Are 2D platformers dead as a concept?

[Xarpho's Return]

One of the ideas I've been tossing around is a 2D platformer game. I've got the basic concept and theme down, with two swappable protagonists, the stronger but somewhat slower male protagonist, and the far cuter but weaker female protagonist.

The problem besides not knowing how to program and not being an artist to really bring the cute female to life is a more fundamental question that would need to be addressed: are 2D platformers a good game concept? Most of the current zeitgeist after Mario and others wore out the concept is "impossible spikes everywhere" or some other "subversive" gimmick.

Even now, the only platformers people really look back on with any fondness and replay again are Mario and Sonic as a distant second, and I can't see a full non-ironic platformer being sold as a marketable product. Am I just insane, blind to a whole genre, or is there no market for traditional 2D platformers without gimmicks and/or being ball-bustingly difficult?

 

[X Prime]

People like the idea of 2D platformers, but the problem is they have been done to such death that they mostly live and die based on characters.

Azure Striker Gunvolt is an excellent example of this. Even though it was made by IntiCreates, it's niche. Why? Simple: because they made their own IP instead of leeching off of a previously existing character's (in this case, Zero from Mega Man X's) popularity.

You either have to have some unique gameplay style (easier said than done) or characters that attract the gooners with well-executed art at this point. I do not want to be that cynical but I am calling it like I see it.

 

[LifeAlert]

no market for traditional 2D platformers without gimmicks and/or being ball-bustingly difficult?

Sadly this is indeed the case, the last system where 2D platformers could be made without being indie nostalgiabait slop was the DS. You would have to make something with a unique mechanic and design your game and its levels based around learning the mechanic, trying it in different ways, and having your skills challenged

You either have to have some unique gameplay style (easier said than done) or characters that attract the gooners with well-executed art at this point. I do not want to be that cynical but I am calling it like I see it.

The continued popularity of the Shantae series sadly proves this is the case. Just make it anime themed and it will sell.

 

[X Prime]

The continued popularity of the Shantae series sadly proves this is the case. Just make it anime themed and it will sell.

Pretty much. Nobody wants to admit it but it is intensely obvious at this point why it has a solid chunk of its fanbase, and it's not because it has particularly good Metroidvania gameplay.

It's one of those franchises where the characters were ambiguous enough that it attracted the lolicon gooners. This led to the designer saying on Limited Run's Discord in 2021 (https://archive.ph/Rvde8) that Shantae was totally an adult the whole time. This of course is despite this in 2009 Nintendo Power from the same exact guy:



And this in 2015 (https://ghostarchive.org/archive/HIA6x):



Meaning he later started basically lying because of how it looks. Which makes some comments in the archived reddit thread hilarious. So yeah. Your options are to attract the gooners or have amazing gameplay. Good luck.

 

[Cat tit bingo]

I think just straight platformers are pretty rare outside of legacy franchises like mario and sonic but it survives in subgenres like metroid-vanias and 2d action games. While I think the last truly major plain 2d platformers is probably shovel knight games like hollow knight, cuphead and pizza tower with its warioland gameplay are extremely popular. Plus even if mainly carried by there long legacies mario had wonder and the maker series while sonic had the beloved mania and superstars and they all seem very popular
Though its definitely less prevalent 2d platformer is such a basic concept it's always going to be around, honestly it felt more dead in the 360s day when the genre was only really carried by the rayman games, the "new" super mario series and all the nostalgia bait classic reboot that felt like shit to play.

Pretty much. Nobody wants to admit it but it is intensely obvious at this point why it has a solid chunk of its fanbase, and it's not because it has particularly good Metroidvania gameplay.

I'd say the first three shantae games are extremly solid but it's animation and style is it's bread and butter. Still the best games which felt slightly more cartoony than anime sold like shit where as the newer games that are just plain anime, complete with trigger made anime intro, and are a lot worse are the more popular ones.

 

[Billow Riley]

A new game in a dead genre can easily sell well because people will buy it out of nostalgia even if you don't play into nostalgia bait, but it doesn't matter in your case because it's your first game. If you're lucky, you'll sell around 50 copies at most. Quit worrying about sales and just make what you want to make.

 

[Cats]

I don't really play video games that much these days but I am personally very happy with what we already have available to us, so i honestly couldn't care less if no good platformers ever come out again. There is a huge library of what I would consider "near-perfect" platformers out there already across many systems and generations. Even after all this time I'll still sit down sometimes and play Sonic 2/3/Knuckles/CD, even a newer release called Sonic Mania (it hits all the right beats for me after growing up playing Sonic and I am glad it exists), along with even obscure things like Magician Lord on Neo Geo, my all-time favorite platformer Rondo of Blood on PCengine-CD and a couple of the other good Castlevanias on various systems always get revisits from me. Mega Man 1-9, the Mega Man X games, all titles that I could basically just play forever.

I have tried a couple newer platformers made in the modern era and none of them really did much of anything for me, and none of these newer games usually do. Even this one that I was super psyched about a few years ago called Blasphemous, I followed a little bit the development and teaser videos/screenshots and it just didn't pull me in like I thought it would. It's a neat enough game, but yeah. I feel no passion or happiness about it. I think maybe I just had to be a kid to enjoy games, and so now that I am grown up, I can only really enjoy the ones that were already "locked in". if that makes sense.

 

[Blindeye]

It's not that they're dead, they'll always be fun and have their place, but there are just SO many that you have to find some way to seriously stand out to give most people a compelling reason to look at yours when there are so many already that they can be sure are good. You could occupy the rest of your life playing 2D platformers made as someone's first indie game project while learning to make games. There's nothing wrong with this, just go into it understanding that you're probably not making the next Mario, nobody is going to play this except your friends you ask to try it for you, and as long as you learn things from it that's ok; worry about marketability after you know how to make something people want. Plus, who knows, you might actually catch lightning in a bottle and blow up with it, it doesn't hurt to try.

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

I thought this was a resurrected thread from like 2016. Nah there is plenty of indie slop to let you know people like platformers. You have Pizza Tower and to a lesser extent stuff like Metroidvanias and Roguelites built around 2d platforming.
Genres don't go out of style. They just go out of the limelight. People still make text based adventures despite those only being in vouge circa 1979.
As for advice. Try Game Maker 2. It's basically designed to let you crap out 2d side scrollers and top down games.

 

[Oliver Onions]

Am I just insane, blind to a whole genre, or is there no market for traditional 2D platformers without gimmicks and/or being ball-bustingly difficult?

By traditional do you mean pure platforming? As in you have nothing but a jump and maybe basic attack to get through levels? If so I think you'd have an uphill struggle to stand out in that area without some sort of USP. It doesn't have to be anything major though, just something you can point to in a trailer and say this is what makes my game worth trying.

I don't think it has to be extremely difficult either, it just has to feel good to play. For example, Astro Bot is 99% cake walk with some optional challenging levels and that game is great because it feels so tight to control (even if there's a bit too much six-axis bullshit for my liking). Conversely, Sackboy: A Big Adventure fucking sucks because the movement feels so sticky and the flutter jump never lasts as long as you feel like it should.

My advice if you want to take this forward would be to look at your favourite games in the genre and focus on what you like about them in particular then adopt those elements into your own design. You don't even need to evolve the concepts: just make sure they work properly and feel good to execute.

The continued popularity of the Shantae series sadly proves this is the case. Just make it anime themed and it will sell.

I wish they'd stuck to sprites instead of the more Flash-like modern art style, but those games are a lot of fun so I dunno how much the coomer dollar is actually propping the series up.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

are 2D platformers a good game concept?

SMB3 is one of the best games ever made, Mario Wonder did well recently, those are decades apart. It's safe to say yes.

I can't see a full non-ironic platformer being sold as a marketable product.

Even aside from Mario/Sonic, why not? If a new Castlevania released and was actually good, I guarantee it'd do well.

Now if we omit any and all pre-existing franchises (not just Mario /Sonic) I'd say it'd be harder but not impossible by any means. Indies release some pretty good stuff sometimes like Shovel Knight, which is an homage of sorts but isn't ironic.

It just comes down to the genre being in a weird spot where it's not the most popular but people still want there to be a real budget behind it. Since it is unattractive to most big companies (iirc Mega Man 11, latest one, sold the best in the mainline series but Capcom still hasn't bothered with a sequel because it's not worth their time apparently) that leaves generic pixel shit indie copycats to flood the market and fatigue gamers.

If you can make a good, unique 2D platformer people will buy it. Also, in my opinion, despite saying there's a lot of copycat stuff, there's never been a truly good Mario-style platformer, at least not that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Iron Jaguar]

Do the 2.5D games like Metroid Dread and the latest Prince of Persia count? - Because they were fantastic.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

gooners

I miss before Current Year when "cooming" and "gooning" were not big things yet. There was "R34" before, but there was not freakish Clown World "cooming" and "gooning" yet.

 

[X Prime]

I miss before Current Year when "cooming" and "gooning" were not big things yet. There was "R34" before, but there was not freakish Clown World "cooming" and "gooning" yet.

What I think you mean is that you miss when people had shame and weren't so obvious about it. Plausible deniability.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

What I think you mean is [...]

There is something different about Current Year "gooners" these days.

Anyway and back on topic, a lot of 3D vidya have camera stuck in a position which makes the vidya like a 2D vidya, which is kinda annoying to me. Why even have vidya in 3D?

 

[Pierre D'Olnique]

The problem with 2D platformers is that every single new release wants to be speedtrooner bait, almost trying to be a fucking esport with sickass mlg combos, permanent dashing, double-triple-walljumps, multipliers, parrying, like holy shit FUCK OFF. What happened to just having score pickups and extra points based on time/enemies defeated and going through the level at your own pace? Lately I've been replaying the best Duke game (Manhattan Project) and realized how much it mogs those modern "masterpieces" despite being 20+ years old. Enemies that aren't just "obstacle which hurts on contact", deal variable damage and require different approaches, you have multiple guns, exploration is highly encouraged and not timegated in any way. The only nitpick I can think of is bosses, which boil down to "can you mow it down with the AR/RPG/Pulse Cannon before double damage from the ego high wears off".

 

[Just A Butt]

None of this other shit matters if you don’t have good level design.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I miss before Current Year when "cooming" and "gooning" were not big things yet. There was "R34" before, but there was not freakish Clown World "cooming" and "gooning" yet.

If waifubait characters are what you mean then that's lazy on the developer's part, but there's worse.

Do the 2.5D games like Metroid Dread and the latest Prince of Persia count? - Because they were fantastic.

A lot of the appeal of a platformer is its character imo. Mario, Mega Man, and Castlevania have cool characters. I can't even imagine playing Nigger of Persia regardless of its technical qualities.

I remember when Braid was popular, one look at the character dispelled any interest (I still tried it out of curiosity and think it's massively overrated). Meat Boy was much the same. For some reason Spelunky, despite being kind of offputting looking too, was passable to me (it sure helped that it's one of the best platformers of its kind).

The problem with 2D platformers is that every single new release wants to be speedtrooner bait, almost trying to be a fucking esport with sickass mlg combos, permanent dashing, double-triple-walljumps, multipliers, parrying, like holy shit FUCK OFF.

ADHD platformers are a curse unto the genre. Same with autistic precision platformers where you're expected to die a trillion times to get one series of pixel perfect jumps done in one flawless run. No. Just no. Celeste comes to mind as such slop (I hated it before I knew the girl was a tranny too, so it's not bias).

None of this other shit matters if you don’t have good level design.

Yeah, Mario Maker proves that.

 

[YautjaWeeb]

Only reason platformers have elaborate back stories now is because every meaningful gameplay mechanic that can be done has been tried over the last 40 years. The ridiculous need for backstory/plot shit to distinguish them from each other has left them prone to DEI and ESG.

Only thing laying untapped is the olympic level autism of speed running them and there's always somehow more somewhere in the tank somehow. More entertainment value in spectating than playing.

 

[BiggestKai]

Simple: because they made their own IP instead of leeching off of a previously existing character's

I think it's because Gunvolt is the kind of game that literally takes 3 or so playthroughs to actually "begin" and the entire appeal of the game is score chasing.