anyone here into retro computing

They weren't that easy to design with the tech and the budget these companies usually had and also were meant to be cheap computers. I think a 8 Mhz rated 68k (fastest CPU in that list) from your electronics supplier of choice costed about $40 in the late 80s? (I'm aiming high here, honestly, it was probably a lot cheaper - it was a design of the late 70s after all) It was never considered high-end or state of the art at the time. It was usually the chipset around them, the complete package, giving them their capabilities anyways. "Normies" of the time saw the "home computer craze" as a fad and a bubble, only few expected it to last. (emotions were running high similarily to how people are strongly opinionated about AI these days, the fears of being replaced by a computer were quite similar I think) The detractor's argument was "nobody needs a computer for anything at home, they are a useless tech gadget", and they weren't even wrong. It was a small niche industry and technological capabilities and infrastructure to actually create this stuff en masse wasn't really there. It wasn't ran by companies like now for which money is basically a meaningless concept at this point. It was really only in the 90s where there was a wider market for the home user and that market needed standards to be profitable, not exotic niche systems. Many companies still didn't survive that decade anyways.

It's kinda funny how some of these systems from that time are highly looked after machines. Especially the Amigas were often piss-poor put together and mostly meant to be as cheap as possible. (the cheaper Amigas didn't even have a clock or an UART, yes - the serial port on the Amiga is polled and fully CPU bound, I mean what the fuck) The old chipset Amiga would've been a *much* better machine with 2 MB of CPU-exclusive RAM and an 14 Mhz 68k, to give the CPU an extra cycle to "think" over the chipset. We'd stay in 16 bit territory even. Nope. That would've blown the budget. Especially the extra RAM would've been too expensive, as hard as that is to believe now.


That's part of the charm of these machines now is they could basically do anything in hardware terms to cut corners or add features and see what happens. No sober voices of reason, best practices only a cost per unit to meet. Before hipsters took over the thrift stores it was easier to find complete working C64s sometimes even with disks. Amigas whether they were crispy new in the box or thrashed are never in working order. I wish I hoarded a few for repair since some show stopping issues are pretty minor. There weren't entire youtube repair channels like Jan Beta's way back when though.


Holy shit, how have I never heard of this before? The D&D Gold Box "Companion" alone sounds like a weekend rabbit hole to me. Thanks for mentioning this project. I love you long time, sir.


The project has really taken off especially with the new v6. I like v4 because it still came with an old frontend named MEAGRE to use instead of Launchbox. MEAGRE is 'rough' looking freeware and long abandoned by it's author but it works in XP and is a lot more simple and to the point. I got a CRT and a 4:3 LCD on my decaying XP rig so it's worth it to me.

eXo also makes "win3xo" which is 350-400GB of every windows 3.1 game ever made and some edutainment, etc. very forgotten about stuff and some of the wildest shovelware ever made.

There's also "Total DOS Collection" which is an attempt to preserve and archive every single different version of every single DOS game ever in their original disk format where possible. An absolute gold mine for roguelikes and early dos era but people who just wanna play certain games get pretty mad about how they do things and what they are trying to accomplish.
 
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Projects like eXo showcases something like 7000 DOS games, edutainment, and manuals/books/magazines from the era with every dosbox setting you need to emulate each one. More I fool around with, more I just go back to simple 286 games and usual classics + roguelikes. The nostalgia hit is going to be better than playing the game though... but MT-32 soundtracks/music still hits differently than everything else. I purged a lot of my hardware on eBay to stop the intrusive thoughts of needing to build system 'x' because of 'x'.
Hadn't looked into this in years, how's the latest version?

I've been trying to maintain my own personal archive with a home-made menu program but honestly I should prolly ditch it for this.
 
Hadn't looked into this in years, how's the latest version?

I've been trying to maintain my own personal archive with a home-made menu program but honestly I should prolly ditch it for this.


There are changelogs with every version to check out... A lot of stuff is fixed and patched from older versions, more obscurities and there are new fixes with latest DOSbox ECE. A lot more complete and working overall and better scaling/aspect ratio options. The DOS manuals, books, magazines and 200GB of extras in the separate media torrent is also worth it. I still can't stand Launchbox but I have already been lit up by the man himself on Discord for my autism over it it... there is literally no practical alternative.

I usually look through it to find stuff to add to a real physical DOS machine it's way easier this way.
 
complete working C64s
I used to take them home en masse from flea markets, these and Amigas. Would usually haggle them to 5-15 bucks per computer. A lot of my stuff was also trash finds or obsolete hardware I took home from working places nobody wanted. I just sort of collected trash and usually came home with boxes of this stuff. Nobody cared. It was garbage. Germany was Commodore turf and there was a lot of thrown out Commodore junk in the 90s and 00s as a result. I still like and take in electronics junk but that vintage you don't really find anywhere anymore. I ended up with tons of Amigas and C64s as result, not all in working order but SMD caps and batteries removed and damage fixed where I could find it. I also have heaps of Amiga and C64 custom ICs, these I got from a repair store (remember those?) going out of business. Not even sure what I have there. Probably enough to build a few of each.

The OSSC is great for vintage PCs and the Framemeister is good for anything with svideo or composite but I never really got a satisfying image out of an Amiga with either. The Framemeister has problems with color bleeding and accuracy, the OSSC can't deinterlace by the nature of how it works and picture quality is more or less at mercy of the scaling the monitor does. Both look ok for games but with Workbench and a GUI I never really got a sharp picture that wasn't distracting somehow. Since it's literally pointless to make yourself at the prices offered, I ordered an RGB2HDMI for one of my in-working-order Amigas. I'm really curious what that'll look like.
 
So I got the RGB2HDMI gadget. I dug out a Pi Zero I had in some drawer, soldered a header in, copied the RGB2HDMI software to an SD card and then plugged the thing into an A500+. It shouldn't really be surprising considering how it works but the picture quality is perfect. If you'd make me do a blind test on the same screen between FS-UAE and this Pi output, I would not be able to tell which is which. 50/60 Hz works fine too (alright, that depends on the monitor after all) - it even supports the weird "productivity" screenmode of ECS. Ther's no delay in switching screen modes (again, not surprising considering how it works, we did nuke the whole analog stage out of the signal path after all) deinterlacing works perfectly and yeah. It's literally the perfect solution. Between ease of use, quality, price point and availability of parts this will be very, very, very hard to beat. The biggest difficulty I had was finding a mini HDMI adapter in one of my drawers. It also boots the Pi super fast so you can almost see the Amiga boot checkup.

If you feel icky about sticking a Pi into your Amiga, you could easily also get the digital signals out at the video port with some modifications (and dropping some original functionality of the port; you probably don't need e.g. feeding an external clock in for genlock and 100 mA supply of +5V/+12V/-12V) but honestly Pis are so cheap, you can probably sacrifice a dedicated one and it doesn't really make the system less "original" in how it works.

It was such an expensive mess for decades to connect an Amiga to a modern (whatever modern at the time was, really) screen, we're truly in the world of tomorrow now. This will defintively make me use the Amiga regularily again.
 
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So I got the RGB2HDMI gadget. I dug out a Pi Zero I had in some drawer, soldered a header in, copied the RGB2HDMI software to an SD card and then plugged the thing into an A500+. It shouldn't really be surprising considering how it works but the picture quality is perfect.

If you feel icky about sticking a Pi into your Amiga, you could easily also get the digital signals out at the video port with some modifications (and dropping some original functionality of the port; you probably don't need e.g. feeding an external clock in for genlock and 100 mA supply of +5V/+12V/-12V) but honestly Pis are so cheap, you can probably sacrifice a dedicated one and it doesn't really make the system less "original" in how it works.
With the whole "pUrItY" thing, imo the RGB2HDMI sits in the same bucket as the Gotek. It doesn't alter the main system's performance. It upgrades supporting components (i.e. video output and data storage) into something that's more convenient for current year use. Remember that the Gotek is a floppy emulator, and it runs at around the same speed as an original floppy drive.

As far as coprocessors or accelerators go, that's where things get murky. There's plenty of handwringing out there about whether a PiStorm complements or ruins an Amiga, but on the other hand the PiTubeDirect for the BBC Micro is a logical successor to the old "cheese wedge" second processors that Acorn used to make for the Beeb... one of which being the very first ARM processor.
 
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Disclaimer: Autism ahead.

Thing with drives is, they are (and almost always have been) little systems by themselves. This is especially obvious with the Commodore 1541, the original C64 floppy drive. It has the same CPU as the C64. Floppy drives, hard disks - they are external units the computer interfaces with, even when they happen to live in the same case. That's why I don't really feel it takes anything away to replace them with modern and more convenient solutions if they aren't particularily interesting by themselves. Sure, some of the modern microcontrollers could easily run circles around the main CPU of the system they interface with in raw processing power, but they have such a specific role and are often so fundamentally different in architecture that I don't think that it matters. I also have an HxC and flashfloppy-flashed Goteks and use them as well, don't miss the old drives. ( btw. for people like me that didn't know, they're basically almost the same thing now. You can even put the HxC firmware on Goteks although you don't really need to anymore as they are equivalent. The excellent Amiga disk selector tool for HxC also works with flashfloppy-flashed goteks now which makes them very nice to use)

Then, almost all these old graphics chips output a digital signal originally, which then gets converted somewhere else to an analog signal, which made sense then.That conversion often was not state of the art, even for the time. Analog video is hard, getting it right even harder. We just grab the signal at a more convinient spot with the Pi and bypass that hot mess. Doesn't really change anything about the system and the Pi isn't part of it, as little as an OSSC or modern monitor becomes part of a PC you hook it up to. Somehow I feel if it wasn't a cheap Pi but some fancy FPGA thing for three hundred bucks, people would feel better about it. Is the Vampire still used/developed?

In my highly autistic opinion, as long as the core computer is original or at least has expansions that fall in line roughly with what was available at the time performance-wise and also don't get there via layers of emulation and abstraction, it's authentic enough. The Pistorm crosses that line for me quite clearly, for obvious reasons. But people are so desperate to get long and pointless benchmark bars ouf their Amigas, so I guess it's fine if they enjoy it. So in conclusion, if you follow my branch of retro beliefs, the PiStorm is haram, while e.g. an accelerator with a modern FPGA for glue logic, somewhat modern memory and e.g. MC68SEC000 is halal, even though its technically a much more modern processor from the later 90s. Also everything that just interfaces with the system without replacing integral parts of the core chipset is fine. Of course this is completely based on feels and not on facts, as every good belief should be.

BBC Micro
Wish I had one of those, but these weren't really a thing in Germany. Only way would be to import one from the UK for ebay prices and I don't trust my chances there. Closest I come to the brit market is a Schneider CPC 464, which is basically just a rebranded Amstrad machine. The only thing that was really localized in a different country I own (althought not really) is an east german Kleincomputer KC 85/3 made by the eastern bloc VEB Robotron, the U880 in that system is basically a reverse-engineered, east germany manufactured Z80. Why the OS of that thing and even the labeling on the case is in english considering nobody there spoke english will always be a puzzle to me. Oh well, at least I can always build a Speccy.
 
Because Amiga was for gay retards and PC was for cool sex-havers.
How much did an Amiga 1000 cost compared to an IBM PC-compatible in 1985 when it was released? How capable multimedia wise was an average Amiga to an average IBM PC-compatible in that era?

Amiga was briefly popular because it was a multimedia powerhouse for an affordable price in a time when PC-compatibles were still just office machines with barely any multimedia capabilities. A ton of creative artworks came out of the Amiga. It had better graphics and a phenomenal audio chip for it's time, something that PC-compatibles caught up with only years later.

And yes, by the point when PC-compatibles caught up with the Amiga, Commodore was struggling, went under, Windows 95 released, the ATX standard was established, 3dfx released the Voodoo accelerator, Creative established itself as the audio standard, and the PC-compatibles became the powerhouse it is known as today.

By that point people who were still on the Amiga were seething that their machine that used to be the king has now became an obsolete relict of a bygone era. It's probably why Amiga vs. PC were fighting words. It's not that Amiga was bad and IBM PC was good, it was the other way around in the beginning, but then it became the opposite. By the end of the day it was all fanboyism that still happens today with video game consoles, and we all know how stupid that is.

You also had Commodore vs. Atari, before the widespread adoption of PC-compatibles, especially with Atari vs Amiga wars in Poland, the Iron Curtain version of Nintendo vs Sega wars. But that's a whole another story.

Ahoy did fantastic short documentaries on the Amiga. I don't think I need to introduce him.
 
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Coming from the Amiga to the PC the software and general user experience felt like a step back in many ways and for me it took many, many years and a switch to Linux not to feel like that anymore. Using an Amiga in 2024, its interesting how "approachable" it still is. Software also feels very intutive. My Linux experience is better by now, but its still a very usable system, inside it's limits of course.

Even though often used as games console with a floppy drive, the Amiga always was kind of a Hacker's computer, back when that term meant something else. The 8 bitters before it were very hackable too but the Amiga was in that sweet spot where it actually could, you know, do interesting things while still not being so complex that it ceased being fun. Things were very changeable and while proprietary, Commodore didn't even attempt to keep much of any of the inner workings secret. My Amiga came with a big book of schematics and technical documentation by Commodore how to design expansion cards and do some programming taking advantage of it's custom hardware. Lots of books on that topic early on. It's funny seeing hardware designs and "novel ideas" sold now that are obviously rooted in text files that were already floating around in the late '80s on various BBSes and disks.

Apropos Amiga and RGB2HDMI: It would be a pretty interesting project to reimplement Grafitti or HAM-E on the Pi, It'd be slow though, at least on the original chipset.
 
The IBM-compatible PC has had quite the run.
The legal loopholes used to clone the BIOS are quite fascinating, and are probably the reason why even poor homes in the 2000s had at least 1 computer. Phoenix were the reverse-engineering lawful rebels with a cause. Phoenix is culture. Phoenix is life. Phoenix is why I call myself a hacker.

The incompatibles came and went.

The VIC-20 came and went.

The Tandy 2000 came and went after falling off the bandwagon.

The C64 came and went with 1/10 of what you needed.

The Amiga came and went, like mis amigas.

The Atari ST came and went.

The NEXTCube came and went.

The Fairlight CMI came and went.

The BBCMicro came and went.

The Acorn came and went.

All are beautiful machines, but after the compatibles gained traction, pretty much every non-compatible besides the Mac came and went. The above machines, unlike the IBM PC, were more likely to be used in living rooms, recording studios, rich autistic kids' bedrooms, etc., or anywhere other than an office.

But now, the IBM PC had grown up. It wasn't just a business machine. It was a friend.

And it soon beat its only real rival, not by defeat, but by assimilation.

Intel Macs are the uppity compatibles that make you install Windows yourself. But at least they run Windows without an emulator.

But will the compatible last much longer?

Will ARM beat it out? Or RISC-V with its open licensing?

If Apple was the first to eliminate the floppy disk, the DVD burner, the mechanical hard drive, the "legacy" ports, or 32-bit anything...

Will Apple's move to ARM (which it won't tell you it uses unless you scour its website, instead opting to call it "Apple Silicon") be the beginning of the end for X86?

Is my incompatible Mac desktop the sign of a gradual return to the glory days of the eighties? A Mac that's neither an IBM PC nor an IBM PowerPC, which Apple ironically calls a "personal computer" several times on the website despite convincing the public that PCs only run Windows?

What is a PC?

Is this computer truly personal? Or is it still Apple's?

Is "IBM-Compatible" even meaningful now that a lot of the original BIOS requirements are ignored by newer compatibles?

Who knows?

I like Arduino. And want an Amiga clone one day.
 
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Although as a counterpoint, if you actually want to transfer files onto an old computer from elsewhere (such as finding drivers on Soviet-era FTP sites), you're probably not going to want to fool around with floppies like you would have back then.
For moving files around between different types of systems there is KERMIT. It runs on everything ever made, can be boot strapped by typing in a BASIC or ML program on most systems, and works over any type of line that can send text. It's also still actively developed https://www.kermitproject.org/


If someone wanted to combine computer and telephone autism in to one network they could get an old Panasonic 308 or 824 key system pbx and use modems to connect all their stuff together. I have a raspi acting as a KERMIT and terminal server hooked to a USB modem connected to my PBX system. All the vintage stuff I own has modems and can dial in and get files or telnet/ssh from the pi to stuff out on the internet. It must simpler then trying to get TCP/IP working directly on vintage computers.
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If I was in to old Mac's I would put pppd on the raspi and then the mac could dial in and get a tcp/ip connection that way. No fancy networking card needed.
 
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Man, y'all are making me feel bad about not getting the BBC Micro(US edition) working. As expected the power supply smoked so I got a moden version but I still need to make all the wires as I wanted the original supply usable if someone wants to repair it so I'm not stealing the wires.

We won't talk about the Model 1, Model 3, Osborne or other stuff I inherited. Way too many projects, too little time.
 
After playing around with ESP32Forth I fell down a forthhole again and since i want to do a bigger order to my local electronics supplier, I thought about doing graphical text output for my Z180 forth machine. I looked at the method the Harlequin/Spectrum uses to generate graphics but I wanted something fancier, so I checked out several "time appropiate" graphics ICs, even some PC EGA ones, and then I got got interested in the EF9345P I found in one of my boxes, because it has digital RGB output (many ways to do something with the signal to get a nice and clean picture vs. a composite only output like e.g. the TMS9918) does not need a lot of external parts, (especially no exotic/custom ones) and can do 80 columns and 25 lines with 6 x 10 characters, which is nice. (I find the usual 40 columns from hardware of that time hard to use) There's also a later variant of this chip that is quite advanced for an 8 bit graphics chip dealie (12 bit color palette, 1024 × 512 interlaced max. resolution) but I've never heard of it (and with these stats you're ought to) so my guess is that it sucked in some way. The datasheet isn't super straightfoward but the EF9345P is character ("semigraphics" which basically means you can paint stuff with line characters, blocks etc. you know the deal) only, which honestly is perfect for my usage scenario. Kinda like MDA, just with colors basically. The other possiblity would've been to use a Pi Pico as primitive HDMI graphics card, but it feels kinda ridiculous considering that the Pico is vastly more powerful than the Z180. I also don't know where I got that IC from, sure hope it isn't broken.

Forth is great for dynamically writing drivers for components. My system is currently hooked up to a floppy drive where it writes all it's data to because it was very easy to write a driver for it and it kinda grew organically from there, but I actually want to use SD cards and the Z180 has some features that should make the usage of those practical, so that'll probably the next thing to implement.

apropos Pico: you can run CP/M on one, which means WordStar on a Pico is possible. The times we live in.
 
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