Agnostics slowly edging toward being religious. - There isn't a god, I guess?

Die Oberste Direktive

That may be... but there's EVIL WITHIN, too...
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Jul 4, 2022
I was for too long the "euphoric atheist" (wonder why I had so few friends in high school...) but age brings wisdom, and with that the ability to see that there is no black and white. Except for grooming children. And genders. And races. But anyway, anyone else here on the edge of belief?

I know there were past threads about this but they've been dead for years so I hope it's okay to make a new one.
 
I was raised Catholic and maintained a serious, personal beliefs in God until the new atheism wave, Hitchens Harris Dawkins est. It all seemed inevitable, we only needed to logic away the religious, and all would be well. It helped that most of the 'debates' between atheists and theists was one sided and against generally foolish individuals.

Now as an older person, having lived through several personal tragedies, as well as seeing the secular driven degeneracy in society, which seemed to inherently thumb it's nose at every religious ideal, however valid or sound, I've hoped to return to my youthful beliefs, yet I can't.

Christianity had a very decent set of principles to underpin a functional society, and it's influence has undoubtedly shaped our world for the greater good, yet despite my best efforts, I cannot believe in a God.
 
The only good thing about religion is that it keeps some of the degenerates in check.
The belief in a sky daddy is still dumb.

I became an atheist not because it was trendy but because I started studying religion, read The bible and significant portions of other "holy books", looked into a lot of stuff over many years.
I actually wanted to solidify my belief but found out it's all sophistry, there's nothing there.
I'm not a believer, I'm empirical, I like to look things up to confirm/deny them.
Religion doesn't hold up to that.
 
High IQ people were retards to reject religion and let the low IQ people run wild.

But they were also retards to reject religion and let themselves run wild. For every mistake in old religious doctrines there are three in those without it.
 
I typically don’t share my beliefs with others because it’s really none of their business, but essentially I see something “divine” in nature, for good or ill, that occasionally generates an intangible feeling of “awe” and a deeper respect for the fact that life is short and often brutal.

Now I’m less snooty with people who have beliefs that I think are preposterous or incompatible with my own (in conversations with “normal” people outside of the internet, I mean). What’s the point? If person X says that their faith has helped them cope with tragedy, or brought them closer to a community (again, in the real world, not some degenerate internet thing), then who am I to judge?

However if you’re one of those chad-wannabes who is, like “LOL believe in Jesus or else you’re going to hell, heathen” you’re not deluded you’re just an asshole, and likely would be without your performative “old school” believin’.
 
I think it was Kierkegaard who said the Church does best under pressure and such. In any such case some recommended reading based on my personal biases, take it for what you will. If the works are too difficult ( I do not mean that as an insult but as a shear matter of fact) I would recommend watching some break downs, Sadler is good for that.
  • On Confessions ( I recommend this version )
  • Summa Theologica
  • The works of Anselm of Canterbury
  • The works of Saint Bede
  • The Bible itself (duh)
It should be noted that Paul the Apostle studied Plato/the stocis, which influenced a lot of what he said. St Augstine was heavily influenced by Cicero and he was a key founder in the early days of the church. So I may recommend that as well. tl;dr there is a lot more to western theology (in this specific case Christianity) then good thing good cuz good afterschool speical tier, but because it is in and of itself Right. It Good is Good because God is Goodness incarnate. To seek spiritual self improvement is to try to become closer to God. God is conceptual rather then a being because a being implies finite. It is highly influenced on the classics and contemporary philosophy of that era. To better understand that may better help you understand religion.

Edited: Trying to clarify. This is a very deep topic so its hard to condense shit down to a single digestible post.
 
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The only good thing about religion is that it keeps some of the degenerates in check.
The belief in a sky daddy is still dumb.

I became an atheist not because it was trendy but because I started studying religion, read The bible and significant portions of other "holy books", looked into a lot of stuff over many years.
I actually wanted to solidify my belief but found out it's all sophistry, there's nothing there.
I'm not a believer, I'm empirical, I like to look things up to confirm/deny them.
Religion doesn't hold up to that.
God's existence cannot be proven empirically, much to the chagrin of Aquinas: there's nothing in the world, or in the material that can justify the ways of God to men. Searching for God, you must deny the world and yourself. i.e. Plato's Cave.

No, spirituality is not empirically justifiable, because it's beyond the notion of reason. How could we ever empirically justify God, who is both three and one, which is neither divided or confused in His substance?

Eckhart, Plato, Paul and J.D. Salinger in the last chapter of Nine Stories explained what I've said better. You should read them if you're curious.
 
I typically don’t share my beliefs with others because it’s really none of their business
Not take away from the rest of your post, but I think we all want to spread our worldview, whatever it may be. And that is how it should be. We spread our ideas like we spread our genes: as much as we can and be damned to the consequences.

We are all tired of hearing from someone trying to push the same shit ideas on us, but we all have ideas that we recently acquired and find valuable too. Like with ads, you remember the times they annoy you, but you don't remember the time you learned something valuable.
 
I'm an agnostic deist/panpsychist/panentheist (I know those are considered contradictory things, but the point is I believe there is a god and that it is the source of all consciousness in the world, more specifics don't really matter). I like religion but every religion has some bullshit attached to it that I can't swallow, and they all have way too much human baggage in them to feel real, or at least that's true of the paganisms and Abrahamic religions.
 
Religious belief breaks down into one's tendency towards either nihilism or desire for meaning. Rejection of religion is rejection of meaning. Acceptance of religion is rejection of nihilism.

All the stuff about "proving God exists" is all copes. Yea, of course you can't prove he exists, no fucking shit.

And bear in mind that someone can be extremely religious despite hating and rejecting what we view as traditional religions like Christianity. The cult of wokeshit is a modern day religious movement. Those who adhere zealously to it are people who rejected Christianity and other traditional forms of spirituality, yet still harbored a deep need for meaning in life. They turned to the cult of leftism to provide that meaning.
 
I’m a hard atheist and I knew this since I was in elementary school. I remember in third grade a little girl asked if I believed in god and my immediate answer was no, without thought or hesitation I gave this answer.

I have always wanted the ability to “feel” god so I can be a believer but I have accepted that will never happen. People try to proselytize me when I say this and it’s as weak as always. Sentiments of I’ll feel god if I try to communicate with him and such, as if I wouldn’t have already tried that.

I screamed into the abyss and nothing answered.

I believe in utter chaos, and that does not have to carry a negative connotation. The chaos of the universe is what put us where we’re at and there’s no controlling it. Chaos is not a higher power though, it’s just the odds of something happening or not happening and the ensuing randomness from that.

At this point I find the idea of thinking about where everything came from to be pointless. I’ve said it in another thread before that focusing on the beginning of the universe is a waste of energy that could be spent doing more fulfilling things like creating a family and bettering yourself right now. I probably wasn’t that diplomatic about it when I did though.
 
I have always wanted the ability to “feel” god so I can be a believer but I have accepted that will never happen.
As someone who transitioned away from Hitchen and Harris style of Atheism, back to faith. It really is a feeling, not a choice or a thought. I feel myself as being part of a larger pattern and trying to fit more into a pattern I sense of the universe than thinking about the origins of the universe.

I've always seen that origin talk as a weird statement those of faith make, having the feeling and looking backwards to the beginning as part of a chain of meaning is really different than sitting from a place of godlessness and wondering why the whole bit got started. Its about feeling yourself as having a place within society and aligning yourself morally with society's foundations, just as much as perceiving a God in this whole shebang.

I like having a rulebook with my wife and neighbors, much more often than I think about God himself. Biologically I serve a role in the species in the same manner I morally serve a role in the universe, I guess is the new feeling I didn't have before. I just feel a part of a greater whole, like a good citizen watches the national sport in a sane society.

I don't know if that's helpful or even understandable, sorry if it is not.

I was raised Catholic and maintained a serious, personal beliefs in God until the new atheism wave, Hitchens Harris Dawkins est. It all seemed inevitable, we only needed to logic away the religious, and all would be well. It helped that most of the 'debates' between atheists and theists was one sided and against generally foolish individuals.
I had to think long and hard about what was the essential component that this atheism brought to me which was to allow me to think that by passively participating in it, what afterwards turned out to largely be mid-wit thinking against kind and patient Christians, I was smarter than a lot of the world and all the greatest thinkers that had come before me. I had this new insight, and it changed everything. There was just some kind of self-gratification that I, and a lot of young men, wanted to do. And I wanted to cut every corner of defeating counter-arguments that I could to do it. But worse than that, I was cutting further corners by letting another do the work I should be acting out in order to become a man and rule my life. Atheism, really just draws in the same crowd as Cuckoldry, it is form of passive intellectual gratification akin more to porn and drugs than actual movements or free-thinking. I wasn't smarter than Christians, I was drugging myself with a feeling of false superiority rather than acting in my own life. I left Canada, because it largely embodied that feeling nationally, over it.

We were Atheists because we were on the right side of history, we were progressing society, and we were the smartest people in the room because of it. if we just used our common sense, and followed the dotted lines that were laid out before us by this sort of people, we would be saving the world and putting superstition in its place. In reality, what we were doing was following along this fixed dialectic path on neutronium rails going through the institutional ride of maybe college but certainly then in post-degree professions. All new atheism played for my generation was to convince us that we were smarter than all previous generations of humans, smarter than the traditional modes & traditional moralities that would place constraints on the behavior we wanted to have as 20-something young guys, all of those constraints were stupid and ridiculous and didn't need to be looked into simply because we used our own common sense. Its the role, for my generation, that Vaush and Hassan play for the current Zoomer generation.

Once you hear the modern atheists speak about Wokeism without mentioning once Atheism+ and that whole debacle which unseated them initially years before,
Once you hear Sam Harris speak about Hunter Biden's Laptop being a non-issue because the a priori assumptions of Biden vs Trump electorally are simply already socially agreed upon rather than instead being part of the #1 issue of America tearing itself apart,
And once you notice that a decade later none of the "I do by philosophy what others do for fear of God" people seem to like each other or form much of a community any more,
then you suddenly feel the cringe of it all. Its so much intellectual posturing, they simply were anti-christian whatever Sam's little note at the end of his book about needing to murder Muslims if they ever got the bomb.

New Atheism and the so-bad-that-its-forgotten Atheism+ are so corny now that I'm ashamed that I ever believed these men. They appear evil to me, even though that's probably an over-reaction to my previous trust of them.
 
Atheism+ led to the creation of the IDW, which was a hodgepodge of New Atheists and alt-liters. Turns out, their common enemy of wokeism was used as a thin veneer to sell diet Zionism to the ever-growing list of disaffected and unrepresented who were not served by the political mainstream.
 
What most people don't understand is that we live in a very supernatural world. You can figure this out one of two ways. You can investigate it yourself and discover the truth of the spirit world and the divine or have it revealed to you over time from life experiences. Once you realize that strict scientism is horse shit, you should naturally come back to some kind of religious belief because there is really no other explanation for how that added layer of the world that surrounds us came into existence.

As such, atheists to me then fall into a few different groups. Oblivious or ignorant people are who are not really curious about the world but just go with what current authority tells them is truth, losers with no life experience who think they know it all but don't, people who find that suggestions of there being more to the world frightening and then latch on to atheist nihilism as some kind of weird cope, and fourth is people who just choose atheism as a their replacement-religion for social-political reasons to fill in the gap in their mind left by lack of religious belief. The fact atheists are so obnoxious is a manifestation of some of these personality types.
 
we live in a very supernatural world. You can figure this out one of two ways. You can investigate it yourself and discover the truth of the spirit world and the divine or have it revealed to you over time from life experiences. Once you realize that strict scientism is horse shit, you should naturally come back to some kind of religious belief because there is really no other explanation for how that added layer of the world that surrounds us came into existence.
The biggest danger is getting scared because of this and joining sects and dumb cults
 
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