Aren't all environmentalists ecofascists?

[DerKryptid]

If corporatism is simply the state of existing in harmony with the collective whole, and if environmentalists preach peaceful co-existence with nature, then aren't all environmentalists ecofascists?

 

[DumbDude42]

meme name made up by larpers who read ted kaczynskis manifesto and thought "wow based"

 

[Evo]

Retarded term made up by a couple of turbonerd larpers (like the post above me mentioned) and on the other end, just people misusing the term 'fascism' as a political bat without actually understanding the ideological definition behind it and hurling it at neoliberal attempts to enforce climate change policies.

Fascism as an actual doctrine is already pretty eco-friendly (promoting things like green city development and awareness of the ecological impact of over-industrialization and urban development) but there is no such fucking thing as 'ecofascism' outside of the spergsphere.

 

[Just A Butt]

i kind of like the image of legions of troops who will put you against the wall if you're not recycling properly
it's funny to me. someone draw it and i will laugh at it for free

 

[Just Another Apocalypse]

Spitfire List | Ecofascism: Lessons from the German Experience

Web site and blog of anti-fascist researcher and radio personality Dave Emory.

spitfirelist.com

Dave Emory has done a load on this topic.

 

[Evo]

Spitfire List | Ecofascism: Lessons from the German Experience

Web site and blog of anti-fascist researcher and radio personality Dave Emory.

spitfirelist.com

Dave Emory has done a load on this topic.

All this really does is dive into the actual ecological branch of fascism as a doctrine - I wouldn't really call that 'ecofascism' as the term is used today, I'd just call that 'fascism' considering ecological activism is a core part of the sociological parts of fascism as a theory.

Ecofascism as the term is used today refers to a select few Unabomber fetishists who like to call themselves that or brand themselves with the term because they think it sounds cool - they have no conceptualization of fascism as a doctrine or theory and simply use the term because they're retarded OR it refers to the usage of the term by a few retards on the right who call any attempt neoliberal governments make at enforcing climate change policies fascist.

 

[Just Another Apocalypse]

that was just a link to one show. In the site there are a lot more. Some of it covers the Nazi bird who became a Hindu (and pushed the idea Hitler was the reincarnation of, I think, Shiva).

I used to listen to this stuff years ago, Emory is a commie, but his stuff is worth a listen. Even if it's for laughs, like with Ed Opperman.

 

[Evo]

that was just a link to one show. In the site there are a lot more. Some of it covers the Nazi bird who became a Hindu (and pushed the idea Hitler was the reincarnation of, I think, Shiva).

I used to listen to this stuff years ago, Emory is a commie, but his stuff is worth a listen. Even if it's for laughs, like with Ed Opperman.

That would be things like the Savitri Devi/esoteric sphere (a lot of that was motivated by Julius Evola, so much so to the point it's considered 'Evolian'.) and yeah that shit is wild, wild and wacky; I've listened to Emory before although I never found him too enlightening. Funny, tho.

 

[Just Another Apocalypse]

I've listened to Emory before although I never found him too enlightening.

Most of it is Dems good Reps bad. But his stuff on ecofascism is a pretty good one stop shop for the ins and outs, and the Devi stuff etc, shows this has been about for decades, long before Ms Tunaburger was even born. And explain s Hitler Tea Bags.

I imagine Dave isn't talking about this shit anymore because it is HIS SIDE doing it.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

I'm an environmentalist and the answer is "yes, but no".

Green politics requires a strong government no matter how much anarchists on Twitter try to convince themselves otherwise because companies aren't just going to adopt green policies. If by "fascism" you mean "a strong government", then yes, all environmentalists are fascists. (on the other hand if you think "fascism" and "any form of governmental power" are the same you're probably a lolbert, but I digress.) If by "fascism" you mean "traditionalist policies and a corporatist economic structure", then some environmentalists, including me, support that. On the other hand lots of environmentalists (the Green New Dealers are one example that comes to mind) don't.

 

[Evo]

Most of it is Dems good Reps bad. But his stuff on ecofascism is a pretty good one stop shop for the ins and outs, and the Devi stuff etc, shows this has been about for decades, long before Ms Tunaburger was even born. And explain s Hitler Tea Bags.

I imagine Dave isn't talking about this shit anymore because it is HIS SIDE doing it.

Plenty of pinkos just don't like admitting they're pinkos when it comes down to it - fascism good, commies bad; that's my take.

I'm an environmentalist and the answer is "yes, but no".

Green politics requires a strong government no matter how much anarchists on Twitter try to convince themselves otherwise because companies aren't just going to adopt green policies. If by "fascism" you mean "a strong government", then yes, all environmentalists are fascists. (on the other hand if you think "fascism" and "any form of governmental power" are the same you're probably a lolbert, but I digress.) If by "fascism" you mean "traditionalist policies and a corporatist economic structure", then some environmentalists, including me, support that. On the other hand lots of environmentalists (the Green New Dealers are one example that comes to mind) don't.

I mean it all works considering the "fascism" you refer to in the latter i.e. actual ideological fascism as a doctrine lays a lot of support to environmentalism - the green city planning by folks like Speer aside, other folks like Gentile and D'Annunzio gave a lot of ideological support to early environmentalist causes - the use of 'fascism' as a bogeyman term is hilariously cathartic to the growth of sympathy.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

green city planning by folks like Speer

I'm not sure turning Berlin into a concrete jungle or building monuments so large that they would have had their own weather system are exactly environmentalist ideas.

 

[Evo]

I'm not sure turning Berlin into a concrete jungle or building monuments so large that they would have had their own weather system are exactly environmentalist ideas.

I don't mean the fatass imperium design of Berlin or the dome-weather planning, I'm talking general city/town reform although this wasn't just Speer - even fatasses in the Luftwaffe like Goering supported things like adding more greenery to cities, creating national parks for preservation, etc. obviously these things aren't radical but they are transformative in a very visual and noticeable way, aside from the preservation of national parks and the like which is extremely important.

You're very right that the fat-fuck brutalist designs in Berlin weren't environmentalist at all, but it could be said that Berlin was already over-industrialized at the time (along with a disturbing amount of German metropolitan areas.) but that's a subject for an entirely different thread I'd imagine.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

creating national parks for preservation

Didn't Goering create national parks so he could have more places to hunt?

 

[Evo]

Didn't Goering create national parks so he could have more places to hunt?

In cases of occupied territories, yeah, although this was also common back in Germany itself with some of the land that was established and marked for preservation in Bavaria - other places like Thuringia saw genuinely-preserved national parks (along with Burgundy, when it comes to occupied territory, although this was due to Himmler's fixation on Burgundy as a result of its' Germanic origin.) although one has to mention that although Goering enjoyed hunting he had a lot of fucking conditions on it himself due to his shtick on animal cruelty and animal abuse (this doesn't discount the fact he was a fat bastard who consumed plenty of meat, but yeah.)

Sometimes it came down to how esoteric and religious the man ordering the preservation of the given area was - if the area was in Thuringia, Burgundy, or Saxony, generally it was preserved and actually protected for sincerely environmental reasons: if it was in Bavaria or further west, you could be certain it was a few rich party-members that wanted a private hunt.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

Himmler's fixation on Burgundy as a result of its' Germanic origin

Ah jeez, I forgot that Himmler would have protected anything that would support his "WE WUZ VIKANGS 'N SHIEEET" larp.

Saxony

I'm pretty sure one of the national parks in Saxony was set up as a "memorial" to the pagans Charlemagne killed at Verden, so Himmler protecting stuff in Saxony would explain a lot.

 

[Evo]

Ah jeez, I forgot that Himmler would have protected anything that would support his "WE WUZ VIKANGS 'N SHIEEET" larp.

I'm pretty sure one of the national parks in Saxony was set up as a "memorial" to the pagans Charlemagne killed at Verden, so Himmler protecting stuff in Saxony would explain a lot.

Yeah, Himmler was fucking madly bonkers about preserving any locale that had an ethnically Germanic origin dating back to either actual viking times or pre-viking proto-eras and Burgundy was a popular location for that kind of shit and it only came into German possession after the annexation of northern France.

Saxony/Thuringia both were popular for the Pagan aspects and there are still Odalist communities there situated around some of the areas they aimed to preserve, ironically - I pretty much share the faith although most of my family is Christian so I give respect to the Church but I'm not going to derail the topic for that autism.

Should be said this also happened in Italy and, to a lesser extent, Romania - Mussolini authorized the protection of a few areas in the mountains to the north closer to Venice and a few areas to the south in Naples. Romania is an entirely different story whereas the government attempted to preserve elements of Romanian Transylvania as a national park while they still had the influence of the Iron Guard pressing on policy - once they'd done away with Codreanu completely, they did away with any attempt to preserve anything so it can be said this was an explicitly fascist effort.

tl;dr environmentalism is apart of fascism and fascism cannot be fascism without environmentalism.

 

[All Cops Are Based]

Environmentalists are just ecofascists without any of the good parts of ecofascism

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

Yeah, Himmler was fucking madly bonkers about preserving any locale that had an ethnically Germanic origin dating back to either actual viking times or pre-viking proto-eras and Burgundy was a popular location for that kind of shit and it only came into German possession after the annexation of northern France.

Really doesn't surprise me. I know he wanted to set up an SS state in Burgundy but it's hard to research that thanks to the troons that gave us TNO.

Saxony/Thuringia both were popular for the Pagan aspects and there are still Odalist communities there situated around some of the areas they aimed to preserve, ironically - I pretty much share the faith although most of my family is Christian so I give respect to the Church but I'm not going to derail the topic for that autism.

I'm a tradcath so I probably come from a completely different perspective when it comes to paganism but you're right - Saxony was one of the last pagan areas in mainland Europe until Charlemagne conquered it in the late 8th century, and there were plenty of pagan sites in Saxony which I could see Himmler and his fellow larpers trying to use in their rituals.

Romania is an entirely different story whereas the government attempted to preserve elements of Romanian Translyvania as a national park while they still had the influence of the Iron Guard pressing on policy - once they'd done away with Codreanu completely, they did away with any attempt to preserve anything so it can be said this was an explicitly fascist effort.

Yeah, the Iron Guard was very much a movement led by Romanian peasants so it's easy to understand why they'd want to protect the environment, especially compared to Romania's Francophile elite or the industry-obsessed Communists.

 

[Evo]

Really doesn't surprise me. I know he wanted to set up an SS state in Burgundy but it's hard to research that thanks to the troons that gave us TNO.

TNO is fucking retarded, lmao - I don't even really like HoI4 all that much but fuck that mod is wildly retarded with that clusterfuck of a UI.

I'm a tradcath so I probably come from a completely different perspective when it comes to paganism but you're right - Saxony was one of the last pagan areas in mainland Europe until Charlemagne conquered it in the late 8th century, and there were plenty of pagan sites in Saxony which I could see Himmler and his fellow larpers trying to use in their rituals.

No issue, friendo, I've got strong opinions on maintaining friendly relations there due to moral mutualisms but I understand all strong opinions to the contrary based on any scripture - the NSDAP along with the Italians were religiously diverse, so I celebrate diversity.

Yeah, the Iron Guard was very much a movement led by Romanian peasants so it's easy to understand why they'd want to protect the environment, especially compared to Romania's Francophile elite or the industry-obsessed Communists.

Romanian Transylvania was really, really fucking important to the IG and they were determined to turn the entire region into more and more greenery, I think.


anyway this topic has been officially derailed. op has their answers.