American Civil War Discussion - Yet another containment thread brought to you by US Politics General

anyone seriously arguing that Virginia or any of the post Ft. Sumter secession states ... is talking out their ass.
Civil war was all about slavery
I assume the first quote (in connection with the second) is to say that Virginia (and friends) has joined the war, for reasons not primarily slavery.
their reasoning for secession is "Injury to the people of Virginia, and the oppression of Southern slaveholding states."
You claim they have two main reasons, one of which is slavery, and the other is concern about what Lincoln would do about slavery.
only around 30% of Virginia was slaves
What number should it be for them not to be a "slave state." 29%? 10%?
Even if one ignores the (Lol) fraud in the vote to leave, if half of the slaves were allowed to vote, the vote to secede would have failed.
and by that time most were just house servants and treated incredibly well compared to deep south planation slaves
I though it was southern slavery (bad), I withdraw all my criticism of your argument after learning that they only used ethical slavery (good).

Both sides wanted best for their fellow statesmen
the Democrats of today legitimately hate America, American Values, and do not see their fellow Americans as their own brothers.
Excluding arbitrary categories of people and claiming it fighting for "good" when benefiting only those you like at the cost of the arbitrary groups of sub-people is retarded.
 
Communists have a extreme fetish for the Union in the Civil War and project themselves EXTREMELY HARD onto the conflict. It has pretty much destroyed discussion on the subject as trying to talk about it in a objective and calm way sees your discussion flooded with faggots who jerk off to the idea of genociding "southern racists" and who think that Sherman should have salted all the land in Georgia.
My observation from online forums dedicated to alternate history, most certainly including the lamentable AH.com, is that this is 1000% the case and even if you don't get banned, any attempt at a reasoned discussion over any ACW related topic will probably get flooded by these far-left cunts and their talking points.

It's oft been said that most of the Northern white soldiers were fighting not to end slavery necessarily (aside from committed abolitionists, like the New Englanders) but to preserve the Union, which I can actually understand as it's basically an (all-)American nationalism. Had the CSA seceded successfully with foreign support (mainly from the UK & France) like the Southern leadership increasingly bet on, the USA would certainly have been significantly weakened as both Manifest Destiny and more generally American ability to project influence across the Americas would've taken a massive hit; you'd see a lot more European-controlled puppet states like the Habsburg empire the French were trying to set up in Mexico popping up and forces like the British Empire could've started up only-recently-resolved battles for contested territories with the rump US like the Oregon Question, and even setting the whole of the slavery issue aside, I don't believe it is unreasonable for an American patriot to want to prevent all of that.

But these assholes don't care about any of that, the modern intersectional left fucking hates America itself, American values and American ideals. They actually hate Sherman, Sheridan, etc. for waging war upon those poor saintly and noble savage Injuns who dindu nuffin out west, burninating Southern chuds only goes so far to mitigate that hatred. They would certainly hate Lincoln and ban him from their Discord servers just for being an American nationalist. Their only interest in the ACW is to fantasize about making Cletus - who they villify as a proto-avatar of straight white male Christian privilege and American oppression of their coalition of the margins - watch as they and their pet niggers burn his homestead down, rape his wife & kids to death in front of him and then flay him alive, because they fervently believe that if they can get rid of him & his spiritual descendants, they'll get one step closer to their luxury gay automated space communist utopia. Meanwhile, Lincoln was actually a proponent of a moderate Reconstruction and reconciling with the South ASAP, so much so that he vetoed the draconian Wade-Davis Bill pushed by the Radical Republicans (the spiritual predecessors of said leftists) and left them sneeding, while Sherman had this to say as part of one of his famous 'war is hell' quotes:
William T. Sherman said:
It is only those who have not heard a shot, nor heard the shrills & groans of the wounded & lacerated (friend or foe) that cry aloud for more blood & more vengeance, more desolation & so help me God as a man & soldier I will not strike a foe who stands unarmed & submissive before me but will say ‘Go sin no more.’
Hard not to imagine that he was thinking of those same Radical Republicans touching themselves to the thought of butchering white Southerners & destroying more of their cities, despite being as far & safe away from the battlefield as could have been imagined, as he penned that quote. And yet even then the Radicals could not have sated modern commie Union cheerleaders, as Thaddeus Stevens - the most radical of the Radicals - was prepared to defend Jeff Davis himself in court if the latter were prosecuted for treason and threatened with the hangman's noose.

These latter-day anti-'secesh' cunts are far more bloodthirsty and vindictive than even the most unforgiving among the generation that actually fought the damn war, regardless of side, and are so very eager to call for genocide despite almost certainly never having been in a violent situation all their lives. They're basically a history-autism-tinged version of those terminally online NAFO fags who jack off to videos of Russians being dronebombed and shriek for the Ukrainians to fight until the very last drop of their blood from the safety & comfort of their basement oceans away from the actual conflict zone and Idk man, I consider such chickenhawkery to pretty much be the pinnacle of faggotry. Also in case it wasn't clear enough from these textwalls I'm throwing up, I still hate them for destroying quite a few of the old online hangouts I liked last decade, like a plague of red locusts/roaches.
 
I don't follow. How'd you get from point A to there? Show your thinking.
Define "good"; or
Reducto ad absurdum: Withholding any person experiencing a negative effect of an action from the group of people relevant to the quality of an action, it is impossible for any action to not be good.
Perhaps you mean "[relative] good [of the state]," but in this case all wars (in particular the modern civil war you are proposing to be different) would be "good vs. good."
 
Communists have a extreme fetish for the Union in the Civil War and project themselves EXTREMELY HARD onto the conflict. It has pretty much destroyed discussion on the subject as trying to talk about it in a objective and calm way sees your discussion flooded with faggots who jerk off to the idea of genociding "southern racists" and who think that Sherman should have salted all the land in Georgia.
The Union did have several actual communist generals. Gustave Paul Cluseret and August Willich. Union armies had plenty of Germans who joined their side because they were immigrants fleeing from the revolutions of 1848 and quite a few of them were commies. Marx/Bakunin along with the first Communist International supported the North, Proudhon and other prominent leftists supported the confederacy and slavery in general. Like the Spanish Civil War, many communist losers have a martyr complex over particular sets of history, and larping it up has a lot to do with their egotistical political identity.
 
The Union did have several actual communist generals. Gustave Paul Cluseret and August Willich. Union armies had plenty of Germans who joined their side because they were immigrants fleeing from the revolutions of 1848 and quite a few of them were commies. Marx/Bakunin along with the first Communist International supported the North, Proudhon and other prominent leftists supported the confederacy and slavery in general. Like the Spanish Civil War, many communist losers have a martyr complex over particular sets of history, and larping it up has a lot to do with their egotistical political identity.
Correct, anarchists too. Some of those same German radicals were in attendance at the first meeting of the Republican Party in Ripon, Wisconsin. The state has always been heavily ethnically German. It is also no coincidence that there were many assassinations and bombings in the period after these failed revolutionaries immigrated to the United States.
 
Confederates were radical left Democrats that got their shit kicked in. Everything was justified. Everything. It's why Lincon is eternally based and why the Democrats hate America; they still seethe about having their blacks taken over 100 years ago. It's why they traffic illegals into the country; to replace the slaves. So yes, I am on the side that the Union didn't go hard enough. The South needed to look like this at the fucking end to protect us from the satanic gay pedophiles:
View attachment 6927779
You're power leveling too high, hunny. You're going to bring out the wrong people.
 
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Another interesting fact pertaining to the communist obsession with appropriating the cause of the Union:

Several thousand American communists organized by Comintern fought against Franco during the Spanish Civil War. What did they take as their name? The Abraham Lincoln Brigade.
 
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As a nearly 40 year old white man this is the kind of stuff I sperg about.

Had the CSA seceded successfully with foreign support (mainly from the UK & France)
People underestimate just how significant British intervention in the Civil War would have been. It's hard to remember today but the North shared a 3,000 mile boarder with Great Britain at the time, Canada then being squarely British territory. You can imagine in 1862 if the North has to go from fighting squarely along the south to a two front war along its southern and northern boarder just how differently things would have been. In such a scenario Britain would probably annex all of the west (never mind Oregon) in a peace deal, that is if they don't just reclaim all of the Northern US.

The technological advances were nice, shame they came at the cost of so much death and destruction.
The technological innovation that came out of this war were huge, and often underestimated. The North had developed repeating rifles (the Henry Repeater, which held an impressive 16 rounds) which they put into limited use among the Calvary, and repeating weapons would be a complete game changers, you went from reloading after every shot (as had been done the last 800 years) to actually being able to cycle to a new shot, of course this had been achieved with the advent of revolvers in the Mexican-American war. It wasn't uncommon (for those who could afford it) to carry two revolvers, usually 1851 Navys, Colt Walkers, or Remington Model 1858s. Both sides experimented with an air force in the form of hot air balloons for recon. Beyond just repeating weapons the North even experimented with machine guns, though these came too late to make an impact. The south successfully launched a submarine attack (though the crew didn't make it back alive). Not to mention the innovations in communications (telegraph for real time updates) and advent of cameras to bring the carnage into American newspapers. You can see how impactful this would be for future wars. A glimpse of things to come.

Now a lot of this new tech happened very late, meaning it didn't get to go into full effect until after 1865, which is great as it meant there was less bloodshed. But can you imagine how many great civil war games there would be if the war happened 10 years later and repeating rifles were commonplace? I noticed this in the movie Django, which is a great movie don't get me wrong, but the truth very few of the weapons you'd need to make a cool action packed movie existed when the film takes place. I know it's just a movie and whatnot but the Civil War nut in me couldn't help but cringe when I saw Dr. Schultz wielding a Sharps Buffalo rifle, a proto sniper of the era, which wasn't invented until the 1870s. But hey a realistic movie set in 1859 with single shot Springfields and Enfields wouldn't be as exciting, so I gave it a pass.
sharps.png
 
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Also because it was mentioned, here is the letter penned by the hand of Karl Marx on behalf of the First International addressed to Abraham Lincoln. Sent towards the end of the Civil War, it congratulates him on winning re-election and for attempting to annihilate slavery in the south through military force.

What was that about Democrats being Godless communists? Seems like the literal Godless communists were big fans of the GOP at the time.
 
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Also because it was mentioned, here is the letter penned by the hand of Karl Marx on behalf of the First International addressed to Abraham Lincoln. Sent towards the end of the Civil War, it congratulates him on winning re-election and for attempting to annihilate slavery in the south through military force.
Not surprising that Karl Marx wants to be associated with the winners in 1865. What he seems to have politely left out is his contempt for the Northern "bourgeois" government.

"Of course, like other people, I see the repulsive side of the form the movement takes among the Yankees; but I find the explanation of it in the nature of “bourgeois” democracy."
-Karl Marx, As for America’ (1862)

Note also that the abolitionist movement in the US arose among devout Republican Christians.

About a half century later, Lenin would spark a brutal civil war in Russia, promising Russian farmers "peace, land and bread," only to later steal their land and bread and massacre them when they resisted being forced into the same sort of serfdom the tsars had liberated them from. The new state-run communes created by the Bolsheviks operated much like plantations had in the antebellum South and would be copied by every subsequent Marxist regime to follow.

How Beijing Forces Uyghurs to Pick Cotton

Such is the value of rhetorical sentiments from the woke vanguard.
 
The North had developed repeating rifles (the Henry Repeater, which held an impressive 16 rounds)
As a follow up, here is a video of Hickock45 firing off a Henry Repeater. Of course they, having been developed in 1860, had a very limited run in the Civil War, manufacturing was a lot simpler back then a lot of the process had to be done by hand. Still being able to fire off 16 shots at once was quite a game changer when your Rebel counterpart was trying to load his single shot Enfield (the joys of the newly developed self contained cartridge), the Confederates had a saying, "A rifle you can load on Sunday and shoot all week long". Though there was a few design flaws, the open bottom meant they got dirty easy and required frequent maintenance, and stuffing in 16 shots took some time, you were unlikely to get a full reload in battle. But it was otherwise a remark weapon for the lucky few Union men who got their hands on one.
 
One of the first uses of armored trains in warfare, which was kinda cool
Reminds the silent film fanatic in me of the 1926 Buster Keaton film, The General, where he plays a Confederate trying to stop a Yankee train, really good stuntwork by Keaton, you might be interested in checking it out if Civil War and Trains are of interest to you.
 
One of the last civil war vets posing with an F-100, 1955. Guys' seen such a huge jump in technology and civilization in his lifetime.

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Reminds the silent film fanatic in me of the 1926 Buster Keaton film, The General, where he plays a Confederate trying to stop a Yankee train, really good stuntwork by Keaton, you might be interested in checking it out if Civil War and Trains are of interest to you.

Thanks, I'll check it out. In general its interesting how a lot of the predecessors of modern military tech say their debut in the civil war. Stuff like gatling guns, iron clads, ketchum grenades, etc, all saw use in this war.
 
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