviours are transactional, because it’s a way of looking at people’s motivations. Asking cui bono? Is often a good way of getting at the truth. Who benefits, what do they gain? Seeing that other people do things for gain can be one lens to look at things through. It’s probably not healthy to live your whole personal life like that but it’s a good lens to peer at the power structures through for sure

At the same time, acting yourself purely in a transactional manner isn’t great. Some things you should do without expectation of return. You love your children unconditionally for example. To act only in a transactional way will lessen your experience in the world. But to understand that some people do, and to recognise that is a good skill to have.
I saw a bee stuck in a veg net the other day and spent ages freeing it. Why? I don’t know really, it was the right thing to do? Guilt? Knowing bees are in decline? Made me feel good after? Is that transactional? I don’t know.

Christianity is big on charitable love, the idea of doing things for others without expectation of return. I think being purely transactional with the Big Man is a bad idea.

 

[Hyro]

I think this is one of those things where people will disagree because they see "transactional" as "I give you a thing and you give me a thing", but that's really just the most overt version of it. Doing good things for the sake of building positive relations with someone is also still transactional at its core, you're doing things in the hopes of them liking you more, even if you don't expect a physical thing back. Even in a less direct manner, people might do good deeds in the hope of creating a world that is ultimately better and in an attempt to convince others to do the same, which is also transactional

On the flip side, would you really want to do nice things for someone who's going to turn around and stab you in the back? I'd almost go as far as to say that rewarding poor behaviour with positive behaviour is counter productive if your aim is to make a better world, since you're sending the message to that person that they can do horrible things and still come off better, which means they have little reason to ever change their behaviour. It's a big problem with a lot of modern leftist ideology in the sense of how many just want to toss tax money at criminals as almost a bribe to make them stop, under the guise of "helping the needy" but instead really just rewarding their bad behaviour.

So yes I'd say pretty much all good deeds are done with some level of transactional mindset to them, but that that isn't actually a bad thing and is actively necessary if you don't want to effectively reward and encourage poor behaviour. If people do good things for someone, and he responds to that by taking advantage of them or outright stabbing them in the back, I think not only is it understandable, but it's actively the right thing to do to withdraw any positive behaviour or good will from that person as punishment for their behaviour.

 

[JamusActimus]

It's more rewarding to not expect anything in return because it's way more rewarding when you actually get something.