Amazon's Invincible - thoughts?

[demicolon]

Why don't they just clone themselves?

Lore explanation: Viltrum culture might place value on heritage, family trees, how many prominent Viltrumites of history you're related to and how close etc., they had a king and have a regent, so it fits. Mauler clones suffer from some kind of "cloning blues" where the cloned gets depressed over being one and eventually murders the original, but this can be a product of Maulers having the egos the size of a galaxy and picking some NPC-tier John Viltrum for cloning would avoid this.

Real world issues that I doubt Kirkmann thought about: clones can't breed between themselves because they are monozygotic twins so their progeny would be inbreeded to the extreme. Viltrumites are down to 50 population and about 125 is the population limit below which a species would fail due to inbreeding anyway, so their only option to not die out is to mix with humans. The other problem is that a clone's cells would still have the same biological clock as the original, so their lifespan would be the same... also if you clone grown-up warriors, they'd stagnate due to their brains being not flexible enough to learn new things like a warrior who grew up to adolescence would.

 

[LavenderMenace]

It's hard to say which is better. Comics benefit a lot from the reader being able to control the pace. But when the show really nails something, like it generally has with most things omniman-related, it's pretty great.

One of the things the show did fantastically was the train scene. That scene was like a few panels in the comic but the show really did a good job making that scene because it really showed how much of an unfeeling monster Nolan was.

Debbie being a bitch and another girlboss caricature,

I don't think she was portrayed as a girl boss....The major thing they changed was that they didn't show her abusing alcohol when Nolan left. She was just seen drinking alot of wine. Wished the show included the alcohol to push how much Debbie was trying to get through what Nolan did and the grief.

Mark's gay friend played straight as the most disgusting flaming homo your parents warned you about,

This might be an unpopular opinion but making William gay made him memorable. In the comics all he did was date Eve for a bit and bitched about people calling him other names like Will or Billy. William being boyfriends with Rick helped both characters become memorable and keeping Rick alive added more character to him being turned into an android against his will. Yeah they don't really add to anything but hell I remember them compared to their comic versions.

One of my favorite scenes in the show is Donald talking Rick off the roof from killing himself because Donald also discovered being an android as well. Donald finding out he was an android as well helped his character development since in the comics he just already knew he was an android. Made me like Donald so much more after that scene.

 

[Taxes]

Have some of you been reading the comic? I watched the show first and I've been reading the comics recently.

Do you think the show is better or the comic so far? I ask because to me, the show's writing and changes they made are pretty decent for a comic adaptation. Now will I be saying this after season 4? Not sure but I wanna know how you guys feel about the changes between the comics and the show.

"Better" isn't a really specific measurement. In what way do you mean?

Pacing and plot points? Some of them, yes. Some feel just as rushed in the show as the comic. Others, the comic did it better. The last scene of the final episode of season I was notoriously amazing. It was done better than in the comic, with more weight to the action and really showcased the gravity of the Viltrumite threat! However, the comic did the Viltrumite War better than the show did. It made all the characters useful and kept the tenseness consistent.

Characters? Some yes, some no. I like show Debbie, Rex, Donald, Telia, Monster Girl/Amanda, and Oliver over their comic counterparts. I like comic Mark, Nolan, Cecil, and Tech Jacket over their show counterparts. Comic Nolan, especially, is much more sympathetic in my eyes. Either Allen is fun to me. All the others hardly changed or were/still are unimportant/unnecessary in their own ways.

Art? Comic. It does have awkward and ugly, stiff poses, but it doesn't hold a candle to the absolute GARBAGE produced after Season I. And season I wasn't even particularly special, it was just good animation! Even the complaint about the female characters all looking the same in comic. That can be applied to the show, too. How many background characters have we seen that are just recolored versions of the main cast?

Writing? Depends. This tread has already stated a lot of the obvious criticisms. The unnecessary sex and race swaps to characters, the attempts at being woke only to misd the point entirely, and the bullshit pandering between the LGTV crowd & the brainrotted "sigma/alpha/whatever" losers. Modern writers this, modern writers that, etc etc. My primary issue is with Kuckman. His nihilistic perspective, cuckholdery fetish, and inability to be creative even a DECADE PLUS later. It is impressive that his contributions to his own project make the adaption worse. That "Invincible Goes to Hell" episode slop that was a waste of time = all him. Keeping unneccesary plot points (ex. Eve's abortion, the retarded Viltrumite backstory/revamp of the Purge, the Sequids, etc) = all him. The stupid posting schedule & regular "first four episodes suck of each eight episode season" trend = all him. In fact, I would wager that he was the one who pushed for all the character and race swaps, with the everyone else going along. It's HIS creation after all. He didn't have to make those choices, but he did. Mark isn't even a real character, but just a sad backstory "superhero" oc made by Kuckman to inflict more suffering among the masses.

Tldr: They're just different. Not by a huge margin, but they are. If you enjoy the comic, you likely won't hate the show. If you hate the comic, you likely won't like the show.

 

[GeorgeSmarty]

So Kirkman wants to add more new material and "sidequests" to the show.

Because it worked so well when they did it in the last season.

 

[LightDragonman1]

He's learned nothing from how much that episode was so poorly received, what with its poor animation, pace killing of the show's momentum, and outright beyond r/atheism levels of blasphemy.

Kirkman, maybe those ideas were cut from the comic for a reason.

 

[Gimmick Account]

New original stuff is kinda different from implementing previously-cut stuff. Cause yeah, maybe there was a reason.

On the other hand I feel like the main issues with the episode was in the direction. Dogshit pacing, objectively bad acting choices, a general feel that it wasn't taking itself seriously enough to be worth the audience's time that was probably them fucking up the usual levity, etc.
I'm still glad they did it anyway as a comics reader just to see what the idea for that dropped thread was, but it sucked. Conceptually it was fine. The execution was garbagio.

On the gripping hand though maybe the rest of the show is only better than that because they have the benefit of doing a second draft in adapting already-proven material, and anything new they might ever try is equally fucking doomed.

 

[GeorgeSmarty]

Conceptually it was fine. The execution was garbagio.

Even random redditors had better ideas for the execution than the actual show.

For example a very common theory was that the hell arc would appear as a near death experience while Mark is in his coma after the Conquest rematch and that Mark has to fight him a third time in hell after his deceased soul turned into a full blown demon as punishment for the sins he committed during life.

I can't really say that this would be worse than what we got in the end.

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

The Hell episode was shit not because ‘le demons are actually le good’, but because it tried and failed to superglue two cosmologies together. Our universe, and the comic universe, blended together in a really dumb way.
We are to believe that the way Christianity is practiced, and assumedly at least the basic history, is like that of our world, and also that actually the demons are their own thing and that there’s multiple creation cycles and whatever else they were on about. Ok, so does that mean that the entire institution of Christianity is a misunderstanding? Where does Jesus fit into this new paradigm? Were the Mormons right? Was Immortal actually Jesus? We don’t know, I doubt the writers even thought of these basic questions and so it was shit.
You can absolutely make a story where in-universe religion and religious histories are different than our world, because frankly aliens and supernatural beings and superhumans would probably change quite a lot of things in that world, but it’s a subject where to even be able to tell that story you have to have some ball knowledge or else it’s just a mess.

 

[GeorgeSmarty]

Also it's just a retcon. If you listen to Damian in season 1 it's pretty obvious that hell was supposed to be actual hell, he even threatened Omniman with eternal damnation and wanted to redeem himself.

Now that doesn't makes sense anymore.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Atom Eve is a shitty Doctor Manhattan whose powers are completely arbitrary. She can rearrange shit on a molecular/atomic level and yet in combat she just shoots gay laser beams, which to me is the laziest fucking thing they could've possibly done.

Necroing: comic books always have dumb power scaling but she's a particularly bad case.

She can turn things into gold. The only thing that makes gold and other heavy elements in nature is supernovae and neutron star mergers, because the energies required to fuse neutrons together at scale is literally astronomical. Requires more energy than the Sun will emit during its entire lifespan of billions of years.

Compared to what Atom Eve can do, destroying a planet with kinetic energy is nothing. She literally has God tier power, but spends the show whining and raising weak pink shields instead.

Also, why isn't she rich? Her Dad didn't want free gold, but she and Mark could use the money. So he takes a side job when his girlfriend is capable of creating the most valuable elements in the universe out of nothing. Dumb, lazy writing.

 

[Cryogonal2]

She can turn things into gold. The only thing that makes gold and other heavy elements in nature is supernovae and neutron star mergers, because the energies required to fuse neutrons together at scale is literally astronomical. Requires more energy than the Sun will emit during its entire lifespan of billions of years.
Compared to what Atom Eve can do, destroying a planet with kinetic energy is nothing. She literally has God tier power, but spends the show whining and raising weak pink shields instead

Her power is naturally limited thanks to her dad. She can only unleash her full power when she's gravely injured, and the only thing stopping her from creating Viltrumite-killing technology is her lack of knowledge on how they are manufactured. If she learned how to replicate the scourge virus, she could probably create scourge grenades or solidified scourge weapons on the fly. However, everyone is retarded and she has dedicated herself to learning how to rebuild cities after the Viltrumites destroy them all.

Also, why isn't she rich? Her Dad didn't want free gold, but she and Mark could use the money. So he takes a side job when his girlfriend is capable of creating the most valuable elements in the universe out of nothing.

Imagine the government finds out you've been creating hundreds of thousands of gallons of oil. You do not get to be the Oil Baroness. Instead, you become number one on the government's hit list, regardless of your boyfriend's strength and renown.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Her power is naturally limited thanks to her dad. She can only unleash her full power when she's gravely injured, and the only thing stopping her from creating Viltrumite-killing technology is her lack of knowledge on how they are manufactured

Sure but those are power limitations, what I'm saying is her powers are already God-tier compared to Viltrumites because she can transmute matter

All the particle accelerators in the world running for a million years might be able to create enough stable gold atoms to make an apple. Maybe. The energy costs would be higher than the GDP of planet Earth. It's a show of force orders of magnitude more powerful than Conquest busting out of his underground tomb or Omniman carrying a mountain.

Imagine the government finds out you've been creating hundreds of thousands of gallons of oil. You do not get to be the Oil Baroness. Instead, you become number one on the government's hit list, regardless of your boyfriend's strength and renown.

She's a government employee and they know what she can do. Realistically they'd want her to create as many free strategic materials as they could get her hands on. Osmium and other extremely rare and valuable materials needed for advanced weapons and tech. She could singlehandedly spare the planet all the hard work and pollution involved with mining and refining rare earths.

Making a gold apple was nbd when she was trying to help her Dad, is she meant to be afraid to generate a little bit of cash with her abilities? Yes, because they needed a reason why Oliver would go to help Black Lex Luthor.

 

[Cave Fisher]

Also, why isn't she rich? Her Dad didn't want free gold, but she and Mark could use the money. So he takes a side job when his girlfriend is capable of creating the most valuable elements in the universe out of nothing. Dumb, lazy writing.

If you ever have a girlfriend that can make gold and you both still have a job while having the best powers on the planet, she's not the one for you.

 

[BigBadBastich]

Also, why isn't she rich? Her Dad didn't want free gold, but she and Mark could use the money. So he takes a side job when his girlfriend is capable of creating the most valuable elements in the universe out of nothing. Dumb, lazy writing.

Cause Cecil keeps tabs on the ongoings of earth's strongest superhumans and the global economy and Eve suddenly becoming a millionare overnight is going to raise obvious suspicions especially when shes agreed to so many parameters and mental blocks in certain situations.

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

All of this could have been avoided if Eve was just Pink Lamp or some other Lantern ripoff.

 

[demicolon]

Comic!Eve did build whole Gardens of Eden for poor widdle people in Africa... and it all withered the instant she left it alone. You could explain that the gold Eve makes breaks down into a mush once she stops concentrating on it or, like others pointed out, that Eve is gov. property and would cut that short the moment she'd get the idea.

 

[Gimmick Account]

Cause Cecil keeps tabs on the ongoings of earth's strongest superhumans and the global economy and Eve suddenly becoming a millionare overnight is going to raise obvious suspicions especially when shes agreed to so many parameters and mental blocks in certain situations.

She could do it all above-board and just publicly sell a limited run of platinum atom eve merchandise on her website to set them up for life. There's nothing illegal about superheroes doing that sort of thing as far as we know. Threatening the economy would take the equivalent of far more than she could ever use.

I think it has more to do with the fact that when it comes to herself, she doesn't need money; she can make anything she needs. When it comes to doing shit for other people though (hypothetically including mark and a babby), she's overly cautious about "abusing" her power since she fucked up and killed a bunch of people by "helping". She was willing to make that apple for her family, but that was before she screwed up a bunch of times.
And/or she offered and Mark just said no. They definitely would have had that conversation at least in the comic but I don't care enough to check what was said.

 

[Cryogonal2]

invincible but lucan got a little too caught up in the human roleplay thing and posts hotep memes on facebook all day

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

invincible but lucan got a little too caught up in the human roleplay thing and posts hotep memes on facebook all day

I mean, if you’re an advanced alien visiting some new planet, the idea of Yakub being real history (he is) isn’t too far out there.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]